ATV motocross 90-125cc 4 stroke class

[CAIN730]

The atva motocross proposed 90 auto class is not a good option for the trx90. I spoke with Racer productions about it and they are open to the idea of having a 90 to 125cc 4 stroke class but you guys have to let them know that you want to run it. In my opinion this is the best option for the Hondas and kymcos. It will cost $1000+ to go with a manual clutch or even to just go back to idle in gear. If your running a cobra please keep your comments to yourself, we dont want to hear about it here in this thread. If you want to run a 4 stroke class next year then send an email to info@atvmotocross.com and let them know that you would like to see this class running at the atva nats next year. You only have until the 22nd to get it done.

Thanks!
Scott Cain

[Ryko racing]

Scott, we do race a COBRA and last year was our first year running the Nationals, I for one think that the whole argument has been blown out of proportion.The competition was very good last season and the lap times were competitive and the championships were close(CHECK THE POINTS IN 90 JR). My son likes his Cobra, personally, I would rather have a honda but I am not the rider.

In my opinion, this whole argument is bad for the sport as we do not need separate classes for separate brands. You do a great job building your motors which are very competitive. We as Cobra riders have had the choice of running an expensive clutch to fit the rules or not running the class also. I understand both sides of this argument and am not going to argue which side is right. I have spoken with Sam and he has said that he researched this with a well named Honda builder and was assured that it was not a huge ordeal to convert these to auto clutch's. Its funny that
the kids racing do not care what type of clutch anyone has they just want to race. I dont know about anyone else but this has just given us an extra class to race without having to build an extra quad and I believe that that was SAM'S plan also. It is meant to be a stepping stone class to the Mods.
I thank you for allowing me to post and I am sure that we can all come to a fair decision for the kids and promoters.

[CAIN730]

I had 22 riders running those two classes last year. Sam might have talked to the wrong engine builder. It will cost these guys at least $1000 to go either way as proposed. Anything less will just be chasing the field. I have well over 100 trx90's out there and I don't need the business bad enough to lobby for a change that will do nothing but get in everyones pocket.

[mxkids]

Scott, you say the 90 auto class is not a good option for the Hondas. According to the rules as they are now there is a 90 auto and a 90 prod. class. According to Sam in the 90 prod class it is a run whatever clutch you want as long as you are within cc's. So why would you want a TRX90 only class? I understand cost, ect... we went thru this same thing when Cobras had to put a Auto clutch in to be legal.

According to Wade you were working on a Auto Clutch that would work in both classes:

quote:
This is great, after last year Scott has worked hard designing a new Auto-Clutch for the Trx-90. It is bad ***!!! You will be able to run this clutch in the 90 production auto idle in gear class or the any clutch welcome class. This is the fastest SCR Motor yet. With this new rule we are going to run the any clutch welcome class one more year. Can't wait

Wade


Just trying to figure this out.

Sonia

[Ryko racing]

Scott,

I understand that you have a successful team of Hondas running and that you do know what you are talking about with these engines.

The point of the cost factor I also understand as we go through it weekly. Our clutch costs $ 500 bucks plus we need new friction discs every race $50.00 and new oil every 2 motos. I know that is our choice but we have been going through this for 2 years now with our clutches( i am not complaining just making a point).

We just dont want to drive 10 hrs to a National to race with only a handful of riders ( which is what will happen if we keep adding classes). Plus racing is about competing with more than just 1 brand. We plan on using our auto clutch in both classes as the rulebook allows it.
Lets give it a try and maybe we will all be surprised, besides the best riders will almost always rise to the top.

Thank you to the promoters group for at least trying to make the majority happy. At least we know that you are listening.

[CAIN730]

Hard to see how they are making the majority happy when there were maybe 5 cobras in auto senior last year. Hope you 5 guys have fun racing by yourself in production class next year if the rules get applied as proposed. Like I said, if you ride a cobra START YOUR OWN THREAD!

[Ryko racing]

Scott, good luck to you and your team. Ihope that you all havea great season.

I am sure that we will get a decent turnout as racing is bigger than any of us.

I think that all the kids are great. I think that we all could use a lesson from them. I am sorry for going on" YOUR" thread... Iwill not come back.

I for one dont care what anyone runs, as I said before it truly is about the kids and if they are having fun I have succeeded as a racerdad.

