400EX...or Raptor? Need some advice.

[roody]

Hey everyone. I'm looking to buy a sport quad. I own a Brute Force but want to buy something lighter, more nimble and easier to play around on. I'm keeping the Brute and will be buying a sport quad to just have some fun with.

My two main choices are the Raptor 660 and 400EX. Obviously you guys are going to say buy a 400EX, but can you give me some solid reasons why the Honda is the better buy? It would be cheaper to buy, maintain, run, and I think it would be easier to modify (aftermarket parts are less expensive, no?). But the Raptor does have all that extra power stock. At this point I think the Raptor is my top choice, but the 400EX is a close second because of the affordability. I've looked into a lot of other quads (KFX400/Z400/DVX400, 450R, YFZ450, Banshee, etc.) but they're impossible to find in my price range so they're out of the question.

Any words of wisdom? The Raptor would definitely be more expensive and I would probably have to wait a little longer to find a good one (I want to buy something before the spring)...so would it be worth it to try and buy a 400EX? Thanks everyone.

[rcatvrider]

The raptor is alot more expensive to mod. It has dual carbs so everything you do to the intake/carb/exhaust is in 2's.

Never rode a raptor but have heard they're pretty good when setup right. I like my stock 400ex, it just needs a bit more power but that's easy to fix.

Pro's and cons

400EX:
Pros: Reliability/Chassis/Broad Powerband/Nimble
Cons: Horrible Front Suspension/Motor Leaves Some to Be Desired/Cold Starting

Raptor:
Pros: Power/Reliability (03-05)/Looks/Long-Travel
Cons: Reliability (01-02)/Top Heavy Chassis/Dual Carbs

Basically, if you're just looking for a reliable trail blazer and not to worried about having the fastest quad in the bunch, 400ex.

If you want some balls to the wall power and don't mind the tippy feeling when hittin turns hard, raptor.

The 400ex handles better but is slower, raptor is helluva lot faster but the chassis leaves some to be desired (suspension is alright but the ergonomics as a whole)

01's were notorious for grenading transmissions and 01 and 02 both had a lot of little BS problems.
400ex's were pretty solid from 99-08, no real issues (trans recall on 05's)

If I were STRICTLY riding trails or racing, I would choose the 400ex. But for a little more pit, open riding with an occasional trail system, the raptor.

I also noticed you have banshee on your list. You can find them just as cheap if not cheaper then the 400ex's and raptors. You can score mid 90's for for around 1500. Chassis also leaves some to be desired, but they rip like hell.

Originally posted by rcatvrider
The raptor is alot more expensive to mod. It has dual carbs so everything you do to the intake/carb/exhaust is in 2's.

Never rode a raptor but have heard they're pretty good when setup right. I like my stock 400ex, it just needs a bit more power but that's easy to fix.

They do make aftermarket single carbs, and the exhaust is not two, its just two exhaust ports just like the 400ex. Still a one side exhaust (unless you buy duals:devil:)

[rcatvrider]

Ya I know they make single exhausts but for speed freaks duals are usually the top priority on raptors.

dont have to have the biggest and baddest quad to be fast or keep up with others. the 400ex is a great quad really reliable and lower maintainance. stock power is decent but you will want to change it soon and throw on a few bolts ons. Stock front shocks are garbage. They are good for a slower, lighter, small jumper kind of person but hitting whoops fast or trying to air i out wihtout a good landing your going to bottom them out. The stock rear is a really good stock shock you just have to tune it. Raptors have more power but seem too top heavy to me and less sporty. They remind me more of a big truck trying to be a race car or a dodge sprinter lowered lol

[buck440]

i think the raptor would be nicer to have cause if you were into fixing it up you wouldn't feel like your polishing up a turd like the 400ex cause it dont have the removeable grabbar,not liquid cooled, all steel frame and subframe, outdated look, kinda bad suspension. i would just go with the raptor, i'de think you will be much happier but thats my view

