440 bore kit

[honda400-4-ever]

is the 440 bore kit overbored and if by how much

[Pipeless416]

440s use an 89mm piston, or i think you can also use an 87 with a +4 stroker crank.. don't quote me on the last part.

You can smoke a 440 with a 416 or 426.

[hypersnyper6947]

^^^
yup mine does :D

[honda400-4-ever]

which one is a better run for the money?? shouls i get new cranks and cams

[hypersnyper6947]

you dont need a crank, get a 416 kit from you favorite piston dealer, wiseco je etc..., then pick your compression ratio, i would go about 11:1 due to fuel requirements, so you can run pump. Then prob go with a cam or a 450r carb or P&P, or all three !

[honda400-4-ever]

why not the 440 or 426 bores?? do have to get the 450r carb?

[ThreeDollaBills]

Originally posted by Pipeless416
440s use an 89mm piston, or i think you can also use an 87 with a +4 stroker crank.. don't quote me on the last part.

Yea that sounds right. Mine will be an 87mm piston with +4 stroker. I'm thinking this way is a lot safer than going with an 89mm. I can't remember TBH

[ThreeDollaBills]

Originally posted by honda400-4-ever
why not the 440 or 426 bores?? do have to get the 450r carb?

Well, you don't necessarily have to get a carb. It would be wise. You will get more use of the power your engine can produce that way.

[hypersnyper6947]

Originally posted by honda400-4-ever
why not the 440 or 426 bores?? do have to get the 450r carb?

i would not get the 440 b/c of reliability issues, i take great care of my stuff and still managed to drop 2 valves and destroy my 440 engine.

if you do a 416 it gives you room to later rebuild to a 426 so you still have some bore left

My 416 now is more powerful than the 440 i had, so you dont need the "big" bore to make the power.

You dont have to do the carb but it is the most bang for the buck upgrade for power.

The carb will help out alot. Seems like the 440's have alot of low end power. (thats how my buddy's have been) You'll be faster on a 416. I hear 426 with 450 carb is pretty fast also. Its all up to you just throwing out cents.

[ThreeDollaBills]

Yea, I'm getting a 440 because I want power. I am not really worried about top end. Most people say that they are fast through 4th gear. I'm hardly ever in 4th when I ride. Especially the trails.

[honda400-4-ever]

so on the 416 can u feel a power difference than stock......do u have to rejet??

[AZ440ex]

I see everyone is on the "416 is faster than a 440" kick again.
I would read the article by Four Stroke Tech before you decide.


Ask Mickey Dunlap 3/3/2002
Welcome to the first edition of "ask Mickey Dunlap".. I'd like to start by thanking him for taking time out of his busy schedule at Four Stroke Tech to answer some questions for us!


TREX400 asks;
next to a slip-on silencer, jet change and air box mod which would be the best hp for the dollar: high compression piston (416cc or less, no big bores) or a new cam grind??

answer;

Thank you for your question. I prefer to build a motor that pulls quick and hard through the RPM range and the piston with higher compression will build more cylinder pressure which develops torque and will rev quicker and run faster through the RPM range. On most after-market pistons, the pin to deck height is the same as stock. You should have a minimum of .040 clearance between the piston and head with everything torqued down. Right now the piston is about .043 too low and you are not getting a true compression ratio as advertised by most piston companies. For instance, a 440 11:1 flat top piston advertised is really only about 9.75:1 if you measured the volume correctly. In order to get the deck heights better, I use Honda HT silicone seal on the cylinder base and an XR400 gasket if you are running an 80 over piston or smaller. This will get you close to what your deck height should be. Keeping the squish clearance down to .040 gives a better quench area around the outside of the piston keeping it cool and less chance for detonation. You will be able to run an 11:1 motor on pump gas in most cases and have a more efficient flame travel and quicker burn rate across the top of the piston.I have read on the forums here how everyone thinks a 416 is faster and revs quicker than a 440 kit with the same compression. I think most people are not running as high a compression ratio with the 440 kits as they think they are and when you put a cam with it, you end up with lower cylinder pressure making the machine rev slower than the higher compression 416 motor. Just my thoughts anyway. Without talking to each individual, it's hard to figure out why people think the 416 is faster than the 440. Any time you put a longer duration cam in, you have less time to build cylinder pressure. This is why it's important to put a higher compression piston in when you install a longer duration cam. You can get more torque the higher you go on the compression ration and your cam will give you the mid-range to top-end without losing low-end.

In the end if a 440 is built CORRECTLY it produces more power. Dyno's don't lie.

JUST FOOD FOR THOUGHT.

