More Laeger Pro-Trax Questions

[thedeatons]

Three questions:

My swingarm, how can I tell which length it is? Can I measure from the swingarm pivot bolt's center to the center of the rear axle? What is the stock '89 length? That should be what these chassis are based on as stock, correct? I believe the '86 length swingarm is considered a -1 when talking about a Laeger swingarm.

My Pro-Trax front end, it is attached to a narrow Laeger frame, and I am told the a-arms are +3. How can I tell whether they are also +1 forward?

My swingarm part II, There are two holes on the right side of the swingarm, just in front of the rear brake rotor. One is on the side of the swingarm, one is on the bottom. I spoke with Scott Taylor at Laeger, and he can't tell me anything about a rear brake rotor guard for it, nor does he think he stocks one... Does anyone have pictures of one of these?

Thanks guys!! James

[Honda 250r 001]

86 swingers are longer than 88-89 swingers. 88-89 are aluminum and 86 are steel, take a magnet to find out what one u have.

[thedeatons]

I think you misunderstood... I have a Laeger swingarm.... Please re-read the questions... :):)

[05LSR250R]

Your first question is a little confusing!
86/87 swingers are +1 longer than 88/89.
I would think Laeger would call it the same way.
Post pics or just measure for us!
Center of sw.arm pivot to center of rear round housing.

[matt250r21]

Your Laeger swingarm should be 18.25 center pivot bolt to center carrier. If it is stock 88-89 TRX250R length. 86-87 are one inch longer then 88-89 TRX250R.

Swingarm rotor guard. I think a company called Pro Tec still makes these.

Post a top view of your top a arm, I can tell you if it is +1 forward or not. With a narrow frame you really should have +4s.

[thedeatons]

Pro Tec in Murrieta, CA has never made anything for a Laeger frame, according to the gentleman I just spoke with on the phone.

Hopefully Scott Taylor at Laeger will come through, I just emailed the picture to him.

Thanks for that, the picture was exactly what I was looking for!!

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Regarding the a-arms, I will have to post a picture of them for you. As far as I know they are +3.... Would a width measurement tell you, or from a-arm mounts to t-pin mounts?

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The swingarm measured 18" and change, nearing 18.5". I will go with 18.25" like you mentioned. So that makes it a standard Laeger swingarm, as in standard '88-'89 style.


Keep the great answers coming! I am learning a lot!

[312R1]

Originally posted by thedeatons
Pro Tec in Murrieta, CA has never made anything for a Laeger frame, according to the gentleman I just spoke with on the phone.

Hopefully Scott Taylor at Laeger will come through, I just emailed the picture to him.

Thanks for that, the picture was exactly what I was looking for!!

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Regarding the a-arms, I will have to post a picture of them for you. As far as I know they are +3.... Would a width measurement tell you, or from a-arm mounts to t-pin mounts?

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The swingarm measured 18" and change, nearing 18.5". I will go with 18.25" like you mentioned. So that makes it a standard Laeger swingarm, as in standard '88-'89 style.


Keep the great answers coming! I am learning a lot!


Jame here is the website for Pro-Tect

http://www.protectfabrications.com/

Measure your arms from the mounting point to the t-pin and I'll check to see what mine are, this will tell you because I know mine are +4's

The pic that Matt posted is exactly what I was talking about.

-Steve

[thedeatons]

Called and left a message with Dan... Hopefully he will call back with a lead.

Will have an a-arm measurement in about 5 minutes... K?

[312R1]

Originally posted by thedeatons
Called and left a message with Dan... Hopefully he will call back with a lead.

Will have an a-arm measurement in about 5 minutes... K?

ok
I found it..Here is the link, it's the second pic.
http://www.protectfabrications.com/Accessories.htm

[thedeatons]

That looks really nice..... $130!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[312R1]

Originally posted by thedeatons
That looks really nice..... $130!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!


LOL...Gotta pay to play.:p

[thedeatons]

Okay... a-arm widths:

These measurements are from the center of the frame mounting points (basically from the center of the frame mounting bolts) to the very outer edge of each arm....

Upper 11.75"

Lower 17.375"

[312R1]

Originally posted by thedeatons
Okay... a-arm widths:

These measurements are from the center of the frame mounting points (basically from the center of the frame mounting bolts) to the very outer edge of each arm....

Upper 11.75"

Lower 17.375"


Yep, yours are +3's

[thedeatons]

Great! Thanks!