Merry Christmas

[Steven623]

Hi Scott,
I have a solution for you.Just put the auto clutch back in and don't charge them for it. You were the one who took it out and said it was legal . Or you can let them run the any clutch class as is. You started all of this back in July. Now your not feeling good about the classes? Your clutches were illegal then and they are illegal now for the auto class . But if you would have kept your thoughts to yourself , this would not be happening?

[CAIN730]

No sorry, Brandon Tittle is the one who started it. He is the one that pointed out to us that paul was hooking his back brake lever up as a clutch lever saying that it was illegal and we should protest. The whole problem here is a few cobra builders doing all the talking telling everyone how our "illegal honda" works. These are the hondas that were "illegal" a full year and a half before there was a cobra with 4 wheels. If they knew how to build an engine then a 90cc two stroke or even an 80 cc two stroke would have no problem beating a 125cc 4 stroke. THis thread is a perfect example. 3 cobra owners are the only ones here running their mouths.

[mxkids]

Hey Scott, since we don't race a cobra does this mean I have permission to speak????? Tough. (This is a public forum). My bikes just have cobra frames. For the last 2 years all you have done is b---- and complain about what u want to race aginist. There is a lot of good kids out there. Why dont u just let them race and have fun. I also have a lot of customers on cobras that i will get to call/email Sam. Maybe you will get your 4 stroke class where you can build all of the motors your little heart desires.

Scott I personaly don't care what they do to the classes or if you respond. I am just glad u could get that off your chest, maybe u will feel better after a good nights sleep.


Brandon Tittle

[mxkids]

Scott,

I am sorry to bust your bubble, But I am the one who come up with the manual foot clutch for the cobra. Think I told you on the phone. All I said was that if you could run a manual foot clutch SO could we. According to Doug Morris when I called and asked about it in 07, he said that YES, we could do this, it is no different than what the Hondas are doing. Since we decided not to run the class this last season, I thought I would let someone else do it. If my boys would have been running the class, we would have had it as well.

Brandon

BTW, I never told you to protest anyone. That was your call.

Brandon

[mxkids]

Also Scott, according to Robbs Racing in a previous post he was the FIRST to do this style cutch in a Honda back in 05. If I am correct the Cobras come out in 2005.

We seem to have had no problem beating a 125 4 stroke when we ran the 90 prod sr class or even the jr class. In 06 or 07.

I don't think you have any cobra builders are saying how illegal your honda motors are. I still have all of the emails from Morris to prove that they were both legal. But, that was then, we have new rules for next season. Sorry if you don't like them. How do you figure you are illegal now? There is a class for ALL clutches and one for the auto clutch. What is the problem???????

BTW, I don't build cobras, I just sell them.......



need to get your facts right.........

[aaamich]

Scott, Your not afraid of snakes are you!!

When it comes to changing class structure, it affects all riders not just honda riders. So you will get comments from all riders.

Troy Szymborski

[CAIN730]

I would like to point out the fact that the "manual foot clutch" you refer to us having is the unmodified clutch from the stock motor and it functions exactly as the stock motor does. It can not be slipped coming out of the turns or used in any way to keep the rpm's up on the motor. This is the clutch that automatically engages just like a stock trx90 when you shift. The only difference is that it doesn't idle in gear. Man thats really some shadey stuff isn't it. Brandon, why dont you just pull out that cobra in house built 4 stroke motor you were telling me you were testing 2 years ago at lorettas and race with us:rolleyes: Smitty may not understand how motors work but I do. The foot clutch was strait up illegal by any interpretation of the rules. You three are on the other side of the fence and you always will be. But rest assured that you guys will not be the only ones wining to RP trying to swing the rules your way, we have let you do that for too long now.

P.S. No protest was ever filed by a honda parent but when the rumor spread about it paul sure did yank that foot clutch off his bike in a hurry then run and file his own protest. Kind of makes you think he might have thought it was illegal too. My advise to everyone was to just go talk to him about it and tell him that they didn't think it was legal but no one had the gutts to go do it and I wasn't there. I would have never blindsided someone with a protest, that would only hurt the kids.

[Steven623]

That isn't what you said and posted on here before the national?

[mxkids]

As I was walking from sign ups Smitty stopped me and told me if I knew any Cobra rider that was running a foot clutch they would be pulled off the line and disqualifed. So yes, I did go to Paul and tell him he better pull it off if he wants to race.

