Questions and discussion for A-arms & Shocks Wid. Kit

[Naskoradew]

Hi everyone! I'm from Bulgaria (East Europe) and like to read a lot in the forum!
In the last mounths I started to rebuilding my 400EX.
I readed a lot of threats in the forum, but didn't find information for widening kit with the stock a-arms and suspesion.
I started to made something like that. And I want to know if anybody here drives with stuff like that to tell his review for that.
I'd like to read what do you guys think about this.

Here is few photos from internet:


http://ftp.domainbg.com/naskoradew/Rebuilding%20TRX400%20EX/Prednica/26_1.jpg

http://ftp.domainbg.com/naskoradew/Rebuilding%20TRX400%20EX/Prednica/4be9_1.jpg

http://ftp.domainbg.com/naskoradew/Rebuilding%20TRX400%20EX/Prednica/5b_1.jpg

http://ftp.domainbg.com/naskoradew/Rebuilding%20TRX400%20EX/Prednica/7f3a_1.jpg

http://ftp.domainbg.com/naskoradew/Rebuilding%20TRX400%20EX/Prednica/80b0_1.jpg

http://ftp.domainbg.com/naskoradew/Rebuilding%20TRX400%20EX/Prednica/825b_1.jpg

http://ftp.domainbg.com/naskoradew/Rebuilding%20TRX400%20EX/Prednica/c42a_1.jpg

When mine is ready, I'll post pics of it here.
Sorry for the "english" but I don't know it perfect :)

[bigbad400]

i just installed that same kit and i found it to be very easy, nice clean look with your bumper back on, they dont look to nice without the bumper, but for the most part i love it, but then again im not jumping a 70ft tabletop. so i cant say nothing about strenght.

[Naskoradew]

Originally posted by bigbad400
i just installed that same kit and i found it to be very easy, nice clean look with your bumper back on, they dont look to nice without the bumper, but for the most part i love it, but then again im not jumping a 70ft tabletop. so i cant say nothing about strenght.


I think the most important thing to say for this kit and the streight is; how logner will be the a arms after installing the kit. With widening of 2 inches I think there is no problem for jums. And other thing is, from what material is maded the kit. I use very fat steel, and not making huge widening, just 2 inches and the front wheels will be the same leight like the rear are.
Thanks for the answer, post some pics if you can :)

[bigbad400]

they extend 3 inches per side for a total of 6. or the 4 inch kit is 2 in on each side. they are made of good thick steel, i see no reason they would bend they look stronger than extended a arms, and the way they were cut with a curve makes them very strong. on my first little spin around i ran up a snowbank and jumped about 10 ft in the air and maybe 15 ft long and it was fine, now thats not all that big but thats the extent of my jumping so its good for me.

good luck on fabricating your own, post up picks when you are done.

[bigbad400]

i dont have any pics but the ones you posted are exactly like mine.

[Naskoradew]

Tomorow I'll go to see what's hapening with the laser cutting. I hope they'll be ready and I'll make some pics if they are.
After that I'll install them ot the ATV, to see is everything OK, and then the kit is going to painting.

[honda400ex2003]

looks really nice. they are thick and look pretty strong. if anything would bend it would be the stock frame mounts it looks like. I ahve been thinking about this kit also to go with the 3' extra in the back with the g force hubs I have. It would look nice then. keep up the good work, steve

[Naskoradew]

I have some news about my project. I got some of the parts and started to install them ot the frame.
Here some pics:


http://ftp.domainbg.com/naskoradew/Rebuilding%20TRX400%20EX/resized/02.2009/IMG_0915.jpg

http://ftp.domainbg.com/naskoradew/Rebuilding%20TRX400%20EX/resized/02.2009/IMG_0918.jpg

http://ftp.domainbg.com/naskoradew/Rebuilding%20TRX400%20EX/resized/02.2009/IMG_0924.jpg

http://ftp.domainbg.com/naskoradew/Rebuilding%20TRX400%20EX/resized/02.2009/IMG_0925.jpg

http://ftp.domainbg.com/naskoradew/Rebuilding%20TRX400%20EX/resized/02.2009/IMG_0927.jpg

Tomowow I'll make more pics. The machine is allready on wheels, but have to do some more things on it.

