400ex head design

[2muchquad]

I think its time honda gets off the snide and gives us some technology.Sure the 400ex might have been a "first" when it was released in 99 but come on,its head design was first seen on the xr250s in the early 80s!Now i understand what they wanted to do with their radial combustion shape design but 20 plus years later they still employ the rocker/subrocker setup!Now this is counter productive when we(lol) are trying to build performance.Theres a lot of parasitic losses going on inside that rocker box/cam cover.When you really sit down and think of it,theres a lot of moving parts.Even a rocker setup like a 300ex would be better than this current design.Its time for honda to upgrade,i know its easier for the average "yo yo" that doesnt have the greatest mechanical ability to adjust valves with rockers instead of re shimming but come on.Stop throwing ol'skool technology down our throats,this is why the 400ex has fell behind the "450s",granted its not a racer but 95% of the 450s dont ever see a track,its been replaced as the best trail bike,even first time riders are buying the 450s.Its a shame honda has a "get everything we can" attitude instead of genuine upgrades,ok reverse in 05,wow so they threw us a bone.Now its just a relic...

[tyman2395]

ya i hear ya i even love the look of the 450r head

yeah they did use a lot of old school i was thinking about it today when riding why would they go air cooled and set it up like they did

[sprayedgt]

It's called simplicity. Most people will build what they want instead of buying it from a dealer. I understand it's not as flashy as a liquid cooled DOHC engine, but it's proven reliability more than makes up for what it may lack in other areas. Why do people complain about a 400ex not being a 450? It's not a 450 and never will be. If you look around enough a fair number of people that bought 450's to trail ride want to get rid of it for a 400.

[rcatvrider]

Most of where i ride is trails and you really don't need a 450. Plus it's fun keeping up or beating bigger machines. In that case, i like the simplicity. If they changed the design now it would probably raise the price quite a bit and then there would be no point to buying a 400 when you could buy a 450 for about the same price.

[Ruby Soho]

if you want an updated head get a 450. the 400ex is out there to be like it is, a slow, reliable trail quad.

[born2ride14]

Suzuki is on the right path, the new Z is WATER COOLED AND FI. The only thing now for suzuki is to get a better suspension setup on the z. Come on honda , step it up! You guys are wayy behind

[sprayedgt]

Originally posted by 300maniac
Suzuki is on the right path, the new Z is WATER COOLED AND FI. The only thing now for suzuki is to get a better suspension setup on the z.
The only problem with the Z400 is it's a Suduki:blah: The 400EX is not slow. Exactly how fast can you really go on tight trails? That is exactly what the 400 was designed for and it does an excellent job of it. You can throw all kinds of bells and whistles, fuel injection, trick suspension, on a quad and make crazy amounts of HP. But when you're 95% of the time going slower than 25 mph and in 2nd and maybe 3rd gear, all the extra RPM's and other crap are pretty much useless other than driving the MSRP up . People that complain about the 400ex being outdated are the ones that still have one. You got it for one reason or type of riding. If your riding style or place you ride changed, then get a new four wheeler that suits that type of riding. There is no "one quad suits all" here guys.

[Ruby Soho]

Originally posted by sprayedgt
The only problem with the Z400 is it's a Suduki:blah: The 400EX is not slow. Exactly how fast can you really go on tight trails? That is exactly what the 400 was designed for and it does an excellent job of it. You can throw all kinds of bells and whistles, fuel injection, trick suspension, on a quad and make crazy amounts of HP. But when you're 95% of the time going slower than 25 mph and in 2nd and maybe 3rd gear, all the extra RPM's and other crap are pretty much useless other than driving the MSRP up . People that complain about the 400ex being outdated are the ones that still have one. You got it for one reason or type of riding. If your riding style or place you ride changed, then get a new four wheeler that suits that type of riding. There is no "one quad suits all" here guys.

your right, its a trail quad.

when you get into the motocross scene, all that stuff really helps, but the racing scene as progressed, and newer quads are now meant for that, the 400ex is now meant to be trail ridden.

