Standard Rear Axle VS. IRS...in xc racing

[iwannaride202]

Ok....I've read many of theorys on here about how much better IRS is with maybe an exception in the dunes...well I race xc here in WV which is known for its treacherous terrain...do u really think an IRS quad would give me faster lap times...I've always said a straight axle quad would be faster but with all my reading i've been doing im not so sure now...the reason i'm asking is i've really been considering getting a ktm525xc for next year but now am pondering on the honda xx....sorry i just dont like polaris but thats just me...but why do the polaris gncc racers still run a standard rear axle if irs is so much better...I'm not saying the irs is bad either i've just always thought it would be awesome for trail riding but not so much for racing and i'm just curious on what u guys think...thanx for any info....

[smo0oth1]

I honestly believe you could turn better lap times on a IRS machine if you would forget your SA driving habits and relearn riding on a IRS.

[GE4x4]

A B class or higher racer will be faster on a SRA quad then a IRS quad. 2 reasons, they handle better and there a lot lighter. A C class or a racer who can not practice much, will be faster on a IRS. The reason, they will not wear out as fast as the IRS won't beat you up. The IRS has it's place, but in XC racing the weight and handeling will slow it down. Also, a 525xc wet is only about 380lbs, while the 700xx is 505 lbs. That is huge in racing (except desert) On a side note, the Outlaw 525s and the KTM525 have parts in common, yet a $4000 price difference.:eek:

[deathcorefan2]

Originally posted by GE4x4
A B class or higher racer will be faster on a SRA quad then a IRS quad. 2 reasons, they handle better and there a lot lighter. A C class or a racer who can not practice much, will be faster on a IRS. The reason, they will not wear out as fast as the IRS won't beat you up. The IRS has it's place, but in XC racing the weight and handeling will slow it down. Also, a 525xc wet is only about 380lbs, while the 700xx is 505 lbs. That is huge in racing (except desert) On a side note, the Outlaw 525s and the KTM525 have parts in common, yet a $4000 price difference.:eek:

i agree there about the KTM and the Polaris.

i love the KTMs but for the price its just dumb.

Polaris comes with fox shocks and razrs. is it really worth that much for better shocks? i say no.

[iwannaride202]

Originally posted by GE4x4
A B class or higher racer will be faster on a SRA quad then a IRS quad. 2 reasons, they handle better and there a lot lighter. A C class or a racer who can not practice much, will be faster on a IRS. The reason, they will not wear out as fast as the IRS won't beat you up. The IRS has it's place, but in XC racing the weight and handeling will slow it down. Also, a 525xc wet is only about 380lbs, while the 700xx is 505 lbs. That is huge in racing (except desert) On a side note, the Outlaw 525s and the KTM525 have parts in common, yet a $4000 price difference.:eek:

See thats what i kinda figured...I race A class and am leaning toward a straight axle quad...just dont know anyone with a sport bike with irs that i can test out...i know the dealers will let u take them on a little test ride but not the same as comparing lap times in a racing situation....

[posterboy12]

I agree with smooth and GE. I have not raced the 700xx, but I have ridden it on a few tracks. You will not like it at first if you are an A class rider...not one little bit. You SRA axle guys get way to use to the handling features of an SRA. Your lap times will go way down at first and you will be very unhappy with it. If you can get yourself past the SRA and teach yourself to be a rookie child like you are just learning to walk again you will teach yourself how to ride the IRS. On a smooth dry track the SRA will kill an IRS. On a rough or wet track the IRS will shine. Think of turning as a dirt oval track racing -vs- Oval drifting racing. It takes allot more technique to corner an IRS properly than a SRA. After riding mine around our track I was doing pretty good and then I jumped on my buddies Suzuki 450 and hated it. It just came around way to easy because I was use to the IRS. As for jumping... I will take the IRS any day. There is allot of spinning going on with a SRA and with the IRS there is allot of tracktion.

[J Caster]

I have not raced back east but I have owned and ridden both the KTM525 and the Honda 700. I would take the 700 over the 525 any day.