[billyboy93]

y would you do that it changes the hole geomety of the 4 wheeler

[smelly$cat]

What are you going to do about extending your tie rods? Just buy some new ones or craft up your own?

[jcs003]

if anything it will upset the great handling of the EX by adding unnecessary weight to the front end. extended A-arms adds weight that is negligable and distributed as honda intended.

[Naskoradew]

I'll make new tie rods and keep the old like they are.
If this change is makinkg worse handling so the longer A ARM do the same thing! All the stuff is 4.4 KG weight wich is very good and not too much. Longer A ARMS and tie rods making the same weight +. This days I'll make more pics, and i hope to try it on and tell here what is the handling... worse or better.
If you can do something by yourself is the better way...you make it like you want to be, and stronger and everything what you want :) ... I have maked many things...
One of them is ATV... from nothing! Only the engine is from Kawasaki, suspesion ELKA, hubs and axle from predator500.
Everything and the frame is maded by me!

Here is a link with pfotos and some info about the custom ATV:

http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=378782&perpage=13&pagenumber=1

[jcs003]

i commend you on your engineering. my point was that honda and other manufactures would of used a design of this nature if it were ideal for strength and handling charactistics. extended A-arms are only a minor modification to stock geometry which maintains its original design.

again, nice to see you doing your own mods.

[Naskoradew]

Originally posted by jcs003
i commend you on your engineering. my point was that honda and other manufactures would of used a design of this nature if it were ideal for strength and handling charactistics. extended A-arms are only a minor modification to stock geometry which maintains its original design.

again, nice to see you doing your own mods.

OK i agree with your points, but its not hard to try if you can ofcourse. The easyer way is to look from original designed parts, and make something like they are! And I don't do very big change of the dimensions. If its going worse I'll make it like it was before.
Just Here in Bulgaria ATV's are not very famous for the moment, but they are getting some views in the last years. And we don't have much shops. The parts are very expencive to buy from here...I meen EVERYTHING. When I order parts it's more cheeper to get them from US or England, Germany...And the parts what we have here...not like I want...something good and strong...most of ways good but 3-4 times more expencive then the other countries.
When I can, I'll make some photos to see what's hapening with my project of widening. And sorry for the "English" again :p

[jcs003]

if getting parts are an issue, you may have a business opportunity. since ATvs are getting more popular you could start a parts retail business or maybe even a dealership. i don't know your economy but it sounds like you will have little to no competition.

[Naskoradew]

Originally posted by jcs003
if getting parts are an issue, you may have a business opportunity. since ATvs are getting more popular you could start a parts retail business or maybe even a dealership. i don't know your economy but it sounds like you will have little to no competition.

I've been thinking about parts inport for sale, but its not so easy. I'll need to open a shop to buy a lot of parts...to make some business contacts. The time will show. The most of times when I need something for my quad, here I can't get it...I order it from US personaly from ebay, or some online shops. If I find it here it's very expencive. I find more quality products for the same price + the shipping from other countries.

[DuwBra]

You should definitely without a doubt save up for a-arms. They throw the geometry off and create different pivot points for the a-arms and shocks than what was intended. The only thing better about a widening kit is the price. They dont even come close to being as good as a-arms.

