View Full Version : 09 MX strip down
I have stripped my 09 MX down and will be doing the head, piston and cam next week, should be done soon and i will post some dyno runs..
sorry about the pic quality....
maticus
02-04-2009, 06:27 AM
hmm, i didnt know they made the mx in yellow? or am i retarded and you got new plastics?
Yip got yellow plastics..our team wants to stay with the yellow again...i think it looks better than the black...will post a pic when she is done..
ProspectorJim
02-04-2009, 12:55 PM
Originally posted by DGS
Yip got yellow plastics..our team wants to stay with the yellow again...i think it looks better than the black...will post a pic when she is done..
yea once the black plastics get scratched and wear a little bit they look really bad.
DGS are you going to go into the gear box and do the 3rd gear mod.....I guess some of the 08s grind 3rd whilst in 5th. Were there any changes to the 09 box?
One guy from Australia on HQ had it happen twice, two difference DS's in MX.
No need to go into the box...09 have a few upgrades...
The gears have been strengthened, meaning the gears are wider than the 08, the 08 was meant to have a reverse but never came to light so now in 09 they made the gears wider to strengthen them as there was space in the box. A new selector drum was also fitted and the casings have been changed slightly to adapt the new changes. The only bottom end change we will do is clutch basket.
Also no need to go to larger throttle body unless you are running really large displacement. A larger injector is recommended if you are running more than the pipe, filter and PC3 mod.
After stripping the 09 down and seeing the small changes made that have not really been advertised makes me aware of the commitment and dedication of the guys at Can Am...its a work of art....
Has anyone dealt w/the riv-nuts they put in the 09 frames yet? A blind threaded insert needs a riv nut gun to replace if you strip them and they are not fun to drill out like I did. BRP doesn't sell the metri gun and hard to find around town.
DGS are you removing the coolant over flow tank like the race teams last yr?
I am not removing the oveflow... we seem to have overcome the overheating issues and remember that the average temp here in the U.K. is not that high...we will see as the year goes on and it gets to summer...
andiboy123
02-05-2009, 10:43 AM
Originally posted by DGS
I am not removing the oveflow... we seem to have overcome the overheating issues and remember that the average temp here in the U.K. is not that high...we will see as the year goes on and it gets to summer...
NICE TO HAVE 2 PEOPLE TAH REALLY KNOW ABOUT MECHANICS !!!!!!!!!
1- DOES IT HELP IF I REMOVE MY AIR BOX WITH THE STOCK ENGINE?
2- PC3 REALLY MAKE A HUGE DIFERENCE COMPARE TO THE PINK WIRE MAP?
3- WHERE CAN I GET CAMS AND PISTONS AND DO I NEED TO PORT THE HEAD IF I INSTALL THEM?
4- CAN AM SAID THE ENGINE DIDNT NEED HEAD PIPE, TELL ME YOUR OPINION ABOUT THAT!!!!!!
MY INTEREST IN TO MAX OUT MY ENGINE WITHOUT DOING SOME EXTERNAL MODS, I DO SOME OFF ROAD AND HEATING REALLY COUNTS BUT DRAGING IS GOOD FOR ONE SUNDAY A MONTH HEHEHE ANY HELP WILL BE GOOD!!!!!!!!!!
Removing your airbox lid with a stock engine will not make any difference, if anything, you will lose power, about 1/2hp..
The PC3 is what turned our tuning around, it cured our overheating problems and we were able to custom make maps for each individual bike and modifications that were done. You cant build a modified engine without a fuel controller.
As i understand it, the stock head is pretty good and not too much can be done to improve. Most flow jobs on the DS are very minor and only really to clean the casting marks and get the ports uniformed.
In terms of cams i cant help just yet but will be able to in about 2 weeks. I have been using CP 12.5 comp pistons and they seem to be good, i wouldnt go higher comp for off road riding..
In my opinion, a full system id better than a slip on. The exhaust companies focus on building exhaust systems to a tuned length. The FMF has a slightly larger header and has greater flow. I have only had experience with the FMF and will stick to it for this year, our results have been good.
Once my motor is finished, i will let you all know my results on cams, pistons and flow work.
WesDS450X
02-05-2009, 12:43 PM
Dont be a fool, Just like the YFZ450 the stock header is best for the ds!! iv been saying this for some time now! lol
Maybe the stock header is the best for a STOCK motor, but once you modify and increase airflow with head and cam mods, the stock header might not be the best. Perhaps with the mods you have wesds450x, the stock header is the best for your type of riding, but for off road riding, you want higher flow. Same for drags...
This is just from my experience.. my opinion...
WesDS450X
02-05-2009, 01:36 PM
This info im getting is comming from avery highly respected yamaha builder here on the west coast that now builds can am's also, hes name lenny hes been working on yamaha's since they came out, hes got one the fastest yamaha's in the world and hes running a stock header. HE lost HP with an full system compared to a header+slip on of your choice with a 70hp yfz, and the same thing happened with hes ds450 build with 60+hp
Another thing, fastest 450 (witch is a yfz lol) is running stock header with dr.d slip on, HE also lost power with a aftermarket full system and noticed the SAME thing in the ds450 exhuast system
Originally posted by WesDS450X
This info im getting is comming from avery highly respected yamaha builder here on the west coast that now builds can am's also, hes name lenny hes been working on yamaha's since they came out, hes got one the fastest yamaha's in the world and hes running a stock header. HE lost HP with an full system compared to a header+slip on of your choice with a 70hp yfz, and the same thing happened with hes ds450 build with 60+hp
Another thing, fastest 450 (witch is a yfz lol) is running stock header with dr.d slip on, HE also lost power with a aftermarket full system and noticed the SAME thing in the ds450 exhuast system
Fastest in the world hey...??????:rolleyes:
I am just posting my opinion, what we have found for our conditions will be different from what yours will be, use this info or dont, your call...
Your both right in your own respects….Ive been trying to tell you all to start looking at everything that happens from the intake box to the exhaust as one big independent system with lots of variables(mods) and all the rules change from one system to another.
