Mild build ds450 dyno graphs

[ltr311]

First graph shows rons woods pipe, big k@n filter, pc tuned vs. same mods with web(dasa) mid grind cams, cp 13.6, sunoco110 tuned. Gains are minimal. WE were disappointed but were told by more than one builder not to expect over 50whp. I guess they were right. You be the judge. Im sure tnt will say I did something wrong, but the truth is I spent 3 hours making the map and it was perfect. It just wasnt doing what we hoped. Sorry guys.


http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c44/Nismo311/DSC01737.jpg



Second graph shows the same above 3mod ds. vs. a 3 mod 08 ltr on the same dyno. Just simply for comparison. So you guys can see some of what Ive been talking about with the head. It is what it is.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c44/Nismo311/DSC01738.jpg

[ScottB125]

I'll have to look at this at home....for some reason, work is blocking it.

How much more power did the ltr make vs the DS with the 3 mods?

[ltr311]

Here are some examples for you.

06 ltr dasa pipe, fuel intake, pc 48whp 34ftlbs

08 ds450 ron woods, intake, pc 48whp 32ftlbs

09 ltr dasa pipe, fuel intake, pc 51whp 36ftlbs.

Hope this helps. 08-09 ltrs are powerful but heavy. I weighed my ltr and my ktm yesterday. My ltr was 410lbs and my ktm was 360lbs. Ouch.

[TNT]

I don't think you did anything wrong my friend on your set up and results…I'd imagine with all your dyno experience you know how to run one. The dynojet you use is just that, not to be taken literally…It lacks load on the engine like a eddy current dyno or track would produce and a lot of other varibles. I do beleive what your did is accurate but you are making the wrong assumptions from the data.

Due to all the different characteristics of the motors you are comparing I don't believe you can make the comparisons you are. Your mixing apples and oranges and making some crude assumptions. Your taking part of an air system that has many parts making some partial mods and making the wrong assumptions. For example, lets assume as you said the DS port jobs are only good for the stock motor and have bad flow for mods(pipe, cams, intakes, more intake and exhaust air) and the worse case of it compared to the others…In other words the Rotax is VERY reliant on the air system as a whole and is different than the others in that respect. Lets also assume that a DS port job when done right is highly effect moreso than the ltr, (you ran none) in combination with more duration from the cams really has a large effect on the DS and does not have much of the ltr…..I mean you can understand that in order for cams and HP pistons to be effective the air has to come in and out through the ports and some stock engines do this better or differently than others. Also the chambers, intale, throttle body, cylinder, exaust, etc, react differently between quads….some may respond better to pipes, cams, ports, hc pistons, etc depending on the system design. Who knows what the cam grind is on the DS too, and did the ltr have exactly the same grind?, port, throttle body diameter, stroke, bore, etc….….….Now I could create many other scenaeo's to diffuse your comparison due to lots and lots of variables here, but then Joey would say my post are too long…..lol! Oh and if you need proof to what I am saying call DASA they have got 64 hp, protec 58….Natalie, Miller, Lawson, Hendricks results…..how much more proof do you need?

50% won't understand all that or call it bs that’s fine! I know! :blah: :D

[ltr311]

Here is a pic of the machine on the dyno. Just so you know this dyno is just as good if not better than an eddie current. its a dynojet chassis dyno with 4500lb drums. Has been used to tune up to 1000whp dragsters. So Im sure its just fine little fella. It creates an awesome load and has proven to be very good tuning tool. Sorry bro it is what it is. But thanks for trying.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c44/Nismo311/DSC01734.jpg

[dbkbushwacker]

got any pics of the intake ltr311?

[ltr311]

Originally posted by dbkbushwacker
got any pics of the intake ltr311?
I was gonna get a bunch of pics for you guys but my camera died. I only got this one. He is coming back in a few weeks. We are gonna try a few more intake setups. This one on his bike worked much better than the stock box,and stock box with lid off. Even though the velocity/turbulence of the swirl affect in the chamber housing was affecting my the over all air distribution in the exhuast bowl(per TNT) wasnt as good. LOL

[WesDS450X]

**** id be happy with 50hp, thats probly all teh power id need for dune riding

[bwkcobra03]

All dynos are different some will read higher power or lower power depinding on softwere,calibration, age of magnetic brake, dyno manufacture, model, outside air temp, altitude, even tire pressure can cause differance how the dyno reads.

The purpos of a dyno is to tune your vehicle correctly, make as much power and be safe about it. Correct air fuel ratio, and timing curve. That way you don' melt your valves or pistons.

I do alot of performance cars mostly boosted vehicles and I have noticed when I rent different dyno shops dyno for tuning they all read differently. For instance was renting this guys shop to tune my 03 Cobra and he had a Mustang Dyno. I was only getting 543rwhp @ 14psi boost My AFR# were 11.8 ny total timing advance under full boost was 18deg advanced the out side air temp was 75 degrees and our elevation was about 1100 feet. when he closed his shop i startes renting from another dyno shop. This shop had a dyno jet dyno so befoure i started tuning a car i built i ran some base runs with my cobra. Note I have the same tune in the cobra as i built at the other guys shop the out side air temp was 82 degrees and the elevation is the same. my cobra made 561 rwhp on a different dyno. WoW I picked up 20 hp from doing a base run on a different dyno and I didn'd do any thing different. lol these are my pump gas tunes 93octane.

