Will Honda answer?

[1socal450]

Suzuki started a great trend,EFI,+-50 inch width.KTM came with a chromoly chassis,high end components(yea I know,its a ton of money).Yamaha has taken it a step further with the all new YFZR,long travel,EFI,width,aluminum chassis,re-vamped motor,a very impressive package for not much more money than a 450r.I was at the annual motorcycle show in Long Beach Ca.,If you line up all four 450s side by side,the Honda doesnt even belong!It really looks out of place.Ive always loved Honda but come on:( For me it would be the new YFZR. I know,alot of you here are loyalist like I once was but I got tired of waiting for that perfect 250r four stroke replacement.I think Honda should take a Laeger hybrid and use that as a platform and improve on that.They need to leave the 90s technology alone! What are your thoughts?

[miles Machine]

i think they deff need to step up, in the GNC pro races there gonna be the only manufacturer that isnt supporting a factory team this year. I am a die hard fan myself but lately ive been noticing myself wandering over to KTM and Can am, and they are looking better and better each day.

[d3ktrix]

I think most people feel the same about this.
The 450r is a pos stock, mostly because of the suspension.
In stock forums it's my least favorite 450. Once modded, its my favorite.

Only reason I like the honda is for the smooth power of the motor, super simple electronics and its frame geometry. I feel most conformable on it, after its has all the aftermarket parts of course.

[gcart2]

lol what people dont get is why? why add all this stuff in the factory just to have to pay more and then take it all off.

for example, mx and xc racers have to replace shocks, rims, tires, axle, a arms, steering stem, handlebars, bumper, nerfbars, add a kill switch and much more.

look at suzukis, even though they are race ready you might only see 1 or two that are actually being raced like that. the rest have Walsh a arms, fox floats, and a Yoshi exhaust.

as far as the fuel injection, im fine with that, a carb never did me wrong though.

for the people that dont race they dont want to pay a crazy amount for all the extra stuff they have no use for.

[BlaineKaiser450]

Originally posted by gcart2
lol what people dont get is why? why add all this stuff in the factory just to have to pay more and then take it all off.

for example, mx and xc racers have to replace shocks, rims, tires, axle, a arms, steering stem, handlebars, bumper, nerfbars, add a kill switch and much more.

look at suzukis, even though they are race ready you might only see 1 or two that are actually being raced like that. the rest have Walsh a arms, fox floats, and a Yoshi exhaust.

as far as the fuel injection, im fine with that, a carb never did me wrong though.

for the people that dont race they dont want to pay a crazy amount for all the extra stuff they have no use for. i know man. we must think alike lol. I mean i personally dont give a crap about stock stuff other than the frame geometry and the motor (because i run stockish motors)

[mooseracerX]

Well you have to think of the people who don't have the money to spend on $2000 front ends and things like that, if they [manufactures] could improve the stock machine w/o jacking the price up as much you might see people who are racing stock machines. Like the people just getting into racing are going towards the Suzuki's, Yammis, Can-Ams etc because they are more race ready than a narrow little Honda. They don't want to spend a bunch of money. I know in the local series around me at a few of the rounds I was the only Honda.
$.02

[gcart2]

Originally posted by mooseracerX
Well you have to think of the people who don't have the money to spend on $2000 front ends and things like that, if they [manufactures] could improve the stock machine w/o jacking the price up as much you might see people who are racing stock machines. Like the people just getting into racing are going towards the Suzuki's, Yammis, Can-Ams etc because they are more race ready than a narrow little Honda. They don't want to spend a bunch of money. I know in the local series around me at a few of the rounds I was the only Honda.
$.02

a brand new suzuki cost 7500-8000
a brand new honda cost 7000
a brand new ktm cost what 9? 10? 11 grand maybe more. cmon now.


stop making these dumb threads. you guys can ***** all you want, honda will change it up when they feel it is time. Honda has the best most reliable race machines out there, always have ever since the 250r days. stop *****ing, buy some a arms, some shocks and go ride.

[mooseracerX]

Or even better yet find a fully build 450r on ebay for $3500 :)

[pilotpete]

Honda will do as much as they have too....remember they make the 450r for the public and not racing if you chuse to race it then up to you but they produce the TRX to make MONEY!!! nothing else!!!
and Honda has won pretty much every title with the 450r so must be doing something right
:D :D :D :D :D :D

[1socal450]

Sorry but I gaurantee things are passing Honda by when it comes to racing! GNCC is dominated by Yam/KTM. Lately MX pro has been dominated by Suzuki. Oh yea,Joe Bird won 2 years ago on his Honda! Oh,thats right,all the other good racers were racing in the powersports tour. Honda did good at all the local events because the gates were flooded by all the Honda loalists out there,which is why Honda is always slow to improve because they know they will still sell.They would rather put there R&D into such a awesome machine like the 700 independent rear suspension sport machine,or should I say TANK they just released,what a piece of crap!Bottom line is,someone new to the sport would be a FOOL,to walk into a honda dealer and purchase a 450r,or should I say 450t(trail by todays standards),with all the other choices out there!!! I grew up riding the ATC 250r and the TRX 250r,but times change and Honda should start giving the ATV community the same respect it gives the bikes,thats when we will see a great product.

[redrocker]

I bet you they will have
BOLD NEW GRAPHICS :)

[TRX450RACER174]

I wouldnt want a stock showroom mx bike, sure it's nice for the rider who isnt looking to compete at a competitive level but in the end u are going to waste your money on upgrades anyways, The only thing i would like to see is an aluminum frame other than that everything else is not important cause its going to get changed.

[HBRIG014]

Read all of these and agree and disagree with all of them... i ride honda and love them.... Here is the solution to the problem... they are well established enought to come out with two 450R. the normal stock one for the none racer and or Gncc racer and they could come out with an MX quad just like KTM and Can-am have done... then problem is solved.. Just my thoughts.

I agree with stock showroom race quads arent the best thing to have. one is they generally cost much more. I like the option to build a quad to the length, width and brands I like. It would be nice to widen the front to make it even with the rear and since the CRF450 has EFI now I would bet on the TRX450 should have it soon. Its been said if it aint broke then dont fix it. Theres not a lot wrong with the TRX450. Its not as updated but its still competing. However when I went to the MX races TRX450r wasnt seen very often. A lot of YFZ, some KFX, KTM, and not many LTR either. Models from the factory built for one thing r another are nice but then you have ot get the model for what your doing and buying used will be harder to find what you want. Shock wise theres nothing more really they should do maybe change the link and be more like aftermarket taking some buck out. Stock Honda shocks are pretty good. Most get replaced with aftermarket or get rebuilt to race anyways. Stock quads built to race from the showroom arent customized for each buyer so they arent that great they just take more out of the pocket.

[Brauap]

redrocker, haha!

This is what ATVsport says in their new mag about the 09 models..

...It also features a round tube steel frame, aluminum subframe and swingarm, stainless steel exhaust, a hugh-volume air box and Dunlop radial tires mounted on aluminum wheels. TRX450ER in special edition white plastic and orange flames avabilable for $300 more...

Are you kidding me guys?! It has a round tube steel frame, and a high-volume air box! Dude, it doesn't get any better! Ahahah! I mean I am a Honda fan, but come on!!! Honda needs to step it up and fast! Thataway in about 4 years, I can buy a nice used one haha.. wel with the rate Honda is going.. in 4 years.. it will still be a steel tubed frame.. possibly aluminum wheels, and maybe an EXTRA LARGE, HIGH VOLUME AIR BOX!! :eek2:

So, sorry. No EFI, Aluminum frame, ect.. atleast this year.. maybe for 2010, aluminum? Doubt it.

Yea, Honda changed the graphics.. mae the fuel tank the same color as the plastics (whoopty-doo!) changed the light.. and added ES in 06, but the Yammys had that when the first came out, 2 years before Honda had ES.. Think.. Honda's arn't the heavest in its class, but think if it when with an alumium frame, a-arms, and exhaust.. possibly 25-100 lbs? (or am I pushing it?) (the stock frame is pretty heavy..)

