09 factory team?

[OutlawBill]

If Lawson is racing for Motoworks is there still a factory EPIC team?

[Mr. Big Time]

Yes Lawson is on team motoworks, and yes Epic will still have a team, but this year they will only have one rider.

Lawson and Brandon Smith will be doing the Nationals and not the worcs for the Motoworks Team.

[miles Machine]

who else did epic get rid of?? gee or baker

[younggun95]

Gee left. But Epic wont be at the nationals. Atleast not all of them.

[miles Machine]

what is gee riding this year?

[younggun95]

I think he is going to ride a Honda but I dont know for sure so dont quote me.

[TNT]

Actually Ryan at Epic told me Baker and Hunter Miller will be on his team. (2)

Motorworks started as a pipe company right? DASA did Lawsons 08 motor? Who is Lawsons mechanic for 09?

[Mr. Big Time]

Motoworks is the team, and Ty is the main mechanic, that is Dillins dad.

[younggun95]

Ty wont really be the main mechanic for next year. They signed a couple of Suzuki's mechanics for next season.

[TNT]

Does DASA have the most experience with the motor? I talked to Johnny there, he was Lawson's mechanic last year. It's mainly the flowing, porting and boring the throttle body I want the best.

[atvlover]

Hello everyone. I wanted to clear all of this up. I (Johnny) am the team owner. Ty is the Team manger as well as Josh Fredericks mechanic. Theo is Lawsons mechanic and Casey is Brandons mechanic. We will be racing the WORCS series this year with Josh in the Pro class and Dillon Zimmerman in the Pro Am. Jeremy and Brandon will be racing the ATVA/ AMA nationals. We hope to have a lot of fun this year. Have a great Holiday.

[atvlover]

As far as motors go we have a fantastic motor that I know puts out more horsepower than the Dasa motor. Protec is the engine builder. It is an incredible motor. If you were at the ITP Quadcross this weekend you would have seen our bike pull a 4 bike length holeshot over Doug Eichner's 525 in the Open Pro class. This thing is a rocket and reliable.

[ltr311]

So your motors are putting out more than dasa? I heard 62whp on mr9 from dasa motor, and 58whp on 110. Thats not bad, but shy of the 65-68hp setups they are producing outa hondas and zukes.
What can you tell me about Gee's bike? Is it a nice motor setup?

[TNT]

Originally posted by atvlover
Hello everyone. I wanted to clear all of this up. I (Johnny) am the team owner. Ty is the Team manger as well as Josh Fredericks mechanic. Theo is Lawsons mechanic and Casey is Brandons mechanic. We will be racing the WORCS series this year with Josh in the Pro class and Dillon Zimmerman in the Pro Am. Jeremy and Brandon will be racing the ATVA/ AMA nationals. We hope to have a lot of fun this year. Have a great Holiday.

Johnny, whens a good to time to reach and at what number? I want to talk to you about doing my motor. Terry

[younggun95]

I know Johnny will answer you, but he just said that Protec did their motors.

[TNT]

Originally posted by younggun95
I know Johnny will answer you, but he just said that Protec did their motors.

Who these guy's I fond on google? http://www.pro-tecperformance.com/

Did they do 08 motors? Anyone else know if they build a good race motor?

Sorry new to Can am...

Thx!

[jacobw]

Originally posted by ltr311
So your motors are putting out more than dasa? I heard 62whp on mr9 from dasa motor, and 58whp on 110. Thats not bad, but shy of the 65-68hp setups they are producing outa hondas and zukes.
What can you tell me about Gee's bike? Is it a nice motor setup?

65-68 at the crank maybe not at the rear wheels for a 450 it would not last one moto and it would be blowing chunks. most pros bike are at the 55rwhp range over 60 and its not reliable at all and prob not a 450 either. And suzukis pos tranmisson cant handle the stock motor much less 60hp

[ltr311]

Ive heard the front runner hondas like Byrd have around 65whp. i dont doubt it. I run a dyno and ive had numerous 450s on it that produce 60whp

for instance
08 ltr
cp 13.75 piston
venom port
web stg2 cams
yosh shelf pipe
fuel intake
pim
Tuned by me it made 60whp 36ftlbs.
With just yosh, fuel intake and pim it made 50whp. So 10whp gain with all shelf parts. Tell me that national racers dont have motors with more hp than that. One off heads, one off exhaust systems, custom everything. This was still on stock valves too.

Another bike I did was a 07 honda
13.5 cp piston
43mm carb
local head port
06 hrc cam
ron woods pipe
fci intake
this bike did 59whp 35ftlbs. with all shelf parts. Stock valves and mild porting.

Another was a 07 yami
had 13.1 cp piston
+1 valves
web 2 cams
local head porting
fci intake
dasa pipe
43mm carb
cdi box of some sort
61whp 36fltbs. All shelf parts This bike rips. though nothing special here. All parts bought over phone.

Those factory national motors are doing big numbers with massive power curves. Dasa motors are putting out big numbers and if pro-tec is doing more the motors gotta be in the mid 60s.

55whp setups will get straight owned in the pro class. I can get that outa an ltr with just some bolt ons, piston and cam.

[jacobw]

Originally posted by ltr311
Ive heard the front runner hondas like Byrd have around 65whp. i dont doubt it. I run a dyno and ive had numerous 450s on it that produce 60whp

for instance
08 ltr
cp 13.75 piston
venom port
web stg2 cams
yosh shelf pipe
fuel intake
pim
Tuned by me it made 60whp 36ftlbs.
With just yosh, fuel intake and pim it made 50whp. So 10whp gain with all shelf parts. Tell me that national racers dont have motors with more hp than that. One off heads, one off exhaust systems, custom everything. This was still on stock valves too.

Another bike I did was a 07 honda
13.5 cp piston
43mm carb
local head port
06 hrc cam
ron woods pipe
fci intake
this bike did 59whp 35ftlbs. with all shelf parts. Stock valves and mild porting.

Another was a 07 yami
had 13.1 cp piston
+1 valves
web 2 cams
local head porting
fci intake
dasa pipe
43mm carb
cdi box of some sort
61whp 36fltbs. All shelf parts This bike rips. though nothing special here. All parts bought over phone.

Those factory national motors are doing big numbers with massive power curves. Dasa motors are putting out big numbers and if pro-tec is doing more the motors gotta be in the mid 60s.

55whp setups will get straight owned in the pro class. I can get that outa an ltr with just some bolt ons, piston and cam.