[bigbad400]

have you guys ever even rode with the kit or done widening kit home made? how would you know that it will make the handleing worse? just because it looks that way? well since i put my 6 inch diamond j kit on i havent had near the problem 3 wheeling in the corners, nore landing small jumps, i think it made my quad handle much better, diamond j couldnt still be selling them if everyone said they suck, they ride better than stock, thats for damn sure maybe not as good as a arms, and longer shocks, but i dont need anything better for what i do. and as far as this guy here he probably dont need anything better, you racers race let us riders just ride. why do you gatta hate on somones project, hes over there working hard to make that work and your just sitting here in the states telling him its not gonna work and its gonna ride like ****. thats not cool man, cant you just say i hpoe it works out for you! i think your project is cool, good luck?


well mr naskoradew, I think it will work great and i hope you like yours as much as i like mine, good luck and keep us posted.

[jcs003]

Originally posted by bigbad400
have you guys ever even rode with the kit or done widening kit home made? how would you know that it will make the handleing worse? just because it looks that way? well since i put my 6 inch diamond j kit on i havent had near the problem 3 wheeling in the corners, nore landing small jumps, i think it made my quad handle much better, diamond j couldnt still be selling them if everyone said they suck, they ride better than stock, thats for damn sure maybe not as good as a arms, and longer shocks, but i dont need anything better for what i do. and as far as this guy here he probably dont need anything better, you racers race let us riders just ride. why do you gatta hate on somones project, hes over there working hard to make that work and your just sitting here in the states telling him its not gonna work and its gonna ride like ****. thats not cool man, cant you just say i hpoe it works out for you! i think your project is cool, good luck?


well mr naskoradew, I think it will work great and i hope you like yours as much as i like mine, good luck and keep us posted.

i am a mechanical engineer, that is how i know it will have its limits and effect its handling. i have been an enthusiast for 20 years. also, we were not insulting the man, it is called constructive criticism. these forums are here to help and critique peoples projects. and to share common interests.

anyways, it is good you defend your mod.

[bigbad400]

Originally posted by jcs003
i am a mechanical engineer, that is how i know it will have its limits and effect its handling. i have been an enthusiast for 20 years. also, we were not insulting the man, it is called constructive criticism. these forums are here to help and critique peoples projects. and to share common interests.

anyways, it is good you defend your mod.

constructive criticism is not saying that it will ride like ****, in your theory about how honda would have used that design if it were good, what about better shocks then? tech. is available and many other 400s on the market have them, but not hondas. and why didnt they just use 2 inch longer a arms or whatever if thats the smart way to not throw things off, the answer is because there is a aftermarket industry that takes care of the problems we encounter with stock equipment and the reason there is different kinds of product is for the consumer to make up his or her own mind on what they want done to their unit.

CONSTRUCTIVE would be saying good job but what about the ..... or thats great but what does that do. definatly not just plain, thats gonna throw your handling off, and ruin the geometry that was its original design. my 4 inch longer axle and dual row bearings goes totaly against the manufacturers design, but not at all bad is it?

sometimes we say things in an offensive manner without meaning it, and i dont think you intended to bash his stuff but it sounded kinda harsh, i think after riding one you would say different, it does change things but i only noticed it to be more stabil, and handle better, racers wont want it because its heavy, but it does what diamond j said it would do.

how wide did you say yours was gonna be naskoradew? only 2 inches right?

[DuwBra]

Originally posted by jcs003
i am a mechanical engineer, that is how i know it will have its limits and effect its handling. i have been an enthusiast for 20 years. also, we were not insulting the man, it is called constructive criticism. these forums are here to help and critique peoples projects. and to share common interests.

anyways, it is good you defend your mod.

Exactly, the guy asked for our input and we gave it to him. This is what the thread is all about. If he didnt want anybody to tell him their opinion the name of the thread would have been "everybody give me only your good opinions about widening kits." My opinion is that it would be way more worth it in the long run to just get a-arms. And no bigbad im not a racer, im just a rider to just like you, so make sure you know who your talking to before making assumptions.