Uuuurrrrrgggggghhhhhh.. Honda..... when will you learn...? Don't end up like GM.. building ok quads in the beggining, (because you where ahead of the game.. IN 99'!!! (with the 400EX) then the 450R from the beggining was low tech (compared to the YFZ).. and they improved very slightly! PATHETIC HONDA!!! But odly, I still love you...?

[1socal450]

Goodbye Honda,I started my riding back in the day on the atc 250r and the trx250r.I just bought my 09 YFZ450R and it is absolutely amazing.With a pipe and intake its making 47hp.Its not only the hp,its the way its delivered,super smoothe.the ergos are the best ive felt and being 6-2,I have a bunch of room to move around.I can go on and on about this amazing machine.You will see in shootouts and on the podium just what this thing is all about.It feels faster and better handling than my old cr450 powered Laegers hybrid.Yes im sad and angry at Honda for causing me to jump ship,but oh well,I got over it after my first ride!!!

[jkiserracing]

somebody got it right about 10 answers ago...Honda sells atvs and bikes and if it sells......well you dont change it...i do not beleive Honda has been too concerned.....they dont have a factory team?????........i suppose they figure...why put the money into that...they have good riders still out there....all though Joe Byrd is still riding the 05 models.....(which he used up the last of this year) so now....this year combined with newer models from other manufacturers and a slumping economy........they (Honda) will definately feel it in the sales dept....next year i bet we will see some changes for the first time...we will just have to wait and see.....but by then alot of Honda riders may be trying out different quads by then.........they should of changed it this year to me......but im not in charge (which is a good thing)

[deathman53]

Everybody I know with a 450r, except one has a 05. The other guy has a 07 450er(I hate it). None of them like the 06+ frame, a-arms and spindles/hubs. After riding the 07 its now wonder why the 04/05 front ends are preffered.

[Dave400ex]

Another thing to remember, if they do make a bunch of changes, you then take the chance of buying a first year model. After owning an 06ER, I don't think I'd go buy the first year. Even with the "Honda" name they can mess things up. Better to wait and let everyone else find out what that stuff is!

EFI on the 700xx then the CRF450, I wouldnt be surprised if we saw it on the 2010 quad. The kickstart version I think should have the changes towards MX since thats what its mostly used for. Everytime I go to the track the 450r are kickstart and are a little lighter. Maybe go a little wider on the kickstart version

[Brauap]

Originally posted by FoxHondaRider
EFI on the 700xx then the CRF450, I wouldnt be surprised if we saw it on the 2010 quad. The kickstart version I think should have the changes towards MX since thats what its mostly used for. Everytime I go to the track the 450r are kickstart and are a little lighter. Maybe go a little wider on the kickstart version

But why would they only put EFI on the kickers? There still the same engine minus the kicker.. why not just slap the EFI on the ES's too? I mean seriously.. they have them on the 450 2 wheelers.. how f'ing hard is it to put them on the 450 4 wheelers?!

Also, the kickers are more popular for XC than the ES's therefore they probally won't make it wider.. but maybe. If Honda was smart, next year they'll have a 450R to compete against the YFZ450R.. but I doubt it. They probally first need EFI, an Aluminum frame, and a want to become more involved in there ATV's like their compedators; Yamaha, KTM, ect.

[Brauap]

Also.. they need to perfect the ES... I have heard nothing but troubles with it, and watching a few hundred XC races.. all the ES's never stand a chance to get the holeshot, being they are still cranking on that "magic button" .. :ermm:

Originally posted by Brauap
But why would they only put EFI on the kickers? There still the same engine minus the kicker.. why not just slap the EFI on the ES's too? I mean seriously.. they have them on the 450 2 wheelers.. how f'ing hard is it to put them on the 450 4 wheelers?!

Also, the kickers are more popular for XC than the ES's therefore they probally won't make it wider.. but maybe. If Honda was smart, next year they'll have a 450R to compete against the YFZ450R.. but I doubt it. They probally first need EFI, an Aluminum frame, and a want to become more involved in there ATV's like their compedators; Yamaha, KTM, ect.

never said to only put it on the kicker version I said more updates should be on the kicker like going wider since its mainly used for MX.

[maticus]

Originally posted by 1socal450
Sorry but I gaurantee things are passing Honda by when it comes to racing! GNCC is dominated by Yam/KTM. Lately MX pro has been dominated by Suzuki. Oh yea,Joe Bird won 2 years ago on his Honda! Oh,thats right,all the other good racers were racing in the powersports tour. Honda did good at all the local events because the gates were flooded by all the Honda loalists out there,which is why Honda is always slow to improve because they know they will still sell.They would rather put there R&D into such a awesome machine like the 700 independent rear suspension sport machine,or should I say TANK they just released,what a piece of crap!Bottom line is,someone new to the sport would be a FOOL,to walk into a honda dealer and purchase a 450r,or should I say 450t(trail by todays standards),with all the other choices out there!!! I grew up riding the ATC 250r and the TRX 250r,but times change and Honda should start giving the ATV community the same respect it gives the bikes,thats when we will see a great product.

if im not mistaken last year natalie won wpsa on a honda and joe byrd won gnc on a honda but he did win two years ago also.not trying to discredit anything your saying just adding some facts. but im in the same boat honda really needs to make some changes for 2010. i did notice that on hondas web site that it says 09 honda race team ( details coming soon) what ever that means.

[IMSROLL450R]

These threads make me puke. I guess I'm a fool because I would still buy a honda and mod it myself as any other motor head would. Honda reliability will never be matched. Put your tampons in and go ride your yamahahas.

Probably 10% of people who actually buy these things race so why the hell would they make them only track worthy? I'll bet my *** all the race specific bikes don't sell near as many as the hondas have.............and will.

[gcart2]

Originally posted by IMSROLL450R
These threads make me puke. I guess I'm a fool because I would still buy a honda and mod it myself as any other motor head would. Honda reliability will never be matched. Put your tampons in and go ride your yamahahas.

Probably 10% of people who actually buy these things race so why the hell would they make them only track worthy? I'll bet my *** all the race specific bikes don't sell near as many as the hondas have.............and will.

thank god someone would say it.

[RATPACK Z400]

the problem is stock width sucks feels too tippy all manufactors should make them a little wider not all riders ride tight trails,two hondas been getting by on reliabialty for too long they seem now to have more problems than the others it seems like.all other companys ARE doing what it takes to get people to buy, BUT honda, lets see 700xx-joke,450r -no improvements but color choices 400ex-plastics still not liquid cooled at the least.let see yami,700r total redone motor frame,yfz450 totally redone aluminum frame,efi,motor. suzuki 450 over 50 different things improved over the years z400 -efi ,many frame,motor mods,new look. that makes honda look like they dont care about there diehard honda riders.

[S.A.J]

if only somebody found a way to tell this to the ceo's or the people who are in charge of making changes...you would think they'd know already though and be able to figure it out on they're own,who knows mayb they're just laging behind only to blast above everybody with a super-quad nxt year or year after that or after that idk :rolleyes: they need to wake up and smell the coffee though thats fosho

[S.A.J]

i didnt know that,but im not crazy about efi anyway...for me all they need to do is,bit betr performance(hp wise) from the factory ,a nice bit wider,all aluminum,and idk might think of more things but they atleast need to change the things the general people will not change or get aftermarket like mainly the frame

[RATPACK Z400]

its only a few that convert back to carb thinking theyll gain more and dont, but most love the efi. and alumiun frames are a step to bettering the quads but width is the most important thing to me that needs to be addressed they need a xc,and mx width quad if there offering kickstart to e-start makes no sense to put kickstart for racing but without width! honda does,t improve anything ! 300ex new plastics, 400ex same+reverse,450 grafics thats as much as there lineup of sportquads have received over the years. it just retarded i was a big honda fan with the dirtbikes but when i got into quads and saw they could care less about improvements made me switch brands. and very happy with the switch!

[DEERCHOOPER]

well, heres my thoughts and or questions to everyone.

1, why do you need a aluminum frame? most quads with an aluminum frame weigh just a mush as a steel frame quad. your neighbor with a welder can fix the broken steel frame.