Yeah joe byrd also said that they built him a motor that was around 65 rwhp and it would not stay together, his race bike had around 60rwhp, technology has increased so much its all in the port job higher comp dont yield more hp, 60rwhp is pretty close to what the pros run and to tell you the truth the pros can run a stock motor and win they just know how to get the most outta the motor its not the most hp its the most usable hp and knowing how to ride the bike you could get away with 50rwhp in the pro class if you can ride the bike to its full potential

You are smoking crack if you think you can get 55 rear wheel hp on a ltr with a cam and piston and pipe without porting. all that might gain you 5-8 hp at the wheels pipe maybe 5 and piston 1-2 and cam 1-2 hp its all in the port job you can gain 7-9 hp there you could get the 55rwhp but it will have to be ported, I work with the guy that ports head for a living and we are both motor heads and talk about this all the time. These claimed numbers from pros bikes are also never dynod and proven either, its all a guess and when you bolt on a pipe and it says 7hp and then you put a cam in and it say claimes 3-4 hp and piston 2-3 you can add it up all you want it never on a dyno comes out to what they claim.

[ltr311]

Im not gonna argue with you but your way wrong about the ltr not hitting 55whp without porting. Cant be done with 06-07 ltr but Ive done it twice on 08 ltrs. I operate a dyno jet dyno and tune quads weekly. Ive seen what works and what doesnt.
Prime example My 08 ltr with
Dasa pipe
Fuel atv intake with 6inch kawi filter
Dasa 14.5 piston
atp intake cam
stock 07 exhaust cam
and a yoshimura pim tuned on sunoco 110
Its layed over dasa pipe, fuel intake 5inch filter and pim tuned.

Read it bro. No tricks here just a killer tune. I do this **** all day. Ive built many ltrs now and I know what works.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c44/Nismo311/DSC01654.jpg

Here is a ds450 with ron woods pipe, dasa style intake and pc tuned on the same dyno. This dyno doesnt read high. this bike did around 40whp stock.
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c44/Nismo311/DSC01625.jpg

[ltr311]

heres another 08 ltr I assembled and tuned

First line shows
rossier pipe, fuel intake, hotcam, pim tuned vs. added mild port and je 13.5 piston. The hotcam is a milder cam than the atp cam but still adds 1whp and alot of overrev. The port added 2whp also
With an atp intake cam this bike would do 56whp no problem. The rossier exhaust is holding it back of a little hp. Remember all the national guys have to run quiet exhaust systems that hold back power some. Not trying to start an arguement with ya but power can be made with the right parts.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c44/Nismo311/DSC01695.jpg

[jacobw]

i agree they all make power but its all in the porting mild to wild thats where it made and 55-60 hp is the threash hold for reliability, and not smoking off a tranny or engine cases.

[LTRracer4]

you can talk all you want. LTR311 has proof! haha

[ltr311]

My 06 ltr made 60-61whp for about 18months. with no issues.

My 08 ltr made 55.4whp and smoked 3rd gear after 3 races. I know how it goes. LOL

Hopefully my new can am doesnt have the same issues. It supposably made 62whp also. Ill be posting dyno graphs when I get it. I think Im gonna tune it on sunoco 112 vs. mr1 or whatever they used.

Ill keep you guys posted. Its a national dasa full motor build.

[TNT]

Originally posted by ltr311
My 06 ltr made 60-61whp for about 18months. with no issues.

My 08 ltr made 55.4whp and smoked 3rd gear after 3 races. I know how it goes. LOL

Hopefully my new can am doesnt have the same issues. It supposably made 62whp also. Ill be posting dyno graphs when I get it. I think Im gonna tune it on sunoco 112 vs. mr1 or whatever they used.

Ill keep you guys posted. Its a national dasa full motor build.

Whats the best can am set up to pull 58-60hp?...thats all I want.

[Mr. Big Time]

call some of the companies like Dasa or protec and ask them questions.

[Quadforce]

Rage has allot of time in the Can-AM motors.. they make very nice HP on all the builds that I have seen.

[atvlover]

You can call me at the office anytime to discuss the motors. Our number is 951-587-9222. The Protec motor is very fast and very reliable.

[WesDS450X]

Originally posted by atvlover
You can call me at the office anytime to discuss the motors. Our number is 951-587-9222. The Protec motor is very fast and very reliable.

sounds kinda gay lol

[ltr311]

I talked to Johnny at dasa and he said they can get about 56-58whp for around $2500.
The bike Im buying supposably makes around 62whp on oxygenated gas. So around 58-59 on c12. Ill be dynoing that bike when it get it.

Im also gonna be dynoing another ds this week. Mods are ron woods pipe, dasa style intake, cp 13.6 piston and dasa mid cams. Ill post those graphs mid week.

[TNT]

Originally posted by ltr311
I talked to Johnny at dasa and he said they can get about 56-58whp for around $2500.
The bike Im buying supposably makes around 62whp on oxygenated gas. So around 58-59 on c12. Ill be dynoing that bike when it get it.

Im also gonna be dynoing another ds this week. Mods are ron woods pipe, dasa style intake, cp 13.6 piston and dasa mid cams. Ill post those graphs mid week.

So lets see if I''m keeping this all straight you already got about 8HP or 48 from a Ron Woods, DASA intake, stock motor(40), 98 octane gas....now on the same quad you are going to add CP 13.6:1, DASA uses WEB CAMS Johnny there said, and you will run 112 octane fuel C12 means 112 right? That will tell us what adding the CAMS, a HC piston and Race gas do. What about 5HP I'm thinking? You might get 53-55HP?

Yeah Rage does good work Johnny said he sends work to DASA and they work together.

Johnny from Motorworks/Protec, call ya next week.

Thanks guy's!

Terry

[ltr311]

I didnt understand a thing you just said. LOL

1.Dasa said $2500 for around 58whp out of a ds450 Thats just what they said.

2.Im hopefully buying a ds450 this week that dasa built and said makes 62whp on oxygenated gas. If i get it I will retune on 112.

3. Im gonna be dynoing anther ds with weak with ron woods pipe, dasa style intake, pc, 13.6 piston and dasa mid cams. Original dyno was 48whp with intake and exhaust tuned. Im thinking 51-52whp. We will see.

I hope thats clear enough for you guys. Ill post results after its done.

[dbkbushwacker]

Originally posted by ltr311
I didnt understand a thing you just said. LOL

1.Dasa said $2500 for around 58whp out of a ds450 Thats just what they said.

2.Im hopefully buying a ds450 this week that dasa built and said makes 62whp on oxygenated gas. If i get it I will retune on 112.

3. Im gonna be dynoing anther ds with weak with ron woods pipe, dasa style intake, pc, 13.6 piston and dasa mid cams. Original dyno was 48whp with intake and exhaust tuned. Im thinking 51-52whp. We will see.

I hope thats clear enough for you guys. Ill post results after its done.

