Carbon Fiber Radiator Shrouds

[xsr_racing28c]

Here is the latest carbon fiber part for the DS450. Had these done for about 2 months now, you'll see a couple pro's running this setup soon. :D

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w176/FourWerx/Ds450-Rad.jpg

[cdoskocil9]

Awesome :devil:

[DGS]

That looks really well made, are they available to buy..?

[Blizzard24]

How is this going to hold up to: Roost, Branches, etc???
Will it hold up to XC use?

[xsr_racing28c]

These are mean't for MX use only. I would not recommend them for XC only because of the ability of these shrouds to cake up with mud. This is why you do not see the pro's using this style of shroud on the GNCC machines.

pm me for availability.

Thanks, Jay

[joedirt]

Can Am GNCC team uses those type of shrouds

[xsr_racing28c]

I know for a fact that Warnert Racing/Can Am Factory does not use this type of shroud for GNCC. I'm not sure about others.

These shrouds can of course be used for whatever type of riding you would like to take on, but that is at your discretion.

All of these shrouds will be on pre-order basis. They take alot of work to make as you can imagine.

Thanks, Jay:blah:

[ProspectorJim]

so,anything in the works in terms of hoods for the ds?

[TNT]

Ah the infamous shrouds. Seems to be A LOT of confusion revolving around these and no technical facts to straighten it out. I’ve talked to people out here, race teams, and everyone has a different opinion as to their purpose. Some say primarily to obstruct mud, others say to increase flow to a radiator that is already out front. So which is it?

If it is to increase flow lets see some flow rates in front of the shrouds and behind them?

If it is to obstruct mud a wire mesh screen does a better job is all you need.

Graphite is expensive and yes time consuming to lay up, and if not done properly voids can cause problems. This lay-up looks like it was done in stages (detail parts made separately) then clued together and opposed to a homogenous one piece lay up on a tool which is stronger but in this case impossible! Is it a cloth(mesh) or a tape(uni-directional fibers) lay-up or both, and was it bonded at room temperature or in an autoclave (oven)…..Did you use prepreg (preimpregnated plys in resin)? What film adhesive did you use to clue the assembly and was it done a room temp? Those type of answers will tell me how strong it is and how well it will do structurally.

Are you offering a guarantee on increase flow rates and warrantee against fracture, impact resistance, or disassembly?

I’m not concerned if the pros are using it or how cool they look. I’m more interested in their technical performance especially in loom of a bunch of myths. No offense intended. If you can produce some technical info I may be interested in purchasing them.

[xsr_racing28c]

The shrouds were designed in conjunction with a factory can am team over the early winter months, and our concern was of course to increase the air flow. I am not sure if there was any testing on their part as part is testing flow etc., but of course I would think so.

Materials: 2x2 Twill PrePreg 3k Carbon Fiber
Vacuum Infused w/ Oven
Tongue&Groove type forming of tiers w/ epoxy ( bonded under heat )

I believe that this product is very sound in structural terms. As with most carbon fiber products used in racing conditions, a warranty is NOT available.


Thanks, Jay

[TNT]

Well Jay I certainly want to thank you for your efforts on these shrouds. The lay-up you described certainly seems adequate for a non-structural application like this. Just so you know graphite in general provides a good strength-to-weight ratio but as you know for a premium price. Its not always a good choice in all structural applications and does best in uniform loading. It's not that great in impact from rocks etc or compression as metal either that’s why we put a layer of Kevlar on the outer ply which is about 5 x stronger than steel. Anyway if you have not done so already you might consider that and keep up the good work if you already know of this. I got to talk to Warnett anyway about my ECM and will find out more about testing on the shrouds. Thanks again!

[joedirt]

They did use a similar setup maybe not the best pic but gets the point across

[ProspectorJim]

Originally posted by joedirt
They didn't use a similar setup maybe not the best pic but gets the point across

*edit* nvm

[joedirt]

Correct me if I'm wrong but #10 Chris Jenks is not factory Can-Am in 2009 as your website states.

[ds450racer]

Originally posted by TNT1
Ah the infamous shrouds. Seems to be A LOT of confusion revolving around these and no technical facts to straighten it out. I’ve talked to people out here, race teams, and everyone has a different opinion as to their purpose. Some say primarily to obstruct mud, others say to increase flow to a radiator that is already out front. So which is it?

If it is to increase flow lets see some flow rates in front of the shrouds and behind them?

If it is to obstruct mud a wire mesh screen does a better job is all you need.

Graphite is expensive and yes time consuming to lay up, and if not done properly voids can cause problems. This lay-up looks like it was done in stages (detail parts made separately) then clued together and opposed to a homogenous one piece lay up on a tool which is stronger but in this case impossible! Is it a cloth(mesh) or a tape(uni-directional fibers) lay-up or both, and was it bonded at room temperature or in an autoclave (oven)…..Did you use prepreg (preimpregnated plys in resin)? What film adhesive did you use to clue the assembly and was it done a room temp? Those type of answers will tell me how strong it is and how well it will do structurally.