2, why do you need efi? a well tuned carb is the same as a set up efi. if the air/fuel ratio is correct in both it will not be better with this or that.

3, width/ stance. $9500 for a ktm thats wider. thats $3000 you have to play with after getting a new honda. thats +2 arms, elkas and a +axle and still saved money.

4, tires. i see pics all the time where ppl put all this stuff on there quad. BUT THEY STILL HAVE THE STOCK, WORN DOWN TO NOTHING, STOCK TIRES.

i think honda should take all the years of there 450r and take what was best of them years and put them together. look into the rear kick linkage and fix it/ buy from gtt or like wise and make them stock. see where they could shave a couple pounds here and there (aluminum has to be 2 times the size of steel for the same streigth so no savings there). tune them a little better and knock off some of the detuning. make 1 model with both es and kicker. make the kicker model the same color choise as the er models. throw in a $30 kill switch. i could go on but who cares, lol.

[IMSROLL450R]

agree with deerchopper............

[Dave400ex]

Originally posted by IMSROLL450R
agree with deerchopper............

They are decent points but in a way are just excuses making it seem like Honda doesn't need to make changes when in reality they need to make big improvements. If the aluminum frame is done right we wouldn't need a gusset kit or worry about it breaking. The YFZR will be a test of how well the frame and EFI can/will work.

[DEERCHOOPER]

Originally posted by Dave400ex
The YFZR will be a test of how well the frame and EFI can/will work.

why do we have to wait for the test of the yfzr? go out and buy a kawie, it has what you want right? aluminum and efi.


i dont make, work or contact honda in any way. nor did i make an excuse for them not to change but better yet i said blend all the info from past years and make the right one.

[ProspectorJim]

Originally posted by Dave400ex
The YFZR will be a test of how well the frame and EFI can/will work.

*cough*DS450*cough*

[k4f5x0r]

kfx450. weighs a bit more then the trx450. it has efi alum frame AND REVERSE. reverse adds weight. with all of that its only a bit more then your crappy out of date 450r.


Im not bashing on 450r's completely. i was close to buying one... ONLY BECAUSE THEYRE DIRT CHEAP. i hate carbuerators especially in the winter, i hate the way it sits and feels, the shocks just suck. it feels like it always wants to tip.. the one thing i did like is that its really easy to wheelie and that the power delivery was pretty smooth and even(i like it to be a bit like a two stroke sometimes and just have one spot that rips).


and this was coming off a 05. Face it. honda needs to step it up. needs a new frame shocks not neccesarily a motor but it needs a good face lift. it can keep the carbuerators although im not a fan of them at all. taking them apart to jet everytime you change something is really annoying.

this is coming from a racing point of view. if honda wants to be able to take the wins(even though they cant with no factory team) they need to bring out a better stock quad that cna be built. but for the average rider i admit the 450r's are great. but doesnt everyone want the best they can posibly get? i know i do

:devil:

I think Honda is waiting to see what the others were doing to be on top. If they wait to change all the other new quad models they arent going to change in a year or 2 to be on top because Honda beat them. Thats the way I think at least to wait to see the competition and get ahead and you will be a head for a few years. I'm pretty sure EFI will be on the 450r next year. I heard someone saying they dropped Showa shocks? The 400ex I dont think we will ever see it liquid cooled lol It was old technology when they made it the 250r was liquid cooled from the start back in the day.

[RosquistRacer39]

If honda has the mentality to wait and see what everyone else does before releasing a new model, thats the wrong attitude to have. While they are waiting others are selling, they will be missing the boat. Honda has been riding the reliability out for as long as I can remember but how many blown trannys and broken frames has the 450r had. What about the valves if you don't keep them adjusted. All the models now days have the same reliability.
I am not even that impressed with the new yamaha. It took them 5 years to come out with this? Its just a shame that all companies update their bikes every year and screw the quad crowd. I am glad can-am and ktm came into the picture. Its making the jap companies get up off their butts and do something.
But I also see more and more people getting into racing quads. Its not 10% of sells anymore and it just keeps growing. Look at the LTR, its suzukis #1 selling quad.

[Dave400ex]

Originally posted by ProspectorJim
*cough*DS450*cough*

I don't consider the Can-Am even close to the level Yamaha is at. Most of their issues were with the engine which I don't think will be a issue on the YFZR. The KFX just hasn't been a good performer either. I think the YFZR will be a good quad and prove the frame and EFI can work with no issues when done right. We'll see. I didn't say I wanted an aluminum frame or EFI, I said both can work just fine when done right. Bottom line is I am getting tired of the same ole, same ole with Honda, time for some big changes. Plus you know it can be done, look at the advances of the 09CRF.

[k4f5x0r]

just wait this year to see the true potential of the kfx. last year they were figuring things out. this year they got it down and got creamer+weinen both with their injuries healed. gunna be a good year. watching suzuki and kawasaki fight it out.

Actually I am going to say there will be a steering stabilizer on the quad from the factory like they just did with their dirtbikes and fuel injection. Other than that I cant picture much more change but I could be wrong

[300ex_#387]

I just hope that honda is sitting back and doing there homework. Everyone else has came out with something and now honda knows what works and what doesn't. It would be a huge dissapointment if they didn't come out with something great. They have got to look at what everyone else has done and what is good about them and what just doesn't work. Yamaha sat back for a bit but look what they came out with. What looks to be a great quad and they gave everyone what they asked for.

[Project300EX]

Screw EFI. More parts to mess up, more expensive to fix, more wiring, more expensive to tune, etc.

The only thing I wish is that they'd run a heavy duty aluminum frame. Or long travel stock.

[racerx573]

Originally posted by 1socal450
I know,alot of you here are loyalist like I once was but I got tired of waiting for that perfect 250r four stroke replacement.I think Honda should take a Laeger hybrid and use that as a platform and improve on that.They need to leave the 90s technology alone! What are your thoughts?

Laeger's chassis are 90s technology..

Walsh would be a better platform :-)

I also like how the YFZR, Kawie's and Can-Ams have a dirt bike style linkage.

[matt14c]

I could see Honda putting on the EFI and I too heard that from a dealer salesman about them getting a new shock company. TO be honest the next Big thing I could see em doing is reverse! It was in a magazine about 3-4 years ago an article talking with someone from Honda about the racing and back then it wasnt even in discussion. I would think that with them just going out and having privateers putting there name on the podium is enough. What would a honda factory team do that Baldwin and the other big race teams arent showing us? Why in this crap economy dump money into something that wouldnt benefit them much. Even if the percentage is larger than 10% that by these quads race them its no where near worth putting into production a whole nother quad to sell for $2000 more when just about everything that they would put on it would be pulled off by the real racer. So then the real racers are still buying the $6000 version. As far as making them wider it wont happen for that 75% + people who use them for trail and rec. riding. They would be just too wide. There is a trail here in Michigan that is rough fitting a stock width 400ex down let alone a 48-50 inch wide race machine. You would be hard pressed to get one of those KTM through without bending a rim, a-arm, axle or all of the above. Just the fact that people want to argue and complain about them not doing something still says people care about the brand. Yamaha is the only company that could ever maybe have a chance to be what Honda is and even that chance is slim. Honda has been ATV'in since the 1980's

[WoodsRacer16]

I LIKE HONDA BUT IT WILL TAKE FOREVER FOR THEM TO CHANGE.H*LL MY FIRST QUAD WAS A 300EX..I BELIVE YAMAHA HAS SHOWED THAT ATV RACING IS GROWING AND GETTING BIGGER.BY MAKING THE NEW YAMAHA YFZ450R. THE DIRT BIKE BOYS DONT EVEN HAVE WHAT ITS GOT.LOL AND KTM AND CAN-AM STEPED UP TO THE PLATE LAST YEAR AND HIT A HOME RUN.. AND ALL THAT MONEY THAT HONDA PUT IN THE 700XX AND NOT PUTTING NOTHING N TO ONE OF THE BEST SPORT QUADS IN HISTORY THE TRX450R. THAT JUST MADE ME SO GET ME A YAMAHA YFZ450.. BUT THE NEW 700XX IS A BIG PIECE OF SH**. BUT I THINK MAYBE HONDA HAS SOME THING FOR THE 2010 SEASON. BUT THATS WHAT I BEEN TOLD BY ONE OF THE HONDA GUYS... BUT IM NOT BELIEVING IT. ITS PROBABLY THEM CHANGING THE PLASTIC ON THE 400EX AGAIN TO MAKE IT SELL MORE. BUT HONDA IS LAST IN EVERTHING RIGHT NOW. AND THE ONLY REASON HONDA WON SO MUCH IS CUZ MOST OF THE TIME THAT WAS THE ONLY THING AT THE GATE AND THAT ONE YAMAHA RIDER AND NOW IM THAT YAMAHA RIDER AND WINNING MORE THEN EVER. BUT NOW THERE IS MORE 450S OUT. YOUR SEEING MORE COLORS THEN RED TAKING HOME FIRST PLACE.... AND THATS THE TRUTH FROM THAT BLUE GUY TAKING HOME FIRST PLACE FROM THE RED GUY!!!