Like DGS said just because the stock header worked on your system Wes and the YFZ system doesn’t mean it will work on say DGS’s and mine…it really depends on the exhaust header flow rate and type of flow and that depends on a lot of things, the air system design. I also don’t doubt Lenny got a stock header to work with his mods, but does not mean it will work with everyone in the worlds. YAM system is totally different than DS with 3x2 vavles vs 2x2, different cams, ports, etc, than the DS…..
I think you can draw some conclusions if you used the same quad/test rider to determine a pipe for example, but even then there are some variables in the air density that can change HP, moreso on a carb motor. What I mean is if you tested the same pipe same quad on the west/east coast with different temps/rider/dyno/lap times/etc... you could get different results. If I were to take the chance I bet on at least 7 out of 10 times the full system is better designed rather than mixing stock and aftermarket.
Web makes a good cam and good job answering aniboy’s questions DGS and Wes
WesDS450X
02-05-2009, 02:17 PM
I never really thought of the west/east coast difference's. my bad ant hatin on anyone just sayin try it out if yea bored lol
andiboy123
02-05-2009, 08:54 PM
dammmmmmmm hehehe great discution!!!!!
first im from puerto rico and by far mine is the only ds 450 x on the island so i dont have any dealer giving me suport or experts helping me out that why i ask everything i can, i whent to a local brp dealer and they told me we didnt sell it to you we dont have the program for it , the dont even have a oil filter for it so now you know....
temperature here in PR is like 85-90 always and humidity is like70-80% so is very nice to ride on sunny sundays. but i represent all by my selfe hehehe
my question about removing the air box is becouse i read that ds need lots of air to get to the optimal engine power and how people take box lids o even wess one time said "remove the hole dam box!!!"
my settings are almost just like west and thos yfz with the cam mod sproket combinations are jus staying 1 atv in front, im testing my atv this week end w/out the box only with the air filter to the intake to see how it works
PR, UK, US wow, what a great international site….Aniboy your best bet is to run your own test where you live and see what works.
Coolant - We here I the Midwest can see over 100 very humid days so I think I will put heat tape on my overflow as I did all over my gas tank, run ICE coolant, keep the front unobstructed and take temp readings as we get towards summer, tune the temp down and see how it goes like DGS. I'm removing my thermostat. CV4 hoses do nothing for cooling but last longer than stock. Shrouds - soon I'll design some on CATIA, produce a Engineering drawing and get some made if I see mud accumilating. I believe a wire mesh screen is all that is neccesary but shrouds(covergent vanes/nozzles) that can produce more flow and not add much weight might be something to look at.
PC3 - DGS, PC5 comes out at the end of the month, smaller, more tuning capability, an auto tuner w/a 02 sensor….sounds pretty good but like $600.
Clutch - Look at bulletin 2009-9. Seems to me the 09 clutch has been fixed no need to new aftermarket anything. I will watch my basket and I am carrying the full replacement parts xtras…I may replace the basket mid season after all these parts and not made to wear forever under heave riding and new basket/hub will help reduce plate wear, then Ill keep the old as back up. In talking to the team mechanics the main problem in 08 was low clutch life, not baskets breaking. The 09 seems to be holding up. The 09 cluctch plates w/rounded corners, new hub, xtra plate, new cover, should keep the clutches from binding on the hub which caused the basket to break as well as the now oil flow from the new cover.
Steering Stabilizer - I got the 08 Precision to work on the 09. It mounts low in front of the radiator or you can rig it above like Natalie. Needs heat tape to keep the oil inside cool in the lower position or they make a pro model that takes temp better.
Cranks/Top Ends - omwracing.com is working on a +6mm stroker to take the motor to a 500cc, he can go as high as +15mm. We should have a big bore, stroker cranks being made soon.
Lower Frame Beam Skid - I found some roll on tuff liner in my home town I am under coating it since its made out of aluminum, a weak skid.
09 Riv Nuts - Don't strip them you'll regret it….lol!
Levers - Cant find after markets yet but if they break the race could be over. I may just carry some xtra stockers.
Rear Master brake cyl - I'm putting a bracket over it since if you hit the two wire leads and break the pressure seal brake loss.
Batt - Seems a little loose. Epic makes a insert….any ideas here to anchor it better? The plastic bracket has me concerned!
EFI - BRP makes a ECM tool that allows you to do voltage and resistant checks and troubleshooting. Don't ever remove or mess with the throttle position sensor since it will need to be recalibrated by BUDDS. DGS we will have to do this and I think only BUDDS can do it. Ill carry all sensors except the TPS/ECM with me to races.
Limp mode - My dealer has the latest software but he was not sure we can remove it yet….will know soon.
Intake - I have an all plastic intake being made in California right now s/b in soon…Ill take photos and show it.
Air Box - With my big motor I don’t know yet if I will remove it we will do some dyno test. I know DASA removes it and built a bolt on for muddy races.
XTRA parts to keep on hand: Starter Solenoid, Fuel pump relay, Batt, levers, EFI sensors, clutch, let me know if anything else?
That’s all I know for now. DGS and others keep us informed w/what you know and learn.
Thanks!
maconu
02-06-2009, 08:27 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by TNT1
[B]Has anyone dealt w/the riv-nuts they put in the 09 frames yet? A blind threaded insert needs a riv nut gun to replace if you strip them and they are not fun to drill out like I did. BRP doesn't sell the metri gun and hard to find around town.
I bent my subframe and ordered the 3 new pieces. They did not come with the riv-nuts. After a WHOLE LOT of digging I purchased some riv-nuts from www.enfasco.com. The size of the riv-nuts were the closest I could find to the holes in the subframe.
As for installation. I have a nutserter but I didn't have any metric mandrels and I was unable to find the right ones. I was told by 2 different manufactures that the easiest thing to do would be:
1. buy an allen head bolt that is the right thread
2. buy the nut for it and drill the threads out so the bolt slides in it.
3. Put a star washer between the nut bottom and riv-nut
4. put a wrench on the nut and tighten the bolt which clamps the riv-nut
It worked fairly well. With some of them I had to put vice grips on the bottum side of the riv-nut to keep it from turning.
