DS450 Best MX Race Motor's

[TNT]

K, I'm getting ready to get my 09 motor done(to about 55-58 hp) and I'd be interested in "MX racers" comments only on who did your motors, what was done to it(pipe, intake, filter, cams, piston compression, etc..) what it dynoed at(torque, hp), what problems risen w/the bigger motor and/or quad overall, 08 and/or 09's. Not interested in hearing from anyone but those that actually have big motors and have "MX" raced them….no sponsor pushers or sales people on this thread please!

Big motor companies from what I have gathered for the DS450 are DASA, Protec, Rage, Rossier.

I already know there is a potential clutch problem and mud getting in the radiator. Heard rumors of a third gear problem not sure how valid it is….?

Any input would be appreciated!!

Thanks!

TNT

[ds450racer]

check pm

[cdoskocil9]

Could I get a PM too Im bout to send some major money through this motor and want too do it right!!!!!!

[dbkbushwacker]

hey cdoskocil9 that ironman pipe good?

[cdoskocil9]

I love it man I haven't tried anything else but I've seen dyno sheets proving it works...... Rage is going to build and dyno my motor soon ill know for sure then if its good enough for high HP I know HMF makes a better pipe we can't get but I hope mines not far behind.......

[gfleck067]

hey i had a buddy of mine send his motor out to rage
he spent 4 grand on the motor the first time
didnt get a dyno sheet
2 months later had to send it back becauseof some noise it was makin
then it ran fine for a while
then he burnt up a couple of valves not to long ago
dont know if they messed anything else up or not
but my motor had a 13.5:1 piston port and polished head valve job and a tru 450 kit on it and i would stomp that motor

might just have been one persons bad luck with rage but i would not send anything to them

[cdoskocil9]

Do you know what all he had done for $4000 that is a lot of money ..... I'm spending a bunch but not quite that much.......

[TNT]

You guys needing fast motors might want to hold on until I'm done with mine. In the next 30 days I will have the answers to what works and what doesn't....Got a mechanic with over 25 years experience building quad engines and running dynos backed by one of the best engineers/mechanic around me w/25 years too teaming up, and a new eddy current dyno coming in two weeks (Dynojet 251X)......well be testing pipes maybe building one, and I'll be designing parts for the quad on CATIA.....I'm going to through this quad inch by inch looking for things to improve and customize and studying it..... keep me posted on what you already know that needs improvements.

Stay tuned!

[gfleck067]

all he said was that it was a competley built national A class motor

i dont know wat all was in it but i know is dad paid 4grand for it

[cdoskocil9]

Thanks for the heads up man....... I still think Ima give them a shot though I have heard good things too TNT1 please post or PM me your build when your done if its not too late I would be very interested in your results......

[rageatvsupermom]

Who is this person who spent 4 thousand on one of our motors that we supposidly messed up? Before people start accusing
I would like to make sure the facts are straight.......we have not charged anyone 4000 for just a motor.......so this does not sound
right.....just curious so we can make sure this unhappy customer
is taken care of.

Thanks Michele
Rage Atv

[rageatvsupermom]

Well I guess this young man is not going to reply with the
info.......what a shame people must get on the internet
and bash companies and others without proof.

I am not saying we are perfect but if a customer is not happy
we do stand behind our product and try to do everything
in our power to make it right.

Thanks
Michele

[TNT]

I'd hate to work in this industry and deal with all the BS….just being a part of this sport and internet experience is trying on my nerves at times. Rage is a good reputable company, I mean common look at their history and racer results. Not saying that because they are doing my motor since I am doing my own. Don’t worry I have heard the same BS about DASA and Protec out here, they all have strengths, weaknesses, and learning curves especially on a relatively new motors and quads.

CDOSKOCIL9…..are you going to be running your new motor in hot weather if so are you sticking with the stock radiator?

[cdoskocil9]

Yes it will be hot at times not sure about the radiator I am new to this whole thing should I get an aftermarket one? I thought I read they didnt help?

[gfleck067]

sorry it took so long to reply i have been tryin to get my stuff figured out

i am not bashing rage i have herd alot of sucess with there motors

the kids name is steve he races a class i cant spell his last name dont know how

but i dont know if it was him that caused the problems or if it was the company he doesnt know wat he is talkin about half of the time

he might have burnt up a valve when his muffler fell off and had to finish half of a lap or so i dont kno there are endless possibilities on what happened

i kno when his motor was runnin right and my motor was running right my motor out pulled him by a few bikes


once again i am not bashing rage i would not send my motor out to have someone else build it because you never really know wat all was done (i have also seen someone send there motor out to get worked on port and polish high cimp piston etc... he got it back and messed up a head gasket and lookey there the stock piston was still in it this was NOT rage this was a diff comp.)
i just wont sent my motor anywhere i will do it myself sorry if it sounded like i was bashing you guys i wasnt my apologizes

[TNT]

This is what DASA will do to your motor for About $2,000...this is the second time today and about a month ago I talked to Johnney there.

EPOXY PORTS- ($500-600) same port and cost as any other OEM head. Ask him SEVERAL times and the DS does not need more work or epoxy than the others....
DECK HEAD
SEAT VALVES
WEB CAMS (RE-DEGREE CAMS Requires more hours than other OEMs) (08 they used stock grind but now have a stronger custom billet)
BORE THROTTLE, ADD NEW VALVE- 08 Can-am made butterfly but stopped now offer a 50mm for $450 for a 2hp gain, stock is 46mm
TI RETAINER SHIMS FOR VALVE SPRINGS
BIG BORE (have not done yet)
BIGGER INJECTOR – available through Can am, blue(stock), green richer, red richer.
BIGGER RADIATOR – stock works fine but remove theromostat between head and radiator and run CV4 hoses
INTAKE - Is working on a public plastic intake(08 sheet metal for race team), runs no air box except in mud they modified the stock box so it bolts on easy.
PIPE -Recommends FMF Megabob full system pipe best on thier dyno. Is working on a pipe ECD 1-2 months.
LIMPO Mode – Can am can remove it.

