Fix My Frame Brp!! Still In Shop!! [Archive]

ProspectorJim

01-20-2009, 05:08 PM

Originally posted by crixal
hondarider has all the room in the world to talk. he has the most high tech 450r on the makert. they're so fast off the show room floor they can pull half a quad on a piped z400. if you put a pipe, intake, cam, and dyno tune into one you can run dead even w/ a BONE STOCK ds. it's so amazing it can go unchanged for 3 years and still be on top. that quad has no limits.

don't forget the bold new graphics that are added every year.

crixal

01-20-2009, 06:37 PM

how could i forget striking new orange & white color scheme! it makes me drool everytime! maybe they'll produce something worth talking about in 2013.

deathcorefan2

01-20-2009, 06:59 PM

Originally posted by crixal
how could i forget striking new orange & white color scheme! it makes me drool everytime! maybe they'll produce something worth talking about in 2013.

actually, they should be updating frame, EFI, and other things in 2010.

kellymi

01-20-2009, 06:59 PM

Read a test on Honda's new 450 dirt bike with their newfangled 450 engine. Funny thing was that it was actually slower then the old one!:eek: Although I do have to say that their new 450 engine looks really compact when you compare it to the old one.

outtagas

01-20-2009, 07:21 PM

Yes i did make a mistake - i got a lemon. The other ds 450 x mx on the floor beside it had a frame that was bolted together straight.

I'll try to be positive - here it goes... The ds 450 x mx is really light like you will not believe. My ltr 450 is a tank in comparison, even lighter than the old yfz 450.

hotshotgoal30

01-20-2009, 08:01 PM

dude i got a buddy with a honda 450 that cant go riding in the winter cuz his **** wont start unless he parks it next to the propane heater in his garage. not me though that fuel injection starts her up every time. dont come on here tellng me ours are junk when all manufactorers have problems. honda is reliable ill give them that

ProspectorJim

01-20-2009, 08:06 PM

Originally posted by hondarider11
While you guys are fixing your big ugly piles of junk I am riding my honda. Tell me how the can am is so ungodly amazing when they finished terrible this year in the nationals and a honda finished second? Hmm maybe becuase a factory team cant get their junk to run long enough and a privateer can smoke them.

You came into the ds450 section and called the bike a piece of junk. What did you expect smartguy?

Also I'm not fixing anything on my ds...

WesDS450X

01-20-2009, 08:08 PM

Honda is very gay, slowest 450 in class infact.

deathcorefan2

01-20-2009, 08:23 PM

Originally posted by WesDS450X
Honda is very gay, slowest 450 in class infact.

honda isnt gay, im not saying that because i have a 400ex. i havent had this 400ex long..actually i have only ridden it twice. but all of the 450s are rider dependant. they are all pretty much equal because it relys so much on rider.

...still dont see how that makes them gay?

still i would buy an outlaw over any of them any day. lol

kellymi

01-20-2009, 08:26 PM

Very true. Those 09 outlaws are nice. That was my first choice, but it came down to money which is why I got the DS.

crixal

01-20-2009, 08:30 PM

nothing is wrong w/ the r, besides it's plain & simple. some people like that though. i was just in a defensive mood. in all reality, an owner of a 450r who has any common sense knows the ds>450r.

ProspectorJim

01-20-2009, 08:35 PM

I almost got a 450r instead of my ds, the handling is what won me over. There is no other stock bike that handles anywhere near as good as the ds450. The looks grow on you after a while too. I couldn't be happier with my ds and to tell you the truth I'm glad I didn't get the r. Not having to gusset my frame is a bonus too.

Also... FIX HIS FRAME BRP!!!!