[IMSROLL450R]

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t219/IMSROLL450R/Funny/capslock.jpg

[ThePhantomRider]

Honda may suffer because of the economy...even if they accomplish 1/2 of what they have been working on I'd be surprised at this point. The next 450r may be further off than we would want because ATV's just aren't selling right now so to add expense to a new product that is not a utility would be a risk.

TPR

[ALAMX37]

No matter what Honda does, you will always see them towards the front. Why do you think the pro privateers use Honda's? It is still one of the best platforms available. Why change anything when you have the success and following Honda has?

[k4f5x0r]

the onyl reason honda's are always in front is because they have the most and some of the best riders. by far WAYYYYYYYYY more 450r's are owned in the world then any other (450cc) race quad. this is because honda released it way before any other company and claimed dominance over yamaha right away(reliability)

i give props to honda for that. but also they need to update if they want to stay on top. im not saying its bad for trail riding or the weekend warrior. but for extreme race conditions the frame isnt holding up and the handling could be improved greatly... i honestly beleive they should remake the 250r frame to fit a 450 motor. basically like the crf/400ex or crf/250r hybrids. THEN honda would truly dominate

[coryatver]

It would be awesome if they just asked dealers, racers and stuff what the problem areas are and fix them and leave what works alone. No need to do some crazy hybred frame or frame design like the yfzr or ds, efi and more electric junk. Its a great platform with some problems that could easily and cheaply be corrected to improve it.

[RATPACK Z400]

I just stopped by stealership the other day you cant tell hondas quads apart from a distance the 250,400,450 look alike then compare the 450 honda to the others it looks outdated and plain,standing next to the new yfz450r it looks like s##t! one person said that the hondas a better value than the KTM Please the KTM 11,500 honda 7200 the money that it take,s to get to the KTM level is Alot more lets see $2000-3000 front end rearend $2000-3000 steering stem $200,tires/wheels $500,nerfs $200,KSwitch $50,pipe,filter,jets $500-700, Gussets/PC $500,the cheap brands would still have you over the KTM in Price!the honda would be with mods in the price range of13,200-18,000.where,s the saving,s at ?And I probably forgot some things!

[matt14c]

Originally posted by k4f5x0r
the onyl reason honda's are always in front is because they have the most and some of the best riders. by far WAYYYYYYYYY more 450r's are owned in the world then any other (450cc) race quad. this is because honda released it way before any other company and claimed dominance over yamaha right away(reliability)

i give props to honda for that. but also they need to update if they want to stay on top. im not saying its bad for trail riding or the weekend warrior. but for extreme race conditions the frame isnt holding up and the handling could be improved greatly... i honestly beleive they should remake the 250r frame to fit a 450 motor. basically like the crf/400ex or crf/250r hybrids. THEN honda would truly dominate

The Yamaha was out about a year and a half before the Honda 450R came out.

[EXracer83]

If it ain't broke don't fix it. Thats what I was always told.

[mooseracerX]

Originally posted by EXracer83
If it ain't broke don't fix it. That's what I was always told.
That's funny you would say that. I've always been told that too but really for me its like if it ain't broke change it til it is. ;)

[k4f5x0r]

Originally posted by matt14c
The Yamaha was out about a year and a half before the Honda 450R came out.


i know yamaha was out but i didnt realize it was that long before. But honda still took the lead over yamaha.

all in all. honda needs to change something besides plastics,graphics, and anything that doesnt matter. i mean seriously now. atleast put a set of decent damn bars on there :huh

[ALAMX37]

Originally posted by RATPACK Z400
I just stopped by stealership the other day you cant tell hondas quads apart from a distance the 250,400,450 look alike then compare the 450 honda to the others it looks outdated and plain,standing next to the new yfz450r it looks like s##t! one person said that the hondas a better value than the KTM Please the KTM 11,500 honda 7200 the money that it take,s to get to the KTM level is Alot more lets see $2000-3000 front end rearend $2000-3000 steering stem $200,tires/wheels $500,nerfs $200,KSwitch $50,pipe,filter,jets $500-700, Gussets/PC $500,the cheap brands would still have you over the KTM in Price!the honda would be with mods in the price range of13,200-18,000.where,s the saving,s at ?And I probably forgot some things!


OK well that is an option. But have they proven to be as reliable as big red. For comparison only. I have had 4 race bikes in my days. 250r, crf hybrid, and two YFZ's. I never not even once dnf'ed on any one of my Honda's. At least 3 solid seasons with no dnf's. My Yammi broke every other weekend, and I maintained it better than I have either of my honda's. Its a winning platform, it has the aftermarket following of the 250r. I can honestly say every dime I have spent with Honda has been money well spent.

[Allison55ex'er]

I think that we all need to realize that fuel injection and aluminum is the future. It should be expected that there will be problems with it but when these companies get the kinks worked out we will have lighter faster and stronger quads. I dont like the can-ams but i would say they hit the nail right on the head by having the three different versions mx xc and base quad

[RATPACK Z400]

I didn,t hear that ds450 come,s in 3 different models thats seem,s a waste ,and efi,better frame wheither alum,chromoly IMO the best choice is the future! thank God suzuki put ball in motion with a MX RACEQUAD!now others have to step up,Or be left behind!cant wait to see suzuki,s big bore to compete with raptor.

[ProspectorJim]

Originally posted by RATPACK Z400
I didn,t hear that ds450 come,s in 3 different models thats seem,s a waste ,and efi,better frame wheither alum,chromoly IMO the best choice is the future! thank God suzuki put ball in motion with a MX RACEQUAD!now others have to step up,Or be left behind!cant wait to see suzuki,s big bore to compete with raptor.

How is that a waste?
If you're an mx racer and want a new bike, theres a DS for you. If you're an xc racer theres a DS for you. And if you're just a recreation rider wanting to ride some trails theres a DS for you.

[spanky101]

Originally posted by RATPACK Z400
I just stopped by stealership the other day you cant tell hondas quads apart from a distance the 250,400,450 look alike then compare the 450 honda to the others it looks outdated and plain,standing next to the new yfz450r it looks like s##t! one person said that the hondas a better value than the KTM Please the KTM 11,500 honda 7200 the money that it take,s to get to the KTM level is Alot more lets see $2000-3000 front end rearend $2000-3000 steering stem $200,tires/wheels $500,nerfs $200,KSwitch $50,pipe,filter,jets $500-700, Gussets/PC $500,the cheap brands would still have you over the KTM in Price!the honda would be with mods in the price range of13,200-18,000.where,s the saving,s at ?And I probably forgot some things!

There is only one slight problem with your thinking and it is that the ktm is not selling for 11.5k, anywhere. I know i could go to a shop right now and pick one up for 9.5k otd without even having to haggle or any of that crap. So that gives you 2300 to make the honda as good as the ktm which imo wont happen. Between front end, rear end, axle, motor and other small items you wont touch the ktm for the same money.

[k265r]

i would rather work on a honda. why didnt yamaha fuel inject their bikes for 09? and didn't the honda 700x win baja? the new crf fuel injection leaves the rest behind.