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee70/bwkcobra3/new1021.jpg

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee70/bwkcobra3/new1027-1.jpg

This viper is one of the cars I built It has a stroker v10 with ROE racing heads, cam, supercharger, pushing 10psi boost with water meth injection on 93 octane pump gas it makes 784 rwhp on the dyno jet dyno.


Dyno numbers can be different form one guys dyno to anothers.

The best way to tell how much power you get from your vehicle

tune on a dyno the same dyno every time and go out and check your lap times. make sure you do some base lap times befoure you do your mods and tune.

[TNT]

BWKCOBRAO3 - FINALLY SOMEONE THAT KNOWS WHAT THEY ARE DOING AND MAKES SOME SENSE!!!!!! THANK YOU!!!

[DGS]

I agree, all dyno's are different...thanks..

[hotshotgoal30]

Originally posted by bwkcobra03
All dynos are different some will read higher power or lower power depinding on softwere,calibration, age of magnetic brake, dyno manufacture, model, outside air temp, altitude, even tire pressure can cause differance how the dyno reads.

The purpos of a dyno is to tune your vehicle correctly, make as much power and be safe about it. Correct air fuel ratio, and timing curve. That way you don' melt your valves or pistons.

I do alot of performance cars mostly boosted vehicles and I have noticed when I rent different dyno shops dyno for tuning they all read differently. For instance was renting this guys shop to tune my 03 Cobra and he had a Mustang Dyno. I was only getting 543rwhp @ 14psi boost My AFR# were 11.8 ny total timing advance under full boost was 18deg advanced the out side air temp was 75 degrees and our elevation was about 1100 feet. when he closed his shop i startes renting from another dyno shop. This shop had a dyno jet dyno so befoure i started tuning a car i built i ran some base runs with my cobra. Note I have the same tune in the cobra as i built at the other guys shop the out side air temp was 82 degrees and the elevation is the same. my cobra made 561 rwhp on a different dyno. WoW I picked up 20 hp from doing a base run on a different dyno and I didn'd do any thing different. lol these are my pump gas tunes 93octane.

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee70/bwkcobra3/new1021.jpg

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee70/bwkcobra3/new1027-1.jpg

This viper is one of the cars I built It has a stroker v10 with ROE racing heads, cam, supercharger, pushing 10psi boost with water meth injection on 93 octane pump gas it makes 784 rwhp on the dyno jet dyno.


Dyno numbers can be different form one guys dyno to anothers.

The best way to tell how much power you get from your vehicle

tune on a dyno the same dyno every time and go out and check your lap times. make sure you do some base lap times befoure you do your mods and tune.

do you need a son? lol vipers have always been my favorite car just love them. although i like the challengers with the 6.1 hemi woohhoo.. but thats for another forum i guess. lol

[bwkcobra03]

Now i need to learn a little more about my DS450 like how to tune it. I have a wide band afr meter that i use to set up some base tunes on the cars when i am done building them so we can brake them befoure going to the dyno shop.

I am planning to use it on my ds when i put the pipe, air boxlid, air filter and fmi on it.

what should my afr numbers be for a safe tune????

[ltr311]

What point are you guys making again? I use the same dyno everytime. LOL

Cobra, I to am into fast cars. Ive owned quite a few fast imports

My srt4 made 462whp on .48 back half 50trim 11.4@125
This car has had many good battles with 03-04cobras. They trap right about the same. Freeway pulls are fun with cobras. LOL Always wanted one just never manned up. Ive always liked going fast in imports for some reason. Ive tuned quite a few 500whp srts.

My evo ran 11.77@118 on stock turbo.

My ms3 putterwagon runs 12.8@ 107 its the wifeys

My buddy rob has a 02 vette with procharger on meth. Made 580whp on 12psi. I took it out on street tires once. LOl He wouldnt let me run slicks. He was afraid of the rearend going. But I still mustered an 11.2@128 with a 1.72 60ft. on streets. I was shocked. 10s easy on radials.

I also have three track championships at firebird raceway. In fact building and tuning cars is how I came to be in dynoing quads. This is the same dyno Ive tuned all my rides on. So yeah Ive been around. Ive been tuning on this dyno for 7yrs. now.

Its been fun. But again everything Ive done has been on this same dyno. So its pretty much a tuning tool and has been very consistant for me. Kind of like Tnt is a tool. LOL

[ltr311]

Originally posted by bwkcobra03
Now i need to learn a little more about my DS450 like how to tune it. I have a wide band afr meter that i use to set up some base tunes on the cars when i am done building them so we can brake them befoure going to the dyno shop.

I am planning to use it on my ds when i put the pipe, air boxlid, air filter and fmi on it.

what should my afr numbers be for a safe tune????

Ive tuned several quads with a lm1 also. works decent. lots of the ltr guys use them also. Good tuning tool if you dont have a dyno all the time

[DGS]

Whats a lm1...?