Well TNT1 it seems as though you are going the whole hog on the motor..!!! I am keeping the bore and stroke std, CP 12.5 comp piston, head work, cams, retainers and valve springs...
On the clutch side, for MX or any intense racing, Warnett reccommend changing the basket, the rest of the 09 parts are good... Our team went through quite a few clutches last year, mainly baskets breaking..!!!!
I am running an Elks System5 damper, works great...
Lonestar make a good battery box, it replaces the stock 1 and although you need to cut the plastics to fit it, you can remove the rear plastics without removing the battery..!!!
Your dealer wont be able to remove the limp mode, you have to send your ecm to Warnett and they can do it so i hear, i will be getting 1 of those ecm's next week..
Will keep u posted...
DGS I am challenging that please go back to your source and ask them exactly what in the 09 clutch design will cause the basket to break......I have explained the 08 failure path and BRP's fix, tell me how it is wrong? My mechanic will do the same thing at the indy show next weekend Warnett will be there.
Look I already know there is no 09 data. Just guessing! Speculations!! I think 09 is well designed BRP knows what they are doing based on last year info. The quad is a "Race Ready Machine"!! Clutch casting assembly is good! Mix the assembly with billet asking for problems, hard points!! Non-uniform wear surfaces. Not all 08s w/heavy mx failed just as much as not all billet/casting combos fail....it's hard to say! We need more 09 info. Alot depends on how hard the racer rides the clutch and how well it's maintained. Many variables.
PS: thx for the ECM info think Ill send it with to give to Warnett. Get rid of that Limpo.
I will check what causes the failure on the baskets. I will be running stock for now and see if i have any issues. Being that the 09 quads have only really just come out, its hard to say what will happen even if anything does. I know the difference between 08 and 09 and fitted the upgrades to my 08 when the clutch went.
I suppose time will tell and we all have to just do the true testing...out on the track...
If i hear anything more i will post it...
cowchaser
02-07-2009, 06:07 PM
Very interesting disscution guys got alot out of it. Thanks
X400EX
02-07-2009, 08:55 PM
Same for me, thank you very much!
i highly doubt he built a yfz to hit 70 hp
andiboy123
02-16-2009, 09:05 AM
Originally posted by TNT1
PR, UK, US wow, what a great international site….Aniboy your best bet is to run your own test where you live and see what works.
Coolant - We here I the Midwest can see over 100 very humid days so I think I will put heat tape on my overflow as I did all over my gas tank, run ICE coolant, keep the front unobstructed and take temp readings as we get towards summer, tune the temp down and see how it goes like DGS. I'm removing my thermostat. CV4 hoses do nothing for cooling but last longer than stock. Shrouds - soon I'll design some on CATIA, produce a Engineering drawing and get some made if I see mud accumilating. I believe a wire mesh screen is all that is neccesary but shrouds(covergent vanes/nozzles) that can produce more flow and not add much weight might be something to look at.
PC3 - DGS, PC5 comes out at the end of the month, smaller, more tuning capability, an auto tuner w/a 02 sensor….sounds pretty good but like $600.
Clutch - Look at bulletin 2009-9. Seems to me the 09 clutch has been fixed no need to new aftermarket anything. I will watch my basket and I am carrying the full replacement parts xtras…I may replace the basket mid season after all these parts and not made to wear forever under heave riding and new basket/hub will help reduce plate wear, then Ill keep the old as back up. In talking to the team mechanics the main problem in 08 was low clutch life, not baskets breaking. The 09 seems to be holding up. The 09 cluctch plates w/rounded corners, new hub, xtra plate, new cover, should keep the clutches from binding on the hub which caused the basket to break as well as the now oil flow from the new cover.
Steering Stabilizer - I got the 08 Precision to work on the 09. It mounts low in front of the radiator or you can rig it above like Natalie. Needs heat tape to keep the oil inside cool in the lower position or they make a pro model that takes temp better.
Cranks/Top Ends - omwracing.com is working on a +6mm stroker to take the motor to a 500cc, he can go as high as +15mm. We should have a big bore, stroker cranks being made soon.
Lower Frame Beam Skid - I found some roll on tuff liner in my home town I am under coating it since its made out of aluminum, a weak skid.
09 Riv Nuts - Don't strip them you'll regret it….lol!
Levers - Cant find after markets yet but if they break the race could be over. I may just carry some xtra stockers.
Rear Master brake cyl - I'm putting a bracket over it since if you hit the two wire leads and break the pressure seal brake loss.
Batt - Seems a little loose. Epic makes a insert….any ideas here to anchor it better? The plastic bracket has me concerned!
EFI - BRP makes a ECM tool that allows you to do voltage and resistant checks and troubleshooting. Don't ever remove or mess with the throttle position sensor since it will need to be recalibrated by BUDDS. DGS we will have to do this and I think only BUDDS can do it. Ill carry all sensors except the TPS/ECM with me to races.
Limp mode - My dealer has the latest software but he was not sure we can remove it yet….will know soon.
Intake - I have an all plastic intake being made in California right now s/b in soon…Ill take photos and show it.
Air Box - With my big motor I don’t know yet if I will remove it we will do some dyno test. I know DASA removes it and built a bolt on for muddy races.
XTRA parts to keep on hand: Starter Solenoid, Fuel pump relay, Batt, levers, EFI sensors, clutch, let me know if anything else?
That’s all I know for now. DGS and others keep us informed w/what you know and learn.
Thanks!
hey tnt when you refer to the starter selenoid, are u refering to the starter relay under the batt?
yesterday after half a day riding me starter start clicking inder the bat but it wasnt turning on my ride it did turn on pulling it but battery ran out
any help as usual!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yes theres a starter solinoid(relay) under the battery however this could be a nuetral or clutch switch or fuse(check all) or main relay(middle one, swap it) problem...
Need some more info.
Do the head lights work?
Can you start in gear w/the clutch pulled in?
Will it start when it's in gear no clutch pulled in?
andiboy123
02-16-2009, 06:54 PM
Originally posted by TNT1
Yes theres a starter solinoid(relay) under the battery however this could be a nuetral or clutch switch or fuse(check all) or main relay(middle one, swap it) problem...
