USA Today-article portrays ATVers as violent

[mxraptor149]

Wow. As a newspaper journalist, freelance writer for ATV publications and life-long rider, I am horribly offended by this article.

It makes me want to vomit in terror. This is why if you're not a member of the ATVA, Blue Ribbon Coalition, or other pro-rider group, you need to be.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-12-30-off-road-clashes_N.htm

[Pappy]

Hopefully your offended by the abusive behavior reported. The article read very well from where i'm sitting. Sounds like there are serious issues that need to be dealt with regarding tresspassing and criminal misuse of off road vehicles.

[mxraptor149]

I don't think it was very well balanced reporting, honestly. The reporter lists numerous "attacks" but does not attribute those reported incidents, other than the ranger assault, even to assault reports or other documentation. Even in that instance, the reporter talked to a supervisor and not the actual ranger. The "national chief ranger" whom the attack is attributed to does not even work in the same state.

The reporter does cite several "pro" off-roaders, which is a valiant effort. I'm just questioning the accuracy of the actual events.

If there is any truth behind this, then it is alarming and offensive. I just find it hard to picture even an avid rider bearing down on someone and hanging on to an ATV while taking an accurate swing at someone.

[mxraptor149]

Lack of proof, essentially, is my argument here.

Aside from the "trespassing" citations issued in San Bernadino County to riders who did not have written permission from land owners, there is no actual documentation of violent off-roaders.

What I'm looking for is an actual police report from anywhere in the country charging someone with assault in the context of off-roading. As someone who reports regularly on a police beat, reporters know violent assault-type elements in stories need proof — hence an actual charge and report.

That's why I say this may be an inaccurate portrayal, though I don't doubt there are those "10-percenters" out there.

[Pappy]

Originally posted by mxraptor149
I just find it hard to picture even an avid rider bearing down on someone and hanging on to an ATV while taking an accurate swing at someone.

Then you need to get away from a private track or the races, because the actions of many offroad people is disgusting. Physical violence....hell I see that at the races in a controled enviorment much less in some guys field. I have no doubt there have been way more physical threats or threats period then what was reported.

Locally, we always have issues with people on atv's trespassing, and if you confront them, you have a better then 50/50 chance of it becoming a heated exchange. The rope across the trails, spikes and other means to stop trespassers is becoming more common. Vandelism by offroaders is all to common, along with trash left behind, destruction of private property etc.

Seems to me the article shows that those charged with different riding coalitions see it, infact they acknowldge them as "10 percenters" This is all nothing new, been happening as long as Ive been riding.

[mxraptor149]

I guess it's less obvious where I'm at. Housing developments have so erased our trail networks that, you're right, I have no option but to ride tracks and private trail networks operated for profit.

I still think the article, images, headline and quotes paint a somewhat exaggerated picture, but I could be wrong.

Regardless, the moral I see here is rider responsibility.

[Pappy]

Originally posted by mxraptor149

I still think the article, images, headline and quotes paint a somewhat exaggerated picture, but I could be wrong.

Regardless, the moral I see here is rider responsibility.

Could be....

Lets see if people post about their experiences with offroading and violence. Many times we can see things that never get turned over to police...infact, around here, the police may investigate a complaint but rarely file a report.

I personally have seen fights, illegal drug use, violence both to and from atv /dirt bike riders, sabatoge to trails and to personal property. I have read on this site where members have encountered things to harm them on LEGAL trails. Sad part is, it wont ever stop. There is always a group in any activity that makes the rest look bad.

I am probably one of the most pro offroad guys you'll meet, but shake my head at 95% of what I see.

I also see this stuff with jet ski's and boaters...hunters and fishermen....

[mxraptor149]

I have to agree. I, too, often shake my head at actions I witness even at the motocross track. I've also been the victim of a wire stretched across a legal trail.

But I've also been to Wellsville, a notorious — and technically illegal — ride spot in Ohio and have never really witnessed any violent encounters there.

