Burgard products

[ESR250R]

i am wondering what everyones opinion is about burgards products. i was considering there +2 a arms, 89 length swingarm, and there steering stem on my 250r. can i see some of there products on your quads.

thanks

[Pappy]

here is a pic of a burgard 400ex swing arm on a z400:p

[ESR250R]

looks nice how much was it?

[Pappy]

im not certain to be truthful. i will find his # and you can call him if ya like. i will post it as soon as i locate it:p

my gncc friend runs all burgard parts and loves them.

[ESR250R]

hmmm... i just did a search on burgard a arms and everyone said they basically suck. does anyone have any complaints about there steering stem?

[Pappy]

and who is everyone? im sure you wont find many that have actually used them....in fact ...with the paint off them i doubt very many could figure a burgard from any other.

get what ya like ofcourse....but dont listen to everything you hear;)


next time i have a few sets stripped down....i will post a pic and see who the experts are:p

[trx400ex]

i had a couple sets, sent you a PM about them

[DantheEXman]

:D I cant say enough good things about them

[bmw500hp]

Full chrome,,,very nice!!

[Team Outlaw #34]

yeah....i think people are just racist toward burgard a-arms lol....:p

[mysticfalcon]

Ive got a bugard '89 swingarm and it seems like a realy nice peice

[Dave400ex]

I think that Swingarm looks awesome. They have parts on Ebay for cheap all the time. Kenny you will have to let us know how his parts hold up over the Season.

[Pappy]

i will gladly do that.

i have already inspected parts that were on a 400ex (arms...stem...and swing arm...bearing carrier) that were on the quad for 2 seasons i believe. so far no problems that werent caused by a crash.

i run houser folks....i dont get paid to endorse anyone. if you ask my opinion....i will give you an honest answer. i personally dont like the appearence of the burgard stem....JMO. but it does fit and it works well. and if i raced and there was a chance it would get bent etc......yeah id run it.....the cost factor has to come in there somewhere. these guys in gncc can chew up a few parts:p

the swing arm seems well built. dont put a name on a swing arm or i will refer you to LSR before dan found out there was a problem. (good job btw fixing the problems)

a arms....i will say that the arms surprised me. ....and i will do a side by side comparison of a few brands and point out what I like and dont like.

again....these are only my observations. i am by far not an expert. but i have been around quads and offroad products since 1983 and feel i have a little expierence:p i listen as much as i talk and god knows i ask enough questions. and i also value other opinions from those that i feel can give me an unbiased opinion and also share a working knowledge of a vast number of products. what pisses me off is some kid who trashes a company for a product that was misused....beaten to death ....installed wrong....etc. its hard to tell sometimes who is worth listening to and who is trying to blow smoke up your rear.

i like a bunch of companies products....not just a few;)

[ZRacer]

Amen!

[Dave400ex]

I agree 100% with Kenny. Enough said.

[Tommy 17]

don't listen to pappy he is over dosed on viagra... what does he know anyways:rolleyes: :eek: :eek:

haha j.k papster i agree with u...:D

after reading the thread form yzroostinya ..
& from other news/threads...& the general
opinions from experienced quad builders ..
my opinion is the same ..
I would not buy Burgards ..even if they
have a desire to fix/make things right ..
after a sale , when it the part has problems
there is still something called INCONVENIENCE.

[Pappy]

inconvience is an associated risk with any aftermarket part. one part can be screwed up from one of any 10 manufactures. i refer you to the new LSR swingarm problem posted last night.



opinions are like *******s....everybodys got one.

this is my personal & unbiased opinion...
I don't know bout anyone else ..but
I choose reduce my risks & inconveniences..

when purchasing aftermarket parts ....

this is what makes sharing of opinions GOOD..
but when people have certain ties & are wheeling w/manufacturers for there own gain ...
this is not unbiased or GOOD

[Pappy]

your opinion is noted......