Can you take some pics of the bike?

[ltr311]

I can do that no problem. Ill take some of intake and exhaust setup also.

[TNT]

Originally posted by ltr311
I didnt understand a thing you just said. LOL

.Im hopefully buying a ds450 this week that dasa built and said makes 62whp on oxygenated gas. If i get it I will retune on 112.

What is 112? or "C12"? Gas? What do you mean "retune"? Did you ever find out why DASA wants to go to a bigger TB?

[LTRracer4]

c12 is VP racing 112. its a very high end un oxygenated gas. The bikes that run on Oxygenated gas our tuned differently because you use alot more oxy gas then regular gas.

[TNT]

Originally posted by jacobw
to tell you the truth the pros can run a stock motor and win they just know how to get the most outta the motor its not the most hp its the most usable hp and knowing how to ride the bike you could get away with 50rwhp in the pro class if you can ride the bike to its full potential

These claimed numbers from pros bikes are also never dynod and proven either, its all a guess and when you bolt on a pipe and it says 7hp and then you put a cam in and it say claimes 3-4 hp and piston 2-3 you can add it up all you want it never on a dyno comes out to what they claim.

You make a good point about usable torque for am's, too much can wear you out too and you better be in darn good shape. As far as a pro winning the GNC's on a stock or 50 HP quad I doubt it. I'd assume all the top 5 pro's at least can use every bit of thier 60+ hp/torque and the only thing they are waiting for is for someone to make a mistake, thier quad break, take the wrong line......Most of the top pro's admit the riding ability at the top is about the same....Wimmer would have been smoked last season on a stock motor. Could you imagine if that were true and the publicity and money he'd get...."Wimmer smokes everyone on a stock motor"....They sell that stock quad like hot cakes and factory's would pay Wimmer alot!!! He'd do it if he could.

You can bet the pro mechanics know exactly what the got in power and torque too......


My .02.....

[ltr311]

Originally posted by LTRracer4
c12 is VP racing 112. its a very high end un oxygenated gas. The bikes that run on Oxygenated gas our tuned differently because you use alot more oxy gas then regular gas.

Exactly! thank you. You need to change the map when you switch from oxygentated fuel to non. Otherise it will run pig rich.

And one other thing for jacob. The bikes that the pros run are dyno proven and tuned. There is just no reason for them to post there numbers. They have nothing to prove to me or you. The motors do make that kind of power and I know becuase I run a dyno. I can post 10 different dyno graphs of 450 based bikes making over 58whp. The highest on my dyno being 64whp and guess what. It was an ltr. The highest honda has been 60. Yamaha 60, can am so far only 48, polaris 55, ktm 52 (stock). Ill post a few more can am graphs as I get them. Like I said the next one will be this week. None of the bikes above had anything custom in them. All shelf parts. The pros use one off porting and run oxygenated gas that boosts power even more. Hopefully I can get my hands on that pro can am this week. You know Ill be posting graphs. Im so excited to get that bike.

[FHKracingZ]

I own a factory suzuki race bike from wienen and he said there around 62-63hp...

I can tell you theres alot more to these motors than porting, piston, and cams.. Lots of lower end work, polishing, taking weight from the cases, lightening the rotating mass.

[maticus]

so anyways back to the race teams.... who is going to be riding a can-am at the nats? lawson/ smith..baker/miller...natalie/miller... is that right ?

[Mr. Big Time]

smith and lawson for team motoworks, and I dont know who else. Natalie I'm sure of.

[pascalfr]

Jeremy Warnia, french rider, joined motoworks team.
Previously Jeremy was on Suzuki ... and now joins Can Am Team

[LTRracer4]

racing in the states?

[pascalfr]

Yes in US.
ITP Series and WORCS series and also some famous French races like “LeTouquet” (THE mythic French beach race), “Les 12H de Pont De Vaux”

Information come from Fullgaz (.com) website

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff261/pascalfr/n1551726643_30093925_1031.jpg

[maticus]

i read that hunter miller and sage baker were going to only run the quadcross series.

[TNT]

Originally posted by maticus
i read that hunter miller and sage baker were going to only run the quadcross series.

Whats interesting about that is there was a time when those Miller boy's were inseperable, you wanted one you got the other. Now the x-yamahaha'rs are east(Cody) and west(Hunter) on Can Am'ers next season. At LL they were selling their rig, I guess for Cody to use a new one? I hear Hunter will fly to the races. I bet Cody makes the top 5 next season....that boy is determined!!! :D

[maticus]

yeah he showed some flashes this year. i love hearing who going where and what new teams are being made it gives me something to look forward to for next year.

[rageatvsupermom]

Originally posted by TNT1
So lets see if I''m keeping this all straight you already got about 8HP or 48 from a Ron Woods, DASA intake, stock motor(40), 98 octane gas....now on the same quad you are going to add CP 13.6:1, DASA uses WEB CAMS Johnny there said, and you will run 112 octane fuel C12 means 112 right? That will tell us what adding the CAMS, a HC piston and Race gas do. What about 5HP I'm thinking? You might get 53-55HP?

Yeah Rage does good work Johnny said he sends work to DASA and they work together.

Johnny from Motorworks/Protec, call ya next week.

Thanks guy's!

Terry

Guys I want to clarify something here.....Rage does all of his
own porting......Period.....we do buy parts from DASA at times..
and we do have some carbs bored by them....but by no means
are they doing the work for us and us putting our name on it.
Yes Dee and Dan are friends and do talk from time to time but
each engine builder does his own work. Rage builds for the Warnert Can Am team with John Natalie and Cody Miller.

I think you are putting too much in Dyno numbers....let the
race results speak for themselves. In reality most riders...including the pros do not need the power they have..
most of the time they are not being beat by motor they are being
beat by rider skill. Hope I did not offend anyone...just setting the
record straight.

Thanks Michele

[TNT]

Originally posted by rageatvsupermom
Guys I want to clarify something here.....Rage does all of his
own porting......Period.....we do buy parts from DASA at times..
and we do have some carbs bored by them....but by no means
are they doing the work for us and us putting our name on it.
Yes Dee and Dan are friends and do talk from time to time but
each engine builder does his own work. Rage builds for the Warnert Can Am team with John Natalie and Cody Miller.

I think you are putting too much in Dyno numbers....let the
race results speak for themselves. In reality most riders...including the pros do not need the power they have..
most of the time they are not being beat by motor they are being
beat by rider skill. Hope I did not offend anyone...just setting the
record straight.