But I am curious to hear some forum members' tales of violent encounters on the trail ... if they've been a victim or want to disclose being the aggressor.

[scuzz]

I too have seen a single barbed wire stretched across a trail. I thought it would kill someone so marked it with pink tape.

Originally posted by scuzz
I too have seen a single barbed wire stretched across a trail. I thought it would kill someone so marked it with pink tape.

thats terrible i remember a few years ago this 14 year old girl was decaptitated on her 400ex cause she hit barbed wire. She was riding where she shouldnt have been and I guess was going pretty fast. Still sad to hear. Then there was a guy maybe a year ago flying down this dead end street at night without a helmet or lights he flew into the woods hit a tree and died, some kid found the body the next day or something walking through the woods. Theres always a bad influence on a sport. Theres always gonna be a punk or something look at skateboarding. Thats probally the biggest anytime I would be skateboarding people would treat me like a criminal. Cops always called for no reason at all to tell me i cant be doing that. Then I would be accused of crimes in the area it sucked. But there are a lot of punks in skateboarding but you cant accuse everyone in that group and just assume.

[deathman53]

About 15 years ago, there was a kid, Andrew Brandice(I think), he had his spinal cord ripped. In an illegal ridding spot, an angry land owner put a chain across the trails, everyone knew it was there and slowed down and ducked under it. That kid didn't know it was there, was flying on a yz of cr 125, its wasn't pretty what happened. I wasn't there, but know people that were there. Turns out the land owner got arrested, charged with some kind of homicide variety and some other stuff. He also got sued by the family of the kid killed. It made most of papers in the area. Trail boobby traps, hidden holes, logs and stuff can cause injuries and fatalities that were never intended and result in criminal charges/lawsuits.

[Crazy lil punk]

a chain at the entrance to a property is one thing, or even a visible blockade is okay, but one string of babed wire is just ****ed up, thats just so wrong. Put up a brick wall, atleast some one could see it before they hit it, jeez.

[ProspectorJim]

the germans used to tie piano wire across roads for any allied soldiers coming through in a jeep during WWII.

fun fact?

[dsherw00d]

In NY, if a land owner puts something across a known trail - even if it's posted land - that is not clearly visible, they are liable for any injuries as a result.

Near me, we always had these kids that would wheelie down the road at 40+ MPH, cut through driveways and yards, etc. 2 years ago, one of them decided to try a triple made for a bike on his 450R with only a helmet - no chest protector, neck brace, boots, etc. Well, the quad hit the face of the landing jump front tires first and endoed - grab bar came down on his back - paralyzed from the wast down. Sucks, but as parents you can tell your kids a million times to not do that stupid sh%&. We went to his benefit last year - sad to see. This was a result of 4-5 kids hanging around and doing things they shouldn't be. None of them had this type of experience.

BTW - this is my biggest fear with my kids on quads - getting tangled up in them during a crash. I grew up on bikes, but have had a quad for the last 10 years or so - after I matured:D

I'm also getting tired of seeing people in their 30s, 40s, 50s, etc driving around on their 700lb 4x4s half lit with no helmets. We have had more than one accident in our area where these big things gently roll over and crush the rider. Twice, it injured the small child that was on the quad with them!!

I think they should have off-road classes at school like they do for driver-ed. Not official curriculum, but an after school thing maybe run by one of the off road orgs. Let parents sign their kids up for it and show some of the terrible videos that are on youtube and explain safety rules/equipment. Not to mention off road manners:mad:

[powermadd400ex]

a couple years ago, a young kid about 12 or 13 years old and his dad and his dad's friend was riding on some land. and that is LEGAL to ride on. the owner of the land is a nice guy. but back off in the woods there is an old mans house. he has posted signs around his property to keep quads out of his land. well the boy, his father and his fathers friend was riding about this time of year and was on the outskirts of the old mans property. the old man confornted them and said stay "500 feet away for these posted signs". the two older men and the old man had an arguement about the old mans statement. so the older men and the boy left. well they come back the next weekend and the old man hears the quads(these were utility quads, and we all know how quiet they are). so the old man goes into a hunting post(like the ones in the trees). and shoots all three including the 13 year old. he mutiliates each body and put them in garbage bags.
about a week or two later the bodies were found. the old man was charged with man slaughter. BUT get this, even though the man was found guilty. many people applauded his actions, and backed him up. they werent even on the old mans property and they still backed the man up.

anyways the people that put up barbwire and the old man i stated above is why i dont think very highly of people these days :ermm:

[Outlaw 50]

With the new bunch of enviro-weinies coming into office at the end of the month it would not surprise me to see many more of these types of articles.