[UNBROKEN]

all the 660r 01 to 04 some were hit or miss and lots were ticking time bombs the main prob with starter cluches / 1 way bearing, and still had the tranny problems in 05 yamaha changed some things so the 05 was the 660 best year if u want alot of torque and top speed then u may want the raptor but they are top heavy and tipsey lol , the ex are tough as hell great all around quad if u like both i would just get the Right one , find one thats in great shape and doesnt smoke or have any mechaniical defects on craigslist u can find great deals . especially the economey that were in right now people are letting there toys go cheap.. good luck

[roody]

Thanks for the responses, everyone.

What I'm looking for is a trail machine. I'd say it would be 95% trail riding and maybe 5% open drags...no pit riding, no stunting, not much else. It'll be a trail quad and nothing else. That's why I'm buying it...the Brute Force is a hassle on tight, technical trails (which I ride on most) and is better suited to places that are muddier (which I ride at once-in-a-while).

The 400EX sounds better for what I need. It might not be able to keep up with my Brute in a straight line but through the woods it will definitely be faster and more fun, which is exactly what I'm looking for. I knew that the Raptor has had the mechanical problems in '01-'02 and also that it is very top heavy, and those were two of the things that were steering me away from it. I really need a nimble, quick quad that I can blast down a trail with and not feel like I'm going to flip over when I'm coming out of a turn.

I'm still going to look for a Raptor, but I think the 400EX has taken over the top priority on my list. The Banshee isn't an option because I don't want to have to deal with maintaining a 2-stroke.

Thanks again, guys. Hopefully I'll be a regular poster on here within a short while.

[BlasterEaten250]

raptors have two carbs:confused: why?

[UNBROKEN]

how can the 400ex be better than a bruteforce in the technical stuff ???? :confused:

[roody]

Originally posted by UNBROKEN
how can the 400ex be better than a bruteforce in the technical stuff ???? :confused:

"Technical" as in medium-speed stuff where tire placement is key. The Brute is a great quad on the trail (smooth and comfortable) but it is huge and going through tighter areas always requires slow riding. With the ITP wheels/tires my quad is 48.5" wide. The trails where I ride (MA and PA) all have maximum widths of 50". The Brute is just too big for those trails. A sport quad is much more appropriate.

The Brute will be better in technical stuff if you mean mud and rock gardens. No doubt about that. I can put the Brute in 4WD Low (hell, I've only had to use 4WD a number of times because how much ground clearance and torque it has) and let it crawl over/through just about anything.

[powermadd400ex]

raptors are tippy as hell stock from what i heard.
but dmc pretty much covered it

[katch26]

cant go wrong either way as long as you get later than an 01 you should be good to go. I do agree with the dual carbs but like said can be upgraded to a single (mine got stolen before I had the chance). I disagree about it being more to upgrade the raptor in fact I would say HP to Dollar it would be cheaper. I would say honestly the two bikes are more similar than different. The have the same front to back weight distribution making them both wheelie happy small wheel based machines the big difference is the raptor has a couple inches in height. The Raptor is a bit tippy but its exagggerated a little bit, add a couple inches to the width and its a night a day difference.Remember the raptor was originally marketed as a 400 class machine with a 660cc motor.....I imagine that marketing genius no longer works there lol.
For a bigger guy Id take the raptor anyday but for an average sized guy probably the 400.......its win win either way.

sorry if this is hard to read I just kept adding more and more the more I thought about it.

[rcatvrider]

I also have a brute force and a 400ex and ride with people on brutes. With anything that involves tight turns or trees the 400 is much faster. On off-camber stuff the 400 feels alot better too, the brutes tend to have body roll and feel top heavy. In a straight line the brutes have more all around torque but in top speed they are only a couple mph different.

How tight of trails are we talking about roody?