[bigbad400]

cool, i wasnt talking to anyone spacificaly when i said that, just anyone who said to get a arms. i think the kits are fine, and i really like the way hes doing it himself, i just thought the way the "criticism" was dealt that it was kinda rude and should have bean better worded, you cant just jump in and say that its plain not gonna work because it obviously does, i have one on mine and it ride way better than stock. lets just agree that some things could have bean said in a better way. and leave the discussion to a arms and widening kits.


im for the kit, im for designing your own kit too. and if you want a arms so be it, just not practical for me to spend that much, and yes i have rode a 400ex with extended a arms, and with the kit, i dont think that for the price i need to have that much difference. with 450r shocks this kit will be perfect.

[Naskoradew]

A lot of answers in the last days!
First of all if I wanted to put some money in the moment I just gonna buy a arms and shocks. But for the moment this is what I need, 5 monts ago I broked my leg on motocross track and I can't work and I cant drive anywhere becouse its too dangerously now for my leg. I have much time to do some stuff on the quad, but no working not so much money right?
In other way I don't racing, I'm just riding for fun(just some races for fun...amateur not pro just for fun and see friends not for the race)!
That's why I choosed to try with the wide kit!
I thoroughly observed all the dimensions of the suspesion, and wided it everywhere same. And the final effect is, the same angels and other things, bud wided a litle.
My kit is 2 inches yes, but if I like it for future I'd make 4 inch...when I have done it one time the second will be more easyer!
For the moment I'm almost ready with everything, when I can, will upload some photos to see the project.
The thread is for discussion and questions about wid,kit, not for compare a arms with wid.kit.
Yes A ARMS and shocks are the better way, but the price of those 2 is out of comparison.

[Naskoradew]

I have some pics here from last week.

Here I finishet with the stuff of the a arms. Installed them to see whats hapening and everything is perfect:

http://ftp.domainbg.com/naskoradew/Rebuilding%20TRX400%20EX/resized/02.2009/IMG_0937.jpg

The stuff for the shocks is ready, but I dont have photos with it. Now in the photos the wide is only on the a arms, and I liked the effect!

http://ftp.domainbg.com/naskoradew/Rebuilding%20TRX400%20EX/resized/02.2009/IMG_0938.jpg

http://ftp.domainbg.com/naskoradew/Rebuilding%20TRX400%20EX/resized/02.2009/IMG_0947.jpg

http://ftp.domainbg.com/naskoradew/Rebuilding%20TRX400%20EX/resized/02.2009/IMG_0956.jpg

http://ftp.domainbg.com/naskoradew/Rebuilding%20TRX400%20EX/resized/02.2009/IMG_0961.jpg

http://ftp.domainbg.com/naskoradew/Rebuilding%20TRX400%20EX/resized/02.2009/IMG_0964.jpg

For the moment everything is ready, painted also. In the weekend I'll make the tie rods and some other things and the project will be finished!
Ok I just want to say theese pics up there are not the final effect, I'll post new pics as soon as I can :) .

Here are some dimensions on the front wheels. Now is 117sm, and before it was 109sm:

http://ftp.domainbg.com/naskoradew/Rebuilding%20TRX400%20EX/resized/02.2009/IMG_0958.jpg

[billyboy93]

nice work but the handleing is goin 2 b so bad.

[bigbad400]

i think you guys are still totaly misled by these widening kits, why will it handle so bad? i got the 6 inch kit and it works much better than stock width, handling is way better, less three wheeling in hard corners, way more stabil, and landing jumps is a breeze compared to stock. i think you guys need to get past the scientific part of this and ride one with a kit on it. for the guy on a budget this is the way to go, my friend has a ds650 and when he rode my quad he said it felt better than his. they have fully adjustable gas shocks front and back, its wider stock than my 400ex with the kit. by like a full inch or more, inch and a 8th maybe. my friend with the z400 rode mine for 10 min and is now waiting for his kit to come. this is not as bad as you guys seem to think it is. we all know that the a arms are better but that doesnt make this kit bad, im telling you guys, you shouldnt be so harsh on the kit, it really does work quite well.


now on the flip side, i widened my axle too, i went from stock to a g-force +4, so the whole thing got wider, now in your geometry arguments i could believe it would handle like poop if you left the axle stock, with the front wider than the back it would handle like crap. agreed but if you just widen the hole thing. how is the geometry any different? the points of pivot are now out farther, better stability. the points of stance are now out farther, better handling. same ride height same ground clearance. why do you think it would handle so bad? this product was designed to make it better, how could it possable make it worse? and remember i ride one every day almost, it handles way better.