I have no doubt that the media, both print & televised, being another wing of the Democratic Party will work very hard to make any user of offroad vehicles look bad in the eyes of the public.

Once we offroaders have been demonized enough it will be very easy to close huge amounts of public and private land to OHV use.
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I call BS on the 10%ers being "violent". Of the 4.7 million offroad users I would believe more like .0001% are doing "violent" acts against landowners and other riders.

What a crock of sh*t! Don't allow these people to distract you from reality.

[Crazy lil punk]

Originally posted by Outlaw 50
With the new bunch of enviro-weinies coming into office at the end of the month it would not surprise me to see many more of these types of articles.

I have no doubt that the media, both print & televised, being another wing of the Democratic Party will work very hard to make any user of offroad vehicles look bad in the eyes of the public.

Once we offroaders have been demonized enough it will be very easy to close huge amounts of public and private land to OHV use.

We just have to stay strong and stay clean, we can be part of the problem, or part of the solution. The more of us who just do our thing, and dont look like *** holes, the better off we will be. And if all hell breaks loose and all public lands are shut down, we always have private property to ride on.

[Outlaw 50]

There is no guarantee that private land is safe from these people...........have you ever heard of "noise pollution restrictions"???

[ti2ibal1]

In 2006, San Bernardino County adopted an ordinance that requires off-road-vehicle riders on private property to have written permission from owners. The most controversial provision requires people planning a gathering of 10 or more riders to get a permit from the county for $155.

Even if it would not have stated what State this "law" was in, I would have guess California.:rolleyes:

[Pappy]

Originally posted by Outlaw 50
With the new bunch of enviro-weinies coming into office at the end of the month it would not surprise me to see many more of these types of articles.

I have no doubt that the media, both print & televised, being another wing of the Democratic Party will work very hard to make any user of offroad vehicles look bad in the eyes of the public.

Once we offroaders have been demonized enough it will be very easy to close huge amounts of public and private land to OHV use.
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I call BS on the 10%ers being "violent". Of the 4.7 million offroad users I would believe more like .0001% are doing "violent" acts against landowners and other riders.

What a crock of sh*t! Don't allow these people to distract you from reality.

McCain nor Obama made a stand on public use of land. No matter what candidate made it to office, the crack down on offroad use was going to be tightened.

We do enough (offroaders) to demonize ourselves, there isnt a need for the media to "create" anything. East of the Mississippi, anything offroad is being targeted as suburbia continues to wipe out the rural lifestyle. Infact the article mentions buyers of atv's with no where to ride as leading the list of people that cause issues....and I see this all the time and agree with it. Just ask many here how many riding areas they have, or dont have and how many have been shut down. You can read for yourself the threads where members openly point out they tresspass just to have a place to ride. No need for the west coast to change, they have been anti offroad forever and will be the first to fall and will set the stage for the rest of us....god forbid we endanger some snail in the desert!

Again, visit any riding spot and you can see the damage we do to ourselves. Every organization that supports ORV use is constantly trying to get us to police ourselves.....and its way more then 1% of the offroad world doing the damage. Its the same for hunters and fisherman, trashed public areas everywhere you look. It might be easiest to single out a small group like atv'rs but fact remains, enough "bad" comes from us that even though we pale in comparison in overall numbers(as compared to all outdoor public users), we will be targeted. The UTV world is seeing this first hand as even the ATVA is having to tackle them as a seperate group that is causing isssues due to the nature of the machine and the new operators it has attracted to our sport(examples? riding off posted trails, increased legal pressure/lawsuits over injuries) You and I know the machine isnt at fault, but thanks to stupidity in our sport we are facing a legal storm over UTV's. Just aother strike against us all.