TNT

01-21-2009, 02:44 AM

Honda's are not that reliable, my buddies with modded ones have to replace thier cranks 1-2 a season and other OEM parts fail as often as any. I've seen them break down as much as any quad at nationals which is pretty pathetic if you consider the amount of time they have had to get their act together vs DS one season! I think they focused on their bike this year 450efi hopefully their quad needs an update next year 09's are not competitive in EFI, weight(al frame technology), overall stock "race ready", what you get for cost. You can make the DS a pro level quad w/killer motor, shocks, for under 13.5K(2k motor, 2k shocks, 500 Precision steering stab) at 360lbs paying full retail you cant the honda. KTM same thing. Thats why we are seeing in dip in sales on them and increase in DS and KTM, most agree are the best "out of the box" quads in 09. They do make good power modded that comes on strong but at a weight disadvantage to the DS and that weight pays a toll on the quad as a whole. I miss their rigs and support at the nationals too????? oh and their quad race team, they really do a lot for this sport and their pro racers thats why most smart ones quit and go to Can Am...IE: Ironman Natalie for one...they took a BIG loss there! 20 yr vet peoples choice pro....who by the way raced all season with one eye and tore rotator cuff! He didn't even make the banquet since he is trying to heal for next season! Miller 1st yr in pro 11 I beleive excellent, Lawson 5th overall was it, not bad at all for a first year quad.

I think BRP is avoiding your frame like a plague since they know the only fix is to send it back to the factory and replace the frame or give you a new quad.....any OEM would be procrastinating, searching hard for a less costly dealer fix and their assy jigs before they build more be patient....actually sending it back is probably not even an option not worth the man hours to fix or line time, salvage parts(well actually they cant used parts it's a total loss 7, 500 dealer cost to them) and give you a new one makes more sense... I would not take anything less since you have no way to verify the frame is straight....hope they do it soon!

Sorry I cant explain my view points in two sentences..:D

hotshotgoal30

01-21-2009, 07:14 AM

the honda name itself is reliable. there is no arguing that. i grew up on 3 wheelers that i sometimes think could take more abuse and more miles than any quad today. but with that they have flaws. like i said my buddy has a 450r that wont start in the cold unless he parks near a heater or sprays some eather in it and its only a year old and he treats it like its the last one on earth. he also has a honda racing package? with a different cam that the dealer put in and already after about a season and a half of not even racing just riding he is looking to freshen up his top end. honda is also a little slow on the whole technology thing, i mean look at their utilities. up untill not long ago and maybe even still on some they use drum brakes. they also never put differential locks on the 4x4s until the rincon i belive and independent rear suspension was unheard of on there utilities back when polaris owned that market.

ds450racer

01-21-2009, 08:48 AM

everyon keeps saying the can ams are pieces of junk because they keep breakin down but i think what most people are forgetting they have only been raced for one season. last year was the first time they was properly ran and if you ask me i think they did pretty good. Hondas have been out for years now and are still blowing gearboxes.

hotshotgoal30

01-21-2009, 09:22 AM

agreed. they just started! you would think that by now for how long they have had their machines out yamaha and honda would be number one all the time. lol give us a chance we are right on the brink of number 1

WesDS450X

01-21-2009, 10:19 AM

if BRP isnt gona fix your frame, and you didnt damage the frame file a law suit then, if you win you can buy us all 09 mx's =]

coryatver

01-21-2009, 10:28 AM

Originally posted by hotshotgoal30
my buddy has a 450r that wont start in the cold unless he parks near a heater or sprays some eather in it and its only a year old and he treats it like its the last one on earth.

He needs to jet it. It is lean becuase of the cold weather and they are already lean from the factory to pass epa emissions. Mine fires up in -10 F. And the nice thing is you don't need a 400 dollar controller just a couple 2 dollar jets.

Good luck getting your frame fixed. Can am spends so much money to market there product and it seems like from there ads they really care about there customers but from what I see from there customer service its all a lie just to get you to buy there junk.

And its well known fact that the can am is the most under powered 450 out there.

hotshotgoal30

01-21-2009, 11:06 AM

Originally posted by coryatver
He needs to jet it. It is lean becuase of the cold weather and they are already lean from the factory to pass epa emissions. Mine fires up in -10 F. And the nice thing is you don't need a 400 dollar controller just a couple 2 dollar jets.

Good luck getting your frame fixed. Can am spends so much money to market there product and it seems like from there ads they really care about there customers but from what I see from there customer service its all a lie just to get you to buy there junk.