Need some more info.
Do the head lights work?
Can you start in gear w/the clutch pulled in?
Will it start when it's in gear no clutch pulled in?
ok, i swap the main relay and didnt work i swap my bat first push of the botton and it try to start but then its start clicking again
im charging my batt , its there is any problem if i jump the positive on the noid like we do to car starter noid, dont know how fragile is the computer, but i realy think is the noid/relay so 2 morrow i will go to a local shop where they are specialize with starter to see if they have that kind of relay if not i will try to contact you to see if you can get one for me at you local shop
and yes i can start my ride on any gear with my clutch pulled
and no it wont start with my gear and no clutch pulled
I'm assuming you got lights other wise it's not the starting system it's the ignition system.
If the starter cranks the engine in gear and the clutch is NOT engaged it's the nuetral or clutch switch, wiring/connections, ECM.
If you cannot start the engine in gear with the clutch disengaged its the clutch switch, wiring/connections, or ECM, battery, starter solenoid.
To check your solenoid:
Coil resistance check:
1. Remove the batt connections and 20A main fuse.
2. Remove the noid mounting bolts.
3. Remove the small wires.
4. Check resistance across terminals. Should be: 7 ohm.
Plunger check:
1. remove the battery and starter (big connectors)...you can jump from the battery to the starter wire and see if it starts then you know it's the noid. Don't worry about your computer there are lots of fuse that will blow first. A ECM fuse.
2. Or, check resistance accross terminals , should be zero or there is an open circuit(it's bad)
Need more help let me know.
This is my build so far...should be done with my motor next week.. still waiting on few bits....
This is my louver kit from last year....just cleaned it up and fixed it up...fits great
I read the pros run a constant(always on) upper and lower fan(which I will do) with those louvers, do you? They run a heavy duty after market radiator no over flow which I hear there is no benefit, I'm staying stock and heat taping the bottom of my overflow, CV4 hoses no tees that can split and super coolers by pro design. http://www.hotseatpowersports.com/Pro-Design-Racing-In-Line-Super-Cooler-p/pdr-pd540.htm
no rev limiting limp modes either.
Spectro or ICE coolant.
Looks good so far!
I will be running stock rad and hoses for now, havnt had problems yet... I will be running a flashed ECU from Warnett which has no rev limit and no Limp mode. I will also run the PC3 as i cant wait for the PC5...first race is early March..!!
Will keep u guys updated...
nate450x
02-17-2009, 01:17 PM
Hey TNT, i spoke to Ty at motoworks and he said the reason for removing the overflow and putting a cap on the radiator is because they were having problems with air pockets. The reason behind this is because the over flow is almost parallel with the top of the rad. therefore it's not allowing antifreeze to properly fill the whole system. This is the case only if someone had to drain the antifreeze for some reason (engine mods, etc....) that is why not everyone has had over heating problems. Another solution if you want to keep your overflow tank is to park it with the front end facing down a hill, it will allow the antifreeze to properly fill the system and get rid of the air pocket.
By the way DGS killer quad did you powder coat the a-arms cause i thought they only came in silver? Looks awesome!!!
Odd the whole purpose of an expansion tank is to remove air bubbles from the coolant allowing it to absorb heat much faster, and keep the radiator full or from pukeing out on the track/quad. The tank provides additional space for coolant to stay after it has been heated by the engine too, when the engine cools a vacuum is created and the tanks coolant is sucked back into the radiator then recycled in the enigine. Sounds like air was getting in the somehow. A pressure and leak test is needed periodically. I suggest we do all we can to keep our temps as low as possible that will prolong engine life.
DGS my son just got back from the INDY show early this morning, talked to him a bit ago he said we are hooked up to get the PC5 fast….I'll know more tomorrow. We have our first race March 7/8.
OutlawBill
02-17-2009, 02:08 PM
Originally posted by TNT1
Odd the whole purpose of an expansion tank is to remove air bubbles from the coolant allowing it to absorb heat much faster, and keep the radiator full or from pukeing out on the track/quad. The tank provides additional space for coolant to stay after it has been heated by the engine too, when the engine cools a vacuum is created and the tanks coolant is sucked back into the radiator then recycled in the enigine. Sounds like air was getting in the somehow. A pressure and leak test is needed periodically. I suggest we do all we can to keep our temps as low as possible that will prolong engine life.
DGS my son just got back from the INDY show early this morning, talked to him a bit ago he said we are hooked up to get the PC5 fast….I'll know more tomorrow. We have our first race March 7/8. Is that Glean Halen? I will up there Sunday watching
Originally posted by OutlawBill
Is that Glean Halen? I will up there Sunday watching
No TQRA, Cooperland, StillWater, OK. Were doing around half the IPT Can Am MXnational series but GH is a bit to far for us. Been there b4 nice track....have fun!
Pretty sure we'll be at RD 2 Pell City.
Originally posted by nate450x
Hey TNT, i spoke to Ty at motoworks and he said the reason for removing the overflow and putting a cap on the radiator is because they were having problems with air pockets. The reason behind this is because the over flow is almost parallel with the top of the rad. therefore it's not allowing antifreeze to properly fill the whole system. This is the case only if someone had to drain the antifreeze for some reason (engine mods, etc....) that is why not everyone has had over heating problems. Another solution if you want to keep your overflow tank is to park it with the front end facing down a hill, it will allow the antifreeze to properly fill the system and get rid of the air pocket.
By the way DGS killer quad did you powder coat the a-arms cause i thought they only came in silver? Looks awesome!!!
Nope Nate, those are the stock ones..!! When i rode a pre production DS450x MX the arms were also silver but now they are all matt black, really great finish....
nate450x
02-17-2009, 09:03 PM
TNT, I already know what the tank does and how it works, it's just like a vehicle with an overflow. But what Ty stated is that he went to the CAN-AM assembly line in Canada and he pointed out that they use a very expensive vacuum to make sure there are no air pockets in the system before it goes to retail. But if you for example, have a leak or lose fluid like alot of people were doing (Hose clamps) then they could potentially have a problem too. So when you go to fill it back up the coolant is not filling the radiator completely up and it is leaving an air pocket. They ran tests to figure this out by putting a temp sensor in the bottom and top of the Rad. and the top was reading hotter than the engine. Therefore an air pocket was discovered!! They just wanted peace of mind so they fixed the problem by getting rid of the overflow and using a cap to ensure there was no pockets of air.