[Naskoradew]

Ok tell me why are you think this? And its not ready yet...I have to do some more things on it. But I dont thing the same for the handling...just thing a litle and then answer me. Are you readed the post before mine?

[honda400ex2003]

hey keep thinking they suck guys it doesn't matter. It just keeps the price lower for the ones who want to try it and can't afford a-arms and shocks. this kit uses everything stock so it does not matter. if it is not good take it off. simple as that. i might buy one just to try it anyway. if it fits my needs great if not all well. I will lose the money for the kit. i have spent money on worse more ridiculus things than that kit. Keep up the good work on the kit it looks great, steve

[Naskoradew]

bigbad400 wided his quad 6 inch infront side, and 4 inch on the back. this is 2 inches difference, and I'm widening exacly 2 inches in front and no wide for the back in the moment.
When I try it on, I'll say the difference, but I thing it will be better difference.

[jcs003]

another thing that has not been mentioned is the front shocks. if you are a XC racer or trail rider widening isn't always a major concern. you want the suspension to work with your power and riding style. so, simply put, shocks would be first to improve handling. the stock 400ex is like riding on rails in the right conditions.

[Naskoradew]

Well, I'm ready with everything. I drived it and the handle is better than before! Better in corners, rocks and everything i've drived for 2-3 hours.
Here are some photos from the final look of the machine :

All the parts uninstalled again :D :

http://ftp.domainbg.com/naskoradew/Rebuilding%20TRX400%20EX/resized/03.2009/IMG_1143.jpg


Here are the upper a arm stuff, allready painted and installed:

http://ftp.domainbg.com/naskoradew/Rebuilding%20TRX400%20EX/resized/03.2009/IMG_1145.jpg


Everything for the a arms is ready:

http://ftp.domainbg.com/naskoradew/Rebuilding%20TRX400%20EX/resized/03.2009/IMG_1148.jpg


Allmost ready, only the tie rods need to be installed:

http://ftp.domainbg.com/naskoradew/Rebuilding%20TRX400%20EX/resized/03.2009/IMG_1151.jpg

http://ftp.domainbg.com/naskoradew/Rebuilding%20TRX400%20EX/resized/03.2009/IMG_1152.jpg

http://ftp.domainbg.com/naskoradew/Rebuilding%20TRX400%20EX/resized/03.2009/IMG_1155.jpg

http://ftp.domainbg.com/naskoradew/Rebuilding%20TRX400%20EX/resized/03.2009/IMG_1156.jpg

http://ftp.domainbg.com/naskoradew/Rebuilding%20TRX400%20EX/resized/03.2009/IMG_1158.jpg

http://ftp.domainbg.com/naskoradew/Rebuilding%20TRX400%20EX/resized/03.2009/IMG_1159.jpg

http://ftp.domainbg.com/naskoradew/Rebuilding%20TRX400%20EX/resized/03.2009/IMG_1161.jpg

http://ftp.domainbg.com/naskoradew/Rebuilding%20TRX400%20EX/resized/03.2009/IMG_1162.jpg

Here is some look of the whole atv :

http://ftp.domainbg.com/naskoradew/Rebuilding%20TRX400%20EX/resized/03.2009/IMG_1170.jpg

After I rided it, i think all this things are for good. The front end its not so heavy, I make jumps and wheelies just like before install these stuff. For me this is very good choise to make some wide on the machine and save a lot of money. The wider a arms and shocks may be better, but for racing. For riding for fun, this is my choice. Maybe after few months I'll search for other shocks, but put them in this a arms :)

[jcs003]

all in all, you did a good job. now you just need some new tires. the tread looks low.