[OutlawBill]

I due not see IRS in XC racing unless GNCC changes the pro class too open cc. IRS rules in utility class and in desert and long distance rally racing the IRS is looking very good. The IRS will work in XC but it will take a change in riding stile. If you ride it like a SRA you will have troubles in tight turns pushing. The the IRS set up is too new, It will take time too get the correct A-arms and shock set-up. The SRA suspension configuration has over 30 years in R&D the IRS has 3 years.

[RATPACK Z400]

Irs will never beat out sra in cross country races handling IS everything in those races,only way that irs would handle better is to lower( if able to) and that defeats the purpose of it.If they were so fast the pros would be riding them!I,ll bet you,ll never see one win again,st a sra in the pro ranks.

[OzLinc]

Originally posted by RATPACK Z400
Irs will never beat out sra in cross country races handling IS everything in those races,only way that irs would handle better is to lower( if able to) and that defeats the purpose of it.If they were so fast the pros would be riding them!I,ll bet you,ll never see one win again,st a sra in the pro ranks.

............just don't get it do ya. IRS is a better technology. It has the potential for better handleing and faster times.

The fact no one has done it yet proves nothing.

[sprayedgt]

A IRS in the right application will be better in handling than a SRA. The design is used in most forms of racing. Look at the really good handling cars and most of them have IRS. You have more wheel travel and can tune the suspension better. The technology is only about 3 years old in the ATV world and the after market will catch up soon.

[RATPACK Z400]

Irs works the best in tropycar & trucks theres not no room to make it work on a quad, as it does on a larger vehicle as a car or truck theres more room for axles to move freely theres just not the room on quads for the angles which the axles need to be. and the weight of the irs quads will always hold it back.

[scuzz]

Originally posted by RATPACK Z400
Irs works the best in tropycar & trucks theres not no room to make it work on a quad, as it does on a larger vehicle as a car or truck theres more room for axles to move freely theres just not the room on quads for the angles which the axles need to be. and the weight of the irs quads will always hold it back.


Um...WAT? Angles? Axles moving freely?

These things (IRS Quads) are already kicking butt in desert races. Yeas, they are a LOT heavier than SRA quads but right now they've only been out a few years, give them ten years and I bet they'll be every bit as light as their solid axle primate relatives.

[OutlawBill]

Originally posted by RATPACK Z400
Irs works the best in tropycar & trucks theres not no room to make it work on a quad, as it does on a larger vehicle as a car or truck theres more room for axles to move freely theres just not the room on quads for the angles which the axles need to be. and the weight of the irs quads will always hold it back. check out min 2:03 in All American 110 video and see the IRS work better than the SA http://www.racevisions.org/racevisions-movies.htm

[RATPACK Z400]

In ten years yes, those sportute quads are only good for desert racing and trail riding they,ll never win agains,t sra quads in the woods or mx. TILL they get lighter & better handling ,then when they get better then you irs owners can rag on the sra owners .you watch the 700xx will dump the irs and go sra in the next year or two cause of low sales.Oh saw vid I did see the 700xx was winning means its better? rider has nothing to do with it,plus if you haven,t noticed at those desert events that 90% ride honda so the chance are pretty slim for someone that does,t ride one.

[scuzz]

Originally posted by RATPACK Z400
plus if you haven,t noticed at those desert events that 90% ride honda so the chance are pretty slim for someone that does,t ride one.


There were plenty of other quad manufacturers behind them. Not just Baja either...

[J Caster]

Originally posted by RATPACK Z400
you watch the 700xx will dump the irs and go sra in the next year or two cause of low sales.Oh saw vid I did see the 700xx was winning means its better? rider has nothing to do with it,plus if you haven,t noticed at those desert events that 90% ride honda so the chance are pretty slim for someone that does,t ride one.

Ok I've got some questions for you.

1. Why do you think Honda would dump the better IRS suspension for something that doesn't work as good?
Honda has spent a lot of R&D on this IRS and to just dump it after a year would be a waste when it works so good.