[Brauap]

I wouldn't (at all) get your hopes up for a few years.. I think it was/is a good design being how bullet proof the engine is. A stick isn't going to go through the air cooling and blow the engine up (as it could if through a rad.) Also.. I think before they even mess with the 400EX's engine, they'll moddify the 450R, giving in FI and an aluminum frame possibly.. no reason for Honda to change a bullet proof engine.. even if it is low tech. I bet the 400EX engine is out lasting the Z400's. Plus.. the last 2 years Honda had made some pretty extreme changes (:rolleyes: )with the plastics and the amazing name change!! Therefore, don't expect anything for a while.. atleast for the next 4 years (my estimate).

[sprayedgt]

There were 80+ changes from the 07 & '08 model year. Granted the most noticeable change was body work, but ergonomics, clutch pull effort, suspension, and a few other things were changed. All this was done solely to keep it fun without driving the price up.

[Brauap]

Originally posted by sprayedgt
There were 80+ changes from the 07 & '08 model year. Granted the most noticeable change was body work, but ergonomics, clutch pull effort, suspension, and a few other things were changed. All this was done solely to keep it fun without driving the price up.

One more thing is the fact all other companies (STOCK!) have stocks with rezzies.. the 400.. still stuck with the (basically) same design they had back 10-11 years ago!! One easy thing Honda can improve on is their welds, my god! have you ever seen them! HORRIBLE! with splatter everywhere and that.. and they could also just strengthen their frame too.. maybe add some gaskets or something..?

The z400s are junk.. Rode my buddys today. You gotta be on that clutch and giving it gas or else it will just die. The throttle respnse on them are way worse than the 400s too. They dont have that low end feel. Plus we were dead even racing them and when I didnt get a good start Id beat him by a quad length..

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by SuicideMFNdoors
The z400s are junk.. Rode my buddys today. You gotta be on that clutch and giving it gas or else it will just die. The throttle respnse on them are way worse than the 400s too. They dont have that low end feel. Plus we were dead even racing them and when I didnt get a good start Id beat him by a quad length..

There is something seriously wrong with your buddies Z than. Honda 450R's are the worst when it comes to low speed riding and stalling... low fly wheel weight being the main problem.




Look how many of us own or have owned 400ex's though... you think Honda is going to drop this quad out of their line up? Doubtful...

The 400ex has been probably one of the best selling sport quads of all time and it hasn't really been around that long (when compared to say the banshee and the warrior).

Just be glad its not the warrior with its mid 70's technology! haha.

It is what it is, a fun trail bike, that is easy to work on and low maintenance.

2muchquad - you say a 300ex head design would be better... why is that?

[sprayedgt]

Isn't the 300ex a 2 valve head?

Originally posted by sprayedgt
Isn't the 300ex a 2 valve head?

if thats the case... garbage

[rodeo#11]

HONDA NEEDS TO GET WITH THE PROGRAM AND UPDATE THESE 400S! and im just not talking about the head designs either all though something other than air cooled would be nice and more physically appealing ;) i know this is off topic but why does all the other 400s come with way better stock front shocks, why is honda still behind on this?? and for love of all things holy i know they can find a better way to attach the swingarm instead of running that dang bolt threw the bottom part of the motor lol sorry to get a lil off topic here just got on a roll lol

[CJM]

Price and simplicity keep it reliable all day long for most people-thats why.

[2muchquad]

300ex is a 4 valve head,plus it has rockers,the 400 has those plus subrockers,more moving parts.if one read my original post,i never said the 400ex should have been a 450,i just wish for some updates,why does Yamaha beat Honda to the punch with new stuff all the time?

[rcatvrider]

Why is everyone ranking on the 400? We all own them, most happily, we all mod them, what's the fun of a quad that needs no mods? That would take half of the fun and creativity out of this sport. 400ex's are still selling to those who want a reliable trail bike, why change that and make it into something possibly less reliable and harder to work on? Just get a 450 if you want a fancy head.

[2muchquad]

whos rankin on the 400?i

[rcatvrider]

Originally posted by 2muchquad
whos rankin on the 400?i
Everyone is *****ing how honda needs a better design. Why change it if it sells? High tech engineering is for the 450's.

[alberto]

LOVE reading the debate keep it up!!!!!!!!!