As far as the cobra 4 stroke you are talking about, I don't know what Cobra ever done with it, call and ask them. Last time I seen it, it was sitting on a shelf. I never said that I was testing it. I just said they had one, if they wanted to build a 4 stroke cobra they could.

As far as holding the shifter up on the hondas, thats not what was in question. It was when you take the centrifical clutch out and direct drive it. Scott how long have you been building trx 9o's? We bought our first honda 50 10 year ago. I have 2 now, and have owned many honda 4 strokes, which I have all worked on. I know how it works.

All I can say is swing the rules however you want, this is what YOU wanted, this is what you got, I wanted the manual clutch on the cobra in the prod class. I didn't get that. Instead they give us another class with a manual clutch and you can run your honda clutch.

[aaamich]

Why don't we add a 90 cc 4-stroke stock class, a 125 4-stroke auto class, a 90 4-stroke production class, a 125 4-stroke production class on top of the 90 CVT, 90 auto Jr, 90 auto Sr, 90 production and 90 mod. This way every quad will have a class to run in without having to spend any money. Then think of it we would have 9 national 90 cc champions and 45 riders in the top five.

We don't need more classes, we need more riders in the classes we already have! We race the nationals to race against the best riders, not a sub-set of the best riders.

Here are the facts, last year the honda 125 rode by Colby Gilcrest was the fastest quad in the 90 Sr class by about 2 sec and he rode against the best cobra had or offer. If anything, the cobra riders should want a class of their own.

This fact proves that the honda can compete on a level playing field. Mr. Cain said if you take Colby Gilbrest out of the equation, then the cobras dominate. This is because Colby is the last of the "old school rider" at the nationals on TRX's.

As of 2006, cobra came out with a 50cc quad and changed everything. Those of us who started racing cobra's in the 50cc class kept on racing them in the 70cc class and now the 90 cc class. These are the "new school riders". After a kid has raced a cobra for 2 or 3 years, it is very hard, maybe impossible to get them to change to a honda, even if the honda is faster. The second fact is cobra's seem faster because most of the experienced riders started on cobras and remain on cobra's. But the honda is faster. Look at Colby Gilcrests times.

What we should be concentrating on is how to get the gates full in the 90 Jr/Sr classes with the best riders in the country, not fragmenting the classes even more. Any ideas please post.

Troy Szymborski

[mxkids]

does anybody know how much SCR charges to build a trx90 motor into a national 125 with all the bells and whistles? just curious.

[CAIN730]

About 1/3 of what a suzuki 450 motor will cost you from ATP. And the profit margin is about 1/3 of what it is for a cobra motor. Here we go again, the professor is going to put his pencil to it, drawing from his extensive xr50 pitbike experience :D

[mxkids]

1/3 the cc,s should be 1/3 of the price . never priced one of your motors! all i heard is rumors , just thought id ask. i have alot of kids on smaller bikes. parents ask these kind of questions. i guess now i know what to tell them { twice as much as a cobra}:devil:

[bowtiedmax]

WOW!! I feel a little left out being the only 125 4 stroke CVT HaHa. So I quess I will throw out my worries and thoughts.
* As far as having ANY kind of clutch on the gate? This is a huge plus for who has it, and a negitive against us. I sure wish we could stand on the rev limiter and let go of any clutch with his foot,hand butt or whatever.
* We dont need more classes!! Lets just come up with some rules and stay in the limits.
Scott your motor are just fast. I know back in 2006 we all Hondas, Colbras, Etons evrything raced in the JR. Class and we did good. Last year in WPSA we still held are own but it was getting harder because the holeshot advantange of a "free rev" was to much to overcome. But I also know that Ive been running the exact motor set up for three years and you guys have been working hard on getting faster.
But personally, I would like to see all the quads sitting on the gate with a motor doing what it was designed by the factory to do.
If its only a few little things differant. Then put the little heavy pieces back in and avoid all this hassel.
QUOTE by Scott !! [I would like to point out the fact that the "manual foot clutch" you refer to us having is the unmodified clutch from the stock motor and it functions exactly as the stock motor does. It can not be slipped coming out of the turns or used in any way to keep the rpm's up on the motor. This is the clutch that automatically engages just like a stock trx90 when you shift. The only difference is that it doesn't idle in gear.]