As far as a crock of ****, sorry, its time to call it like we see it and actually point a finger at anyone that is making ORV use look bad. Im not defending the article at all, but you cant defend alot of what happens daily with regards to ORV users. There is alot of diversity in our sport, another strike against us as we will never unite.

Think about this stuff the next time you see an atv being operated on a roadway illegally, tresspassing, involved in littering or destruction of private property, operated in a manner that promotes injury or extreme risk(drunk etc). Will you make note of the offender or just look the other way? Heck, just look back at some of the heated exchanges on this site alone where someone posted they out ran the police or ditched the landowner. To deny that there arent serious issues relating to our sport is just another reason we are a dying breed. We dont have to go quietly, but I honestly doubt we have the unification powers to rally ourselves into a group that follows through with doing the right thing.

Sorry if anyone disagree's, I just see alot of things in our sport that just adds nails to the coffin and see very few examples of anything positive. Its no wonder we can easily be in the crosshairs, but I have little faith that most will change their ways enough to make a difference.

ti2ibal1.....I lived in a county on the east coast that has made it virtually impossible to legally ride on your own property. Thanks to the "its my land and you can screw off attitude" approach, the legislation passed easily and had alot of public support. Much like the gun control issues, its time for us to have a new approach on how we see ourselves and promote our sport if we have a sliver of a chance at saving it for our children.

[Prey]

I thought it was a fairly good right up. it made issue and reported the words that these actions we coming from the 10 percenters, made it realized with facts the expansion of riders versus reducing riding lands.

10 percenter off-roaders is only going to be reported more often, i know they have done news reports and are doing a study on off road vehicle misuse in baltimore (actually terrorizing motorists on the roads)

DC siezes quads and dirt bikes at the spot of infraction with no chance of getting it back and no auction, they go straight to the crushers.

this crap gives all of us a black eye but it is not the victims nor the reporters fault

[dirtbike&quad]

Originally posted by dsherw00d
I think they should have off-road classes at school like they do for driver-ed. Not official curriculum, but an after school thing maybe run by one of the off road orgs. Let parents sign their kids up for it and show some of the terrible videos that are on youtube and explain safety rules/equipment. Not to mention off road manners:mad:

dumb idea. kids will just go out and be pissed they have to watch that video and do stupid stuff. believe me. there are stupid videos we (ski/snowboarders) have to watch on certain mountains before entering the terrein park...we know what could happen, its so stupid we have to watch the videos, believe me. it just gets people more crazy and wanting to do stupid stuff

[ProspectorJim]

maybe there should be a license for ohv use over a 90cc displacement? Could be set up much like the license test that you have to take when you want to ride you're waverunner or jet ski. Maybe make it a requirement to go to a couple safety classes.

[mxraptor149]

I think the less regulation on us, the better. After all, drunk drivers still kill thousands of people each year.

I have to agree with Pappy. Responsible off-roaders (like the majority of members here) need to unite and be a positive face for the newbies who think it's cool to get drunk and ride on the road without a helmet and the people who have no link to our sport but read articles like these for their only "insight."

Maybe ATVRiders.com can consider some type of partnership with the ATVA, Blue Ribbon Coalition, even the AMA, as a means of encouraging riders to join a responsible, pro-off-road group.

[Pappy]

Originally posted by mxraptor149


Maybe ATVRiders.com can consider some type of partnership with the ATVA

We are heavily involved with the ATVA and other organizations. We do what we can and will continue to promote atv's-utv's in the best way we can.

[Outlaw 50]

Since it appears to me like a lot of people can't see the forest for the trees, it is my guess that the enviro-weinies will be successful at closing down a greater amount of land at a faster rate than ever before........http://i32.tinypic.com/17xoux.gif