Nate, I see what your saying now, I wouldn't expect the top to be hotter, weird! Seems like they could solve it by just initially filling the radiator through the upper hose first then the overflow tank, cycling the system and refilling as needed...thats what I will do since I got my engine out and thanks for the advice and heads up.
Just using a radiator w/no overflow still has an expansion tank too, at top thats why you don't fill it up all the way so air bubble have a place to go. In theory the seperate expansion tank is the way to go and why so many autos use it.
When I talked to the EPIC and Warnett they said they never run over flows reason being since it is too close to the engine. I get different stories from race teams mechanics and forums just like with the louvers.
I'm going to run a over flow and heat shield it and see how it goes. I'm hopeing the 09 system is improved.
I'm a little concerned about the plastic tee, I'll carry an xtra I guess and those stock hose clamps I was looking at last night. I don't even know how to get them off without ruining a hose, I need those otimier plyers really, but I'm replacing them with normal hose clamps. My dealer says the stock ones are better since they don't cut the hose but I don't like the stockers....Can't find them at any auto store or the plyers.
andiboy123
02-18-2009, 08:13 AM
tnt check you pm!!!!!!!
I need some advice, i have the option of FMF Q4 with megabomb header or full motoworks system for my 09..!!!
I can get the motoworks at a better price but not too keen on the looks..!! Which would you guys reccommend..?
Thanks
Is neither an option? M4 makes the best pipe out there. We got to see them all at the INDY show and got the low down. :D
Flynbryan19
02-18-2009, 01:26 PM
Originally posted by DGS
I need some advice, i have the option of FMF Q4 with megabomb header or full motoworks system for my 09..!!!
I can get the motoworks at a better price but not too keen on the looks..!! Which would you guys reccommend..?
Thanks
Get the Q4 only if the quietest exhaust out there is a must. Otherwise go with the MW. FMF makes great products, but the Q4 is designed to be the quietest aftermarket pipe on the market. Not the best performing.
Originally posted by TNT1
Is neither an option? M4 makes the best pipe out there. We got to see them all at the INDY show and got the low down. :D
Who is M4...? Those are the 2 options i have here in the U.K..? Or Leo Vince but rather 1 of the other 2
crixal
02-18-2009, 03:32 PM
tnt, you're racing at stillwater this weekend?
M4 is the best pipe on the market period, big on street race bikes, mx, etc......when I have I steered you guys wrong? I'll know more tomorrow but our dealer will hopefully let us borrow a DS(since ours is torn down) so we can drive all the way to Texas 6 hrs to have the first one made for the 09 DS450, should work for 08's....hopefully available within a week or two and the guy can ship it anywhere in the world.
Sample: http://www.forwardmotionmc.com/pcb-8-m4.aspx?gclid=CN6dzoGo55gCFQHHGgodIGfYdQ
Crixal, we are hoping to be in StillWater March 7/8 TQRA with the DS if not a YFZ450.....we'll try and take your neighbor Johnny Hale to the cleaners on the DS, well we hope....He's the fastest in the mid-west a mid ATVA national pro-am racer, so it won't be easy, but he's been racing 3x longer so if my boy takes him it will be a big victory and he has been very close before. Come check it out, here is the series..http://www.tqra.com/races.htm We also race ATVA nationals around the US.
PC5 on the way....this is the most efficient system of ANY fuel/air system on any quad on the market. If anyone wants one PM me and I'll see what I can do. Not available to the public for a while Ive been told.
CV4 is making the first gas tank heat shield boot for us....
New all plastic intake will be here early next week I'll take pics and show.
CP is making us a big bore we are talking with their engineers on the size.
Race team Web Cams on the way...
PEP PD1 shocks ordered today.
New 09 Pro Armor nurfs arrived = Awesome!
Friday when we go get our YAM dynoed I'll take photos of the DS/YAM valves and CAMs next to each other, wow, what a difference, DS is huge!
cdoskocil9
02-18-2009, 06:11 PM
Got any pics of the 09 Pro Armors?
Sure! Just got them yesterday have not put the webings on yet. THey bolt up to an xtra wide peg and that joint is MUCh stronger than stock. We just got sponsored by them last week so do me a favor and mention Portier if you order some....they have great rider support and products. They will look and work great when our quad is complete.
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk191/Terrylport/IMG_2606.jpg
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk191/Terrylport/IMG_2607.jpg
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk191/Terrylport/IMG_2608.jpg
cdoskocil9
02-18-2009, 06:43 PM
Thats the ones I have but mine are silver.... I had to cut mine though because they would not clear the pipe as it goes into the silencer on my HMF exhaust........Honestly mine didnt fit that great either good luck with them.....
Oh really! Hmmmm..thanks for the info I'll make sure we take it to our pipe guy for clearance. These are way better than stock and we have ran others like AC and are way better then them...we'll see I'll get em to work very well w/ our pipe you know me :D
The stock peg was way to narrow thats why we got new ones.
cdoskocil9
02-18-2009, 06:57 PM
I agree now that I have them on I love them but for what they cost I was expecting a little better fit oh well there on and they work great/look great ......besides the pipe clearance.....
I don't know about last year rider support but we got these things dirt cheap!!
Heres the way I see, it and I was just explaining this to our engine builder tonight, Can Am w/their new rider support program has now taken over the market, they are the top dog. No other OEM is offering that kind of rider support. That will have a trickle effect on others since the volume of sales will play a new factor on rider support such as with Pro-Armor and others. The intent to push the quad out to the race scene as well as the after market part industry. All eyes will be on BRP now, thank goodness! Im so glad I got a DS and not a KTM, especially w/ the new PC5 and the new factory support programs. We are seeing alot of support across the board now, companies doing things for us for free even, for the 09 DS 450.
nate450x
02-18-2009, 08:41 PM
TNT, first off i want to say thank you for your info!! You do a great amount of research to help us and i greatly appreciate it. I am also very determined to learn everything i can about this machine and it helps to know everyone else on here is too!! Also, i agree with you about the overflow i am keeping mine just wanted to let you guys know a little of what i have found. I am new to racing this year and it helps to know everything i can to make our DS' the best and most competetive!!