And its well known fact that the can am is the most under powered 450 out there.

you act like having a controller is a bad thing? how about the tuning you can do ith having fuel injection? just because you probably have a honda or something that doesnt have FI. but guess what in about a year all 450's will so what will you say then? can-am was just ahead of the others in utting it on their 450. also dont get me started on the customer service. i have had no problems with can am waranty. thats more than i can say for yamahas and polaris i have owned. and its a far reach to say junk when they are the innovators. lol not only in the DS but how about the renegade 800? when whatever company you stand behind can produce something like the rnegade 800 come back and talk to me. otherwise i dont expect to be hearing from you in a long time

OutlawBill

01-21-2009, 11:23 AM

Originally posted by coryatver
And its well known fact that the can am is the most under powered 450 out there.

That is a dumb thing To say. The DS450 has all the power it needed too win the WORCS Championship and there race is a lot harder on engines than MX or Desert racing. You have to make power for 90 minutes of a cross of MX, XC and Desert racing to win.

TNT

01-21-2009, 11:51 AM

Don't let these anti-DS comments from people bother you many don't understand the power to weight ratio and all the other factors that determine how good a race quad is…there are at least ten more I can list without even thinking much. Got to wonder why if these people think it's such junk they are even out here…any time a company steps beyond the current technology there is always more of a learning curve, the AL frame is one of them, especially in their inaugural year.

Lets focus on our better our products not defending them. There is nothing we can do out here for the frame issue, please take it up with Can am.

hotshotgoal30

01-21-2009, 01:42 PM

yeah i suppose we cant. i just wonder do hese people think that honda, kawasaki, olaris and especially yamaha would just hand over a free quad in the same situation? do they thing the cutomer service would be that much better in the same situation? i highly doubt it

LT-R450 131

01-23-2009, 02:51 PM

They should change the name to Honda vs Can am LOL

I personaily like both the same the only quad that I don't like is the yamaha haha but ya the only reason I'm planning on getting a 450r after my ltr is becuase of how easy it is to work on and how plan and simiple it is like someone said before

RATPACK Z400

01-23-2009, 09:23 PM

your down grading to the honda! and will be working on it just as much ,it has motor (crank)problems,frames that break so on and so on. your not gonna get better by switching brands,ha ha. I think the ds450,ltr450,ktm 450 and now yamaha are much better quads for racing mx than the honda 450,these companys offer what the racer want s in a quad. race quads from these companys are built pretty good not perfect but they UPDATE & IMPROVE there quads yearly!

LT-R450 131

01-23-2009, 09:52 PM

I would never get a stock 450r the one imma get is fully built so is better than my ltr. if I could choose I would get the ktm or the ds xmx but don't have that kind of money and u are right but whatever works out to be better for me imma get, u know

Quadevil

01-23-2009, 09:57 PM

Originally posted by ProspectorJim
There is no other stock bike that handles anywhere near as good as the ds450.

Except KTM SX. That is the best sport quad of the moment. Handles better than any other, better suspension, most power stock, best build quality, best brakes period!!
Yes the DS X MX is close but still can't touch the KTM.

outtagas

01-29-2009, 12:07 PM

New frame coming maybe in march. Been waiting since november 11 -2008 for my quad to be fixed.

Hope your can ams keep running guys.

hotshotgoal30

01-29-2009, 01:59 PM

why wouldnt they run? your having frame problems not running problems. and you are getting a new frame so wny are you complaining. thats awesome. so they didnt completly stick it to you. you wouldnt have gotten a better result with any other company i assure you that.

TNT

01-29-2009, 02:07 PM

Yeah eventually all the manus will be dealing with it, yam will now, al is a beast to keep straight…..real temp sensitive. Glad to hear your getting a new frame!

ds450racer

01-29-2009, 02:14 PM

Originally posted by Quadevil
Except KTM SX. That is the best sport quad of the moment. Handles better than any other, better suspension, most power stock, best build quality, best brakes period!!
Yes the DS X MX is close but still can't touch the KTM.
Where are you gettin that the ktm is a better quad? They're heavier, shocks are worse and if you ask me look like a suzuki.
And you dont see any ktm teams on the mx track.
Sorry if ive upset anyone with a ktm but i just think there overrated.