Thanks Michele

Hey Michele, Trever sent you guy's a resume. We're new to Can-am and figureing this all out thanks for clarifying. Look it over and please mail us back at list of the motor mod's Dee wants to do and cost. Trever's 170lb and 6' 1 and struggles getting torque to the ground, holeshots, out of corners. We'll be running strong at TQRA and locally in Expert-A, Nats-A/16-24. Looking fwd to a reply. Need motor work in the Feb-March time frame. Thanks! Terry

Ironman and Cody rule…..Oh, chicks too!

:blah:

[race proven]

i see where team motoworks won the 6 hour ITP race lawson rode the whole 6 hrs. by him self and won by over 14 min.must be getting there bike dialed in and lawson in top shape.

[QuadJunkies]

Nice to see you on the boards Johnny(its Tina who does the worcs photos ;) )
Ill be hitting you up soon as we need to figure out how to quite down my girls pipe on her Suzuki for next season.
I wont see you for Round 1,but we will catch up at some point Im sure .
Are Josh, Brandon and Dillon ready??!! :D
There will be some cool shots in this months edition of ATV Insider btw.
Best of luck to the new season !
http://www.pbase.com/image/105633583/original.jpg

[TNT]

Who makes that radiator shroud and what is it's function, to get more air or keep the radiator clean or both or ?

[nvrpmx]

Hi tina this is ty from motoworks the guys are all ready and cant wait to get the year started.Lawson has been spending some time out here with us and has had a blast hitting some of the GP races.Him and brandon will stay until the first ama at Glen Helen then head east to stay. Motoworks has done a great job on getting the pipes quiet should not be a problem by round one.Johnny does post from time to time but its by his name.Thanks for everything and see you at the races.

[QuadJunkies]

Originally posted by nvrpmx
Hi tina this is ty from motoworks the guys are all ready and cant wait to get the year started.Lawson has been spending some time out here with us and has had a blast hitting some of the GP races.Him and brandon will stay until the first ama at Glen Helen then head east to stay. Motoworks has done a great job on getting the pipes quiet should not be a problem by round one.Johnny does post from time to time but its by his name.Thanks for everything and see you at the races.
Hey there! Happy Holidays! Hope your ride time has been better than ours as of lately.Its very cold and snowy here-Time to MOVE! lol Actually, I was just talking to Dillon about that .
I think Troy had menioned to me about there being an insert in time for the new race season. I dont think IVe never heard a quiet Suzuki yet .lol
Hers is actually not too bad , but would hate to drive up for nothing. Pipe sounds very nice though.Kelseys loving her new found power and now riding with the men and ladies.
Tell all the guys hello from us ,the kids are bummin there missing a few races this year .:ermm:
We will be thinking of ya'll.
Johnny, heres a couple shots of you I came across when I was thumbing threw my Havasu shots. They are too large to post .

http://www.pbase.com/quadjunkies/image/107329619

http://www.pbase.com/quadjunkies/image/107329620

[Mr. Big Time]

Originally posted by TNT1
Who makes that radiator shroud and what is it's function, to get more air or keep the radiator clean or both or ?

They are made by can-am, not sold to the public. They are for keeping mud out of the radiator, but they do block air.

[Mr. Big Time]

cool tina....I never knew that Johnny had been racing through out the year

[TNT]

Originally posted by Mr. Big Time
They are made by can-am, not sold to the public. They are for keeping mud out of the radiator, but they do block air.

Interesting, you know if they designed the vertical vanes to diverge back(fwd-rear(wider) and create a venturi effect that could minimize air blockage and maybe even gain some flow. You familiar with turbine engines? The rear of the engines turbine section has vanes that diverge, decrease pressure/increase velocity.......

What strikes me odd is why..... Does this quad have known cooling problems with high performance engines? Are they running a stock radiator?

[Mr. Big Time]

team motoworks is using stock radiators, but they did some customizing to it, and eliminated the bottle where you pour the fluid into. It goes directly into the radiator. The reason they over heat is because they put the radiator out front, therefore allowing more mud to get into it.

[nvrpmx]

tina nice pic im sure it was not hard getting it almost like a still shoot. :p

[atvlover]

It must have been a high speed camera...lol. Motoworks is running stock radiators. We modified the radiator for ease of fluid changes. The stock setup is touchy when it comes to air bubbles. You have to make sure that all of the air is out. We modified ours a bit to eliminate air bubbles in the heat of the moment. The race shroudes work very good in the mud.
Merry Christmas everyone.

Tina thanks for the pics. That guy looks fast.

[QuadJunkies]

Originally posted by atvlover
That guy looks fast.

FO SHO..:bandit:

[brpds650]

Originally posted by Mr. Big Time
They are made by can-am, not sold to the public. They are for keeping mud out of the radiator, but they do block air.
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff159/brpds650/can-ampart2.jpg
the part is available from the racing department ....

[Mr. Big Time]

Ok....I knew that there was a racing department, however, I could not find a number for it, and seeing as I was told that they did not sell it to the public, I was not sure if I could tell anybody. Where did you find this?

Just for the record they were, and maybe still are backorderd, and cost like $130

[TNT]

Thanks for the tip, where DID you find this and will it fit the 09's? Does the race team have a website or phone number?

[xsr_racing28c]

Just so you guys know, there might be an alternative to this kit.

More info to come soon.. :eek2:

Jay

[Blizzard24]

How soon for this alternative? Trying to get the bike ready for the race season.

[ds450racer]

Originally posted by xsr_racing28c
Just so you guys know, there might be an alternative to this kit.

More info to come soon.. :eek2:

Jay
well you need to get this alternatice out soon then. I wrecked another engine this weekend and im getting sick of it. If im gonn race these thing i need a louver kit

[Mr. Big Time]

Thats what I'm saying....You cant even order this one from can-am. They send those tip sheets out to the factory teams, therefore you have to be on the team to know the number to be able to order one from them

[xsr_racing28c]

hmm... so many things I want to share, but just cannot yet.

All i can say is.. watch for Warnert this year. They will have the most unique setup like this that you'll probably ever see.

cough..... k arbn' p hibr ..... cough

:devil:

[Master LTR450]

Originally posted by xsr_racing28c
hmm... so many things I want to share, but just cannot yet.

All i can say is.. watch for Warnert this year. They will have the most unique setup like this that you'll probably ever see.

cough..... k arbn' p hibr ..... cough

:devil:

HMMMMMMMMMM.....What are you talking about??? :blah: :macho

[Mr. Big Time]

Sounds like they are going to make a carbon fiber louver.

[ProspectorJim]

Originally posted by xsr_racing28c
hmm... so many things I want to share, but just cannot yet.

All i can say is.. watch for Warnert this year. They will have the most unique setup like this that you'll probably ever see.

cough..... k arbn' p hibr ..... cough

:devil:

will anyone else be able to have this k arbn' p hibr piece this year?

