got my new ds450mx

[ml450r]

I got my new ds 450 mx today, thank you TNT1. I have a question, I am sure I will have many..

I don't have a tether kill switch. Where is it? The owners manual says it comes with one, but it doesn't have it.

[outtagas]

Does anyone have the can am official press release from last summer that states the 2009 ds 450 x mx will come with a tether kill?

Phone can am they will tell you they have the right to change anything on this quad and they did - for safety reasons.

[ml450r]

My rear brake is also sticking, any info on that?

[outtagas]

Do you drink? now might be a good time to start!

I'm just kidding - i am just a upset owner of a 09 ds 450 mx waiting for parts for 4 months.

[ml450r]

well thats not good, what parts are you waiting on?

[outtagas]

A frame

[TNT]

Yeah outtagas situation sucks! I'd be pissed too, I've been there with Yamaha.......he got a bad frame, a Friday drunk production line frame the guy couldn't locate in the jig right.

Yeah Merrill I heard you were going to get it, I can help you allot just ask! JSR Performance is having stuff made for the quad, but we are waiting on parts and PEP shocks, so it's looking like we won't make Pell in time, not going that far with an old YAM.

Tether, there is a male factory connector right up front hanging there for a closed loop one like pro-design. You install a female adaptor on the connecting tether and it plugs right in, the ground back to the battery you need is in the harness. I can post a pic later tonight of mine if you can't find it, or I posted it a while ago and will see if I can find and bump it to the top.

I bet the reason they did not install one was a litigation issue, safety makes no sense that’s the whole purpose of them.

[TNT]

I posted a pic of the tether install for 400EX a while ago when he got his I can't find unless he can? I'll post it later tonight when I get home for ya Ml450r.

[ml450r]

I found the tether plug. Can you pm what your guy in whichita would charge for a piston, port and cam. I would also probably need a dyno and tune afterwards. I have been talking to rossier.


I have the rossier pipe and intake on it, livened it up a bunch.

[TNT]

Originally posted by ml450r
I found the tether plug. Can you pm what your guy in whichita would charge for a piston, port and cam. I would also probably need a dyno and tune afterwards. I have been talking to rossier.


I have the rossier pipe and intake on it, livened it up a bunch.

Just give him a call John at JSR Performance 316-706-3658. Tell him Terry sent you he'll treat you right. Just got a brand new eddy current dyno....

Our Rossier is on it's way. Glad it works out well, really wanted a custom M4 but this will do the trick. :D

[ml450r]

Just talked to John at JSR, he is the one who built my honda motor back in 2005. I am looking forward to seeing what he comes up with for this DS.

My Rossier pipe is hitting my shock. Livens the biek up a bunch though. I am going to put a 14 tooth front sprocket on it. I added a degree of positive caster to it, now 7 degrees. I am still trying to figure the shocks out...:grr: I can't get my ride height down where I need it.

[TNT]

Thats crazy caster but if you like it. Positive top ball joint to the rear. I run negative for MX for better steering lfaster turning ess speed control, top ball joint fwd about 3 degree. EPIC runs 1/2 deg neg prolly where I'll start on the DS.

Hitting the shock? Really I told Joe the 09 had a little different bend, did you get it to work?

[ml450r]

You don't feel like the front end is real twitchy with the negative caster. I felt like it was twitchy at 6 degrees(factory setting). So you run all your spacers in the rear? The pipe is on, but is rubbing.

It may just need a stabilizer. I did notice the steering is real lazy, I have to steer it through a corner with the rear end. My honda is the same way. My YFZ was real precise, but also felt twitchy.

[outtagas]

I have a precision stabilizer for the can am ds 450 i had on my 09 that i don't need anymore, it has 5 hours on it. I had to move all my spacers to get the upper arms back because i found it twitchy also.I guess i should sell my HMF slip on too, i have given up hope on the can am company and how they do business.:(

[TNT]

Originally posted by ml450r
You don't feel like the front end is real twitchy with the negative caster. I felt like it was twitchy at 6 degrees(factory setting). So you run all your spacers in the rear? The pipe is on, but is rubbing.

It may just need a stabilizer. I did notice the steering is real lazy, I have to steer it through a corner with the rear end. My honda is the same way. My YFZ was real precise, but also felt twitchy.