[ThreeDollaBills]

Good information.. I like IT :D

[odog]

i think you will love the 440 kit my bike had an 11.1 85.5 piston (406) stage 2 hot cam full procircut t-4 exhaust and i was the better rider and i raced my buddy stock 440ex i mean stock pipe filter everything except piston on the top end i could catch him about 4th gear but i had taller gearing if he would of had exhaust filter and cam it wouldnt even been a race those 440 are very torquey and real fun to ride when i rode the 440 hard it would come up 1-3 gears and thats riding each gear to the rev but i should have my new build out the shop this sat. 460ex. all in all ive ridden 700raptor, ltz400, banshee, kfx450, kfx400, mojave250, blaster 200 stock 400ex slightly moded 406ex, raptor 660 and 2 440ex and by far the two 440ex s were funner to ride then any of those quads i just listed they were even funner then my slightly modded 406ex

[ThreeDollaBills]

[i] [/B]
I got a 440 coming out. Should be a little bigger than a 460. We did a displacement formula and it came out almost 470. I'm not sure if we calculated it right. But

440
+4 Stroker crank
Stage 2 Web Cam
Full System Exhaust
FCR Carb

Trying to think of other things.

[odog]

that should be a 460 u are getting 89mm piston with a 74mm (+4)crank equals a 460.03 i think. thats what i have

[ThreeDollaBills]

Ah I was thinking I had something else done to it that made it bigger... idk it's been a year since I had all the stuff ordered.

[odog]

u could have an 89.25 or 89.5 piston that would make it higher

[ThreeDollaBills]

It's possible. I haven't had the thing for a year so I will figure it out when I get it back. The mechanic and I will sit down and figure it out. I'm not that smart. :S

[hypersnyper6947]

Just to clear things up, i was not saying that my 416 is faster than a 440 just because its a 416, my 416 has a lot more done to it than just a bore, plus it was built by Gt Thunder not by ZR he actually sent the motor to them.

What i am trying to say is that you can build a motor that is as fast or faster than a 440 with keeping the bore smaller, and keeping it a bit more reliable.

[BossHogg420]

damn u got zr's motor...nice i ended up with his suspension and hipers....wish i had the motor 2:D

[hypersnyper6947]

Originally posted by BossHogg420
damn u got zr's motor...nice i ended up with his suspension and hipers....wish i had the motor 2:D

Yea i happen to blow my motor, and i found his in the for sale section like on the last page i checked, lucky he still had it. I love this motor:D

Nice you got his shocks he had 2 sets of 450r shocks did you get both

[togup]

for those who are considering a 440 build your going to have to figure in your budget a set of head studs and a over bore sleeve and the cost of a machine shop to remove your old sleeve and install the new bigger one , its been many years since mine was done so i cant remember how much it cost me but the guys here on the forum can . by the way love mine no problems yet

[ThreeDollaBills]

Yea. Right now I'm trying to total up what it's going to cost me to get mine done. My mechanic and I were looking at it and it's going to be somewhere around 3g's to do all the motor work with parts. I am getting a stud kit too. It's definitely not cheap, but I have trust in him that he will get it done and do it right.

As for reliability of the 440. I'm really not all that worried about it. With my type of riding style I don't think I will have to worry about blowing it up, and I will change to oil probably after every ride. (Don't have a ton of time so I won't be riding much)

[AZ440ex]

Originally posted by ThreeDollaBills
Yea. Right now I'm trying to total up what it's going to cost me to get mine done. My mechanic and I were looking at it and it's going to be somewhere around 3g's to do all the motor work with parts. I am getting a stud kit too. It's definitely not cheap, but I have trust in him that he will get it done and do it right.

As for reliability of the 440. I'm really not all that worried about it. With my type of riding style I don't think I will have to worry about blowing it up, and I will change to oil probably after every ride. (Don't have a ton of time so I won't be riding much)

3K:eek2: :eek2:

It's up to you but I would shop around a little.

Duncan racing has a complete kit.
Engine Kits: 440 NATIONAL Kit
#EK-44NT-E $2350.00

440 National Kit
Includes: Fat Boy 4 Complete Exhaust System, 440 piston kit-sleeve-steel head gasket (installed), Camshaft, HD Valve Springs w/Titanium Retainers, Shortened Bronze Guides, DR Head Porting (with guides out), 3-Angle Valve Job, Edelbrock Carburetor Kit, Instructions, DR Tech Support.
Kit Options: Camshafts-Low End Cam, Mid/Top End, or Full Top End
Compression: 10-1, 11-1, 12-1, 13-1

440 Nat. Kit w/Twist Sleve Only
Kit Price is plus any OEM parts.
Customer must send in to DRI their; Cylinder, Head, Camshaft for modification. (or purchase new cores)

Kit may also be purchased w/o Edelbrock Carburetor Price $1950.00

Ditch the edelbrock(its not worth it) and your at 2K for everything. If you just handed the entire motor to them it would be 650 more but no reason for that, putting the cylinder and head on is easy.