[Quadforce]

it is pretty simple.. the 400ex is a blast to ride.. very easy for a beginer to learn how to ride wheelies on and have a great trail bike along with having easy valve adjsutments for beginners. for the all out racers you can make them faster it is just not cheap.. this is my head that I( and father ported ) and it produced 42.6 Hp on a 416 pump gas build.. it ran great ran right with the 450s in the group. also just so you know what you are looking at these are comparison against a TC racing ported head that a friend had. These are all stock valves that were lightened to prevent floating a valve.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj178/quadforce_photo/400ex/MVC-002F-1.jpg
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj178/quadforce_photo/400ex/MVC-003F-1.jpg
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj178/quadforce_photo/400ex/MVC-003F.jpg
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj178/quadforce_photo/400ex/MVC-010F-1.jpg
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj178/quadforce_photo/400ex/MVC-011F-1.jpg
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj178/quadforce_photo/400ex/MVC-005F.jpg
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj178/quadforce_photo/400ex/MVC-009F.jpg

[Quadforce]

couple more...
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj178/quadforce_photo/400ex/MVC-008F.jpg
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj178/quadforce_photo/400ex/MVC-007F.jpg
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj178/quadforce_photo/400ex/MVC-001F.jpg
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj178/quadforce_photo/400ex/MVC-014F.jpg
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj178/quadforce_photo/400ex/MVC-015F.jpg
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj178/quadforce_photo/400ex/MVC-012F.jpg

[400exrider707]

Hey thanks for sharing the pics! pretty interesting...

you posted hp numbers, but what did the rest of the build consist of.... exhaust/cam/carb?

[Quadforce]

thanks it had a sparks pipe , sparks cam, sparks springs and a 39mm sparks FCR, sparks rev box, stock flywheel.. Icoul dhave shaved some weight from the flywheel for more Hp but I am a big guy soI wanted the torque

[Quadforce]

I just posted up over 100 pictures in photo bucket for you to see of 400ex build through the years. started after Hunter Miller cut the bike in half after hitting a tractor on a jump.. luckily he lived and so did the 400ex what I think was a wonderful bike held on to it for years before going 450R
http://s272.photobucket.com/albums/jj178/quadforce_photo/400ex/

[katch26]

its an easy very inexpensive fix to appease both the diehard 400 owners and people on the fence. 450r shocks. end story. While its true you dont have to have the highest HP to blow through the woods you do have to have better suspension than the 400 offers. Someone mentioned price but is Honda really competitive in that dept? Theyre selling it for the same price as bikes with newer/current technology. Its very simple really leave the 400 the way it is for LESS than what they are currently selling it for or update it and keep the price point on par with the other 400 class machines. Dollar per dollar the new 400x is one of the worst values out there considering its resale value.

Originally posted by katch26
Dollar per dollar the new 400x is one of the worst values out there considering its resale value.

and it looks like ****

[katch26]

Originally posted by FoxHondaRider
and it looks like ****

lol thats a matter of opinion....I myself am partial to the bugeyes. I personally think the 400 is one of those quads you just have to own at some point in your ATV life and think it would be hard for me to come out of pocket for a brand new one when you could get one a couple years old for 1/3 the cost and there is literally no difference.

but enough about that.....back on track:)

Originally posted by 300maniac
Suzuki is on the right path, the new Z is WATER COOLED AND FI. The only thing now for suzuki is to get a better suspension setup on the z. Come on honda , step it up! You guys are wayy behind

lol, the suzuki does come with gas shocks all the way around and recently widened it along with lowering the seat height.

The new z-400 has gas shocks, liquid cooling, reverse, slightly more power, and fuel injection all for $6,199

The 400ex is still outdated air-cooled, carburetorated, non-rezzy shocks. etc. For $6,149

If I were in the market for a new 400... it's an obvious choice who I would go with.

If suzuki can incorporate so much into their z400 for the same price why cant honda at least give us gas shocks?