My son Trev the racer, heard you guys got to chat, good deal! He can answer more of the riding questions. We switched his YAM last weekend from 5 deg positive to 3 deg neg and I think he likes it better, time will tell. DS we don't have enough time on. Do what works for ya bro!

We run Precision on the DS, just got it on. If you don't get the pro model it needs heat tape on the mounting frame in the low position in front of the radiator. Natalie ran it up high. I had a great long conversation with whats is name forgot lol, at Precision, sharp guy, engineer like me, he said they riged it up top works better below.

But yeah man I was really please my boy is getting more in tune with his front end and can drastically notice the difference in positive and neg caster. :cool:

[TNT]

Originally posted by ml450r
You don't feel like the front end is real twitchy with the negative caster. I felt like it was twitchy at 6 degrees(factory setting). So you run all your spacers in the rear? The pipe is on, but is rubbing.

It may just need a stabilizer. I did notice the steering is real lazy, I have to steer it through a corner with the rear end. My honda is the same way. My YFZ was real precise, but also felt twitchy.

Sorry did not answer your other question. Yes we got the spacers all in and I don't like spacers, they are a weak point we will watch the rims, hubs, and hope the hollow steel axle can take it, hard mx. Honestly I am concerned and as soon as I can afford it will swap it out to Dom 11. Guys like you and Trev not good, for the advanced racers.

[crixal]

how much do you want for the stabilizer and pipe, outtagas?

[ml450r]

I guess the front end is what ever you like. I ran like 3 degrees for a slow smooth track, like a fair race or indoors. Outdoor stuff where you get into fourth gear, I think you need alot more positive caster. Like I said though I will "back" into corners more than steer through them.

I don't know if you can tell in the photo, I am turning around the pylon there. Everyone else is turning the wheels around it . :D lol I probably do have to much caster.


I am the guy in the far back barely in the pic...

[ml450r]

my new ds

[outtagas]

410 shipping included - damper
215 HMF shipping & quiet insert included

[06 Honda 450R]

Originally posted by ml450r
I guess the front end is what ever you like. I ran like 3 degrees for a slow smooth track, like a fair race or indoors. Outdoor stuff where you get into fourth gear, I think you need alot more positive caster. Like I said though I will "back" into corners more than steer through them.

I don't know if you can tell in the photo, I am turning around the pylon there. Everyone else is turning the wheels around it . :D lol I probably do have to much caster.


I am the guy in the far back barely in the pic...

hey do you know anyone from the H&H Team, i think there is like 3 of em in that pick, josh is the one in the middle on the trx, im gonna join there team some time soon, just gettin into racing, when was that race and where was it

[TNT]

Originally posted by ml450r
I guess the front end is what ever you like. I ran like 3 degrees for a slow smooth track, like a fair race or indoors. Outdoor stuff where you get into fourth gear, I think you need alot more positive caster. Like I said though I will "back" into corners more than steer through them.

I don't know if you can tell in the photo, I am turning around the pylon there. Everyone else is turning the wheels around it . :D lol I probably do have to much caster.


I am the guy in the far back barely in the pic...

I think the combination of the steering stabilizer and caster setting's will depend on rider preference and track. Nice thing about the Precision is you can dampen out the twitch in straights from neg caster and soften the side loads from positive in turns.

Your at a point where your intune with your quad but for the average beginner most recommend negative caster of 1-3 degree for motocross. This quad has alot of rake which will help with high speed stability, that may be why the EPIC guys are only running 1/2.

Why would anyone in their right mind buy this piece of junk? I like how everyone says how amazing they are but then in another posts says what all is wrong with them. Should of gotten a yfz450r.

[TNT]

We have both in our shop running mod test on them. I don't like the frame on the YFZr, too many sand casting's, open C channels held together by nuts and bolts 3/16-1/4 that can come loose vs the DS mainly extruded rectangles held together by aircraft huck permanent bolts 3/8 in diameter you have to drill out, very strong. I predict the YFZr will have frame probems from pros, well so did the DS tho and the rest, may be ok for the novice racer. The YFZr arm geometry is weaker than the DS, it lacks support. Go look at the two side-by-side as I did.

The two motor's are two totally different animals. They down sized the ports on the YFZr, which is good for low end torque, mx, xc, but lacks for duners and draging, so the YFZr has that over the DS with BIG ports and valves. Also the DS valves are very heavy and it's valve train is it's bottle neck in gaining low end power, or one, but that can be overcome just as the YFZr motor can be tunned for speed.