Now I just need to find out about the skidplate....

[05LSR250R]

What about the +1 forward question?

[thedeatons]

Good point! I forgot about that one... Good call!

I will have to get pics tomorrow, then post them up...

[05LSR250R]

Hey Deats. Dont know if this will help you out but heres some pics of a +3 +0 pro trax front end.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Parts-Accessories_ATV-Parts-Accessories__Honda-250R-Pro-Trax-A-Arms-Arms-Stem-Front-End-TRX250R_W0QQitemZ350176627153QQddnZPartsQ20Q26Q20A ccessoriesQQadiZ2869QQddiZ2811QQadnZATVQ20PartsQ20 Q26Q20AccessoriesQQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_ATV_Par ts_Accessories?hash=item350176627153&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=72%3A1171%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A131 8

[thedeatons]

Here are some pics from my camera phone.... Perhaps we can get to the bottom of which a-arms I have.... 0 -or- +1 forward?

Thanks, James

[thedeatons]

Another One...

[thedeatons]

Another one.....

[thedeatons]

Last One....

[steve250r]

Those are +0 forward.

[thedeatons]

Thank you. That is the second time I have heard that so far, so I guess I will believe it!!! :)

So far I understand the reason behind +1 a-arms is more high speed stability, more rear weight bias.

With +0 a-arms and a +0 swingarm my quad should be super quick in the turns, and there may be a bit of instability at speed in the dunes... You guys agree?

I will be sure to give a full impression after I have ridden it. :)

[matt250r21]

Those are +0 forwards.

[thedeatons]

LOLOL....


3rd confirmation....


I don't think I need anymore! :):):)

[thedeatons]

Here is a fun question... So in may case Laeger went with the '88-'89 swingarm length, which is considered a +0. Does that mean the main frame is longer to make up for the lost 1" of the '86-'87s, or did they change the a-arms or something....

For instance: The service manual says 86-87 were 71.9", and after 87 were 72.4". The 86-87 swingarms were 1" longer than the later models, so does that mean the main frame was shorter?

The wheelbase also changed between models, the 86-87 was 51", and after 87 was 49.8"....

Can anyone explain how all the dimensional relationships varied? I assume the Laeger frame/swingarm completely mimmicks the 1989 version.... correct?

Thanks!

[deathman53]

the pro-trak turns very quick, there is some instablilty at high speeds. I noticed that right away, but the nimbless of the handling was far better. As for the last guy. The frames stayed the same(for the most part), the difference is that a-arms on 88/89 are already +1 forward and the shorter swingarm makes for less wheelbase(better traction at less stabiltiy) and better weight to the ground, here the +1 forward a-arms add to this. I don't know why the total bike in 88/89 is longer, maybe because of the +1 forwrd a-arms?? Please correct me if I am wrong about this. The way to make a 86/87 feel and handle like a 88/89 is +1 a-arms and a shorter swingarm. The thing that many don't like about the 88/89 is the footpeg placement, -1 back and -1 lower is popular for pro-peg nerf bars. 88/89 frames had something different about the front clip of the frame, I think it has something to do with the angle of it.

The Laeger and most aftermarket frames are loosely based on 88/89 frames, there are geometry differences in the front end between all, most use the 86/87 footpeg location. This is true , except stock replacement frames. Laeger made stock replacement frames, the lonestar frames are basically stock replacement and there is also aerens, those are nearly a carbon copy of the stock frame. The walsh, roll, and laeger narrow front end are a very modified version of the stock frame and have little in common with stock frames. Stock parts won't fit those to a good degree.

[thedeatons]

So the service manual says the weight bias is as follows:

86-87
Front 233lb
Rear 288lb

After 87
Front 222
Rear 293

Is the increased rearward weight distribution after 1987 due to the shorter swingarm?

I wonder if the instability at speed will make me want a steering dampener even more.... I am VERY used to having Ohlins dampeners on my quads.....

[deathman53]

I was used to having a steering stabilzer too. I put my pro-trax on and didn't put the stabilizer back(it was hanging up). I didn't really notice much difference at speed. I did put one on, eventually. I keep it on the lowest setting, just to take the hits from bumps that would reflect the steering. If you have even ridden a pro-trax, its as good as a walsh and roll front end. I have a roll lobo front end, lonestar dc-4 and pro-trax. Its really close between the pro-trax and roll. The Roll is better for mx and is more stabile at speed. The pro-trax is the king of turning at any speed.