By this quote it doesnt hardly seem like its worth the hassel!
I just think we have enough classes as is. I would hate to have so many classes that we spend all the money to go race and only race against 8 kids. I kinda liked 2006 were we had 2-3 gates at each event (4 gates at lorettas).
There is always the mod classes for the wild and crazy stuff that doesnt fit in any of the production classes.
I just hope everyone just sticks to a class and stops bickering next year. But then again, I think some people like the drama. I, like most hate it, and this is why most people went to WPSA.

[Ryko racing]

Very well said.

[COLTBNME]

I believe the WPSA had a four stroke class for the 90cc.
Maybe that is why people were not bickering.

Proud MOM of Colton Kellum#484
2007 Hetrick Honda TRX125

[Ryko racing]

I believe that they did have a 4 stroke only class. I do not know if it was successful or not as we never raced a WPSA race. I do know that they had some good ideas and we raced snox with them in MIchigan. They sort of ran the other promoters out of Michigan and then did not deliver on their promises.
As i said they had some good ideas but a poor business model.
I feel that the ATVA did try to make everyone happy with this decision, but lets remember that they still need to make money to survive or there will be no series.

[lilman]

ha ahaa hah i thought we had trouble only in canada! i bought a typhoon last year and my kid took both championships and 2nd at nats, they said he has to race mods this year so i now have a honda trx125 and a jb cr85 if the honda is lacking they are both within our mod rules but peoplr here arent building anything like ant of you guys run,all we can do is hope the kids arent hearing all of our *****ing all they want is to race the more the merryier. it is for the kids right? of course i like to see damon pull the holeshots as you like your kids to! i removed his rear brake midway so he couldent load it and launch so fast<i know but he dosent use it anyway as the 4 stroke engine breaks so well>it was really helpful for him he came in with bigger smiles as he would say "did you see us dicing and passing eachother!" i prefer him to pull the holeshots but his confidence was doubled by actually working his way through people.this year may be differant so i would like some extra to help on the line as these kids are pretty fast.
Hey scott did i see somthing about a stop in gear motor? he cannot pull start this motor and if he stalls hes gona have greif!
any hp gains this year?

[Steven623]

Scott Cain,
Wonder why you would want an additional class, when your Hondas were 2 seconds faster than the best at the nationals?

Phil McDowell

[alig]

You guys are all off. i've come up with one of the best clutch system to date. it's a closed-loop system, is an extremely popular vehicle drive system mainly because it has a number of unique features which are not found in most conventional manual and power-shift transmission drive systems.The most desirable feature is that neutral, forward, reverse, ground-speed, and braking, are all controlled via a single, hand-lever,thumb throttle or foot-pedal.While neutral, forward, reverse, and, ground-speed are inherent design features, the braking feature IS NOT.
The “brake system” is simply a by-product of the dynamics which naturally occur when the pump swashplate is moved from the forward or reverse position, to the neutral position.
if you are interisted in converting your auto/manual transmission to a state of the art Hydrostatic system just send me a check for $9.99 plus $2999.01 shipping and handling.

P.S. I like apple pie

[Ryko racing]

I WILL TAKE 4 OF THEM.

PLEASE BILL MY CARD 44455588669887 EXP 10/2099.

FEEL FREE TO ADD 10 PERCENT FOR YOUR TROUBLE.

[bmxican345]

I will take 2

[bowtiedmax]

I WILL ALSO TAKE 4 !! GO AHEAD AND JUST CHARGE MINE TO "RYKO'S RACING" CREDIT CARD. IM SURE THEY WONT MIND!!

:) :) :) :D

[COLTBNME]

Seems as though the only ones laughing are Cobra parents.
With the money we are all spending to provide national level ATVs for our children, maybe it is time to seriously consider the proposed classes for the youth. What is the big deal about having a 4 stroke 90 class and a 2 stroke 90 class? In reality the whole auto/manual clutch issue is not the problem. It is 2 stroke vs four stroke . Just my opinion.

Proud Mom of Colton Kellum#484
Hetrick 2007 TRX125

[bmxican345]

Ha Brandon you made cain disappear good job.

[CAIN730]

Seriously guys, some of us have to work. If you actually talk to someone that owns one of our motors then you will know that they are priced at or below the competetion as long as your comparing apples to apples.

I'm just here to go to bat for all the hondas out there and you four are doing the same for your cobras. We are always going to be on opposite sides of the fence. If I had built your motor I would be fighting for your rules too, thats my job.