[RSF Motorsports]

for all you fuel injection lovers. You can put the '09 CRF450r dirt bike fuel injection on your TRX450r. We just did one to an '05 TRX450r and it works well.

[spanky101]

What all is needed? The fuel injection unit and then the computer id imagine? Pretty easy swap or very difficult? Sorta curious lol

[whitebros400]

Can you post some pics of that engine.

[RSF Motorsports]

sorry quad is already out the door. but it was fairly simple. you have to run the CRF450 wiring harness and all the electronics. cdi box, capacitor, etc. ect. you'll have to fab a mount up front for the fuel injector module. I chose to mount the capacitor & fuses in the air box. then its just buy a Honda pim and go!!!

[Honda 250r 001]

all i can say is screw efi. lol.

[Honda 250r 001]

Originally posted by k4f5x0r
the onyl reason honda's are always in front is because they have the most and some of the best riders. by far WAYYYYYYYYY more 450r's are owned in the world then any other (450cc) race quad. this is because honda released it way before any other company and claimed dominance over yamaha right away(reliability)

i give props to honda for that. but also they need to update if they want to stay on top. im not saying its bad for trail riding or the weekend warrior. but for extreme race conditions the frame isnt holding up and the handling could be improved greatly... i honestly beleive they should remake the 250r frame to fit a 450 motor. basically like the crf/400ex or crf/250r hybrids. THEN honda would truly dominate

keep the 250 motor in it and you have a keeper. Or maybe a 350 motor. Now your talkin.

[IMSROLL450R]

Originally posted by Honda 250r 001
all i can say is screw efi. lol.


BOOOOOOO

[warr72]

Well I must be one of the fools for buying a new Honda in alot of peoples minds I guess. But the reliability factor of my Honda and once uncorked and tuned will eat the competition up. I spent a little over 6,000 for my 08 and the upgrading to true race form were about 1500. Now with that, I done all my own work, but another reason to buy Honda as they are easy to work on. Any quad you buy new or used is not race ready unless you had that quad built for you and how you ride. All the race quads are base platforms for us to change to our styles and abilities. Honda's base platform is cheaper and parts are easy to find. Had my choice of any brand I wanted and I went with a Honda with no regrets. :devil:

[400exrider69]

i didn't read this whole thread but the 2010 honda 450r WILL be fuel injected
when i talked to the dealer last week that's what he said that he's sure that the 2010 450r will be fi

[k265r]

Originally posted by hondarider11
I sure hope that they put an aluminum frame on it and have a wider model.

what are your reasons for needing an aluminum frame and wider stance?

[k265r]

Originally posted by hondarider11
I would like to have a quad that you can go to the track with or race without modding the suspension right away. I want an aluminum frame because kawasaki,yamaha, and can am have them and they look to hold up alot better and look better.

good points you make. I would rather see manufactures build quads people can buy and ride not race machines. you will get the average person on a 70hp quad get hurt and sue the manufacture. we will be in the same place as we were with the 250r to many people sue happy over their own mistakes. I like to see aftermarket companies have a part of the racing world. If all we have is race quads to buy you could say good bye to some good people that have made racing possible for the past 28 years. would you be willing to spend 20,000 for a honda ready to race?

[RSF Motorsports]

Originally posted by k265r
what are your reasons for needing an aluminum frame and wider stance?

This is a touchy subject for all manufacturers. All the 450 dirtbikes have aluminum frames and pretty good stock suspension. Honda came out with the first aluminum frame dirtbike in 1997. Honda ATV's are still running carbs, steel frames and pretty much junk suspension.

The aluminum frame would give a better platform for building a race quad that is lightweight but durable. The wider stance is more rider preference and is more applicable as to what type of riding you do.

Honda pushed the industry for the first aluminum dirtbike frame, Giving Jeremy McGrath an ultimatum "ride the new aluminum frame or be in breach of contract". They should have been the first to push for an aluminum frame for quads as well.

[ProConcept]

Originally posted by Chris 281
This is a touchy subject for all manufacturers. All the 450 dirtbikes have aluminum frames and pretty good stock suspension. Honda came out with the first aluminum frame dirtbike in 1997. Honda ATV's are still running carbs, steel frames and pretty much junk suspension.

The aluminum frame would give a better platform for building a race quad that is lightweight but durable. The wider stance is more rider preference and is more applicable as to what type of riding you do.

Honda pushed the industry for the first aluminum dirtbike frame, Giving Jeremy McGrath an ultimatum "ride the new aluminum frame or be in breach of contract". They should have been the first to push for an aluminum frame for quads as well.
Honda has never put the effort into their quads as they do bikes. The company has the mentality that it's their way or the highway, it doesn't matter what the other companies are doing in terms of design. They also hold strongly to their idea that the superior engineering of their machines is what is winning races, never the riders. In motogp for example, Honda would blame the rider for not doing well when something with the bike was obviously giving him grief. It was never the bikes fault in Honda's view.

[RATPACK Z400]

My thing with the manufactors building fast quads is to give the stance it need,s for that kind of hp, and then theyll, be safer to ride ! cant have lots of power with poor suspention/width,need longer swingarms so it not a wheelie monster,wider stance that keeps it from tipping sideways in turns with offcambers/bumps etc.Some brands frame,s aren,t tuff enuff for the abuse on mx tracks that needs to get better desisned aswell.by making two version of models xc and mx is the best way to satify all riders!IMO

[ALAMX37]

This is ridiculous. Honda just like every other manufacturer with a brain makes machines for the all around rider. No one application is adressed with a stock machine, unless you get the new XC or MX versions of a few manufacturers. What a waste of money to build mx only machines, when the only person that will purchase it is a mx rider. Why wouldn't you build a good solid platform for all racers to base off of?

Aluminum frames are not lighter, you weighed a Kawasaki?

EFI is far from bullet proof.

So why make these unnecassary mods that could push a rider to choose another brand. Honda has legendary reliability. And any pro rider given the choice would be on a Honda or Suzuki.

[Tommy Warren]

I think honda should do away with the 400ex and make a trx450r with fuel injection and some suspension updates. also they should put a taller first gear to save the clutch and build it with trail use and whatever else the 400ex is good for in mind. add reverse and put electric start on it.

and then come out with the trx450RR kind of like the cbr600RR. make it with 50" stance put some elkas on from the factory and give the option of efi or carb. give it some mx tires lose the reverse and give the option of kick or electric.

[k4f5x0r]

so the truth comes out ^^ :p

just messin hondarider. Honda doesnt have to do anything spectacular. like completely remodel it. But atleast change the frame to aluminum or put some 18's on it stock. do something nice to make the honda folk feel good :D

[RideRaceLive93]

elkas from the factory whats does your dog poop gold coins?? thoses shocks are hand made so mass producing them like that is not cost effective.Secondly reverse is not ideal as for it adds weight and most true racers could care lees for it.Also although the geometry of the frames is a proven design if honda can could come out with something a little revamped that would be nice.Im not a big fan of aluminum frames except for the corrosion factors.as for mx width im not sure mabye a 47 to 48'' at most for the all around xc racer or trail rider becouse if your racin mx you want to go long travel anyways.mabye some new wheel where you can change offset like the new omf wheels

[Tommy Warren]

Originally posted by hondarider11
Well Tommy I will guarantee you they will not make 5 differnt models or whatever the hell you are talking about. Right now it looks like two different models is too much to ask. Also if honda put elkas on it from the factory I would be switching to suzuki or yamaha for sure. Every other brand is going aluminum frame and efi so why can't honda? I know efi is far from bullet proof but I am sure after a year of it on a 450 quad they will have it figured out. I know the aluminum frame is not much lighter but to me it is just the idea of having a updated quad without a junk steel frame.

so you don't like the idea of a trail quad and a race quad.....

[Tommy Warren]

Originally posted by hondarider11
That is why it would be Ideal to produce two of the same exact quads but one wider with smaller wheels and one that is a trail/xc quad. As for reverse I think it is quicker to get off and push it then it is to piss with the buttons and levers. It is just something that cost's money to get taken out by racers.

so you do like the idea of a trail quad and a race quad?????