at one point you refered me to burgard for my suspension components. in fact you didnt have a bad word to say about him. i have meet mr. burgard. he seems like a fair and decent business man. i have also agreed to purchase a frame from him....at retail pricing. this was after trying to get a solid price on an arens and or a houser frame. so before you spout off with your OPINIONS....get your facts straight.

now on to motives. i get most of my parts at the same pricing everyone else here does. i recieve no special prices...in fact i would refuse them. my opinions on products are based on many factors first of which is wether i would use the product or not. i refuse to spout off about a product inwhich i have no knowledge.

my reputation on this site and in my personal life is based on being as truthful and honest as i can be.

this thread asked for information and i gave it. and i will happily debate you on any subject that you feel necassary. im more then capable of handling myself and in detail describing why i feel the way i do.

[Pappy]

2R's you know i dont play the pm game. would you like to make a bigger *** of yourself here where the group can see it?

ok...
I have my opinions & thats what I have stated..
not here to have another arguement w/you ..
Hope you get it ..Kenny

BTW,I never recomended Burgards to you ...
cause I would never buy the stuff my self,,
but ,I do rememeber telling you about Ken's
problem w/there A-arms tho..

[Pappy]

:o

games & threats seem to be the way you operate at times ..
in am not & will never be the least bit concerned with "THE GROUP"..
as you seem to be ........OUT!

[Pappy]

hahaha....damn yer nutty:o

[Dave400ex]

I thought you 2 were friends? :confused:

[Rastus]

Call Jimmy, and bring the 12 gauge,lol.

[ESR250R]

...

[Pappy]

yeah that about sums it up:o cool kid...yours?

[Kadafiy]

Ok so whats the deal with burgards? What problems did they have with their a-arms? Iam looking into those and houser, but the burgard seem to be about $100 cheaper. Is that because of a lack of quality by burgard? I dont want to start a war just want some feedback from people who know or run the product. Thanks

[bmw500hp]

Pappy,,, need a quote from you, and discuss burgard frame. pm if you talk business today!

[Bean]

the reason Buraguard or whatever it is, cant sell his a-arms for as much as houser's is because he is a new company, that is why, not as many people know him, and all this rumor crap doesnt help him either, so that is why he cant sell them as expensive

[trx400ex]

Actually hes been around for a while

[Live2Ride300]

So what problems have people had with Burgard products?

[ESR250R]

when i did the search alot of people were complaining about breaking the ball joints. they said that the a arms were great but the ball joints were just too weak to hold up to any extensive abuse. dont flame me for saying this i am just repeating what i read.

[Pappy]

esr...i just did the same search.....there is some good info on burgard arms there without the bs. when people start questioning ball joints ....id like to know what offset rims thet are running also. from what ive seen the majority of ball joint failures are from people hitting decent jumps with the wide offset rims. i ran that set up myself and was told repeatedly to get a different offset.

once again....by what you want. after all it is your money...get a set up that will make you happy:)

one thing i did notice....LSR a arms seem to be deffinatly made of a different metal. anyone know the differences?

[MX26]

I always thought LSR's arms were 4130? Are they not? Maybe they got some titanium parts mixed up ;)

I'm usually the kind of guy that doesnt like to take chances when my wallet is open. I bought a case saver(small I know, but every product should be treated equally) from Burgard, and had **** getting it to my door. I called repeatedly and talked with the owner, and he assured me that the part would be here. It never got here. Yes, the guy does seem very nice and helpful, but being nice and helpful didn't get my case saver here.

So from now on.. I think there's a country song out there that describes it best.. "Shame on you if you fool me once, Shame on me if you fool me twice." Be selective where you spend your money. Have you looked at Hermann chassis parts?

[Pappy]

i dunno what they made these lsr's out of. the just feel different. good quality i assure you. i have a set of housers and hsd here also and was just looking at the differences. the LSR feels heavier....maybe i will weigh them:p it could be the support tho.

but i notice the metal itself seemed to have a different "feel" to it.






btw.....im no metalurgist;) dont claim to be. so i filed your pm 2r's in the who gives a chit file....with the rest of them:)

[AtvMxRider]

Originally posted by Pappy





btw.....im no metalurgist;) dont claim to be. so i filed your pm 2r's in the who gives a chit file....with the rest of them:)

:eek: :blah LMAO!