On Colby being 2 seconds faster than the field. I am in a position where I know exactly who has what under the hood and I get to see how it applies on the track. I can tell you for sure that His motor dynoed + or - .5 hp with at least a dozen of our other motors out there and there was certainly more than 2 seconds difference per lap from first to last of those engines. So you guys just keep thinking that your inferior cobra equipment is the reason your not beating him.

[3-D Racing]

Hi Scott, man you jumped into a cobra nest here didnt you bud!!

First of all I am a Honda owner and yes my engine is built by Scott Cain. And man it is FAST!!!

If it will ease tentions mabey we should go to a 90-125cc 4-stroke class.

Question is why do the rules need to be changed in respect to the idle in gear thing now. The majority of the quads in the top 35 of the two classes Prod auto Jr. and Sr. were Hondas. I dont hear any other Honda owners complaining about the direct drive.

The direct drive allows us to rev a little faster that's it, we still have to hold the shifter in the up position to launch on the gate regardless of having to idle in gear or not, we cant feather a clutch in the corners.

Just my two cents but I'm also trying to stand up for my enginge builder and friend.

[Ryko racing]

First off I am not attacking Scott Cain. I have never met him. And I dont care what he charges if it works it is pretty much worth any price in my book.

1. I know that he builds good stuff. HIS RECORD SPEAKS FOR ITSELF AS DOES OUR ENGINE BUILDER.
2. I also know that last years the quads were pretty equal. I did not get into the protest nor do I care what clutch they or we run.
The foot clutch in question only helped off the line it also could not be slipped while riding ( same concept)
3.The only issue that I have is that to keep adding classes will make the entries on a per class basis go down ( bad). Lets give it a try as the production class will be a stepping stone class as it was meant to be.
4. As far as Colby, that kid can ride and it doesnt matter what he rides he is fast.


Lets cut out all this bull---- and go race. It is ashame that all of us travel and camp together and have to argue about something this stupid. ( THE KIDS DONT CARETHEY ARE ALL BUDDIES). We want to race with the Hondas, Extremes,Drr, Kymco's, Etc. then it is a true National Championship.

[jandjracing]

Lets just keep adding more classes. Maybe then they will drop our racing down to a one moto format, especially when its a little wet out. That would be great to drive 16+ hours for.

[COLTBNME]

What is the point in adding a new class of 90 production kids?
Do you honestly think there will be a full gate for the 90Jr or Sr production auto this year? The only thing this new proposed class is going to do is make everyone one 8-15 years old on a Shifter Cobra or TRX125 run together in one class instead of running in the 90 Jr or Sr class. How ridiculous!! You guys said it " We dont need a new class. Lets leave well enough alone and quit complaining.

Prod Mom of Colton Kellum#484
2007 Hetrick TRX125

[jandjracing]

I forgot to mention, I have a Cobra.

[mxkids]

The smartest thing the ATVA could have done is SEPERATE the 90 mod class. They should have made a 90 mod jr and a 90 mod sr. This class is TOOOOO dangerous to have a age difference of 8-15 running in it. It is not the same as it has been in years past. These kids are fast as well as their machines.

So if you want to write to the atva and suggest anything maybe you should stop and think about the saftey of the KIDS.

The cobras and hondas have been running togeather since 2005. Why can't they keep running. So what is the big deal? It is not costing the ones who already have it anymore money, right? Most cobra owners already have a manual clutch BECAUSE we had to buy a Auto clutch to run by the rules as they were in the past.

Every year since 2005 people have been trying to get the cobras out of the class. Why? It is your choice just like it is our choice as to what our kids want to ride. All they want to do is line up on the line and race, they don't care what or who they are running against. Let the kids race and have fun.

Sonia

Yes, we do have Cobras and are a Cobra dealer. But our goal is for the kids no matter what they are own. Saftey is the biggest and first thing that I will support. It is my/your kids out there racing on the track not me or you.