I too agree with what you are saying, Can-Am is going above and beyond any other manufacturer out there!!! Maybe someday ATV's and racing them will propel to what Motocross has become, or even bigger!!!
Originally posted by DGS
I need some advice, i have the option of FMF Q4 with megabomb header or full motoworks system for my 09..!!!
I can get the motoworks at a better price but not too keen on the looks..!! Which would you guys reccommend..?
Thanks
Thanks Nate I enjoy helping you all out and I am learning from it too.
Now lets get back to DGS's delimma......
DGS you know what these pipe mfg's do, they get stock quads and build a pipe to it. There is no way they could build a pipe to all the different mods out there and all the different exhaust gas volumes and flow, so it's really a guessing game for guy's like you and I with mods, and with you being over in the UK and me in the USA even moreso due to atmosheric differences. What works for me may not for you.
What I would do is call those two companies tell them of your mods and ask them what kind of dyno results you can expect, then purchase both and since you have to get on the dyno anyway test them then send the worse one back....If you don't get the dyno results they claim they should refund you.
Of course the best thing is to have access to several slip ons and try different ones to fit your specific needs.
In header design it's the transitions that make or break a pipe, the more the better to decrease vortex's or turbulance and back pressure. Lets see if I can this right, the longer the can the more noise reduction and restrictions(back pressure) .....makes sense since the air is in the can longer being broke up by the perforations in the core. Also if you want to run an 02 you'll need mounting provisons in the pipe for it. My point is do some research on pipes and you'll be able to just look at them and tell a good pipe design from the another.
TNT1, thanks for the info but i will not be able to buy 2 pipes and hope they take 1 back...its just R&D i cant afford and do the time testing different pipes..!! I see that a few Warnett riders where using FMF... i also heard that FMF pipe handles engine mods better..!!! All hearsay so not sure..!!
I am swaying towards FMF...i used it last year and loved it..The Megabomb header is really light and is fairly larger diameter than the stock unit...repacking is not an issue as i regularly pack and maintain my pipes...
I will let you guys no what i find..!!
Thanks for all the help..
I have decided to go with the Motoworks SR4 Carbon full system..
Will post pics when i get it.....Thanks for all the info...
I just got word our dealer will let us borrow a DS for couple days to take down to TX and have a M4 made, jigged, we're trying to get together end of feb too. It will probably take a week so end of Feb and I will have a much better pipe for modded DS's that they can drop ship to you in the UK at a good price. If not good luck w/motoworks, this will at least give the DS another option.
Here are some photos of our 09....the cyl my engine builder is having 505 sleeves built soon for those interested and later a 520. The TB I show the intake and exhaust side we measured . 46 right a valve and will take it to .50 and offer and new valve soon...the TB needs work there is a lip/seat for the valve to sit on that needs to be blended.
Check out the difference in size of YAM valves and the DS bigger...
I included some pic of their new eddy current dyno and us tuneing a YAM/carb motor, much more difficult and less accurate than EFI due to atmospheric conditions the EFI will compensate for.
We got a new M4 pipe coming soon with difference slip on options to match your mods....
New intake/KN filter coming soon.
PC 5 he can get, tuner retails at $320 and has more tuneing than the PC3, the auto tuners w/02 sensor like $299 I think.
Call the number below for any of the work.....ask for John or Kyle and tell them Terry sent you they'll cut you a good deal..they ship parts and motor all over the world no prob.
JSR Performance, LLC.
316-706-3658
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk191/Terrylport/Valves.jpg
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk191/Terrylport/Valves2.jpg
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk191/Terrylport/TB.jpg
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk191/Terrylport/TB2.jpg
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk191/Terrylport/CYL.jpg
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk191/Terrylport/DYNO.jpg
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk191/Terrylport/DYNO2.jpg
I am almost done...fired her up today for he first time since i got her...!!! Sweet...
Last 1...New Motoworks SR4 Carbon...
Sorry TNT1, had to get the PC3...racing next weekend and still need to dyno and run in...!!!
ds450racer
02-25-2009, 02:31 PM
where u racing at DGS?
Originally posted by ds450racer
where u racing at DGS?
Margate..!!! Will u be there..?
andiboy123
02-25-2009, 09:05 PM
yeahhhhhh dgs!!!!!!!
hope to see those dyno runssssss
and let me know if the exhaust cam mod work well!!!!!!!!
ask you tech if it work with stock engine
Originally posted by andiboy123
yeahhhhhh dgs!!!!!!!
hope to see those dyno runssssss
and let me know if the exhaust cam mod work well!!!!!!!!
ask you tech if it work with stock engine
Hey Andiboy i will post the runs as soon as they are done...
I am my own tech/mechanic so i will let you know about the cam mod..Chow
ds450racer
02-26-2009, 03:18 AM
Originally posted by DGS
Margate..!!! Will u be there..?
No i was planning to but its came up alot quicker than epected it to. Im doing some mx practice this weekend in oxford.
good luck.
I wish i could be riding at the Nora practice day...my bike isnt ready yet but i will be at the first round in a couple weeks..!!!
ds450racer
02-26-2009, 02:03 PM
I didnt realise margate was next weekend i thought it was this weekend. Ill send my entry form in for it so hopefully ill see you there.
Man we are a good three weeks out from getting all the parts made for the DS PEP shocks 4 weeks and our season started…that’s the problem with a newer quad, avalability, but in the end there will be nothing like it will rip! We got an old YAM in the meantime.
So whats the racing scene in the UK like? How many entries? Do you have national series, regional, local like we do here in the states?
ds450racer
02-26-2009, 04:26 PM
you pretty much have the british mmx championship which is the top class along with the european. Then there are are normal clubs where you have the pro class ,expert,intermediate then beginner class. an average race you will see about 120 riders there. You do have different clubs for different areas. Like there the scottish championship, southern championship ,irish etc.