[xsr_racing28c]

Haha.. you guys are funny!!! :D

This will be available to the public, but not until march 1st.

They are available on pre-order only, and for more info you can contact me.


FourWerx is working alot with Warnert this year to bring about alot of new things to the DS to make it better. I've spent alot of time up there, and they are going to be the most badasprine quads out there!!!

hehe..

[ProspectorJim]

nice, just in time for my birthday.:D

[TNT]

I’d be surprised if they make it out of carbon fiber if they do it will be expensive….Carbon is not much different than fiberglass(woven cloth) but has a higher strength to weight ratio. A lay-up like that requires a machined tool to lay up the ply’s on then the man hours to do the lay-up itself is a lot plus you need access to an autoclave(oven). The up front cost can be justified by large expensive quantities. Carbon(or glass) lay-ups don’t take kindly to impact(rocks), which crack it.

Where is the Warnert website so I can keep an eye on what products they come up with?

[xsr_racing28c]

There are no pics anywhere my friend, other than my computer. :) I am the one who makes these, and owns FourWerx.

if you need info, contact me. :)

[ds450racer]

check pm's xsr:macho

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by TNT1
I’d be surprised if they make it out of carbon fiber if they do it will be expensive….Carbon is not much different than fiberglass(woven cloth) but has a higher strength to weight ratio. A lay-up like that requires a machined tool to lay up the ply’s on then the man hours to do the lay-up itself is a lot plus you need access to an autoclave(oven). The up front cost can be justified by large expensive quantities. Carbon(or glass) lay-ups don’t take kindly to impact(rocks), which crack it.

Where is the Warnert website so I can keep an eye on what products they come up with?

I think you need to familiarize yourself with Jay and his work...

www.fourwerx.com

Even his website looks like its made of carbon! haha

[ProspectorJim]

Originally posted by xsr_racing28c
There are no pics anywhere my friend, other than my computer. :) I am the one who makes these, and owns FourWerx.

if you need info, contact me. :)

so when will we be able to see these pics? or do we have to wait for march 1st?

[Master LTR450]

Originally posted by xsr_racing28c
There are no pics anywhere my friend, other than my computer. :) I am the one who makes these, and owns FourWerx.

if you need info, contact me. :)

Haha you sure about that pic statement?? Jay is the CF king fellas just give him time or give him a call!! I don't have a ds but I'm sure he will be able to take care of you guys like he says when he says. Actually I guarantee it!! His work is top notch and he is an awesome guy.

[xsr_racing28c]

Thanks guys.. :) :p

[TNT]

Our new 09 has a wire mesh screen and plastic lovers in front of the radiator...does the 08 have this? Isn't that enough?

[ds450racer]

No no where near...

[TNT]

Originally posted by ds450racer
No no where near...

Well thats interesting we race mid to top national A class on a YFZ 450 with 55HP HOT motor on 100 degree 80 % humidity days past three years with less of a grill no louvers to protect against mud with noooo probs? Why exactly do you say that?

[k4f5x0r]

can am put the radiator in front of the frame. and the other quads have it behind the frame. or something like that.. crazy canadians :p

[TNT]

Originally posted by k4f5x0r
can am put the radiator in front of the frame. and the other quads have it behind the frame. or something like that.. crazy canadians :p

Thats good and bad there are not as many obstructions on the DS to block air flow. I can see a concern if you are XC mud racer but not MX....we have had very little mud accumulate on the 09 from MX so far but more time will tell I will watch it, thx....

[ProspectorJim]

Originally posted by k4f5x0r
can am put the radiator in front of the frame. and the other quads have it behind the frame. or something like that.. crazy canadians :p

im geussing they did this for more airflow across the radiator but didnt test for very muddy track conditions.

[TNT]

Originally posted by ProspectorJim
im geussing they did this for more airflow across the radiator but didnt test for very muddy track conditions.

I don't know the wire mesh on the 09 is very fine(more than yam) with small holes I don't see much mud getting past it and they left a good gap between it and the radiator, so if the grill gets clogged air can still get in from the sides. The lovers should help get flow to the radiator and the hood design(bull nose) goes 1/4 way down the radiator which should help keep mud out and good flow.

The 09 grill and lovers screw right into the plastic don't know if it retrofits the 08's.

[ds450racer]

the 09 grill is exactly the same as the 08. You will still get sand though it and alot of mud. The mesh doesnt stop mud,

[TNT]

Originally posted by ds450racer
the 09 grill is exactly the same as the 08. You will still get sand though it and alot of mud. The mesh doesnt stop mud,

Like I said above our DS has more protection than our YAM and we never had a problem. Our YAM grill has bigger grill holes and sits right on the radiator. I'd suggest people watch their radiator and if it does'nt collect alot of mud or over heat your fine, don't waste your money on products you don't need. The race team are pro's that push their motors to the limit, if you are not a pro you have less to worry about.

[ds450racer]

Trust me if your racing in sand or muddy conditions you need it. I blast my rad out after every race yet the thing over heats and goes in to limp mode. I have tried putting nets over the front and everything yet it still doesnt work. Without the louver kit the rad blocks up very easily even if you do wash it out. And the pro's dont even have limp mode on there bike so i would think they would have less to worry about.

[TNT]

Originally posted by ds450racer
Trust me if your racing in sand or muddy conditions you need it. I blast my rad out after every race yet the thing over heats and goes in to limp mode. I have tried putting nets over the front and everything yet it still doesnt work. Without the louver kit the rad blocks up very easily even if you do wash it out. And the pro's dont even have limp mode on there bike so i would think they would have less to worry about.

Agreed if Id were racin in sand or mud often Id get the louvers.

[Mr. Big Time]

The yamahas do have shrouds, and just like all the other 450's besides the ds, the radiator sits much farther back.... I do not race the pro class, yet I over heated mine in taft, ca back in october because of the mud. When you put a radiator out front like that mud will get into it. I would recommend all riders to get the louvers kit. If your riding in the C class it might not be as big a deal, or if your riding towards the back of the pack, I might not worry about it as much.

[ds450racer]

I think even if your riding behind you should get one. If you get roosted with a load of mud then its obviously gonna get in the rad. I think if your out front winning then you may not have as big of an issue.

[TNT]

Can someone please explain to me how these lovers keep mud and sand out of the radiator? How do they stop mud and especially sand from going right between the open slots between the vertical canted vanes and how does it prevent the vanes from packing up with mud??

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk191/Terrylport/Louvers.jpg

Mr BT if you run a modded engine the stock radiator is probably not big enough thats why you overheated. Our YAM stock was replaced with a PWR when we went to a 55 hp motor that ran much hotter and we ran ICE coolant....the stock YAM would have overheated. Our modded YAM has no shrouds it was completed open to mud packing for the most part.

