440 stroker cam???

[78ta]

I'm planning on building a 440 stroker this winter, somewhere in the range of 11:1 compression. And I am trying to figure out what cam to run.

Anyone have a stroker 400ex and what cam are you running? What rpm was the power range, low-mid-high? I'm thinking of building a torque monster trail bike and I don't really ride WOT mutch. I would like the power to start early down low and have a STRONG midrange.


The rest of the engine is going to be mild, some porting mainly just cleanup and smoothing. Stock head pipe welds already ground down and polished, slip on hmf, and I'm keeping lid on the airbox.


Remember, I'm building a TRAIL bike, If I wanted a top end HP bike I would be building a 450r right now!


Please don't respond to this question unless you have or have ridden any stroker 400ex's. I would like to keep this as informative as possible.

[Wheelie]

I'm running a 440 stroker w/ a stage 3 Hotcams. Very strong mid-top. If you're looking for low-mid, I'd recommend the stg 2.

[78ta]

what's your thoughts on the stage 1 hotcam for a stroker, the only thing I have read that they are not recommended for big bores, I have not found out why yet though. Looks like I may end up getting a custom ground cam, or even trying the stocker or xr cam and see how it runs.

I am a little worried with the stage 2 that I will give up more off idle torque than I want to

Originally posted by 78ta
what's your thoughts on the stage 1 hotcam for a stroker, the only thing I have read that they are not recommended for big bores, I have not found out why yet though. Looks like I may end up getting a custom ground cam, or even trying the stocker or xr cam and see how it runs.

I am a little worried with the stage 2 that I will give up more off idle torque than I want to

Stage 1 isnt really sufficient for a big bore thats probally why. They work great on closer to stock or smaller bores. 440 big bore I like the stage 2. 440 stroker I like the stage 3. With the stroker motor and stage 3 its gonna pull real hard.

[Wheelie]

The stage 1 won't be enough cam to feed the stroker. Even with my stage 3, low end is slightly stronger now than it was with an internally stock engine. The stage 2 will work great IMO.

[78ta]

thanks for the input guys.

I haven't looked at the cam specs for each of the cams yet. anyone have the specs for hotcams 1,2,3 and stock and xr400 cams they wanna post up?


Anyone have any other cam in their stroker motors other than hotcams?

[tyman2395]

hope this helps

On to the specs!!

cam: Intake lift; Exhaust lift; Intake duration; Exhaust duration

stock............... .316, .302, 234, 238

XR400.............. .326, .321, 240, 244
HRC................. .350, .339, 254, 256
GT Thunder....... .350, .345, 256, 256
WB Track.......... .350, .345, 256, 256
WB All Around.... .345, .335, 240, 248
WEB 450/451..... .350, .345, 256, 256
WEB 479........... .378, .378, 250, 250
WEB 463/9i....... .385, .370, 272, 270
Hotcams stg 1... .354, .354, 246, 246------Intake centerline 106, Exhaust centerline 107
Hotcams stg 2... .354, .350, 254, 248.5----Intake centerline 106, Exhaust centerline 104.25
HC stg 2 (old).... .348, .349, 254, 254------Intake centerline 106, Exhaust centerline 107
Hotcams stroker. .358, .354, 262, 257------Intake centerline 110.5, Exhaust centerline 104.5
Megacycle x1..... .346, .346, 246, 246
Megacycle X2..... .378, .378, 254, 254
Megacycle X6..... .402, .385, 270, 262

[78ta]

thanks, that was great!!! exactly what I was looking for.

on a side note, who makes the megacycle cams? never heard of them. are they drop in or do you need to run hardened rockers like webb cams?


Time for more research!!!!

[Chukkinsod]

I'd roll with the hard weld rockers....never know where your going to go with this build.

[Wheelie]

Hard weld rockers add a lot of cost. Hotcams are drop in, no need for hard weld rockers.

