won't start

[desert doc]

I have a 2004 that the water pump seals and the head gasket needed changed. I replaced both following the manual and was very exact in re setting the cams and the timing. Before i started any repairs the quad ran fine other than the overheating issues. I have looked at everything and she will not start. It only backfires from time to time and won't even pull start. i have tried starting fluid and only catches the intake on fire. It's getting spark and some what sure it's getting fuel. I can see the carb squirt fuel with the throttle. Should I rotate the flywheel around and reset timing? Thought's?

[Ride1Rob]

It's your timing. Pullstarting it with the timing off can slam your valves into your piston causing them to bend or break. Hopefully this didn't happen :uhoh:

[desert doc]

The timing is back exactly as it was when taken apart and it matches the specs in the manuel. I hate to do over again to have it set the same way. A guy told me to try reset timing and rotate flywheel as it may not be firing on compression and exhust stroke.
I did not adjust valves because they were in spec but pushing it. Do you think it may help?

[Ride1Rob]

If the valves are in spec they don't need adjusting. Is this your first time working on this motor? I'm alil skeptical about you setting the timing back correct. If it's off one tooth the bike won't start.

[daddio]

As long as you had the TDC timing mark lined up with the mark on the side cover, and the lobes on the cams were basicly horizontal and pointing in oppisite directions, and the "dots" on the cam gears were in line with the cam cover surface, the timing is correct.

I put a screwdriver down the spark plug hole to verify that I am at top dead center. I turn the motor over until the screwdriver is at its "highest" position, then look for the marks on the flywheel.

Did you take the motor out of the quad? Did you un plug any wires and not get them pluged back in all the way?

[rt20ps]

Originally posted by desert doc
The timing is back exactly as it was when taken apart and it matches the specs in the manuel. I hate to do over again to have it set the same way. A guy told me to try reset timing and rotate flywheel as it may not be firing on compression and exhust stroke.
I did not adjust valves because they were in spec but pushing it. Do you think it may help?

It fires on both strokes so you don't need to worry about being 180 out. I agree with these guys, sounds like the timing is off. You don't have to take it all the way back apart, just pull the valve cover and recheck your marks. The mark on the flywheel can be tricky the first time.

As long as all of the valves have proper lash, you can rule that out. You can rule out the carb also, starting fluid would've worked if it was your carb.

[desert doc]

I DIDN'T REMOVE MOTOR AND ONLY UNHOOKED THE WIRING ON THE FENDERS FOR THE KEY AND N THE CARB TO CLEAN IT OUT WHEN IT WOULD NOT START. tHAT IS A GOOD IDEA WITH THE SCREW DRIVER. SHOULD I SET THE TIMING TO THE SCREWDRIVER TDC IF IT DOES NOT MATCH MARKS ON FLYWHEEL?

[Ride1Rob]

If the timing is not at TDC on the flywheel and the dots on the cam sprockets are not where they're supposed to be the bike IS NOT going to start. Look at the pics below. The dots on the cams should be in this location spot on! The flywheel mark should be lined up like the second pic.

http://img6.uploadhouse.com/fileuploads/3194/3194583d69dfba4300c241536482de2c5f8c41a.jpg (http://www.uploadhouse.com/viewfile.php?id=3194583&showlnk=0)

http://img8.uploadhouse.com/fileuploads/3194/31945842b35f6014810bc01b4e41849508c9187.jpg (http://www.uploadhouse.com/viewfile.php?id=3194584&showlnk=0)

[daddio]

Originally posted by desert doc
I DIDN'T REMOVE MOTOR AND ONLY UNHOOKED THE WIRING ON THE FENDERS FOR THE KEY AND N THE CARB TO CLEAN IT OUT WHEN IT WOULD NOT START. tHAT IS A GOOD IDEA WITH THE SCREW DRIVER. SHOULD I SET THE TIMING TO THE SCREWDRIVER TDC IF IT DOES NOT MATCH MARKS ON FLYWHEEL?

If the screwdriver trick for TDC and your flywheel marks are not the same, your flywheel may be loose or the key has sheared.

Did you take the flywheel off?

Great pics and explanition, Rob.
Note....... that picture is WITHOUT the cam mod.

[desert doc]

thanks for the info and the pics fellas. I will check out timing the weekend and see what happens.

[desert doc]

THANKS FOR THE HELP. i ADJUSTED THE SHIMS ON THE VALVES AND TURNED THE FLYWHEEL OVER ONE MORE TIME AND RESET THE TIMING. IT FIRED RIGHT UP. nOW THAT THE SHIMS HAVE BEEN CHANGED, HOW LONG UNTIL A VALVE JOB IS NEEDED?
I AM OFF TO GLAMIS,
THANKS

[JoePA]

How many valves needed to be shimmed and how drastic of a shim did you have to install?

For an Example...I just went through a 450 tonight and did the cam mod and went through the entire carb. I did have to adjust one valve and it had a 192 in place and I went to a 190 and it was right in spec. I'm not that concerned about it due to it being just one size in the shim kit.

KEEP YOUR AIR CLEANER CLEAN and change your oil often. This will help your valves and guides live a long and happy life. If I were you I would check them every couple of oil changes...better to catch it in time than eat a valve.




Joe

[Ride1Rob]

Originally posted by JoePA
How many valves needed to be shimmed and how drastic of a shim did you have to install?

For an Example...I just went through a 450 tonight and did the cam mod and went through the entire carb. I did have to adjust one valve and it had a 192 in place and I went to a 190 and it was right in spec.
Joe

You mean a 195.

[JoePA]

No it was a 192. That is the factory shim.

[Ride1Rob]

10-4, I've only seen them in increments of 5. The stock shims #'s are majority of the time worn off also.

[JoePA]

I said the same as you...my hot cams shim kit is increments of 5. Ah the joys of factory and aftermarket parts!!

[desert doc]

sorry guys for the lag time in response. I changed all 5 shimms. Using the chart and feeler it came out to all them needing a 170 shimm. I think I am about to the end and will need a valve job soon. What do you guys think? Had it at Glamis for New Years and it ran like a champ.