We are running a stock DS motor for a while when we mad it I anticipate needing a bigger radiator, not sure will talk to the motor mechanic and see what they think.

[ds450racer]

The stock grill is pretty much open apart from the bit of mesh and few fins. The louver kit has more of a falt surface if you look at it. The fit cover almost the whole of the rad and are pointed slightly inwards so you can still get air to it.

[TNT]

The 09 DS is far from open. Here is a pic I plan on drilling holes in the number plate and if I pack mud the best defense is a perforated (holes) surface which breaks it up and makes it drop. Most sand should pass through the radiator shrouds....maybe not if it were wet and packed up but there is no way to prevent that other than a grill.

The louvers are for nothing more than air flow…..the pro bikes are wider to capture a larger volume of air and divert it to the radiator. The frame geometry on the DS limits a wider radiator so the louvers were the best alternative for highly modded hot motors. A second auxiliary fan could also be added.


http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk191/Terrylport/DSFrontal.jpg

The metal grill is the best defense against mud, another one could be screwed into the front plastic fwd of the yellow louvers and on the bumper, just order the stock grill and modify it.

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk191/Terrylport/DSGrill.jpg

We ran two YAMS open to mud past 3-years with big motors and open radiators w/ PWR radiators 100 deg 80% humidity never had a problem…note the plastic grill on the radiator. CV4 hoses and ICE coolant. pic below…..

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk191/Terrylport/YAM.jpg

[ds450racer]

The louvers are to keep mud and sand out aswell. It even says that what it is for on the tip sheet. Why would you put something in front of the radiator to help it get more air?! You would keep it wide open for air flow. If anything the louver kit will restrict air flow to the rad.

[ds450racer]

Also yams dont have limp mode. So you cant really compare.

[TNT]

Originally posted by ds450racer
The louvers are to keep mud and sand out aswell. It even says that what it is for on the tip sheet. Why would you put something in front of the radiator to help it get more air?! You would keep it wide open for air flow. If anything the louver kit will restrict air flow to the rad.

I think you asked yourself a good question I can't answer cuz it makes no sense. "Why would you something in front of the radiator to help it get more air you would keep it wide open" Exactly!! you definitely don't want to obstruct airflow and I'd hope the Warnet team is smarter than that! LOL! You could design these vane to increase airflow, it happens in turbine engines, exhaust pipes, go read Bernoili's principles. Limp mode on the DS can be reprogrammed.

You buy your louvers I'll buy my wire mesh we'll accomplish the same thing. :D

[Mr. Big Time]

sorry it wont accomplish the same thing. It has been tested. My quad a has a stock engine. The louvers do prevent air flow, and do block way more mud than your wire mesh....sorry tnt, but you are wrong in this debate.

[TNT]

If they block air flow don't buy them until someone that knows what they are doing designs them right.....maybe I will. My mesh design has not been tested or compared I haven't even designed it yet. :rolleyes: LOL! I'll have some aerodynamic engineers look at this I got some friends in the know. I'm not an aero guy but know enough to tell a few basics. Mean time I'll be watching my radiator and running a few test of my own, I have to see all this mud accumulation myself....maybe you two are right we will see.....

All Can AM owners should realize if Can Am's are going to compete in the future we have to keep the # of and cost of after market parts down and race ready Can AM out of the box up!

Seeing is believing and so far I have not seen a problem with the radiator or the clutch after about an hour on the 09......got a long ways to go but we shall see.

anyhow thanks for letting me know of the past issues I do appreciate the heads up. If the issues arise I'll be looking for low cost solutions and passing them on.

[Mr. Big Time]

Ok bro...you do that. But you just got to trust us when we say that the louvers work well. I know I brag about team motoworks alot, but they really do put more effort and testing into these quads than anybody, and if they say these work good, then I'm gonna have to believe they work good. Especially after seeing Fredricks bring home a championship, Zimmerman 1pt away from a championship, and Smith taking 4th. So unless you make alot of money as a engineer for these bikes, I'm gonna take can-am's word on it. But if you can make something better, let me know so I can get it. :D

[WesDS450X]

I must say the yellow on black grill looks gay on the 09's, esp those gay can am shock covers lol. get some shockwares or somthin those look retarded. iv been runnin my ds latly at the dunes with no grill and im probly keep it that way.

[QuadJunkies]

Originally posted by Mr. Big Time
Ok bro...you do that. But you just got to trust us when we say that the louvers work well. I know I brag about team motoworks alot, but they really do put more effort and testing into these quads than anybody, and if they say these work good, then I'm gonna have to believe they work good. Especially after seeing Fredricks bring home a championship, Zimmerman 1pt away from a championship, and Smith taking 4th. So unless you make alot of money as a engineer for these bikes, I'm gonna take can-am's word on it. But if you can make something better, let me know so I can get it. :D


LMAO!
Damon, you crack me up:p
Everyone time I hear "Shakin Bacon" your the one that comes to mind.

I bet Johnny remembers hearing that a few times onthe bus. LOL!:o :p

[Mr. Big Time]

haha.....its shake 'n' bake, not skaken bacon.....but yeah I'm sure Johnny remembers hearing a few of them on the bus....that was a the most fun I had in a while on that bus ride.

How have you guys been Tina?

[QuadJunkies]

HAHAHA!!!! What was I thinking??!!! DUH! :o :blah:

Weve been Ok,just too cold to really do anything and the kids are bored.

[WesDS450X]

ohh **** tnt sell me ur stock 09 shocks+a-arms+rear axle

[ds450racer]

Originally posted by TNT1
I think you asked yourself a good question I can't answer cuz it makes no sense. "Why would you something in front of the radiator to help it get more air you would keep it wide open" Exactly!! you definitely don't want to obstruct airflow and I'd hope the Warnet team is smarter than that! LOL! You could design these vane to increase airflow, it happens in turbine engines, exhaust pipes, go read Bernoili's principles. Limp mode on the DS can be reprogrammed.

You buy your louvers I'll buy my wire mesh we'll accomplish the same thing. :D
The loyver kit isnyt to maximize air flow. Its to stop all the sh*t getting in to the rad.