[laeger2fiddyr]

lets see some pics of the whole bike!!!!!:)

[thedeatons]

All in good time...

I hope to have it finished this weekend, just waiting for a few details, then I will take pictures.

[matt250r21]

Stock 88-89 TRX250Rs never came with +1 forward a-arms from the factory. Only real difference between 86-87 and 88-89 is the 88-89's had 1 inch shorter swingers.

[thedeatons]

Ahh.... that is why the wheelbase figures are 1" shorter on the later models.

I was thinking they changed the mainframe to offset the swingarm difference... Interesting... so the later models should turn really quick comparitively.

[05LSR250R]

Shorter wheelbase will always turn quicker.

[thedeatons]

We just measured the wheelbase of our Cannondales, and the 250R... They are all within .5" of each other, even the Dales with +1 forward Moto a-arms... We attributed this to the eccentric chain tensioners all being set a bit different.

[thedeatons]

So.... since everyone is being so helpful, perhaps you guys can help me with my axle/sprocket carrier/brake hub?

By the time this is done I will know everything about this quad!! I think this is the last unknown section.

By the way I found out there are simply hex set screws in the swingarm where the brake rotor guard mounts up, and they are not frozen up! I am installing stainless socket head screws instead.....

Pic 1

[thedeatons]

Pic 2

[thedeatons]

Pic 3

[thedeatons]

Pic 4

[thedeatons]

Pic 5

[thedeatons]

The axle is a silver color, probably simply zinc plated with clear chromate, but the spacers look chrome. This had me thinking RPM, who I believe does it this way...

Thoughts?

[bushwesl]

From the looks of the sprocket hub, it's an LSR.

[thedeatons]

Okay..... So, the few things I am wondering are:

Maker of axle
Maker of sprocket hub (probably same as axle but ya never know)
Maker of brake rotor hub
Maker of Anti-Fade Nut

Thanks for the help!

[312R1]

Originally posted by thedeatons
Okay..... So, the few things I am wondering are:

Maker of axle
Maker of sprocket hub (probably same as axle but ya never know)
Maker of brake rotor hub
Maker of Anti-Fade Nut

Thanks for the help!


The axle is a LSR
sproket hub lsr
anti-fade baldwin or rpm

[thedeatons]

Sweet!! What about the brake hub? LSR also?

Thanks by the way!

[thedeatons]

Holy cow, Baldwin is in the JC Whitney catalog...

http://www.jcwhitney.com/BALDWIN-ANTI-FADE-NUTS-WITH-BRAKE-HUBS/GP_2015364_N_111+10213+600019820_10113.jcw

How can I tell whether the anti-fade is a Baldwin or an RPM?

I am assuming the only way to check the carrier is to pull it out...

[312R1]

Originally posted by thedeatons
Sweet!! What about the brake hub? LSR also?

Thanks by the way!


The brake hub and the anti-fade are sold together. I'm betting there baldwin.

[312R1]

Originally posted by thedeatons


I am assuming the only way to check the carrier is to pull it out...



Yes, but not all carrier's have a name on them. So if it doesn't say your guess is as good as mine.

[thedeatons]

Looks like you are right about the Baldwin... Here it is. The RPM looks a bit different.

It needs a little filing and finish work, and maybe some powdercoating.... Can these be torn down and powdercoated?

[thedeatons]

Man, I gotta say thanks to all you guys. I am learning soooo much in this one post alone! I appreciate everyone's personal attention!

[312R1]

Originally posted by thedeatons
Looks like you are right about the Baldwin... Here it is. The RPM looks a bit different.

It needs a little filing and finish work, and maybe some powdercoating.... Can these be torn down and powdercoated?


Yeah you can powder coat them, just make sure the coater mask off the splines and threads..most people have pappy molly coat them.

[thedeatons]

Why moly coat? That is usually used for bullets and such to reduce friction....

The pieces are aluminum correct? Anodizing instead? Polishing or bead blasting would be nice too..... I can get bead blasting done for practically free..... :)

[05LSR250R]

If you tear that rear end down, the axle and carrier should have the manufacturer stamped on them.
Everything looks like LSR except the anti-fade.
LSR never had the spun spoke look.
I like to pull my anti-fade hub off and hit it on the polishing wheel.
The good thing about the powdercoat route is that it will fill in all the dings in the hub.
Cant beat the look of a nice polished unit though!