[TCracin440ex]

Originally posted by Tommy Warren
I think honda should do away with the 400ex and make a trx450r with fuel injection and some suspension updates. also they should put a taller first gear to save the clutch and build it with trail use and whatever else the 400ex is good for in mind. add reverse and put electric start on it.

and then come out with the trx450RR kind of like the cbr600RR. make it with 50" stance put some elkas on from the factory and give the option of efi or carb. give it some mx tires lose the reverse and give the option of kick or electric.


ok im no genuis(sp) by far...but why would honda get rid of a down right reliable quad, that is still the best trail quad ever...i went from a 400ex to a 450r, let me tell you thats a huge jump. ok so they get rid of the 400ex that leaves the 250ex and 300ex....so the kids coming off the 250ex and 300ex have to settle for a 450r? instead of a mild mannerd 400ex that anybody can ride?

and its known for a fact that a 400ex is still being raced and still winning today even against the 450s....that is one quad i will never take anything from...i had a 400ex and i beat the hell out of it and she just kept on a gettin

[k4f5x0r]

Originally posted by hondarider11
Haha I never said I had anything against aluminum frames and EFI! Honda does need to do something big to keep up. I am still looking for a bike I decided not to get another 2 stroke becuase I just sold my cr80 last night and I hated it cuz it was 2 stroke. I am looking for a 250f. If I like the bike and I am better on it then I used to be on bikes I might not even get another quad. Quads are too much money and they too much money to build.

Hey man im in the same boat. Im really starting to get back into bikes. i grew up on bikes and rode bikes up until 2 years ago. and now i picked up the 250f im im just loving it more and more. the quad still gets its weekly beating though :devil:

[Tommy Warren]

Originally posted by TCracin440ex
ok im no genuis(sp) by far...but why would honda get rid of a down right reliable quad, that is still the best trail quad ever...i went from a 400ex to a 450r, let me tell you thats a huge jump. ok so they get rid of the 400ex that leaves the 250ex and 300ex....so the kids coming off the 250ex and 300ex have to settle for a 450r? instead of a mild mannerd 400ex that anybody can ride?

and its known for a fact that a 400ex is still being raced and still winning today even against the 450s....that is one quad i will never take anything from...i had a 400ex and i beat the hell out of it and she just kept on a gettin

If you took a 450r and geared it the same as 400ex, put reverse one it, and electric start, and maybe some other small things you would have liquid cooled, updated, more powerful version of the 400ex. just call it the 450r.

and then take the current 450r give it fuel injection, aluminum frame, make it wider, give it better suspension, 18" mx or Xc tires, and give the option of kick or electric start and BAMM you have the trx450rr.

[TCracin440ex]

Originally posted by Tommy Warren
If you took a 450r and geared it the same as 400ex, put reverse one it, and electric start, and maybe some other small things you would have liquid cooled, updated, more powerful version of the 400ex. just call it the 450r.

and then take the current 450r give it fuel injection, aluminum frame, make it wider, give it better suspension, 18" mx or Xc tires, and give the option of kick or electric start and BAMM you have the trx450rr.


what im saying is a 450 machine aint made to be lugged arround like a 400ex is....i even had mine geared down....it was still geared to high for trails and required alot of clutch work...you apparently dont get it...if it aint broke dont fix it...theres nothing wrong with the 400ex its been proven since it came out....ppl *****ed it needed reverse and liquid cooling....well one of the demands was met...it now has reverse...honda is still selling a great deal of 400ex's....u missed my point completely...there are some PEOPLE out there who dont want a 450...ask speedyquad he had a 450 and sold it and stuck with the 400ex....

for 2...there are some "less" experienced riders out there that have out grown their 300ex, and 250ex...well if you get rid of the 400ex all together the next BIG step up will be a 450R, thats a bit much for the average rider...and far as reverse why? i could spin my old 400ex and my 450r arround twice as fast as it took somebody to put a sport quad in reverse...

IMO if you need reverse on a sport quad you dont need to be riding it, need to go ahead and get you a luxery(sp) ute quad that has reverse and all that other junk

if you dont know how to whip them arround then im sorry somebody needs to teach you how to ride

trx 450RR sounds so retarded in my opinion...and BAM if you was smart as you think you are you would be a fairley dangerous man...IF they was going to do this *which they wont* it would be called the trx 450XX just like the 700...

you are asking entirely too much from honda...yes it would be nice for them to make the 450r "MORE UPDATED". i was stoked with my 450r and if they do the efi, alu frame it will rip, id still like to see it kept at a reasonable width and stance simply bc im the every kinda terrain rider...ill go to the mx track, ill ride trails, ill ride fields....

part of the fun of having a quad IMO is watching the UPS man roll up knowing hes got a box full of parts for you. even if they cost. so i really dont want extremely wide a-arms, face it most racers will trash the stock a-arms anyways so thats wasted materials making each a-arm 2 or 3 inches wider...


and yes i would like to see them do more with the 400ex...liquid cooling would be awsome and EFI, but we have to face the fact the 400ex is a proven machine...might get some BNG or a face lift every few years to keep ppl guessin, but other then that still gonna remain the same XR400 motor that honda originally put in the 400ex's

[TCracin440ex]

sorry for the rant ha!


oh yea if you was to put the same low gearing in the 450r thats in the 400ex you would find that quad boucing off the box all the time bc the 450 motors rev alot quicker then the 400ex do. i believe thats why ALL the 450s ive ever rode had tall gears in them. not just the 450r, but the ltr, yfz, and kfx

[warr72]

No matter what someone will always complain. ;)

[ALAMX37]

Well here is the truth. Honda isn't changing anytime soon. For good reason.
You dont like go get something else, they dont need nor ask for your business. But you know it dont get much better than a 450r.

[k265r]

Originally posted by ALAMX37
Well here is the truth. Honda isn't changing anytime soon. For good reason.
You dont like go get something else, they dont need nor ask for your business. But you know it dont get much better than a 450r.

agree

[RATPACK Z400]

One thing I cant stand is the 45-46in wheel base is terrible! I dont race But I want good handling! not some tippy 45-46in width quad that to me handles like crap ,I ride 49 now with NO problem with tight trails ,if the trails are too tight why ride them ill go ride some where else , IMO.honda is losing customers to other brands cause they dont improve there models ,and yes they need improvement,s on all of them, I was a honda fan till the Z hit, blow away the 400ex in performance etc.etc. suzuki then just kept there foot on the gas and honda has stalled (except for the half ute 700xx) and kawi,s yami, turned up the gas and so has other,s brands. honda,s losing customer,s by the minute!I will never buy a honda ever again unless its a steal of a deal , I want a manufactor that improve,s, listen,s to there customers!Honda,s DEAF to there diehard fans!there being served the same crap yr after yr and brag its the best!HAHA

[TCracin440ex]

dude if your such a suzuki fan then why flame this thread with your usless garabage, apparently you havent been reading or looking, the trx 450r has been beating everything even with the out dated carb set up, come on now dude get with the program

how is it that some carburated cars can beat fuel injected cars, well bc if you got them tuned right they are just as good if not better

as for the z400 beating out the 400ex. come on dont flatter yourself i recall a ton of z400s frames being broke, the big chunk of alu. swing arms were junk along with their sware bearing carriers....do us a favor go back to the z400 or ltr forum and leave this one be

EDIT: the only thing the z slowhundred had up on the 400ex was the liquid cooling and reverse. i had the choice to get either one when i bought my 400ex back in the day and i went with my 400ex. simply put more reliable, easier to work on, got a better carburator set up then the z400 had, and it didnt sit as high as the z400

[k265r]

I dont want to bash, but i will this is the honda page. yamahas are twitchy you can turn a honda it will turn when you want it to. yamahas hesitate or feel twitchy always have been. suzukis lack power they dont rev or make power like a honda.