JAKELTR450

01-29-2009, 08:19 PM

i thought the sx was lighter than the ds mx? are you sure the ds mx weighs more than a sx wet.
the sx weight is around 365 wet?
how much is the ds mx wet not the regular ds?

ProspectorJim

01-29-2009, 08:39 PM

Originally posted by JAKELTR450
i thought the sx was lighter than the ds mx? are you sure the ds mx weighs more than a sx wet.
the sx weight is around 365 wet?
how much is the ds mx wet not the regular ds?

The x mx is right around 360lbs dry and the ktm is 365 lbs dry.

The weight isn't the only thing that makes the ds handle better. The whole front end design gives it the best handling stock.

TNT

01-29-2009, 11:43 PM

Originally posted by ProspectorJim
The x mx is right around 360lbs dry and the ktm is 365 lbs dry.

The weight isn't the only thing that makes the ds handle better. The whole front end design gives it the best handling stock.

Actually the dry weight of the 09 EFI X MX is 345, taken right off the website. About a $2,300 difference in retail price difference too....put that in the DS motor for a 58+HP motor and IMO DS wins hands down! KTM is a good quad dont get me wrong I almost bought one, but now that I have seen the and come to understand the EFI I am glad I chose DS. Already PC5 auto tune is on its way for the DS w a o2 sensor keeping the quad at 14:1:1 on the track at all times which a carb cannot do. I also checked on part cost for the KTM very expensive and since there will only be about 2,000 in the market this year hard to get a hold of. Fist year MX quad we dont know what to expect, problem wise w/the quad all go through growing pains and the DS has and still is but it has more mx history. It will be interesting to see what pros ride the KTM this season and if they put support at the nats.

deathcorefan2

01-29-2009, 11:47 PM

Originally posted by TNT1
Actually the dry weight of the 09 EFI X MX is 345, taken right off the website. About a $2,300 difference in retail price difference too....put that in the DS motor for a 58+HP motor and IMO DS wins hands down! KTM is a good quad, dont get me wrong I almost bought on but now that I have seen the and come to understand the EFI I am glad I chose DS. Already PC5 auto tune is on its way for the DS w a o2 sensor keeping the quad at 14:1:1 on the track at all times which a carb cannot do. I also checked on part cost for the KTM very expensive and since there will be about 2,000 in the market this year hard to get a hold off. It will be interesting to see what pros ride the KTM this season and if they put support at the nats.

it was a fact that can am lied about the weight. they weighed quads in a shootout once and everyone was true to weight but can am.

TNT

01-29-2009, 11:50 PM

Originally posted by deathcorefan2
it was a fact that can am lied about the weight. they weighed quads in a shootout once and everyone was true to weight but can am.

Ill weigh mine for kicks. I got the motor out and I swear I can pick it up with two fingers. :D

Blizzard24

01-30-2009, 04:24 AM

Originally posted by deathcorefan2
it was a fact that can am lied about the weight. they weighed quads in a shootout once and everyone was true to weight but can am.

If you are refering to the ATVSport shootout weights, it was Yamaha that was lying about the weight of the YFZ450, not Can Am.

TNT

01-30-2009, 07:36 AM

Other big myth out there is EFI takes a PC nurd to work on and I was leary myself, but now after learning more about it is quite simple, moreso than a carb imo…To troubleshoot you can do simply resistant/voltage checks at the ECM(or the dealer can attach and find fault codes fast using software). I just ordered a ECM adapter so I can do it myself by probing with a typical miltimeter. This single point electronic method of troubleshooting is much more convenient. There's no idle speed to adjust, jetting for different weather, and the EFI system is very efficient and reliable. To carry xtra sensors about $375 for the full system(not including ECM), not bad at all!

But the added value of the DS EFI system installed is about $1500.

ProspectorJim

01-30-2009, 12:58 PM

Originally posted by TNT1
Actually the dry weight of the 09 EFI X MX is 345, taken right off the website. About a $2,300 difference in retail price difference too....put that in the DS motor for a 58+HP motor and IMO DS wins hands down! KTM is a good quad dont get me wrong I almost bought one, but now that I have seen the and come to understand the EFI I am glad I chose DS. Already PC5 auto tune is on its way for the DS w a o2 sensor keeping the quad at 14:1:1 on the track at all times which a carb cannot do. I also checked on part cost for the KTM very expensive and since there will only be about 2,000 in the market this year hard to get a hold of. Fist year MX quad we dont know what to expect, problem wise w/the quad all go through growing pains and the DS has and still is but it has more mx history. It will be interesting to see what pros ride the KTM this season and if they put support at the nats.