2. Are you saying that the 700xx in the video is not better even though it is winning?

3. Don't you think that 90% of desert riders choose Honda for a reason?

4. If those other quads were so much better than the Honda, then it shouldn't matter how many Hondas it is racing against because it would just pull away from the other 90% of the riders on the Hondas right?

Your post is confusing me because you say the 700xx and its IRS is not good, even though it is proving to be a winning quad. You want to blame the good race results on the fact that there are more Hondas than other quads in these races, yet if the other brands were as good as you say, then they shouldn't have any problem beating the 700xx. The fact is the 700xx and its IRS suspension work really well and it is a race winning quad.

Get some more guys on the IRS quads and I'm sure they will start winning stuff in xc racing soon.

As far as the mx stuff goes, I think the SRA quads will always be better due to less body roll and the stiffer rear suspension which helps with that type of cornering.

[Backstabber]

I dont understand why so many people are hating on the IRS. When I trail ride the ground clearence is key, not only that but the traction when hitting uneven terrain is awesome. I dont think IRS will make a real appearence in MX but as far XC and other trail riding this machine is where its at!:devil:

[RATPACK Z400]

i just read that all the 700xxs got beat by a hybrid 650 sra quad in one of those desert races,two most desert riders are still thinking honda has the best quads that dont brake down when really there no better NOW then any other brand. three honda pits honda owners in those desert races (be stupid not to ride a honda) they have the old reliablity thing going and will have that behind there name when it come to racing. Irs has its place ,but not in racing XC or MX plan and simple TIL they get better! I looked at that vid and you see that 700xx on two wheels the handling isn,t there without major mods!I dont hate IRS I just think people are putting these quads high up on a pedistool when they aren,t all that .and honda could put a turd with wheels on it and people would love it! cause it says honda.

[OzLinc]

You just cant be told anything can you........:rolleyes:

Did you read the whole race report?

[Backstabber]

Originally posted by RATPACK Z400
i just read that all the 700xxs got beat by a hybrid 650 sra quad in one of those desert races,two most desert riders are still thinking honda has the best quads that dont brake down when really there no better NOW then any other brand. three honda pits honda owners in those desert races (be stupid not to ride a honda) they have the old reliablity thing going and will have that behind there name when it come to racing. Irs has its place ,but not in racing XC or MX plan and simple TIL they get better! I looked at that vid and you see that 700xx on two wheels the handling isn,t there without major mods!I dont hate IRS I just think people are putting these quads high up on a pedistool when they aren,t all that .and honda could put a turd with wheels on it and people would love it! cause it says honda.
Haha, are you kidding. My opinion isn't biased at all. I've ridden so many quads. Literally all different sizes from all manufacturers. I like what honda has to offer. I own a XX and I love it. I'm really not trying to justify my buy or anything. I think the raptor 700R is badass too, I was looking for that ground clearence and now I have a monster quad with a huge powerful bore. Its awesome!:devil:

[scuzz]

Originally posted by RATPACK Z400
blah blah blah blah blah troll garbage blah blah blah blah blah troll garbage blah blah blah blah blah troll garbage blah blah blah blah blah troll garbage


This guy's just a troll...

[OutlawBill]

Originally posted by RATPACK Z400
i just read that all the 700xxs got beat by a hybrid 650 sra quad in one of those desert races,two most desert riders are still thinking honda has the best quads that dont brake down when really there no better NOW then any other brand. three honda pits honda owners in those desert races (be stupid not to ride a honda) they have the old reliablity thing going and will have that behind there name when it come to racing. Irs has its place ,but not in racing XC or MX plan and simple TIL they get better! I looked at that vid and you see that 700xx on two wheels the handling isn,t there without major mods!I dont hate IRS I just think people are putting these quads high up on a pedistool when they aren,t all that .and honda could put a turd with wheels on it and people would love it! cause it says honda. That is a 650 Honda and it took them over a year to get all the bugs work out.

[SPDSNYPR]

Originally posted by Backstabber
Blah Blah Blah - I'm a dirty tramp

That's all I heard.