Not really sure about enduro. I think its pretty much the same kind of thing.
ml450r
02-28-2009, 06:44 AM
TnT what class are you going to run at the nationals.
DGS
Quad is looking good, Is it an actual mx model. I thought they only came in black.
A and 16/24 a few Pro-AM # 101 RD1 ATVA Pell City March 21/22, AL we hope quad DS should be ready by then.....:D
ml450r
02-28-2009, 02:00 PM
There is some good contingincey money for you to make with the DS. Good luck.
Originally posted by ml450r
TnT what class are you going to run at the nationals.
DGS
Quad is looking good, Is it an actual mx model. I thought they only came in black.
Thanks ml450r, i will be getting my plastics this week... I will also be at the dyno on tuesday setting up the PC3 for the mods i got, i will get the charts and post them up...!!!
Really cant wait to get her out on the track...:macho
sorry , they do only come in black but our rae team wants to stay with yellow this year so we changed the plastics...those are just temp until mine get here...robbed them off an 08 for a photo shoot..LOL:D
Originally posted by ml450r
There is some good contingincey money for you to make with the DS. Good luck.
Thanks BUD you too in all you do. What place do you have to get for it again, A class and Pro Am only right? ...We'll be at the HLR Regional Championship race running A/Pro-AM in Moberly, Mo close by you too come check it out.
DGS what mods you dyno'ing? Man the buy-in to get them made for the M4 pipe we wanted was too steep, now I'm looking at pipes. I was looking at the FMF mega bomb today header and noticed that venturi tube design to get velociity up I have telling you guys about.....does it fit the DS? I can't understand why DASA, Proteck, Rage all run that pipe but I like it. Help me remember the options please.
Ron Woods
FMF
HMF
Rossier
Motoworks
That it?
ml450r
02-28-2009, 03:56 PM
I race at HLR all the time, Did you race there last year.
Merrill Crose
#12
TNT1, i have got a ROTAX stage 2 engine kit...this comprises of a complete head with cams, adj. cam sprockets, larger intake tube, larger injector, 50mm throttle body, stiffer clutch springs, high comp piston, 3 diff thickness base gaskets(required for determining squish). I have also got the PC3, Velocity airfilter and Motoworks SR4 Carbon full system. 15t front sprocket and 39t rear...
I will let you guys know how she runs...i am really excited..
I will also be doing my cam mod on a stock head to see the diff between the 2...
Will keep u posted....
Yeah we were there. You know Jason and his bro then? I'll look you up were in a huge black 46' fifth wheel. Jason's a cool dude the guy that runs the series we are going to catch him and his bro on thier home track in A Expert on the DS this season .....tell him TNT said that he knows us lol. Terry(dad, me) and Trever Portier #101..Man if it wasn't for him having a YAM ball joint we would had never made Loretta Lynn weekend after. Oh Merril how you like your PEPs I just ordered some for the 09 DS...
DGS, 3 base gaskets, really why? You do a Rage motor? We know Dee. Are you running Web cams? 50mm TB cool! Are you running the next bigger BRP injector I need to order it next week. You got a custom intake and got rid of all the rubber? Where you get your clutch springs is the lever hard?...I got to get some order way to go to be safe Adj cam sprockets sound like the way to go I will too.....15/39 why, 09 stock is 13/38.
ml450r
02-28-2009, 04:47 PM
Yes, I know Jason and Jeff. I have been racing with them for years. I remember Trevor racing there last year. I think he was on a black Yamaha. I was on a red Honda. I ran the pro-am and the +30. Jason is a great guy, he is doing an awesome job on the amatuer championship series. He has done alot for getting racers together in this area.
I have only ran Axis, Elka and PEP. The PEP's are by far the best shock i have ever used. I don't know if they are the best but they work great for me.
Here is a video of a race from last year. The first moto I got out front and it is boring, The second moto part shows me chasing Jason.
http://media.putfile.com/Grain-valley-race
Originally posted by TNT1
Yeah we were there. You know Jason and his bro then? I'll look you up were in a huge black 46' fifth wheel. Jason's a cool dude the guy that runs the series we are going to catch him and his bro on thier home track in A Expert on the DS this season .....tell him TNT said that he knows us lol. Terry(dad, me) and Trever Portier #101..Man if it wasn't for him having a YAM ball joint we would had never made Loretta Lynn weekend after. Oh Merril how you like your PEPs I just ordered some for the 09 DS...
DGS, 3 base gaskets, really why? You do a Rage motor? We know Dee. Are you running Web cams? 50mm TB cool! Are you running the next bigger BRP injector I need to order it next week. You got a custom intake and got rid of all the rubber? Where you get your clutch springs is the lever hard?...I got to get some order way to go to be safe Adj cam sprockets sound like the way to go I will too.....15/39 why, 09 stock is 13/38.
The 3 base gaskets are all diff thicknesses. I would be able to adjust the squish...u only use 1 gasket..!!!
Its not a rage motor, i did all the work myself...bought the Rotax kit and did the installation..The larger intake is between the throttle body and head and houses the injector. It is the next biggest injector from BRP.. Clutch springs came with ROTAX kit. The clutch is a bit stiffer..... I am sure stock on the 09 is 14/39
I know the rear is deff a 39t..08 was a 42t rear..
Will keep u posted..
Cool video Merrill…where do you get those helmet cams? I want one is there a way I can watch it live from Trever’s helmet when I can’t make the race? You got a good memory tho I can’t remember yesterday more less 6 months ago lol…..Yea he was on an old black YAM, we broke a ball joint, tie rod and spent Saturday night swapping arms just go to LL and brake a nurf bar attach fitting in the first A moto, but the Snapp’s lent us one. Frustrating when you can’t hold your quad together to get through a race but as you guy's get advanced like this it's more expensive to keep the quad together. I hope the DS treats us better we'll see if it holds together will all the new power. But we have some talented racers in the mid-west, you guy’s were all fun to watch and fast in the pro-am class. Track is a fast one too. I’m looking forward to this seasons race.