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by Chukkinsod
I'd roll with the hard weld rockers....never know where your going to go with this build.

What happens if he uses hard weld rockers on a hotcam? It'll chew the cam up...

the cam needs to match the rockers.



From the sounds of your build a 440ex is almost too much, a 416 would be better suited. No point going that large of a bore to run stock headpipe and carb setup. JMO.

[Wheelie]

The stock EX headpipe is actually a pretty good piece, TC recommends using the stock headpipe on their 505. I don't think it will prove to be an issue.

The stock carb will hold him back, but for a low-mid rpm 440, it will work great. I ran a stock carb on my stroker for nearly 2 years and it worked fine.

[78ta]

Thanks wheelie for all the input.

I think some people are not understanding what direction I'm going with this.

For the record, I want to build a very strong low to midrange engine. That is why I'm building a stroker to begin with, for the added torque. I am also wanting to build a super reliable trail quad that will not overheat when chasing the old lady around the trails on her 400ex. That is why I'm staying with the smaller bore and 11:1 or lower compression. The trails I ride are pretty tight and nasty. I would say 75% of the time I'm on this quad I'm at or below 3/4 throttle and rarely above 3rd gear. So I'm thinking stock headpipe and stock carb will help the low end and midrange that I'm after, A larger carb would work fine but the smaller will give better throttle response and stronger bottom and mid power because it will keep the velocity of air/fuel up in the lower rpm ranges as opposed to a larger carb that will work a lot better WOT and give some up at the bottom. Same for the stock head pipe.


Plus I can always upgrade later when I get tired of this combo with bigger carb, headpipe, and cam to completely change the way this thing runs!!!




Now for my next question, I'm seriously looking at the Stage 1 hotcam now, if the cam specs that tyman2935 posted are correct. There seems to be some mixing of standard and metric specs there I have to figure out, but the cam INT. EX. lift looks great, same ballpark as the other two stages and just a little more duration than stock.

I have built more SBC's than I can count on both hands so I know a little bit about cam specs and what numbers mean what and where the rpm range the engine will run best, but I don't know exactly how these numbers I know with SBC's will compare with ATV engines because this will be the first aftermarket cam I have ever put in one.


Anybody else think I should try it??? Worst case senario it will fall on its face horribly and I'll just have to buy the stage 2 and swap in, not the end of the world IMO.


sorry for the book

[jedneck]

My old 440 big bore was great on the low end.
It had 12.5 piston, stage 1 cam, stock carb, ported head, and full exhaust. off the line it would pull on a tc built yfz. In thw woods it was all rider skill, It would run with em all.

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by 78ta
Thanks wheelie for all the input.

I think some people are not understanding what direction I'm going with this.

For the record, I want to build a very strong low to midrange engine. That is why I'm building a stroker to begin with, for the added torque. I am also wanting to build a super reliable trail quad that will not overheat when chasing the old lady around the trails on her 400ex. That is why I'm staying with the smaller bore and 11:1 or lower compression. The trails I ride are pretty tight and nasty. I would say 75% of the time I'm on this quad I'm at or below 3/4 throttle and rarely above 3rd gear. So I'm thinking stock headpipe and stock carb will help the low end and midrange that I'm after, A larger carb would work fine but the smaller will give better throttle response and stronger bottom and mid power because it will keep the velocity of air/fuel up in the lower rpm ranges as opposed to a larger carb that will work a lot better WOT and give some up at the bottom. Same for the stock head pipe.


Plus I can always upgrade later when I get tired of this combo with bigger carb, headpipe, and cam to completely change the way this thing runs!!!




Now for my next question, I'm seriously looking at the Stage 1 hotcam now, if the cam specs that tyman2935 posted are correct. There seems to be some mixing of standard and metric specs there I have to figure out, but the cam INT. EX. lift looks great, same ballpark as the other two stages and just a little more duration than stock.