[lilman]

so really what is the deal?? hypothetically speaking is one that much faster than the other with comparable riders? and i do agree 8-15yr olds should be seperated that seems to be the only real discrepency ive read so far that i agree with,that is a safety issue! if there is a dominating rider, well--- let him have his spotlight !probably well deserved. the more classes the less you race against and that sucks.from what i have read and not by my experiance tha cobras and trxs are pretty close so really i think you all maybe only hurting yourselves at this point,lets hope it dosent have a trickle down affect on your children. i can see it now after the race "yah well the only reason you won is your cheating with your cobra or honda" someone has to win someone has to lose that is life! my son has a sticker on his quad that says"I WANT TO BE AS FAST AS MY DAD THINKS HE WAS" he wanted it too! our kids arent def they hear whats goin on. my kid is faster than me and he knows it.i would fly down to your area to watch you all have a parent series on the kids quads .our kids are all tougher than we think . as parents we seem concerned about 2-4 hp diff ,we arent going to start to have the kids to weigh in before the races to place them in weight classes are we ? no. 5-12lbs when your dealing with our hp range is quite substantial as well i know you all build good quads ,let the kids race em!
ps if it was racing season we would all be to busy fixin em to be *****in

[maddogmike119]

Sonia:

That makes the most sense on this forum! Preach on sister I got your back!

I submitted numerous documents to the ATVA inregards to splitting the 90 mod classes. I guess I did not submit enough.

[COLTBNME]

I agree with the 90 mod class age split, just as I agree on keeping the 90 production class split by age. Clutch or auto should not be the issue. Lets get a vote on adding a new class for the 90 mods instead of 90 production. And a vote on keeping the 90 production split the way it is and getting rid of the whole auto rule in the production class.

Tell me what you all think!
Proud Mom of Colton Kellum #484
2007 Hetrick TRX125

[bowtiedmax]

I really thought with the new super mini class they would of split the mod class. To me this is a no brainer. 8-15yr olds racing on the fastest of all the youth classes is just insane. They have a 90jr & 90sr class so why not.
We have been on the little end of the scale (9rd old) racing the mods and Jesse (and family) were scared to death with some of the older faster kids on the track. He wanted nothing to do with getting to the first corner from the holeshot anywhere near the whole pack with the bigger kids. But now Jesse turned 13 in July and we will move up the the super mini just because I think its the right thing to do.
I still think the hondas need to idle in gear on the line. As the Colbras need not have a clutch cable attached at both ends in the production classes.
Yes if I remember correctly the WPSA 90-125 4-stock class would fix the issues debated here, but I think after following this thread that most just dont want to add more classes??
So I agree with COLTBNME that if having a choice (witch we dont with ATVA) I would rather see a new Mod class for saftey reasons!!

[mxkids]

The only way that we can even hope this will happen is to flood them with emails. The info@atvmotocross link does not work. So I emailed Sam and also faxed a copy of what I would like to see on the 90 mod class and the 90 prod sr and jr class.

Here is Sams email if any one needs it:

sam@victory-sports.com

also fax#(304) 284-0081

Sonia

[THARNESS]

Thanks Sonia, I just sent Sam an e-mail about the mod class.
Merry Christmas
The Harness Family

[DoubleDad]

Originally posted by COLTBNME
What is the point in adding a new class of 90 production kids?
Do you honestly think there will be a full gate for the 90Jr or Sr production auto this year? The only thing this new proposed class is going to do is make everyone one 8-15 years old on a Shifter Cobra or TRX125 run together in one class instead of running in the 90 Jr or Sr class. How ridiculous!! You guys said it " We dont need a new class. Lets leave well enough alone and quit complaining.

Prod Mom of Colton Kellum#484
2007 Hetrick TRX125

Why is it ridiculous? What is ridiculous is my two sons had to race their stock shifter cobras in the mod class where they were out horsepowered every race and the Hondas with their modified clutch ran in the production class. The creation of the new class puts the quads in the class they were designed for. IMO

[COLTBNME]

Hey DoubleDad,

If you continue to read the posts, you would see that I said the whole auto vs clutch needs to be eliminated for the jr and sr 90 production classes. If a new class is added IMO it needs to be a breakdown of the 90 mod class into jr and sr riders. This was our first year running Nationals. My son is 11 on a TRX125 and our family was not aware there was any conflicts between the Honda
and Cobra parents over what bike is classified as a true auto production.

Thanks,
Donna Kellum

[jandjracing]

When I e-mailed Sam, I did not ask for an additional class to get added. I asked for the age in the 90 mod class to be capped at 12. After that, you are likely ready for the Supermini class. The Supermini class needs more riders. I really don't think there is that big of a difference in machines. You could compete just fine in the Supermini class with an 85 or 90. Sending kids out of the 90 Mod class sooner will bring new kids into the 90 Mod class sooner. And, you can run any kind of clutch you want in the 90 Modified class. There is not really a reason to add classes when we can shift some riders around right now and make room for some new riders watching from the fences. Just my $.02.