[dbkbushwacker]

Originally posted by TNT1
This is what DASA will do to your motor for About $2,000...this is the second time today and about a month ago I talked to Johnney there.

EPOXY PORTS- ($500-600) same port and cost as any other OEM head. Ask him SEVERAL times and the DS does not need more work or epoxy than the others....
DECK HEAD
SEAT VALVES
WEB CAMS (RE-DEGREE CAMS Requires more hours than other OEMs) (08 they used stock grind but now have a stronger custom billet)
BORE THROTTLE, ADD NEW VALVE- 08 Can-am made butterfly but stopped now offer a 50mm for $450 for a 2hp gain, stock is 46mm
TI RETAINER SHIMS FOR VALVE SPRINGS
BIG BORE (have not done yet)
BIGGER INJECTOR – available through Can am, blue(stock), green richer, red richer.
BIGGER RADIATOR – stock works fine but remove theromostat between head and radiator and run CV4 hoses
INTAKE - Is working on a public plastic intake(08 sheet metal for race team), runs no air box except in mud they modified the stock box so it bolts on easy.
PIPE -Recommends FMF Megabob full system pipe best on thier dyno. Is working on a pipe ECD 1-2 months.
LIMPO Mode – Can am can remove it.



Any more details on the big bore kits?

[DGS]

Originally posted by TNT1
This is what DASA will do to your motor for About $2,000...this is the second time today and about a month ago I talked to Johnney there.

EPOXY PORTS- ($500-600) same port and cost as any other OEM head. Ask him SEVERAL times and the DS does not need more work or epoxy than the others....
DECK HEAD
SEAT VALVES
WEB CAMS (RE-DEGREE CAMS Requires more hours than other OEMs) (08 they used stock grind but now have a stronger custom billet)
BORE THROTTLE, ADD NEW VALVE- 08 Can-am made butterfly but stopped now offer a 50mm for $450 for a 2hp gain, stock is 46mm
TI RETAINER SHIMS FOR VALVE SPRINGS
BIG BORE (have not done yet)
BIGGER INJECTOR – available through Can am, blue(stock), green richer, red richer.
BIGGER RADIATOR – stock works fine but remove theromostat between head and radiator and run CV4 hoses
INTAKE - Is working on a public plastic intake(08 sheet metal for race team), runs no air box except in mud they modified the stock box so it bolts on easy.
PIPE -Recommends FMF Megabob full system pipe best on thier dyno. Is working on a pipe ECD 1-2 months.
LIMPO Mode – Can am can remove it.

Hey TNT1, Do you know if its better to have the throttle body smooth or rough..? Would it be possible to use a hone on the throttle body to remove the ridge..?

[TNT]

My buddy and local 25 yr quad engine builder I am working with is VERY good and known world wide….Talk to him a little today about what DASA said and the TB he said we can get a butterfly valve made and bore the TB. He also is the manufacturer and supplier of cylinders to Weisco, Sparks, and others, he needs to see my motor and determine if we are going to a stroker crank or make a big bore for it. Also discussed our own custom intake, filter, and exhaust....I'll have more info as to weather we will build a big bore, butterfly, intake/filter, exhaust, soon!….I'll give him my motor and quad in the next day or two think we can get it out tonight and will ask about the ridge DGS. Oh he has a new dyno and flow bench so it will be interesting to see the port. I may even order a few pipes just to see the difference. I got to work 10 hours/day but plan on watching as much as I can and keeping you all informed on our progress…..

PS: Were going to try and blacken a lot of the quad out too, we got some custom pegs and nurf bars from pro-armer that are sick! Working on custom graphics too.

[Dale512]

If your not sure between boring or stroking the motor keep in mind the Aprilia RSV1000 actually uses a longer stroke than to get its extra displacement and the heads being the same between the 2 that may be something to consider. I beleive it uses a 67.5mm stroke compared to the 60.8mm stroke of the DS.

[crixal]

crazy dasa tells me & bush one thing then turn around and tell you another about the pipe & intake. i'm glad i didn't buy dasa. they have the worst customer service i've ever talked to. extremely rude people. anyways, a blacked out ds would look amazing. i have the yellow one and i'm gonna get black hipers, nerfs, bumbers, and get the yellow grill.i'll probably tint the head lights. i've got all the stickers off, also. i can't wait to see your bike when you're done.

[TNT]

Ok Dale thanks.....I was thinking today I might want to get into that block and look at the tranny gears anyway and see what we can do...

Yeah Crix then they tell 311 one thing about the ports needs all this work and me another...I'm fortunate I got an engine builder here in my home town as good as any of them with a flow bench so we can get the flow spot on....Man I'm just not sure how much power I want for MX, thinking like 56-58, any more and my racer is going to have to be in top shape and let off the throttle a little lol! Its hard to tell how far to take the motor and what we will get at the 360lbs wet.

I'm not sure I can powder coat the swing arm but heard it has been done before...Just a little worried about weakening it...I forgot what temp they powder coat too..but yeah the quad will look awesome blacked out...was going to do the axle but that may be pushing it too far...lol! Tie rods, hubs, axle might leave silver....I'm doing the side frame beams black, bumpers, nurfs, tho....getting rid of the gay yellow up front too Wes lol!

S/b a bad arse 09 soon! :cool:

[cdoskocil9]

Thank you Ima call Rage tomorrow

[crixal]

at the most i just want 8-9 hp over stock. i've rode a few 50+ quads and it's not for me. i think i'm getting a stock run & current mod run saturday.