The x mx is not 345. That is the weight for the regular Ds450. The x mx weighs around 360 because of the added parts.

deathcorefan2

01-30-2009, 01:33 PM

Originally posted by Blizzard24
If you are refering to the ATVSport shootout weights, it was Yamaha that was lying about the weight of the YFZ450, not Can Am.

hmm..i could have sworn it was can-am..
my mistake.

Quadevil

01-30-2009, 01:57 PM

Originally posted by ds450racer
Where are you gettin that the ktm is a better quad? They're heavier, shocks are worse and if you ask me look like a suzuki.
And you dont see any ktm teams on the mx track.
Sorry if ive upset anyone with a ktm but i just think there overrated.

We'll see when the shootouts come, what is the best. Last year, ktm xc won 95% of shootouts and this SX is better than XC.
Meanwhile you can read this
http://atvillustrated.com/articles/12218

About weight, once and for all, ktm doesnt give a dry weight on their machines, only wet (without fuel). That's why people confuse everything.
All the sport 450's, after adding shock oil, battery acid, coolant, engine oil etc, KTM XC is the lightest quad in the market and so is the SX period!

http://i43.tinypic.com/21nr2h0.jpg

This is from Quads Xtreme Mag. Watch the red rectangle for weight. This was taken, using proper equipment. "Lleno" means wet weight with fuel.

DS450 - 369.27lbs
TRX450 - 392.42lbs
KFX450 - 394.62lbs
MXR450 - 407.85lbs
KTM XC - 365.96lbs

KTM 450SX weights 365lbs wet. I want to see the DS 450 X MX wet :rolleyes:
Don't forget that the X MX hasn't that AL a-arms like the XC etc :D

Also, KTM 450SX reads 46hp in the dyno, bone stock! take baffle out, jdjet kit in carb and snorkel out and you're near 50hp as ltr311 can tell you.
i want to see the DS...

TNT

01-30-2009, 02:18 PM

You didnt covert KG to pounds right....Not a lot of difference in weight to talk of but price, $2300 retail, EFI system $1500, thats $3800....tell how the KTM makes that number up?

Hydraulic clutch, what else? Motor 6-8 hp whats that worth, a pipe, air filter, pink wire cut, maybe some cam grinds at best.....$1000 tops there. New DS pipe half the weight of stock.....

TNT

01-30-2009, 02:36 PM

Got to hand it to KTM tho thats a pretty good weight using a steel frame...question is will it need gusseting like all the others did. I like steel since its simpler to weld but also like the replaceable aluminum sections of the DS. The DS hi-lok fasteners are super strong but if your not carefull you can over size the hole replacing them....Thats the only bummer about the DS frame is carry al sections on hand or weld al which I suck at. AL welds are just as strong as steel but the surronding metal gets weaker than the weld in both cases, stock case on the KTM why you need gussets.

ProspectorJim

01-30-2009, 02:47 PM

I find it very hard to believe that magazines like Quad ,and the others, would neglect to mention that the ktm is weighed wet and that they all mistakenly label the ds450 the lightest...

TNT

01-30-2009, 02:51 PM

Your not comparing quads to quads here anyway. You need to set the performance level of the quads equal then compare weight and cost. From there factor in reliability, maintainablity to include part cost and maintenance hours.

TNT

01-30-2009, 02:55 PM

Originally posted by TNT1
Your not comparing quads to quads here anyway. You need to set the performance level of the quads equal then compare weight and cost. From there factor in reliability, maintainablity to include part cost and maintenance hours.

Oh and Jim good point from there have a independant company do the report. Not data from a mag sales perspective.

TNT

01-30-2009, 02:59 PM

There is not enough data on the DS moreso the KTM at this point in time to compare. YAM to Hon would be better.