The 400ex is a better trail bike because of the handling/chassis, but the raptor has ton's of torque down low in the trails, and slightly better suspension (shocks, not chassis)

If they're super tight the raptor is 2 inches narrower then the 400ex(probably also makes it feel that tippy) so it would slip between trees better.

But all in all if your doing 95% trails, then the 400ex may be your best bet.

With an exhaust, filter, sparks key, and front shocks, the 400ex makes a hell of a trail bike.

[UNBROKEN]

roody has the little bf650 , i know the 750 will beat a piped ex i know from experice :eek2: those 750s are quick even with 27 inch mudlites

[rcatvrider]

I have a 750 but ride with a 750 and 650, both have some nut but the 750s are insane in straight line. Got ours up to 52mph on about a 250ft straight out on the trails. Taking corners over 30 with them is a bit hair raising though.

[roody]

Yeah the Brute is a handful. Its straight-line performance is amazing...I never thought a 700-pound quad could accelerate that quickly and that fiercely. But it gets interesting in the turns...depending on how tight the turn is you really have to be careful. I was actually considering using the money that I'll probably put towards a sport quad into the Brute...I wanted to make it as sporty as possible (lowering kit, power upgrades, aftermarket handlebars, etc.). But I decided otherwise...I'm going to keep the Brute the way it is and spend that money on a sport quad. Better to have a sport quad and a true 4x4 than a 4x4 that thinks it's a sport quad.

The trails are fairly tight. Sometimes I have to make my own trail to fit through when I'm on the Brute, but that's fairly rare. Typical Northeast-US trails. Rocky, hilly, narrow in spots, off-camber, etc.

I'm leaning towards the 400EX because straight-line speed isn't my main priority...turns and nimbleness are. I'd rather have a less powerful quad that handles well than a very powerful quad that feels like it's going to tip over.

[rcatvrider]

I ride new england trails as well, CT, and the 400's are a good balance between speed and handling, if it ever feels tippy is is 100% due to the stock front shocks. Alot of people buy 450r or similar shocks for around $200, some alot less, and have good results.

[roody]

Just in case I can't find a 400EX or Raptor, any other suggestions for quad to look into? Banshee as an outside possibility? Z400s are too expensive, as are 450Rs and YFZ450s. Anything else?

[Wheelie]

Banshees handle like crap. The next best thing to an EX is a Z400.

[powermadd400ex]

yep, the Z is a great machine.
but my buddys has been in the shop numerous time for odd ball reasons.

[TheNewn]

Go with a 400EX or a Z400, preferably the Z. They are a bit more expensive but are well worth it in my opinion. ALL years have reverse, unlike the 400ex. Liquid cooling, new ones have better suspension.

I'd make the Z my top quad, followed closely by the 400EX.

But if you're looking for cheap fun, the 400ex is where its at. you can find so many deals on dirt cheap 400ex's, ESPECIALLY when you're willing to do a little fixing up.

[400ex07]

I wouldn't rule out the banshee if you cant find the other 2, they are not as bad as everyone says, if you get good front shocks. I love mine, and I only ride trails.

[CK1999.400ex]

i have a friend that i ride with they own 5 yes 5 raptors and they are always having trouble with them starter clutch or tranny problems i have a 1999 400ex and the starter clutch just went out a couple weeks ago and it was the original from 1999 i have rebuilt the motor but i wouldent of had to do that except i rode it into a pond and that was the end of that it smoked after that so i rebuilt the motor i ride very hard and fast most of the time and i havent had many problems out of mine but it seem that my friends raptors are in the shop atleast 2 times a year with problems that he dosent want to tackel im a mechanic and have been riding sence i was 9 years old (honda 110 atc ) and i have owned about 50 atv's sence i started riding im 37 now and owne 3 quads and an old dirtbike if you want a very reliable bike go with the 400ex less maintance and cheaper to rebuild motor wise and you can pick them up anyware for reasonable money i buy and sell quads and part out quads on ebay i have bought and sold raptor's (parted them out ) on ebay and every one i buy has had problems i have parted out 400ex also but most of them were in running order but needed maintance that was neglected over time over all the 400 would be the better choice for what you are wanting to do with it hope you get 1 soon