[Naskoradew]

Originally posted by jcs003
all in all, you did a good job. now you just need some new tires. the tread looks low.

New tires are buyed, but not installed. :)

[honda400ex2003]

Other than learning to type and say words like rode and drove instead of rided, buyed, or drived, you are quite the fabricator. It looks awesome. Just a question though, why yellow? It looks sick and I would like to try it out too, just to see if it works good or not. If you bend that metal give up all hope, that stuff is thick and looks tough. Congrats on the do-it-yourself set up, you should post the drawings and dimensions and I will make them in solid works modeling software. Then I can try to screen shot them for you so you can have a computer drawing for the future. Steve

[honda400ex2003]

And even if you have some drawings for the skid plates in the front, I'll make those too. They look like they were pretty easy to make. Steve

[powermadd400ex]

Originally posted by honda400ex2003
Other than learning to type and say words like rode and drove instead of rided, buyed, or drived, you are quite the fabricator. It looks awesome. Just a question though, why yellow? It looks sick and I would like to try it out too, just to see if it works good or not. If you bend that metal give up all hope, that stuff is thick and looks tough. Congrats on the do-it-yourself set up, you should post the drawings and dimensions and I will make them in solid works modeling software. Then I can try to screen shot them for you so you can have a computer drawing for the future. Steve

give him a break on the spelling, he's bulgarian.
looks good dude.

[honda400ex2003]

Sorry about that, I just thought it was funny to read it, i was not trying to be mean or anything. lol steve

[jcs003]

Originally posted by honda400ex2003
Sorry about that, I just thought it was funny to read it, i was not trying to be mean or anything. lol steve

it is funny.lol in his defense though. we aren't trying bulgarian.lol still funny

[honda400ex2003]

I know i'm not trying it. LOL steve

[Naskoradew]

Last days I tryed the ATV in different conditions. And I'm pretty pleased of the effect. It's more stable on the corners, and the extremes and hight speed riding. All the stuff is hard, and enough strong for the work, it was tryed. I don't why exactly pannted them yellow...just wanted to be contrast with the a arms. But after time, its no problem to make them different colour :) .
I dont have the drawings and dimensions right now. I'll get them of the garage and post it here. The same thing I'll with the skid plates stuff :D .
Here are some pics, from last Sunday.
I rode for a few hours in the woods and on the beach. Not so hard riding...because my broken leg is still not fully recovered.

http://ftp.domainbg.com/naskoradew/Karane%2015.03/IMG_2013.jpg

http://ftp.domainbg.com/naskoradew/Karane%2015.03/IMG_2017.jpg

http://ftp.domainbg.com/naskoradew/Karane%2015.03/IMG_2018.jpg

http://ftp.domainbg.com/naskoradew/Karane%2015.03/IMG_2020.jpg

http://ftp.domainbg.com/naskoradew/Karane%2015.03/IMG_2116.jpg

http://ftp.domainbg.com/naskoradew/Karane%2015.03/IMG_2109.jpg

http://ftp.domainbg.com/naskoradew/Karane%2015.03/IMG_2125.jpg

http://ftp.domainbg.com/naskoradew/Karane%2015.03/IMG_2126.jpg

http://ftp.domainbg.com/naskoradew/Karane%2015.03/IMG_2128.jpg


http://ftp.domainbg.com/naskoradew/Karane%2015.03/IMG_2138.jpg

http://ftp.domainbg.com/naskoradew/Karane%2015.03/IMG_2150.jpg

http://ftp.domainbg.com/naskoradew/Karane%2015.03/IMG_2152.jpg

[honda400ex2003]

nice man!!!! looks like it worked great. I look forward to the pics of the sheets. I will do them on solid works. Thanks alot steve