[TNT]

If these louvers restricted airflow then you may have solved one problem (mud & sand) and created another, motors running too high a temp. Motors that run a too high a temp due to a lack of airflow and cooling can wear rings out faster, cyl and pistons, cranks and bearing's, and become unreliable, over heated metal(aluminum) expands big time. I didn't see in the tip sheet it saying they restrict air flow.....who said that? I think we got some bad info and there is something else going on here especially pros with big motors and small restricted radiators just does not make sense. The stock louvers don't restrict airflow they divert it to the radiator(like a scoop on a car) and reduce the amount of turbulence. Like I said if all I wanted to accomplish is keeping mud out another screen as big as these louver would work and be less restrictive. Only way to test airflow is with a gage behind the shrouds in a wind tunnel and I doubt Can Am takes these quads into wind tunnels and especially smaller shops.... You mock up a prototype and keep changing the angle of shrouds until you find something that worked at different elevations then produce production parts....lots of R&D to get it right. You could even do this on a computer if your were advanced and equipped with whats called CFD....very expensive! OR maybe rig a fan to a tach or something like that and go run some mud test might give a rough idea, but I doubt it was ever tested.

Engineers design and redesign it is not uncommon so keep that in mind. Right now I am helping to redesign the Boeing 747, happens all the time we discover things after the initial design even 50 years later......not saying that is the case here but just bear in mind that just because it has the Can Am, BRP, or whoever label on it does not make it technical right, take what I say with a grain of salt too since I don't have the louvers in front of me, a drawing, test results, time with the quad, so I lack info.

So BRP, Motoworks, and now Fourwerxs make these? I can see a injection molded latex or nylon plastic but that takes matched dies or welded or bolted aluminum so you can replace louvers, not a carbon fiber or glass lay-up too expensive and lacks damage tolerance! I don't understand why Can Am did not incorporate these louvers in the 09 design they are not that dumb! They have the best design capabilities for the lowest cost, and these louvers would not bring up retail that much, a couple hundred at best.

PS: Mr BT I can't afford my salary to be cut in half or I'd go work for Can Am, they can't afford me but I'd LOVE to design quads....And just think you guy's get it free....lol! You should go work for Motoworks...lol!

Wes stop saying Can AM is gay you own one remember....lol! I can sell you stock KYB front 09 shocks for 30% off retail or used Sport Elka's for 50% off. We're going with Fox all the way around and their covers keeping the stock arms(which are now CM steel upper).....PM me if interested. Also selling that YAM in the photo to buy a second DS practice quad.....$6,500 lots of mods fast motor

You guy's crack me up. :D

[ds450racer]

Your right you probably would be creating another problem wit the air flow. But i remember reading somewhere the factory teams take them off in dry and not sandy races.

[WesDS450X]

Originally posted by TNT1

Wes stop saying Can AM is gay you own one remember....lol! I can sell you stock KYB front 09 shocks for 30% off retail or used Sport Elka's for 50% off. We're going with Fox all the way around and their covers keeping the stock arms(which are now CM steel upper).....PM me if interested. Also selling that YAM in the photo to buy a second DS practice quad.....$6,500 lots of mods fast motor

You guy's crack me up. :D


not saying can am is gay just saying the yellow grill on the black bike looks gay! black on black ftw..ill hti yea up in a couple of weeks see if yea still got them shocks (either set) gotta save up some bucks or wait for taxes to come back, dont wana be an ******* and low ball yeah for em =P

[TNT]

One thing I don't got straight is BRP and Can AM the same Company?

I know Can Am does a full mock up on the computer CATIA( graphics) solid model of the quad....a solid model in CATIA is different than a wireframe model in Autocad, a solid is much better like holding a real "solid" part in your hand but in the computer it's one body, hard to explain trust me very advanced! Can AM also has FEM(Finite Element Modeling) which is a loads model so you can find forces acting on the quad at any square inch to design too....from there the fully computerized quad can go into CFD(computational fluid dynamics) model where they pass air over it to see how it flows.

All used in advanced aircraft design and is what I do as a Designer(CATIA) along with Aerodynamic(CFD) and Stress Engineers(FEM). Can Am I remember from their video has this capability, so if I were to trust any product to be designed right it would be from them.

YAM, Honda, and the rest of Japs I have never seen them advertise this capability so I don't know.

[WesDS450X]

can am has been around longer then brp but brp bought out can am from what iv heard and been told

[ProspectorJim]

can-am was an old dirtbike brand that brp bought out. Now they use it for their quads (probably because can-am sounds better than bombardier).

I think it would be interesting if Can-am made a dirtbike with the DS450 engine.

[WesDS450X]

Last i heard can am was designing a side by side with a vtwin or a motor with around 1000cc's

[WesDS450X]

Last i heard can am was designing a side by side with a vtwin or a motor with around 1000cc's

[grantmi]

Originally posted by TNT1
One thing I don't got straight is BRP and Can AM the same Company?

I know Can Am does a full mock up on the computer CATIA( graphics) solid model of the quad....a solid model in CATIA is different than a wireframe model in Autocad, a solid is much better like holding a real "solid" part in your hand but in the computer it's one body, hard to explain trust me very advanced! Can AM also has FEM(Finite Element Modeling) which is a loads model so you can find forces acting on the quad at any square inch to design too....from there the fully computerized quad can go into CFD(computational fluid dynamics) model where they pass air over it to see how it flows.

All used in advanced aircraft design and is what I do as a Designer(CATIA) along with Aerodynamic(CFD) and Stress Engineers(FEM). Can Am I remember from their video has this capability, so if I were to trust any product to be designed right it would be from them.

YAM, Honda, and the rest of Japs I have never seen them advertise this capability so I don't know.


FEA (Finite Element Analysis)(common term today) is a common tool today for any Mechanical Engineer......I highly doubt that the other manufactures are stuck in the 80's! Can-Am just chooses to advertise it.

By the way.......would you explain what a divergent nozzle is?? I'm wondering if you really know?

[TNT]

Originally posted by grantmi
FEA (Finite Element Analysis)(common term today) is a common tool today for any Mechanical Engineer......I highly doubt that the other manufactures are stuck in the 80's! Can-Am just chooses to advertise it.

By the way.......would you explain what a divergent nozzle is?? I'm wondering if you really know?

Yeah I bet your right about the Japs. Hey if you know more than I do about divergent nozzles please explain(I already did) my experience with divergent and convergent ducts in jet engines I studied 25 years ago in college and forgot all the intricate details.

The whole idea out here is not to challenge each other but rather to provide useful info. Feel free to correct if I am wrong I am not perfect. FEA it is then, we call it FEM here in aircraft. :cool:

[joeyds450x]

The whole idea out here is not to challenge each other but rather to provide useful info. Feel free to correct if I am wrong I am not perfect. FEA it is then, we call it FEM here in aircraft. :cool: [/B][/QUOTE]


then share info we all understand..i read the knovels you write and honestly have no idea wut your saying. :confused:

[TNT]

Sorry Joey….Some of this stuff gets complicated and there is no easy explaination, now some of you have a better understanding of all that goes into the design of a quad. Some will understand more than others depending on your background. I try and simplify it the best I can but until you understand the design there is no way you can understand how to redesign with after market parts.