DGS I didn’t know BRP offered engine kits…and thanks for getting me straight on sprockets I tried to count the little teeth but I need to adjust my glasses lol! I’ll count it again. But if you go up in the front from stock you’ll get less bottom end is that what you want?
I’m guessing your going to get around 55 WHP unloaded on the dyno and around 34 in torque…….How much do you want? It’s a light quad too. How much you weigh DGS, my boy is 165.
ml450r
03-01-2009, 08:01 AM
That is a go pro helmet cam, I bought mine off ebay. The picture quality is much better on your own computer. When you load to youtube or putfile it looks like crap.
Making it broadcast live would be really cool...lol
The video is pretty cool...nice track..
Yip it will change my bottom end but the way i ride might be better...!! I had the same gearing on my 08 and it made less power but it felt good..!! I dont know until i give her a burn on the track..!!!!
I weigh 76kg which i think is around 170lbs.. so pretty similar in weight.. I dont think it will be that much but i am hoping for around 48 - 50HP on this dyno..!!! As u know they all read differently..!!
crixal
03-01-2009, 09:25 AM
tnt, is the stillwater race this weekend? if it is, what day are you racing and what are you riding?
Originally posted by crixal
tnt, is the stillwater race this weekend? if it is, what day are you racing and what are you riding?
It's next weekend, Trever my son will be there Friday before dawn.......I got to work Sat then I'm coming down. I'll post pics of our rig later today so you know who we are......DS not ready so we will be on a old YAM getting it dialed in all day today. Hope to meet you. Terry
Oh practice Saturday race Sunday at 10am. #101 in A-Expert and Pro-am, Trever Portier
crixal
03-01-2009, 10:06 AM
ya, i'm gonna go. you guys are racing saturday? could you give me the address to the place so i can print a mapquest?
Here ya go, one of the best tracks in the mid-west. Race Sunday at 10 lots of fast guys in the pro class fun to watch.
http://www.cooperlandusa.com/
Directions at top of page.
Originally posted by ds450racer
you pretty much have the british mmx championship which is the top class along with the european. Then there are are normal clubs where you have the pro class ,expert,intermediate then beginner class. an average race you will see about 120 riders there. You do have different clubs for different areas. Like there the scottish championship, southern championship ,irish etc.
Not really sure about enduro. I think its pretty much the same kind of thing.
How was the MX practice day..? Wish i was there...!!!
I am looking to get rid of my 8" rims for my DS. I have got Razr mx on DWT beadlocks and want to get 9" rims for enduro..!!!
Would you be interested..? Maybe trade if you have 9" rims..? They are in really good nick and the tires are still perfect..
Originally posted by crixal
ya, i'm gonna go. you guys are racing saturday? could you give me the address to the place so i can print a mapquest?
Heres some pics of our rig come find us and say hello!! Soon it will have a free Can am wrap(huge graphics wrapped around the back, a $3-4,000 value) with all our sponsors/number and race photo on it. Now who else is doing that for privateers?
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk191/Terrylport/RV1.jpg
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk191/Terrylport/RV11.jpg
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk191/Terrylport/RV12.jpg
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk191/Terrylport/RV13.jpg
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk191/Terrylport/RV16.jpg:
ml450r
03-03-2009, 08:33 PM
Nice looking race rig....Did someone not get the message to you about the economy being in bad shape..lol
X400EX
03-03-2009, 08:40 PM
Damn man, that thing is huge!!!!
That's the best looking rig I ever seen.:)
Originally posted by ml450r
Nice looking race rig....Did someone not get the message to you about the economy being in bad shape..lol
Yeah they did hook up w/my boy(or if you know someone in KS) for the ATVA MX nationals, (he'll put an A class DS on the podium too) so we can split gas man, PM me if interested, or at least pit together have fun!!......otherwise see you at the nats or HLR, I got to work lots or overtime to pay the bills ...LMAO! :D...but I will be at HLR some nats that are close, LL for sure!
The back as another queen bed(electric slide down) w/your name on it and the kitchen table folds to a twin if you got a buddy(two queen beds and a twin and full kitchen)...we can fit the cart and 4-6 quads in back....we got all the tooling, welder, you name it, shop on wheels!
See all young people go to school it pays off get an education in math and science then one day you can give this to your kids. The American education pays off! Work hard now while your young forget the parties you will reap the benefits later, trust me! :)
andiboy123
03-03-2009, 09:30 PM
Originally posted by TNT1
Yeah they did hook up w/my boy(or if you know someone in KS) for the ATVA MX nationals, (he'll put an A class DS on the podium too) so we can split gas man, PM me if interested, or at least pit together have fun!!......otherwise see you at the nats or HLR, I got to work lots or overtime to pay the bills ...LMAO! :D...but I will be at HLR some nats that are close, LL for sure!
The back as another queen bed(electric slide down) w/your name on it and the kitchen table folds to a twin if you got a buddy(two queen beds and a twin and full kitchen)...we can fit the cart and 4-6 quads in back....we got all the tooling, welder, you name it, shop on wheels!
See all young people go to school it pays off get an education in math and science then one day you can give this to your kids. The American education pays off! Work hard now while your young forget the parites you will reep the benefits later! :)
TNT IS THE MEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
crixal
03-04-2009, 06:52 AM
tnt, check your PMs.
Originally posted by crixal
tnt, check your PMs.
Tried to respond your box is full. See the 2009-9 Service Bullitin thread. :D
andiboy123
03-04-2009, 09:42 AM
hey tnt that sensor on the air box ? i just took it out of the box and plug it back , its that ok ? or that will afect something on my engine?
ds450racer
03-04-2009, 10:32 AM
Originally posted by DGS
How was the MX practice day..? Wish i was there...!!!
I am looking to get rid of my 8" rims for my DS. I have got Razr mx on DWT beadlocks and want to get 9" rims for enduro..!!!
Would you be interested..? Maybe trade if you have 9" rims..? They are in really good nick and the tires are still perfect..
hey, yeah the practice day was really good. one of the fastest mx tracks ive ever been on! I have a got a set of stock 9 inch wheels i can swap if you want. let me know if you want to and ill bring them to margate.
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