Both good quads w/their strengths and weakness. The YFZr first year we have yet to see if it's an improvement. We have two YAMs for the past five years, in 04 YAM revolutionized the industry, the forerunner in race ready quads, they needed an up lift w/the stiff competition like the DS, LTR, KTM, on the market. Be interesting to see that HON does hopefully next year. I'm not a KAWI fan so won't go there. :blah:

[ml450r]

Originally posted by yfzmxbill
Why would anyone in their right mind buy this piece of junk? I like how everyone says how amazing they are but then in another posts says what all is wrong with them. Should of gotten a yfz450r.

Look at the contingency they are paying....That is the reason I bought mine.

I wouldn't call it a piece of junk either. Everything you buy has some issues when you are so precise in your setup.

The quad is great out of the box. I put a pipe on it and I am going to Pell City in 2 weeks. I will know more after that race.

[ml450r]

Originally posted by 06 Honda 450R
hey do you know anyone from the H&H Team, i think there is like 3 of em in that pick, josh is the one in the middle on the trx, im gonna join there team some time soon, just gettin into racing, when was that race and where was it

The race was about a month ago at the sprint center in KC. Yes I know Josh, I am meeting him down at hwy 65mx today to see if we can get this DS dialed in.

He will be at the coliseum tonight racing too.

sorry didnt mean to offend just wish can am would make everything work great on their quad and make it perfect. i will admit they do promote our sport the best

[06 Honda 450R]

Originally posted by ml450r
The race was about a month ago at the sprint center in KC. Yes I know Josh, I am meeting him down at hwy 65mx today to see if we can get this DS dialed in.

He will be at the coliseum tonight racing too.

ya i race with them, im gonna be at the race too, this is my bike
http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr29/Bredehoeft/Image048.jpg
http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr29/Bredehoeft/Image050.jpg

[ml450r]

I just got back from riding this thing. I am impressed. The suspension is pretty decent. Its a little springy in the rear, fronts are as good as the PEP's on my honda(close).



It took a little getting used to. I rode a few laps, got things where I wanted them and then timed myself. My first lap time was 2:01.34. I took my honda out for comparison to see where I was. I ran a best of 5 laps which was 1:58.40.

I went to 9 degrees of caster and changed the handlebar settings, then went back out on the DS. My best time on the DS was a 1:56.10 by the end of the day. The track was getting in better shape so I ran a quick few laps on the Honda to see how I was actually progressing. I ran a 1:54.21. Long story short, I have some work to do.

I am definately getting more comfortable on the DS, but 2 seconds a lap isn't good.

http://www.escoremx.com/2008atvmotocrossresults/laptimes.asp?s=1&c=102&pc=102&e=6&rn=1&rt=M


Keep in mind the Honda is a full race bike with a 520 big bore motor.
Merrill

[ml450r]

btw, I have too much caster in it, but I don't have a stabilizer yet and it was to squirrelly without one.

[TNT]

I think 2 secs is incredible. Come on you are no where near comparing the DS to the HON, you have not even begun to tap into the power of the DS. Put a 520 in it and it smokes the HON at it's weight I say. Hon has some big valves and ports too but weighs alot......

Don't tell me those shocks are any where near the PEPs, I just order PEP all around over $3K. :grr:

[TNT]

Originally posted by ml450r
btw, I have too much caster in it, but I don't have a stabilizer yet and it was to squirrelly without one.

Are you on a fast track? You had that much positive, are you crazy! lol!

[ml450r]

Yes it was a fast track alot of fourth and fifth, that's another thing, the ds is too low geared.
The front shocks are great, the rear needs some work. Don't worry your PEP's will be the best shock you'll ever own, I am just saying the stocks are incredible.


I am not disappointed in the DS at all. I think it is a good bike. I am just wanting to take it to Pell City and win some contingency money with it, whick is going to be quite a challenge. I think there would be more than 2 seconds difference at pell city.


In 2006 I rode a stock ltr with a yosh pipe and cherry bomb. The series around here had a pro and pro am class. I ran the LTR in the pro am class. I pulled the holeshot in 16 of 22 motos and won 20 of those motos. This bike already runs better than the LTR did..;)

[ml450r]

Originally posted by TNT1
I think 2 secs is incredible. Come on you are no where near comparing the DS to the HON, you have not even begun to tap into the power of the DS. Put a 520 in it and it smokes the HON at it's weight I say.