Are you offering a guarantee on increase flow rates and warrantee against fracture, impact resistance, or disassembly?

I’m not concerned if the pros are using it or how cool they look. I’m more interested in their technical performance especially in loom of a bunch of myths. No offense intended. If you can produce some technical info I may be interested in purchasing them.

Its top stop sand and mud getting in to the radiator to block it up to make the bike to hot and send it in to limp mode. A wire mesh screen does nothing. Trust me, In holland the track and like fine sand and mus mixed. I couldnt last 4 laps before it over heated. Wire mesh would do nothing, Stocking over ther front wouldnt do anything. The louver kits were deesigned to stop stuff going in to the rad. They have nothing to do with air flow.

[TNT]

I wouldn't say a screen would do nothing otherwise why would BRP and many other quad companies waste their time and money putting one on the stock plastic? There are a lot of factors that contribute to over heating and limp mode. First the limp mode itself is there for recreational riders to have engine functions in the case or error codes in the system so they can get back to camp, it’s a deterrent to the racer. 08 guys can get theirs elevated I hear and Friday I will find out if I can get mine removed.

The overflow tank close to the engine is another input of heat. I am going to try heat tape and if I can't keep my temps down within reason I will remove it and put in an over sized radiator. The new radiator will do several things, one keep my engine cooler when not in muddy conditions and better engine wear, two allow a greater capacity of cooling when mud is on my radiator. Some mud on any quads radiator is to be expected. Our YAM w/a big motor has an over sized radiator that is just as subjected to mud as the DS and we never had a problem. Then again we don't race in mud often, only prepped MX tracks and we try and avoid the first practice and will especially on this quad. The steering stem is about the only additional obstruction on our YAM and it doesn't do much for small particles, no more than the wire mesh screen in front of the radiator. Most sand and small dirt will pass through the radiator vanes, dune racers should have little concern. On the DS I will run a front number plate that will help. Also the tuning on the EFI can cause over temp if it is lean, the PC5 I am running w/an O2 sensor will keep me cool and f/a mixed better than other controllers. If all that fails I will try a another fine wire mesh screen wall right in front of the radiator. If that fails the louvers.

We have to remember we are not pro's and just because pro's run something does not mean we ALL need to. They in MX run 20 min + motos at lap times faster than most, so their engines will need more cooling requirements than armatures in muddy conditions to not blow a motor. Armatures will have different needs depending on their mods and riding style. Most am motos last 10 mins, 15 at most at slower lap times, revs. I would think the XC guys that will carry the mud for longer periods of time will have more to be concerned about.

I just find it interesting how convoluted the whole design concept of these shrouds has become. :D

[ds450racer]

the reason the mesh is there is to stop big stones smashing holes in the rad. A bgger radiator will help cool it down. I have one. on my race bike.

[TNT]

We need to get rid of that limp mode I am working it will let you know. The mesh should also take big packed together dirt clogs break them up and make them drop straight down to the ground.

Were going to get mud on the radiator we know that it's just a matter of doing other things to keep our temps down and try and avoid mud as mxr's.......time will tell we'll see. Im sorta stuborn got to see for myself before I buy into things. :D

[xsr_racing28c]

Originally posted by joedirt
Correct me if I'm wrong but #10 Chris Jenks is not factory Can-Am in 2009 as your website states.

You are correct, this was a switch over the winter, and I havn't gotten the time to edit that info.

Thank you. BTW: Those shrouds were used in the early races, but after problems with mud build up they were replaced with screens instead.

Jay

[TNT]

Jay take a house fan and blow at your shrouds and see if you feel more air in front of or behind your shrouds. I got 10:1 odds say you don't but you never know w/air flow. Then go out and get yourself a good dark maduro wraped cigar and blow smoke in the stream and watch the flow and you'll see why. Heck do it on a weekend night and while your at mix up a few martini's might promote some ideas(increase cigar smoke rate not martini flow rate is the goal).....lol! No seriously give it a whirl!

In order to increase flow rate without a fan or turbocharger you need a venturi. Here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venturi_effect

[TNT]

Here is a venturi design I did in about 30 mins on CATIA to show the concept. This shape will increase flow. I made it about 3" deep...I believe a wire mesh screen on both the front and back will obstruct mud from getting to the radiator if they are offset but some testing is needed. Anyone willing to take this and go get it built as a protoype and test let me know I don't have the time but I want a free one if it works. :D

I will provide a professional fully defined engineering drawing there are some more details I don't show here.

If interested PM me.

PS: Ray carbon lay-up is possible if you can do a machined honey comb sandwich as shown or if you have another idea fine but like I said mines free!

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk191/Terrylport/LOUVERS2.jpg
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk191/Terrylport/Slide1-1.jpg

god knows there probably going to cost 500 dollars

[ProspectorJim]

Originally posted by 121pacheco
god knows there probably going to cost 500 dollars

They're alot less than that.