Kevin French

[Ryko racing]

Kevin, I never thought to ask Sam about that but that is a great idea too. It would give kids a step to the mods without getting them hurt while they are mastering the hand clutch. ( Ryan never did race 70 mod as he just learned to shift last spring and had to get his feet wet in the 90 mods).


If the classes were structured correctly I think this will work as we have qualifiers every race in the 90 mods 8-15.

[mxkids]

Kevin,

I agree. Bubba ran his 90cc in the supermini class this last season and did very well in it.

Sonia

[DoubleDad]

Originally posted by COLTBNME
Hey DoubleDad,

If you continue to read the posts, you would see that I said the whole auto vs clutch needs to be eliminated for the jr and sr 90 production classes. If a new class is added IMO it needs to be a breakdown of the 90 mod class into jr and sr riders. This was our first year running Nationals. My son is 11 on a TRX125 and our family was not aware there was any conflicts between the Honda
and Cobra parents over what bike is classified as a true auto production.

Thanks,
Donna Kellum

Hey Donna
I understand what you are saying and I am not wanting to get into the Cobra vs Honda either. I guess my point is my Stock Production Cobra had to run in the mod class which I dont' really understand. The new proposed class now gives them a more equal class to run in. Good luck to you whatever happens.

[ROBBSRACING]

Its funny how some things never change.

[qcitytile]

what about the cvt running 8-15 yrs. I don't hear anyone on this forum griping about that class. Every one is out for them selves. Change or no change I say just race have fun watching the kids and don't make it so personal.

[Ryko racing]

Wedid not start this debate all we did was post the rules and ask who was running what ???

Lets race....

[LT80]

Funny chit right here.

The problems::
1) the ama congress is "supposed" to do the rule changes. Input to the cogressmen/women before the big meeting is what used to happen. Look at the problems that come up cuz you have a chance to voice a late opinion.
2)Sam...If it don't line his pockets, he don't care. Send what ya want.
3) Deep pockets win. It's been like that but it's worse with the Honda's IMO. I mean, wtf is next?
I say go back to limited rules and let Joe plumbers kid have a chance.
4) All I read was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa and some replies.:devil:

Common TRX builders, tell exactly how many thousands of dollars it takes to make a dependable mini into a fast grenade.

Ok, you can rag on me now. :P

Santa sent me a text massage that I'll pass on...HOx3..
Happy Holidays

[Ride1Rob]

Originally posted by qcitytile
what about the cvt running 8-15 yrs. I don't hear anyone on this forum griping about that class. Every one is out for them selves. Change or no change I say just race have fun watching the kids and don't make it so personal.

How could a REAL parent not take the safety of his/her child personal? An 8yr old racing with 15yr olds is surely not safe. I don't know how they've gotten away with that structure this long. Guess it'll take someone's child getting killed by someone almost legal to drive for them to make it right. That's the main reason why my son doesn't race our state series here in Florida. Instead he races a local series where the 4-8 quads all race together with kids their age :D .

[guy310]

Actually Rob, the way the rules read, if a kids birthday fell right he could be driving to the track and still racing with your 8-year old.

[ROBBSRACING]

I say why change it ? The competition between them has been really good and the results came down to the riders ability. Why does it need to change ?


Does the Honda or the Cobra truely fit the proposed rules for either the Jr. or Sr. class ?

The definition of an automatic transmission is:

An automatic transmission (commonly "AT" or "Auto") is a gearbox that can change gear ratios automatically as the vehicle moves, freeing the driver from having to shift gears manually.

According to this definition of an automatic neither one fits the proposed rules.

[Ryko racing]

They are really not changing anything except making the auto classes true automatics and then adding an extra class for the kids to race.
As far as the age groups there are many classes for the younger riders to learn in. (70 CVT OR SS.)
Also, there are not many 15 yr olds racing racing the cvt class as there size ususally puts them at a disadvantage.


The CVT class still exists.
The auto clutch sr and jr classes still exist. ( auto clutch or cvt,must idle in gear if equipped with a shift lever)
The new class is production. ( any type of drive clutch is allowed.) ( CVT, MAN CLUTCH, OR AUTO CLUTCH, AND DIRECT DRIVE)


Lets just give it a chance.