Also Try four stroke tech and maybe trinity.

A 440 with HD studs and a cam with no porting could be done for 650-700.
You can get a new cylinder with the 440 sleeve and piston off ebay for 400, cam 125, HD studs installed 115, Gaskets 50.

[ThreeDollaBills]

Originally posted by AZ440ex
3K:eek2: :eek2:

It's up tp you but I would shop around a little.

Duncan racing has a complete kit.
Engine Kits: 440 NATIONAL Kit
#EK-44NT-E $2350.00

440 National Kit
Includes: Fat Boy 4 Complete Exhaust System, 440 piston kit-sleeve-steel head gasket (installed), Camshaft, HD Valve Springs w/Titanium Retainers, Shortened Bronze Guides, DR Head Porting (with guides out), 3-Angle Valve Job, Edelbrock Carburetor Kit, Instructions, DR Tech Support.
Kit Options: Camshafts-Low End Cam, Mid/Top End, or Full Top End
Compression: 10-1, 11-1, 12-1, 13-1

440 Nat. Kit w/Twist Sleve Only
Kit Price is plus any OEM parts.
Customer must send in to DRI their; Cylinder, Head, Camshaft for modification. (or purchase new cores)

Kit may also be purchased w/o Edelbrock Carburetor Price $1950.00

Ditch the edelbrock(its not worth it) and your at 2K for everything. If you just handed the entire motor to them it would be 650 more but no reason for that, putting the cylinder and head on is easy.
Try four stroke tech and maybe trinity

Ok. Well me being the kind of person that has 0 tools. I'm not the type of person that can just take their engine apart and get it back together. So add that 650 in ther for me making it 2650. And I'm going to need a new carb because I'm not keeping stock. Which he suggested an FCR Carb. Not going to look it up but I'm guessing it would be alittle cheaper than an Edelbrock. I would be in the same boat I'm in right now. And I just took my whole quad to them. Plus it's local meaning I can test drive it before I take off with itwhere as to if I send my motor off I have no idea if it will actually work when I receive it. (not bashing or downgrading them) The guy that is building this motor for me actually has a 400ex that he built up to over 500CCs total, and I've rode it. That was my trust in him. The quad is a 2001 as well. Been over 500CCs since 2004.

[ThreeDollaBills]

and we didn't buy a new crankshaft. We had it sent off and machined. Also he port and polished the heads.

[AZ440ex]

Thats cool man, its up to you.

For 3 K you could Hybrid it with a CRF 450 motor.

[ThreeDollaBills]

I wasn't trying to be smart*** about it. At the time I decided to have this done I was too busy to do most of this stuff myself. Or I would have went out and got some tools and tore it apart. But at the time I wasn't worried about saving money. I just wanted to give it to someone I trusted so I personally have no problems or mess it up. That's all. Spending 200-500 more dollars to have it done right is worth it to me.

[Pipeless416]

duncan racing can build engines correctly :p

[AZ440ex]

Originally posted by ThreeDollaBills
I wasn't trying to be smart*** about it. At the time I decided to have this done I was too busy to do most of this stuff myself. Or I would have went out and got some tools and tore it apart. But at the time I wasn't worried about saving money. I just wanted to give it to someone I trusted so I personally have no problems or mess it up. That's all. Spending 200-500 more dollars to have it done right is worth it to me.

No, thats fine. no offence taken. I was just curious how it came to 3k?

Figure
500 for port and valves
440 sleeve installed 200
440 piston 140
Cam 125
Gaskets 50
labor 600??
450r carb and adaptor 300

About 1900;)

[ThreeDollaBills]

Originally posted by ThreeDollaBills
if I send my motor off I have no idea if it will actually work when I receive it. (not bashing or downgrading them)

[AZ440ex]

Originally posted by Pipeless416
duncan racing can build engines correctly :p

Duncan and Four Stroke Tech are Honda masters.

I am considering 4Stroke Tech's 465 kit for next season. It's a Big Bore 465!:eek2: :eek2:

It's $295 for sleeve/piston/gaskets/rings and clips

[ThreeDollaBills]

Originally posted by AZ440ex
No, thats fine. no offence taken. I was just curious how it came to 3k?

Figure
500 for port and valves
440 sleeve installed 200
440 piston 140
Cam 125
Gaskets 50
labor 600??
450r carb and adaptor 300

About 1900;)

Youre forgetting the crankshaft (stock shipped off and modified), pro circuit headpipe, harden rockers, a new oil cooler and oil rerouted to top end of motor as well as stock way.

[ThreeDollaBills]

I guess you wouldn't consider my head pipe and the oil cooler part of the engine work... but it's all coming on the same bill ;)