I drag raced these two bikes this morning. They are closer thn you would think. At the top of third they are only 1/2 - 1 bike apart. After that the honda starts pulling away. I am impressed, I guess I will see in Alabama.

[TNT]

Theres not enough ratio between 1st and 2nd on the this quad, but third takes off according to my boy. Soon I will send my ECU to the head race team mechanic to remove the limp mode and rev limit and temp modes, that will allow more reving in 1-2nd we'll temp tune on Johns dyno. Remind me to give you the address, call Devin and tell him you want the ECM flash too, 2-3 day turn around.

Meantime I guess try and stay out of 1st.....We're waiting on PC5 and other parts, had I'd known it would take this long I would have keep the quad together do like you are for Pell, looks like we are not going I am driving all the way for a broken down YAM like at HLR last year.

I got the Precison to fit right in, they make a mounting bracket a little tricky to install but got er in, needs heat tape like I said unless you get the pro model which has a chamber for hydraulic oil to go to when it gets hot and expands.

Sounds good though I hope you win out there and keep up the good work. :D

[ml450r]

I think I may have figured out my front end problem. It has about a half inch of toe out, I am changing it to 1/8" of toe in. Move my caster back to about 5 degrees and try again.

[TNT]

Toe out is not necessarily a problem, that’s what a lot of people don’t understand. It’s a problem in straight line stability but a good thing for cornering since the inside wheel is turning at a tighter turning radius than if it were toed in. If you have a lot of suspension sag and bump steer (the DS has some), this is even truer when the quads suspension deflects and goes into a roll (dive in the corner). Too much toe can rob power too and too much of either wear tires. Just a matter of finding a balance that works for you.

Don’t know about you but my factory setting were way off….

[ml450r]

I took 3 measurements. The frame at 12",8" and 1.5 "(shcoks removed)off the floor. It was 1/2" toe out at 12 and 8, 1/4" toe out at 1.5. Straight line stability is my issue i am trying to figure out. I hope this does it. I set it at 1/8" toe in. I am racing it this weekend at Elk River MX down by Joplin.

[TNT]

Your issue is you need a steer stab....lol!

You did good tho, some bump steer in this quad but not till shock compressed far good because the bump steer in not a good thing...shock has 10.7 so you never see it at 12", .....I hope you set the 1/8 at your normal ride height since there is very little bump steer toe until the arm is horizontal then it comes on strong. Thats what I look at first when determining toe is where and how much bump steer i got or built in toe, and shock travel.

The less toe in or out you can stand the better for speed, only thing it really does is straighten the tire out on bumpy tracks thats what I meant by straight line stability....What happens is as a tire hits a bump it wants to move or deflect back toeing the tire out and making it want to turn, the toe in keeps this from happening and side forces on the bars. If you are running a smooth tight track you'd run zero to toe-out.

The positive caster your running is more for keeping the bars from twitching, 5 deg sounds like a good place to start for a fast track big turns.

Caster adjustments can effect the toe and Camber so I always do it first, then camber, then toe.

I was looking at some Houser silicast arms, there cool and allow easy caster adjustments that don't effect camber.

We had an old wrist injury pop after the seat on that dang old yam practice quad fell off in the air causing us to miss one of the best TQRA races of the yr @ Cooperland last weekend. Hope to be healed and racin this weekend too. Can't wait to we have the DS runnin, looking like end of the month, we hope, but the wait will be well worth it the quad going to be fast and smooth!

[ml450r]

Your motor will be built by end of month?

[TNT]

Well I hope so, we are getting things made for the first time, like CV4 offered to make their new fuel tank heat resistant cover free first one so our gas tank is with them......thats after I spent like $50 in heat tape lol, happen at the INDY show...then we are having a custom intake by the same guy that makes Fuel Customs Intakes, gets rid of all the rubber.....dasa used sheet metal last year and was going plastic like me last i heard....then we're getting a custom piston made, got the WEB cams Warnet uses, injector made I could not get from BRP, then the PC5 got the 02 sensor but the controller turns out won't be in until end of month, got the Rossier yesterday sending it out to get the 02 flange installed, calling CV4 tomorrow hear they make lighter valves, then the PEP shocks couple more weeks, lots of stuff, probably won't be done there thats just stage 1....lol!

i didnt know someone else made the fci intakes for him,wait till i get ahold of a can am im going to make a sweet one