[Mxbubs]

Steering stem, a-arms.....Burgard, been there, broke that.....No more Burgard for this boy.:D

[Pappy]

bubs...i just ran a search to see what all was broke...and i didnt find any except a ball joint you broke in a whoops section in 3rd gear? was that a burgards or another manufacture? just curious. i see you seem to know a lil about this stuff:p

heres a set of burgards...:( heres a pic of ones previuosly mentioned) .....you rememebr Ken rt....? "papster" ???
When Ken raced w/these he was always tellin me
how bad his shoulders hurt ...soon as he got new
ones (cause burgards refused to help him in any way) .. ..elsewhere..Lonestars I beleive ..
He told me he had no more pain
..& they handled 5 times better ..

[Pappy]

2R's i refuse to argue this with you. so far you have offered opinion and speculation. your friends front end could have been set up improperly and that also could have led to him being over worked by the quad.

there are variables that cant be defined from quad to quad and rider to rider. you could ride my quad and not think it "feels" right and i the same with yours.

this issue has gotton off track and i feel its turned into a personal thing. i have stated before.....i do not have the burgard arms on my quad. and yes if i needed a set i would buy from them. i just find it ludicrous that an intelligent person tries to make an unjustified statement about a product. this issue could be about leagers next week....who knows.

the point is.....if you can point to actual defects in a product then thats one thing....but to make a general statement that any products is just junk without factual proof is asinine. you have personal issues with me and against this manufacture. i find it amusing that you dont realize if someone wants burgard they will buy it...same as they would houser etc. i took a stand on this because im tired of seeing manufactures trashed. even when they do come to the site to defend themselves its not good business.

i believe my stance has been misconstrued as i am pushing burgard. this is false. i chose to take a stand here for the reasons mentioned above. now if you would like this to end...it ends. if not.....im not going anywhere:o

[stocktires]

dave, your posts in this thread are useless and everyone see's what's going on here...

BUT, I HAVE had a few problems with burgard. I was sent a stem that didn't hit the steering stops on the frame and didn't come with a bar clamp, nor bottom locking nut.
Izzy Happily sent me a new stem with the wrong sized clamps, and still didn't hit the steering stopper on the frame.
I've tried contacting him again (which is hard :( ) and I've goten no response...
This is enough, The first time was OK and I understand that everyone makes mistakes, but twice is unreasonable!
His welds and PC are BEAUTIFUL!!!! But he lacks service and some of his designs are poor, while others are very good.

[YZROOSTINYA]

my stem didn't hit the stop fully and the stop also came into effect late while turning which allowed the wheels to hit the a-arms and would also lock the stem at full turn


he is fixing the problem and i should hopefully have it today


good pc and welds, just bad initial design. i would imagine that he has acorrected the probs and there shoudn't be a issue.

i have a +1 +1 set up for pro tapers

[griffsfsr]

I have been running Burgard A-arms for 2 seasons now. I have had no problems with the a-arms. I did break one ball joint last year, and upon buying a new one from GT Thunder, I Found out that they where the same ball joints as LSR. So in general I have no complaints with my burgard a-arms.

Chris #23

[Pappy]

seems like the problem with his stem lies in the bearing area. i would expect the manufacture to make things right for both of you and if there is a running flaw with his design it needs to be changed.


stocktires.....i would also be upset at recieving 2 products that didnt work. at that point i too would probly want a different stem. i dont have burgards ear so i cant tell you what or if anything is happening to get your situation corrected. i will however speak with him this week and i will address these issues.