I have built more SBC's than I can count on both hands so I know a little bit about cam specs and what numbers mean what and where the rpm range the engine will run best, but I don't know exactly how these numbers I know with SBC's will compare with ATV engines because this will be the first aftermarket cam I have ever put in one.


Anybody else think I should try it??? Worst case senario it will fall on its face horribly and I'll just have to buy the stage 2 and swap in, not the end of the world IMO.


sorry for the book


I know exactly what you're looking for and I just dont think its worth the trouble doing a 440 stroker motor when you will probably be plenty happy with a simple 416 bore job and a good cam.

I guess I just dont see the point in building a big bore motor for mild output when you can just build a mild motor and get the same output with less work and less cost!?

To each their own, just throwing my opinion out.


I did a simple 11:1 stock bore and a stage 1 hotcam and I had all I could do to keep the front end down on stock suspension.


Another question for you... what do you have for suspension currently?

[78ta]

+1 arms stock shocks for now, complete 450r front brake swap. good stuff for the tight nasty woods riding I do.

I'm going with a stroker just for the added torque that a longer stroke will get you, plus I can turn this thing into a nasty high hp motor with just a few parts swaps when I get tired of it. I explained all this in the previous post. Another reason is I have a bottom end that needs a crankshaft that I swapped out of my wifes bike and if your buying a crank for just a few bucks more you can get a stroker. better to do the bottom end once the way you want than to do wish you had done the stroker crank later down the road.

[78ta]

400exrider707, do you have any experiance with a stroker 400ex?

[78ta]

jedneck, how was the midrange of your 440 bigbore with the stage 1 hotcam? Did it fall on its face in the upper rpm range very bad? Sounds like your bike will be run very similar to what I'm thinking of doing.

a 440 stroker done up right rapes any 400ex with just an over bore. The longer stroke makes it so much quicker, fastest quad I have riden

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by 78ta
+1 arms stock shocks for now, complete 450r front brake swap. good stuff for the tight nasty woods riding I do.

I'm going with a stroker just for the added torque that a longer stroke will get you, plus I can turn this thing into a nasty high hp motor with just a few parts swaps when I get tired of it. I explained all this in the previous post. Another reason is I have a bottom end that needs a crankshaft that I swapped out of my wifes bike and if your buying a crank for just a few bucks more you can get a stroker. better to do the bottom end once the way you want than to do wish you had done the stroker crank later down the road.


If all you do is woods riding I'd recommend suspension before doing anything else, but like I said to each their own.

It makes more sense if you already have it apart and it needs a crank, that wasn't mentioned before.

I understand the stroker will give more torque.

What else are you planning on upgrading while its apart? Definitely do the CRF450 cam chain, and you may want to think about the head studs.

I have not built any stroke 400 motors, but I am familiar with the internals of the 400ex and I build all my own motors. I'm now a 450 owner, but I still know how an engine works.

A motor is only as good as it's built, as long as you choose quality components and do everything right and take your time, it should be a lot of fun when it's done.

My last piece of advice is upgrade the suspension simultaneously or first.

[78ta]

If all you do is woods riding I'd recommend suspension before doing anything else, but like I said to each their own.



try to keep this on topic please,

my question is what cam will work best for this stroker motor I'm building , not about suspension.

stage 3 hotcam

[Quadforce]

I built a 416 not a stroker but I had the stage 2 hot cam before and I really liked the Sparks cam alot better.. required more to use it .. we had to clearence the head and put in different guides so that it would not cut the valve seals but it was a beast. I am a big guy and it was awesome.. made very smooth power throught out the entire band.

[jedneck]

It made very good usable power everywhere. It would pull all the was to the limiter. I ran 13/38 gearing with a 20 inch tire in the back.

my friends 2005 440 stroker was 15/39 +1000rpm or somehing stage 3 hotcam it was nuts pulled right up there like it was nothing. absolutley raped other 440's and was beatin 450's that were piped and simple stuff