[GE4x4]

IMHO the 700xx is perfect for Baja or Desert racing. It has the legs to go very fast, yet handel the bumps very well. It's got plenty of power and so far seems reliable. But for MX or XC IMHO it still needs work. MX is a no brainer and I'm sure Honda hasn't even marketed it for that. But XC it has. Racing is expensive as I'm sure no one will dissagree. But the 700xx only has one option te keep it stock width and be competative. That is custom made 11" beadlocks and Maxxis new 22/10/11 Razr tires. Near $250 for just the tires make it real expensive to have spares and at over $1000 to have beadlocks makes it costly. And this is to keep the width at 46"-47" wide. But it still sits high for the width. Plus the weight is a issue. Yes in desert or open areas it's not a issue, but zig zagging inbetween trees for 2 hrs at a race pace will wear you out. If they could figure out a 10" rear package with 20" tires it will do many things. Much more selection of tires and wheels thus making racing cheaper and we all need that. It would also lower the quad, and also lower the weight. But that IMHO. I guess we will really see what people think of it for xc racing when all the series start in a week. But I would bet you will see very very few.

[scuzz]

Originally posted by GE4x4
If they could figure out a 10" rear package with 20" tires it will do many things. Much more selection of tires and wheels thus making racing cheaper and we all need that. It would also lower the quad, and also lower the weight. But that IMHO. I guess we will really see what people think of it for xc racing when all the series start in a week. But I would bet you will see very very few.

I couldn't agree with you more. (even the stuff I didn't quote)

IMO Honda, or the aftermarke will have to change the rear a-arm setup to be able to accept the 10" wheels...ESPECIALLY with beadlocks. Here is a 10" ITP wheel made for the 700XX. Note how close it is to the upper and lower A-Arm:

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j254/gwwaddle/TRX700XX/100_9264.jpg

This is OK for me because these are my sand tires that I mostly plan to drag race and hillclimb with. IMO if they were used by anyone with racing intentions the 1st bend would result in a clearance issue resulting in a lockup of the rear wheels.

Once the aftermarket gets a large enough following for the 700xx then I'm sure some "serious" wheels will come out with competitive pricing, but for now...not so much.

Also FWIW, I took my 700XX to a MX track and it was very taxing. But to it's benifit, I am 38 and a candass. :)

[scuzz]

Oh, and YES they are mounted on the wrong sides. I mounted them for picture purposes only. [blush]

[GE4x4]

scuzz, I really appreciate getting thos measurements for me. I was realy considering racing the 700xx if I could keep it stock width with 10" wheels. But I will have to see what the 2010 brings out.:macho

[scuzz]

No probleemo man!

Glad I could help a fellow rider. (and IRS-er)

:)

[RATPACK Z400]

Hey why dont you post this thread in the 450,s section then see what they say cause I can beat you,ll get same thing said by them as im saying!cause most cross country proracers are running 450,s tell them your irs is better and that your quad is faster in the woods,and irs is the best for that type of racing.Oh by the way thats MR TROLL to you!

[scuzz]

I never said anything about it being faster in the woods though. I can't and don't speak or speculate on what I don't know. That's why I respond here and not the Z400 or 450r forums. You brought in reliability and conjecture on your part about them being "all that". You post that "you just read" and you never link or quote a source. When someone who races the 700XX (and wins) you say nothing.

So please go away, there are adults talking here.

[Backstabber]

Originally posted by scuzz
I never said anything about it being faster in the woods though. I can't and don't speak or speculate on what I don't know. That's why I respond here and not the Z400 or 450r forums. You brought in reliability and conjecture on your part about them being "all that". You post that "you just read" and you never link or quote a source. When someone who races the 700XX (and wins) you say nothing.

So please go away, there are adults talking here.
HA:devil:

[RATPACK Z400]

This argument is about SRA VRS IRS why not post it in other forums besides this one then you will get both sides opions ! not just irs riders opions but all,im not that good with computer to post quotes and stuff like that, can barely put pics up hav,nt spend too much time with computer to know how too.