The discussion is will honda answer? yes they will they always do. will they make everyone happy? no, is that even possible.
I dont want to see an aluminum frame I would rather see a chro-moly frame. Fuel injection yes hondas fuel injection will outperform the others in my opinion. Width wise if you need it you can buy most people do. The reason honda dosnt treat atvs the same as bikes they dont sell as many sport atvs they would sell even less race atvs. Another point is manufactures make a wider variety of quads than bikes yet most people say they dont care about atvs

[TCracin440ex]

Originally posted by k265r
I dont want to bash, but i will this is the honda page. yamahas are twitchy you can turn a honda it will turn when you want it to. yamahas hesitate or feel twitchy always have been. suzukis lack power they dont rev or make power like a honda.

The discussion is will honda answer? yes they will they always do. will they make everyone happy? no, is that even possible.
I dont want to see an aluminum frame I would rather see a chro-moly frame. Fuel injection yes hondas fuel injection will outperform the others in my opinion. Width wise if you need it you can buy most people do. The reason honda dosnt treat atvs the same as bikes they dont sell as many sport atvs they would sell even less race atvs. Another point is manufactures make a wider variety of quads than bikes yet most people say they dont care about atvs


agreed. i just really hate when somebody comes in here bench racing and bashing when apparently they dont know nada

honda answerd us once before with the trx 450r, actually they did 2x bc in 06 they put e-start on it and had a kick too, they even put a higher compression in the 06-up models.

i hope they dont make them extremely wide. id like to see them kept bout the width of the 450r now, just look at all the suzuki riders who race xc who had to buy narrow a-arms just to compete even in a lower class

[jkiserracing]

Thats true but theres just as many Suzuki mx riders that didnt........maybe 2 models would be cool like the ktm and can-am...one xc/sport and one mx......but..........since this thread has started the whole small atv/motorcycle issue has come about so I bet thier priorities have switched to that right now.......

but that would be cool huh......trx 450rxc or trx 450rmx.....hey i think im on to something here.....

[RATPACK Z400]

Another upset honda owner cant take hearing that suzuki,s are kicking butt and have been for year,s now! and your 400ex frames are just as brakable it,s just nobody raced them back in 2002 cause there was better quad,s to race like hybrid,s, cannadale,s, Z,s and R,s!Ex,s were,nt fast enuff with a 440 bore to a 440Z they got SMOKED on the track.And to say the suzuki,s Dont have the power you definitly dont know what your talking about ,there get mid 60,s out of those motor same as the hondas so where,s the lack in power ?Wimmer passing people like there sitting still !yes they may get alittle more out the honda a hp or two on top so what ,more likely to brake down too.

[k265r]

Originally posted by RATPACK Z400
Another upset honda owner cant take hearing that suzuki,s are kicking butt and have been for year,s now! and your 400ex frames are just as brakable it,s just nobody raced them back in 2002 cause there was better quad,s to race like hybrid,s, cannadale,s, Z,s and R,s!Ex,s were,nt fast enuff with a 440 bore to a 440Z they got SMOKED on the track.And to say the suzuki,s Dont have the power you definitly dont know what your talking about ,there get mid 60,s out of those motor same as the hondas so where,s the lack in power ?Wimmer passing people like there sitting still !yes they may get alittle more out the honda a hp or two on top so what ,more likely to brake down too.

Honda owners dont get upset they ride a reliable honda. The frames of the hybrids you talk about were 250R based frames. hondas geometry rules! sorry to tell you this suzuki Z400 cases did not hold up when you made them a 450. Oh ya you need to buy both case halves. Suzuki still cant machine there cases like honda can. Hondas are the most reliable when power is involved.

Round 1
4 hondas in the top ten
2 suzukis
1 yamaha

Round 2
4 hondas
2 suzukis
1 yamaha

Round 3
3 hondas
2 suzukis
1 yamaha

seems like honda and there old school technology is on top this year.

[TCracin440ex]

me an upset honda owner..no, you a dumb *** who comes on this "HONDA" thread and flames. YES! dude the z400 aint all your making them out to be ive rode several and never impressed me. the only thing suzuki had up on honda in 03 was the liquid cooling and reverse.


and furthermore this aint about the z slowhundred. this was about the trx 450r and your dumb opinions on it. that its lacking power blah blah blah. sure is mighty funny that k265 just posted up buncha results and seems like honda is number one on both of them

i will say its not always the quad. in mx its 85% the rider


please take your garbage elsewhere and dont dump it over here. go trash up the z400 forum or the lt-r forum.

[RATPACK Z400]

You forgot to put the suzuki,s in first place! you guy,s only think that honda,s are the best and the rest suck i like all quads just some are better than others, i just think honda doe,s the least for the sport and there quads. and i use to be a big honda fan till I saw how they treated there customer,s and saw how they didn,t improve there sportquads .Had 400ex got stolen then got Z best quad I ever had hands down cant wait til I get a LTR450 next I would get a honda BUT they have there problems as well cranks?,frame are the weakest of all frames, and you need to spend thousands more than the other quads to make race ready, they dont have a quad thats 49-50 width track ready like i like I dont race but thats the kind of quad I like to ride I dont wont some 45-46inch tippy BS !riding that width a joke!And yeah the Z 450 Beat the 450r its first year out ! ha ha, case,s could,nt hold up yeah right ,another suzuki hater making up some BS! it was the magnisium valve cover,s Dumb ###.

[RATPACK Z400]

Oh and another thing suzuki doe have the best plateform to start off with in racing mx now for the money honda doe,st even come close to cost you take to Ltr450 put national kit ,revalve shocks nerfs and kill switch you good to go for under 10,000 .this IS what Honda NEEDS to do!Or lose future cutomers.IMO

[TCracin440ex]

your plum stupid, by far one of the stupidest people on this sight...do us a favor. go back to the z400 forum. i hate idiots like you who sit there and flame and bench race. hondas had the perfect frame geometry for years you DF.


oh and for your 411, i was looking at a suzuki king quad 750 because i sold my 450r when times got hard. so stfu im not no brand bias SOB like you.

[RATPACK Z400]

im not hating honda I want to step it up like the rest, Hondas are looking so cheesy, now to the rest of the brands and they are the self proclaimed leader in the industry. I dont need to fight with these little rich kids that dont know squt and cant hold a debate in a adult manner without calling someone a ###### when they dont even know what there talking about they think cause mommy and daddy buy them quad and take them racing and when they brake take them to the dealer to get fix they know everything!This forum for opion,s on honda that what people are doing so if YOU TC440expoc dont like it dont post !

[warr72]

So my 08 LE looks cheesy????? So here is my opinion to you, learn to spell, get a real quad, and quit being jealous of us Honda owners. ;)

[k265r]

I've never had a problem with Honda customer service they always been friendly and helpful. Honda cranks had very few problems someone blew that out of proportion. Suzuki didn't have a 450 until 06. The case issues i am talking about are when you take a Z400 and turn it into a 450. The cases (bottom end) would not hold up to the extra cc's. They could handle 430cc in practice bikes but could not handle 450cc. One race on the cases then you would need to replace them. Frames break in MX it happens to all of them. I don't think aluminum is the solution way more rigid makes them handle different.

Someone can always put together one season and win. I don't see Suzuki dominating every race they go to neither does Honda or Yamaha. There are more Hondas in the top ten of MX then any other brand. We are talking about MX since you complaint is width of a quad. It could be there is more loyal Honda riders than others.