[Wheelie]

Originally posted by CK1999.400ex
i have a friend that i ride with they own 5 yes 5 raptors and they are always having trouble with them starter clutch or tranny problems i have a 1999 400ex and the starter clutch just went out a couple weeks ago and it was the original from 1999 i have rebuilt the motor but i wouldent of had to do that except i rode it into a pond and that was the end of that it smoked after that so i rebuilt the motor i ride very hard and fast most of the time and i havent had many problems out of mine but it seem that my friends raptors are in the shop atleast 2 times a year with problems that he dosent want to tackel im a mechanic and have been riding sence i was 9 years old (honda 110 atc ) and i have owned about 50 atv's sence i started riding im 37 now and owne 3 quads and an old dirtbike if you want a very reliable bike go with the 400ex less maintance and cheaper to rebuild motor wise and you can pick them up anyware for reasonable money i buy and sell quads and part out quads on ebay i have bought and sold raptor's (parted them out ) on ebay and every one i buy has had problems i have parted out 400ex also but most of them were in running order but needed maintance that was neglected over time over all the 400 would be the better choice for what you are wanting to do with it hope you get 1 soon

Huh? Punctuation please.

[roody]

Thanks again for the responses, everyone.

I'll keep the 400EX at the top of my list. I'm really looking for cheap fun. The z400s for sale around here are way too expensive.

[QuadManiac]

I own both (acutally 2 400ex's and 1 660). I wouldn't want to make the decision of which to keep... i love em both, for different reasons.

Once i widened the Raptor, it's handling became better than a stock 400ex.. BUT my 400 with A-arms handles better than the widended Raptor still.

The Raptor is a blast for it's incredible torque and wheelie power all the way through 3rd gear. It does require more maintenence and repairs though. I spend more time working on it than on both my 400ex's together, and they all get ridden about the same.

My piped and jetted 400 is no slouch on torque either, and it will keep up with most anything (not beat, but not get far behind either)... If i want to go out and have a relatively fast yet comfortable ride, this is the bike i take.

If i want to ride 'balls to the wall' and not worry as much about comfort, I take the Rappy out. It IS the bike if you want to feel that hard kick in the pants.

Love em both... real hard to decide what to do if i had to get rid of one or the other... Honestly, I think because of the incredible Honda reliability and it's more comfortable handling, i'd choose to keep the piped, jetted and a-armed 400ex. But I'd really miss the butt thumping torque of the Rappy and the fact that it's a bit bigger bike all around, and I'm a big guy - 6-4, 240.

Hope this adds a bit to your decision process.

[roody]

QuadManiac, I'm a (relatively) small dude...5'9", 160 pounds. Definitely sounds like the 400EX will have enough power for me. I really don't need an absolute ton of power...that's what the Brute is for. I need a combo of handling/stability/power that's perfect for the trails.

[rcatvrider]

I am also 160lb. Went riding today. I was really pushing it and I can't imagine having much more power than the 400 on trails around here.

The only thing I like about raptors is the plastics look better than the 400's I think. With the exception of the 08's. I think most people buy the raptors because they look awesome.

[roody]

Originally posted by SuicideMFNdoors
The only thing I like about raptors is the plastics look better than the 400's I think. With the exception of the 08's. I think most people buy the raptors because they look awesome.

They do indeed look awesome, but I'm not going to let looks decide something for me. I can always fix how a quad looks (plastics, hoods, etc.) but I think the 400EX looks just as good as the Raptor.

[scuzz]

Originally posted by rcatvrider
I am also 160lb. Went riding today. I was really pushing it and I can't imagine having much more power than the 400 on trails around here.

You usually couldn't see my plastic when I would go in my 400ex due to all the mud.


400EX all the way.