[mesz1]

I now carry Burgard's, I think they are as good if not better than anything out their, Just because they are not the most expensive doesen't mean that they are not a good product!:macho

[Sparks425Ex]

Will a z400 swing arm fit on a 400ex

[Mxbubs]

Originally posted by Pappy
bubs...i just ran a search to see what all was broke...and i didnt find any except a ball joint you broke in a whoops section in 3rd gear? was that a burgards or another manufacture? just curious. i see you seem to know a lil about this stuff:p

Damn. I know I have a pic, will post it later. I also bent my top right a-arm, broke a joint, and bent another one in that same crash.

I think most all the +2 4130 a-arms are pretty much the same. Some are thicker walled, some are thicker diameter.

[Pappy]

no prob bubs....nothin i like better then seeing broken parts...lol...they say that means you are riding at your limit:p

[Mxbubs]

Originally posted by Pappy
no prob bubs....nothin i like better then seeing broken parts...lol...they say that means you are riding at your limit:p

Or riding over your limit.....Crashes are just reality checks.

"Hello guy, I am the ground, see you are not as good as you thought you were"

<<<reality check>>>

[Pappy]

sort of like the fear of fallin....it aint the fall...its the landing that sucks:p

[Red Rooster]

I need Burgaurds telephone # so that I can talk to him about an unrelated subject. Thanks, Nate.

[660bigdaddy]

here is a pic of my bent burgard stem. izzy said he would replace.

[Dave400ex]

How did you bend the stem like that?

[660bigdaddy]

ice racing, clipped a guy that spun in front of me.

[Dave400ex]

Yeah it looked like you hit something in front of you. That's good he's replacing it when it's not the parts fault that it bent.

[DantheEXman]

I have Burguard +1 a arms and no complaints at all.. I love em.

[YZROOSTINYA]

i got off the phone with izzy yesterday and my stem should be hear this week, they changed the stop design so i will post pics of the new and old design

[660bigdaddy]

i told izz exactly what happened and he said no problem. must be first one he replaces.. seems like a good guy.

[stocktires]

roostin, can you post of PM me your name? Izzy is supposed to call me tomorrow about the stem And I'd like to tell him I want the same stem as yours, except with the longer than stock tie-rod mount.
lmk, Thanx!

[bluebaron]

i got burgard a -arms for 400$ new

[Mxbubs]

The old 400ex. Look at the top a-arms. See the difference, one of them are bent. I forget which side.

[Pappy]

did ya get hurt in that wreck bubs?

[stocktires]

does that top bent arm effect your quad any bubs?
I just noticed that one of my top arms are now bent from something :confused:
but it looks like it wont bother anything

[Mxbubs]

No, you just have to re-adjust the tilt of your tires/rims to compensate.

I got hurt bad. Whoops. My rear end didnt make it over a whoop, it clipped the top of a whoop, slammed the front end down (which bent the arm and broke a balljoint)..........I gassed it hard, got the front end back up and it dumped me off on my back. Knocked my breath out, and hurt my back. My back has scar tissue in the mucsle that gets tight when my back muscles heat up and expand. That has been about 2 years ago. It still bothers me.

[d-14 rider 27]

i ran burgard +2 a-arms for half a season, i broke a ball joint which caused a nasty cartwheel on a downhill double and resulted in a broken hip for me, but the ball joint was my own human error. all the a-arms out there which use volkswagon tie rod ends are relatively the same heck even comparing the burgards to laegers isnt apples and oranges, laegers got a few gussets thats all. (for the old ones anyway) but everyone, when you run a-arms with tie rod ends for ball joints make sure you move the arms up and down with the tires turned and make sure theres no binding. thats what breaks a ball joint. mine was mechanical error, and rider error when mine came undone. i didnt check things over and after the crash, when i held the pices together, i could tell the binding was the problem, so everyone out there with jd, burgard, lsr, herrmann std., houser std., arens, or anything with the threaded ball joint, make sure you keep them traveling nice and straight, loctite the he11 outta them, and keep em tight. so other than my error, i seen no probs with burgard, mine lasted longer than another persons lsr race arms (he long traveled them) its all what your budget and availibility allows. just remember, everything is junk, i dont care what anyone says, its all junk, it will all eventually break everyones products.