[TCracin440ex]

Originally posted by RATPACK Z400
im not hating honda I want to step it up like the rest, Hondas are looking so cheesy, now to the rest of the brands and they are the self proclaimed leader in the industry. I dont need to fight with these little rich kids that dont know squt and cant hold a debate in a adult manner without calling someone a ###### when they dont even know what there talking about they think cause mommy and daddy buy them quad and take them racing and when they brake take them to the dealer to get fix they know everything!This forum for opion,s on honda that what people are doing so if YOU TC440expoc dont like it dont post !

no i get mad when you sit on here and bench race, honda has stepped up in my opinion a bunch of times. the 04-05 450 was an accomplishment in my opinon, and then they stepped up again in 06 and done the estart and so on

far as honda service my one way clutch on the starter went out on my trx 450r and i was a good 3 months out of warrenty and honda coverd it fully. ive never had a minutes problem with hondas service, and whenever they had a recall i was prompty e-mailed & mail sent to my home address.


me rich? no i wish i was. i work hard for every dollar i get and aint nothing handed to me. sorry you got your facts all backwards

nobody paid for anything on my quad or worked on my quad but me. the only time i took it to the dealer was when it was recalled on the throttle linkage on the carb, and the one way clutch on the starter

[motofreak2772]

Originally posted by RATPACK Z400
Oh and another thing suzuki doe have the best plateform to start off with in racing mx now for the money honda doe,st even come close to cost you take to Ltr450 put national kit ,revalve shocks nerfs and kill switch you good to go for under 10,000 .this IS what Honda NEEDS to do!Or lose future cutomers.IMO

Why would I want to pay the extra cash for wider a-arms and better shocks when I'm just going to end up taking it off and buying aftermarket products to race on. Why do you even want to talk about the suzukis winning? Cuz they definatley arent winning on that "Oh-So-Great" stock race ready quad your talking about. It doesnt matter how great a bike comes stock, cuz there will always be better aftermarket parts that racers will insist on buying.

The day I can buy a quad without a headlight is the day that I will agree that any company cares about ATV MX racing. Yeah Honda doesnt support racing as much as the others but who says they have too? All I want is a light base quad with a strong motor and frame that will push the racing aspect of this sport. Do I think Honda will do this? IDK Im sure they will sooner or later.

[TCracin440ex]

Originally posted by hondarider11
I do not see why ratpackz400 pointing fingers at everyone here when he started it. The ltr does not impress me at all and if it was between a 400ex and z400 it would be the 400ex becuase they are bulletproof and what do people do with 400s? TRAIL RIDE! It is poinltess to have this amazing 400 when it wont compete on a track. The ltr has nothing over the honda when they are both fully built with the best mods becuase everyone knows the ltr with a carb is better than efi. Both quads with the same mods would be about the same it all comes down to rider preference. I could really care less though becuase I have riden my 450r for about 15 minutes since I got my bike I am just trying to support this argument.


never impressed me either and ive ridden one. my 450r with the carb set up right was better then a ltr with a CB and full yosh exhaust. and all i had was a simple hrc kit in my quad, k&n filter, and wb carbon pro 2 exhaust

i just hope honda dont go out on a limb and make their quads extremely wide bc there are still ppl out there like myself who like to do it all. trail ride, a lil motocross every now and then, and play in some fields too

[RATPACK Z400]

You know the funny thing is all of you think you need $2000 frontends and rearends to compete agains,t other rider,s when it come,s down to plan skill, the part,s are only an advantage to someone with the skill,s to use them like the pro,s not the average racer, the average racer can with good skills beat a guy with all the high dollar parts that is,n,t as skilled.you guy,s just hate any quad that isn,t honda period Iv,e noticed all honda guy,s on here throw a hissy fit when you talk anything bad about honda but its ok for you to talk trash about other brands ! Seem like Im the only one with balls to say something about it! you guy need to take some of are opions too with out getting so upset it,s only are opion.Oh and you never saw a 400ex take a crecked flag agains,t a Z in the pro ranks that for sure!

[TCracin440ex]

DUDE YOU ARE ON THE TRX 450R FORUM. WHY WOULD WE NOT GET UPSET WHEN YOU COME ON HERE BASHING OUR QUAD?? NEVER SEEN ME ONCE ON THE LT-R FORUM OR THE Z400 FORUM BASHING. BOTTOM LINE!!


FOR 2 MIGHT WANT TO FLIP YOUR MONITOR OVER OR SOMETHING BECAUSE YOUR USING COMMAS IN YOUR WORDS INSTEAD OF AN APOSTROPE.


PLEASE LEARN HOW TO SPELL AND TYPE BEFORE YOU COME ON HERE MAKING YOURSELF LOOK IGNORANT

BOTTOM LINE YOU ARE JUST A NOTHER TOOL DOUCHE BAG!! WAY TO GO!!

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z254/OneBaddAssZ71/toolacademy.jpg

[RATPACK Z400]

OK little boy! Ill go now you really told me .

yea, just go ride your p.o.s 400 with the baby blue spraypainted frame. :rolleyes: :mad:

[k4f5x0r]

Hey i just wanna put this out there, and by no means do i want to start another flame war (LOL), but alot of honda guys always come into the kawasaki forum(along with every other company) and do the same thing ratpak is. Ive gotten fed up having company wars because i honestly dont care what others thing. i ride what i ride because i like it, not because its what everyone thinks is best.

haha i agree. :ermm:

[k4f5x0r]

yea i still feel like a total idiot for the war i started. sorry about that again hahaha.

back onto topic:

I hope honda atleast brings out a few models like can am. lets say like this

for a base model take the 09 trx and keep it exactly the same. just some newbold colors.

then bring out a trx450rXC. Give this model some normal XC upgrades. such as some good tires and rims stock, decent set of bars with nerf bars and softer shocks. maybe give it +1 a arms with 4-1 rims. Typical GNCC quad.

then a trx450MX. give it the 49.5 stance, long travel shocks set up slightly stiffer(maybe setup for a 185 pound rider) with some beadlocks and 18's back 20 fronts. an appropriate MX linkage in the rear with some nice big nerfbars. have it with a fully gusseted frame so its basically ready to go.

then agian i cant expect too much with this economy. I just hope honda brings the game to keep it up with can am and KTM. hopefully kawi will bring it up a notch with a few other "race ready" models too.

honestly i dont think honda will change. because i mean 60% of the people who ride a honda just do rec, and ride for fun and dont upgrade it to much(other than nerfs and small stuff). but i agree with you i think they should offer different versions. haha

[HBRIG014]

I love my honda, Z 400s suck a**, i do like other brands, if i were to ever sell my honda id go KTM and or Can Am, and if i couldnt get one of them id get KFX,
just my .02$
and i bought all my own **** not paid for by my parents.

I like the hondas the way they are, good for the every day rider and a good base quad for us MX'ers and Also a good base For the GNCC, i would like to see new colors and new plastic just a bit dif, change it up a little

[motofreak2772]

Originally posted by HBRIG014
i would like to see new colors and new plastic just a bit dif, change it up a little

Whoa, lets not let what happened to the YFZ happen to the TRX.
I dont want to be riding on some camal toe seat...

[HBRIG014]

yea big 10-4 on the seat.....lol

[RATPACK Z400]

At least someone agrees with me when it come to honda guy saying what they think of other brand on other forums but dont do it on there,s and me starting this ,cause i said honda,s aren,t improving there quads I get trashed by all of you for basic fact,s get real tc440 f@g started cursing me for no reason then everybody else jump,s on he,s side cause he ride,s honda so he must be in the right!Come on this retarded ! over someones fact based opion.

[k265r]

I wanted to apoligize if i have offended anyone. Personally i have never went to a forum page and bashed that manufacture. That is just trying to stir the #$it and thats not me. I work on all different brands of quads even polaris. Honda is the best quad to work on.

The question was will Honda answer? Yes, I dont know if it will be the answer for everyone. It will be an answer for some. My opinion is it will be efi possibly a steering stabilizer and the new design CRF 450 motor.

[RATPACK Z400]

I personally would love to see honda come out with a full mx/xc quad then it might get honda to jump in and support the sport and get this sport on cable every weekend like motocross, man that would be great but if honda dont jump aboard it,s not going to happen.For god sake i see lawnmower,s racing more than quad,s that a Damm shame.I dont come here to bash or flame or whatever you call it just express my opion on subjects that are posted i dont push unlessed im pushed to the limit and that kid pushed it with me but im not going to hold it over him he could be going though bad times like my self.I apoligize if I offended anybody!

[Tommy Warren]

I just emailed Dr.Phil. hes gonna come sort all this out! no worries!

Maybe I should have emailed Jerry springer;)

[vAnS_77]

KTM will be the only to release model specific types of quads. I'm not bashing honda, but ktm is known for some of the best products... Plus you forget honda makes other things besides atvs....Just keep that in mind. The hard times are most def affecting them also.