[ltr311]

Originally posted by DGS
Whats a lm1...?
Wideband afr meter. Look it up, they are nice tuning tools.

[DGS]

Originally posted by ltr311
Wideband afr meter. Look it up, they are nice tuning tools.

Thanks, will check it out...

[TNT]

311 I am not trying to say your wrong you are right in everything you did, I just challenge the way you scrutinize/compare the info. Some engines are going to respond better to certain mods than others and ALL the conditions you test under have to be the same including atmospheric. If your up to I'd like to see on the DS what your dyno reads with and with out a air box. Theoretically there should be no difference since what you are testing for is the vacuum pressure of the intake system as a whole and this box is designed to create vacuum pressure. If you took off the box to get the k&N in put it back and the stock set up if you have it and lets see what the K&N did if anything. Many think the filter needs more velocity and don't understand the difference. More velocity will not create more vacuum pressure and the cylinder can only absorb so much pressure on the intake stroke. Throwing more velocity at may not do anything unless the cylinder is under sized, the port is flowed correctly, or the air box can create vacuum pressure. Temperature will effect the results. It's an easy mod give it a whirl on the DS while its on the dyno…by the way thanks for info it is very useless I mean "usefull" BIG fella…..lol!

[TNT]

O and make sure you do the test within an hour of each other since a slight change in temp can vary the results. thx.

[ltr311]

Ive already done it. Ill dig up the graphs. Trust me dude I try everything. Dont take me for an idiot. The can am is no different than any other quad. You give it more air and its gonna make more power to some extent. There is a happy medium but keeping the box on has nothing to do with it. Go do your own testing on the dyno and see for yourself. Im tired of arguing with you. Its worthless. Ive seen and and done it. Your speculating. That will get you no where. Go out and prove your theory otherwise you are wasting your breath. Ive proven it over and over again. Boxless or really modified box setups make the most power. Look outside the box brotha and you will learn something. The box is there to protect the filter not to create some kind of super air dynamics. LOL

Im done with you. Put up some facts first then we will talk.

[TNT]

Opps I keep thinkin carb forgot this EFI has a temp sensor so do it anytime just not in extreme differences since I don't know it's range yet but if you do this run both with and without a load on the engine I'd like to see what effect that has too.

[TNT]

Originally posted by ltr311
Ive already done it. Ill dig up the graphs. Trust me dude I try everything. Dont take me for an idiot. The can am is no different than any other quad. You give it more air and its gonna make more power to some extent. There is a happy medium but keeping the box on has nothing to do with it. Go do your own testing on the dyno and see for yourself. Im tired of arguing with you. Its worthless. Ive seen and and done it. Your speculating. That will get you no where. Go out and prove your theory otherwise you are wasting your breath. Ive proven it over and over again. Boxless or really modified box setups make the most power. Look outside the box brotha and you will learn something. The box is there to protect the filter not to create some kind of super air dynamics. LOL

Im done with you. Put up some facts first then we will talk.

Thats fine I'll have my mods done and it on a brand new eddy current dyno coming in two weeks soon and I'll test it myself thats really the best thing to do anyway, do it yourself at home on your own.....you'll find a ton of different results on forums your just one of many!!

[bwkcobra03]

So what is the best Air Fuel Ratio for me to tune with on my wide band when i do my mods.

By the way my best et on my cobra ia a 10.74 @ 128 mph with a 1.42 60 foot on bfgoodrich drag radials. no nos. I do have a 250 shot of nos I never used at the track but it is all hoocked and ready to use if i need it.

EVO running 11's very respectable. My best friend just got an 09 EVO 10 the car is pretty cool it is all stock for now. lol He also has a twin turbo 04 srt10 viper and just sold his twin turbo 03 svt cobra.

MORE POWER AND MORE SPEED IS WHAT WE ALL WANT!

[ltr311]

Cobra. My lm1 and the sniffer on the dyno are a little different. Seems the ds makes good power on the dyno sniffer at about 13.6-13.9. On the lm1 that shows about 13.4. Difference between going through sniffer and right from a wideband sensor.

So what Im saying is around 13.0-13.5 should be the sweet spot. Just get it close doesnt have to be exact. I spend alot of time tuning and have got it down pretty good. if you need any advice just hit me up. Pretty much just like tuning on cars. You know what I mean. Good luck bro.

[ltr311]

Ps. My buddy up here Brett Todd has a supra making 1150whp. He has gone a best of 8.9 @160 or something, on et streets and full interior and exterior. His was built by torque freaks. Its stupid fast. I drove it when it was still a 6 speed and it accelarated so fast my vision was blurred. I **** you not. LOL Its an auto now. To much power for a 6 speed you know?

[bwkcobra03]

Thanks 311

SUPRA those cars are sick. I used to be one of the owners of www.speedtoys.com we specalized in supra's. I sold myshare to my old partner Chris back in 1998 . He pissed off alot of the (S.O.G.I) supra owners befoure he went bankrupt and then he sold the name. Speed toys is still in business.

I also have a friend that has one of the fastest supras in the country i havent seen him in a long time. Vinney Ten