Quadevil

01-30-2009, 04:26 PM

Originally posted by TNT1
You didnt covert KG to pounds right....Not a lot of difference in weight to talk of but price, $2300 retail, EFI system $1500, thats $3800....tell how the KTM makes that number up?

Hydraulic clutch, what else? Motor 6-8 hp whats that worth, a pipe, air filter, pink wire cut, maybe some cam grinds at best.....$1000 tops there. New DS pipe half the weight of stock.....

The Kg to pounds were converted correctly. OK now i added the 0,00....lol
1Kg - 2.20262262lbs

You guys are hard to convince heh? about the weight of the KTM's. Once and for all, here it is OFFICIAL wet weight without fuel ONLY! -> XC http://www.ktmatv.com/fileadmin/atv/_media/pdf/KTM_ATV_folder.pdf
SX http://www.ktmatv.com/fileadmin/atv/_media/pdf/KTM_Folder_ATVsx_td_SX_en.pdf

The 345lbs dry weight in the Can-Am site for the DS 450 X MX is veryyy wrong...

TNT

01-30-2009, 04:58 PM

Your arguing over 3.31 lbs? My farts are heavier than that after a good burrito....lol!

I got truck scales down the road if I had my motor in Id go weigh the 09 mx.

TNT

01-30-2009, 05:05 PM

What pro is racin KTM next season?

TNT

01-30-2009, 05:13 PM

Wtf LANGUAGE IS THAT CHART IN AND WHERE DID IT COME FROM. I cant even read it does it say DS 165, 5....or 165.5? whats with the comma? lol!

TNT

01-30-2009, 05:27 PM

Anyway I get 368.93 not 369.27 if the chart says 165.5kg DS.......unless my calculator needs new batts. :D

Im out have fun DS vs KTM....:rolleyes:

Quadevil

01-30-2009, 06:17 PM

Originally posted by TNT1
Your arguing over 3.31 lbs? My farts are heavier than that after a good burrito....lol!

I got truck scales down the road if I had my motor in Id go weigh the 09 mx.

Farts? that says everything man...
Wining is wining be it by 0.1s or 0.1lbs period!
Please weigh you MX on a proper scale and put a print in here.

What pro is racin KTM next season?
In MX, none i think. Than means anything? lol instead read and listen what pro's say about the SX.

Wtf LANGUAGE IS THAT CHART IN AND WHERE DID IT COME FROM. I cant even read it does it say DS 165, 5....or 165.5? whats with the comma? lol!

It's Spanish and it came from Quads Xtreme Magazine. In SI units, you use comma "," in the numbers not "."

Here you have some more, from same Mag and i changed the language so you understand. Equipment used: Stalker ATS radar (if you know what it is, you know its good). Using the same pilot in all quads.
http://i40.tinypic.com/297qpx.jpg

I don't want to continue arguing and going very offtopic in this thread, both quads are great. I believe strongly that KTM is better, not much but still better.

Have fun!

Quadevil

01-30-2009, 06:25 PM

Originally posted by TNT1
Anyway I get 368.93 not 369.27 if the chart says 165.5kg DS.......unless my calculator needs new batts. :D

Im out have fun DS vs KTM....:rolleyes:

That's 167,5Kg not 165,5Kg...

fastford

02-01-2009, 05:22 PM

Had my DS in a scale at some grass drags the other weekend and it was 363 full of fuel.

extremeblastr

02-02-2009, 04:37 PM

nate morello will be back at the nats after fully recovering from his accident last year on a KTM and i believe lawson (who if i remember correctly was canams top finisher) is abandoning the machine for this year.

TNT

02-02-2009, 04:48 PM

Originally posted by extremeblastr
nate morello will be back at the nats after fully recovering from his accident last year on a KTM and i believe lawson (who if i remember correctly was canams top finisher) is abandoning the machine for this year.

Interesting, whos nate sorry for being dumb here but that sound great, KTM needs a good racer...I wish them the best good quad...

I thought Lawson has a two yr contract like Natalie and Miller? I hope those two help dial it in next season.

Lets stop bashing quads they are both good in their own right and we should be happy to have them BOTH in the sport....was a day not too long ago it was just Hon and Yam for the most part...More the better drives the prices down and quality up by competition to us the end users....