Maybe Granti can give a simplified explaination of the divergent duct and where it is utilized on the Can am and/or the team louvers? Maybe that knowledge will help someone design better louvers and parts for us all.

[joeyds450x]

its ok im trying to learn and understand it...im not any good with things like that

[grantmi]

TNT…..a couple your quotes from the DS450hq website…

Intake
“You can guess or speculate but without using a pressure gage and some flow checks you don't know what air box mod's will work. Drilling holes in your box or removing it can cause a lack of pressure due to turbulence. The intake is a divergent duct that is designed to decrease velocity and increase pressure before it enters the throttle body, only so much pressure can fit in the chamber and the box has been carefully designed to do just that.”

“Next time you have a DS box look at the taper from rear(wider) to front, it's the divergent duck I am talking about”

- The definition of a divergent duct is just that, it diverges in the direction of flow. From what you have described above, and what the DS has is a converging duct. In subsonic flow a converging duct will increase the fluid (air) velocity.
- Yes, the correct method to determine the effectiveness of airbox modifications would be to test the flow and pressure drop utilizing a flow bench. But you can still determine the effectiveness by running well-controlled dyno comparisons, but I stress well controlled.

Radiator
- TNT, you are correct. The special vertical louvers should reduce flow. But my understanding is they were designed specifically for use in the mud. I am not sure where you ride, but I can see the open rad of the DS plugging up within minutes during a muddy race (assuming you do not get the holeshot). Factory team testing seems to have proved this.
- So yes the design is still compromised, as are all designs. You are giving up initial flow rate to extend the amount of time and increase quantity of mud build-up required for the radiator to plug.
-My younger brother just purchased a 09 XC, and I am very interested to see how the front radiator design functions in a muddy IA race.

As an ME I would like to stress that sound theory and adequate design are required for any component, but in the end it is the field testing and real world use that will determine the success or failure of any design. As you know, during design you are dealing with a set design parameters, once the equipment/part is operated outside of this window the original design is null. A bike modified for racing, is most likely outside of the original Can-Am design parameters.

TNT, I do not in anyway want to discourage you. Although I am not actively designing components (Project Engineer) I can spot B.S. (no harm). I just am a stickler at times for the information presented to be correct.

[TNT]

When you say B.S. are you referring to wording? So far your only legit corrections are that in your industry you use the term “FEA” vs “FEM” and I used the term “diverge” when I should have used the term “converge” (dang I knew I had that backwards lol)….I thought I did pretty good if that’s all you got having not been in college for 25 years lol! Further the DS450 stock louvers don’t converge at all nor does the BRP from what I can tell, although I was looking at a 650 yesterday that does….I really don’t think there is enough depth in the BRP design to make the velocity, but yes for sure those louvers could be designed to increase the flow and obstruct mud both. I know how they would be shaped and that shape is incorrect. I really don’t think Can Am stock louvers are meant to increase velocity due to the lack of depth, just divert flow towards the radiator; however Can Am has sized the radiator in accordance with the air to it and the engine cooling load, if you redesign outside of those parameters and obstruct flow then there will be consequences(engine wear, unreliable motor and radiator, etc.)

Other than that if many industries relied primarily on “field testing” as a means to design to there would be a lot of injured people in the quad and automotive industry, dead in the aircraft industry.... SAE or FAA won't allow it. The majority of the design is based on calculated and historical empirical knowledge and data, prototype testing, years of R&D, and very little is left up to “field testing” and tribal knowledge. In my world, “Aerospace” we don’t deal with “set parameters that later operate outside the design window”…if we did the aircraft would fall out of the sky and the Space Shuttle would never make into orbit……lol!

Sounds like you’re a sharp young man, I say that since I assume you are younger than 50 like me, but do show some respect for your seniors and industry professionals. I have been at this 25 years(Project Design) and I sit around 100’s more just like me at work so be careful what you call BS lol!……Can am gets more credit than using the "feild testing" and operating outside design parameters, lol! If you see a mistake on anyone’s part step up state some facts (it always easy to throw darts at someone else’s, that takes little intellect). If you want to continue this conversation or debate with me further PM me….I’m sure the majority of people out there don’t care to read it. I’m not discouraging you either do correct me or the industry if you THINK you see errors, everyone makes mistakes just like you….

Hopefully the next person that attempts to design these louvers will do some research on divergent and convergent ducts, well I hope Can am does in 2010…..I’ll be watching my radiator too in mx I have yet to see the problem.

PS: Poor Joey probably is going WTF ????? lol…If you want a better understanding PM me and I will try and explain. Or try grantmi he seems to have a handle on ducts, nozzles, venturi’s, Bernoulli’s principles…..good job and yes I found the same info by google search to help refresh my memories just got side ways on terms.

Sorry about the novel. :D

[grantmi]

LOL....since when did the converge / diverge debate center around the radiator louvers? The converge / diverge was around the intake.

[TNT]

The louver debate started page 4 after quad junkies posted a pic of them I asked the question below we have been discussing them ever since. Boy are you confused, lol! Thats what you get for quoting from HQ.....


Originally posted by TNT1
Who makes that radiator shroud and what is it's function, to get more air or keep the radiator clean or both or ?

PS: With regard to the intake and exhaust yes both convergent and divergent nozzles at play but these shrouds only convergent vanes is what I suggested on this thread and THIS debate is about.


:D

[TNT]

I got a 747 to redesign now so I got to get to it....Have fun dude! :rolleyes: :D

[ScottB125]

Originally posted by LTRracer4
c12 is VP racing 112. its a very high end un oxygenated gas. The bikes that run on Oxygenated gas our tuned differently because you use alot more oxy gas then regular gas.

Throw some Q16 and I bet it makes more power than then c12. We run it in our racecars....its some bad ****!

[joeyds450x]

PS: Poor Joey probably is going WTF ????? lol…If you want a better understanding PM me and I will try and explain. Or try grantmi he seems to have a handle on ducts, nozzles, venturi’s, Bernoulli’s principles…..good job and yes I found the same info by google search to help refresh my memories just got side ways on terms.

Sorry about the novel. :D [/B][/QUOTE]
LOL

[joeyds450x]

PS: Poor Joey probably is going WTF ????? lol…If you want a better understanding PM me and I will try and explain. Or try grantmi he seems to have a handle on ducts, nozzles, venturi’s, Bernoulli’s principles…..good job and yes I found the same info by google search to help refresh my memories just got side ways on terms.

Sorry about the novel. :D [/B][/QUOTE]
LOL