As far as im concerned, honda can go screw themselves. They dont give a damn about our sport and are too busy building jets and cars.:ermm:

Originally posted by DMC-4OOEX
The new z-400 has gas shocks

lol big whoop there the 400ex has them too just not resevoirs on the fronts like the Z has

[katch26]

Originally posted by DMC-4OOEX
l
The 400ex is still outdated air-cooled, carburetorated, non-rezzy shocks. etc. For $6,149

If I were in the market for a new 400... it's an obvious choice who I would go with.

If suzuki can incorporate so much into their z400 for the same price why cant honda at least give us gas shocks?



bingo......thats exactly why I think new its one of thepoorest values.....used in another story though

Originally posted by FoxHondaRider
lol big whoop there the 400ex has them too just not resevoirs on the fronts like the Z has

Yes, I know that, but who are you kidding. The z400 shocks are far superior to that of the 400ex. Or the front, at least.

If I wasn't do worried about modding the banshee, I was gonna buy some rezzy shocks off a z for the 400. They bolt right up with no fitment issues whatsoever and same length.

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by DMC-4OOEX
Yes, I know that, but who are you kidding. The z400 shocks are far superior to that of the 400ex. Or the front, at least.

If I wasn't do worried about modding the banshee, I was gonna buy some rezzy shocks off a z for the 400. They bolt right up with no fitment issues whatsoever and same length.


I had a set of Z400 shocks laying around before that I put on my 450R and it made it ride super stiff for some reason...

I think I had sold my stock shocks and didn't have any other way to ride that day so I threw those on. I believe the eyelet for the top shock mount was wider than the mount was, took some force to get it in there too.

Originally posted by 400exrider707
I had a set of Z400 shocks laying around before that I put on my 450R and it made it ride super stiff for some reason...

I think I had sold my stock shocks and didn't have any other way to ride that day so I threw those on. I believe the eyelet for the top shock mount was wider than the mount was, took some force to get it in there too.

what year shock?

The 03-04 Z400 shocks look like identical twins to the stock 400ex shock. Like zuki was trying to copy them.

So then I figured the new style would bolt up because they didnt change the shock mounting they changed the shock itself.

[2muchquad]

Its very simple really leave the 400 the way it is for LESS than what they are currently selling it for or update it and keep the price point on par with the other 400 class machines. Dollar per dollar the new 400x is one of the worst values out there considering its resale value.


im glad somebody was feelin'me.This is what i was trying to say,update the freakin'thing already honda:ermm:

I liked back when it was all 400s, 250r's and hybrids when if you wanted a fast high performance quad you had to build it. And I loved the way the older quads built for racing looked. I wish the 450s never even came out.

Now the dealers are making all their quads look like they came from the video game atvoffroad fury 4. The stupidest thing honda ever did was put 450r type plastic on it same with suzuki making all their suzukies look the same.

[2muchquad]

yeap,its called marketing.Thats why theres a raptor 700,350 and 90?I guess kids want the same as dad.

[hondaman146]

i personally like the 450r plastics and hate the 400x plastics, but i also love the original 99-04 400ex plastics

Originally posted by hondaman146
i personally like the 450r plastics and hate the 400x plastics, but i also love the original 99-04 400ex plastics

x2

I didn't really like the 05 style nearly as much as the 99 style at first. But you would be surprised how your opinion changes when you own it.
I've come to like these style plastics more. They look more aggressive then the 99's from a distance and when sitting on it, plus with handguards they look pretty sick.

Now its my favorite style.

Kind of like my dad also. He hated the way banshee's looked until he owned one for a while then it grew on him and he loves it.

I would rather drive somthing that looks like a frog(older400ex) than drive somthing that looks like a lady bug (450r/newer400ex)

z's look ugly.. who wants to ride on a highlighter. But I agree about the suspension. Honda should at least add some rezzy shocks on the 400 and call it a day.

[sc400ex_rider]

i wish someone would make a water cooled head or big fin cylinder. i mean the yfz and alot of others already have the ice cylinders or bigger jugs and stuff.

[2muchquad]

it'll probably never happen because most of the aftermarket is busy makin bling for the 450s:D i heard somebody made a water cooled cylinder at one time but it was costly.I'd be willing to bet a cylinder from a nx250 or nx 650 could be grafted on a 400ex bottomend,at least the 250 anyhow,it would need to be resleeved though.Anything can be done though...with cash