Exhaust and water question

[Toddmac]

I was having an issue with the 250R not firing and we got thru that part but I am still getting what appears to be dirty water in my engine. The issue was that I washed the quad and had forgotten that I had taken off the air filter and of course I got water in it. I'm wondering if I got too much in the exhaust too and it's contributing to my new past time.

Soooo what I have now is the bike will start, run for about 4 seconds and then water fouls the plug. I remove the plug, clean it and refire the bike...same thing happens over and over. The water on the plug looks kinda dirty, doesn't look like my antifreeze and my coolant level remains consistent.

Today I removed the carb and the reeds and there was water in front of the reeds..standing at the base area. I got that out, cleaned up the reeds and tried to have a look in the port with my flashlight...didn't see anything too obvious in the case..no fish swimming around, mermaids etc.
So I reassembled and changed the oil out....for the 3rd time. Ya know the oil doesn't even look that bad really.
I'm about to flip out...where can that water be hiding to allow it to immediately foul the plug?

My cleaning operation prob netted me some water in the exhaust too, could the engine pull water IN from the exhaust at any point in the combustion process?? I always assumed the exhaust would be under positive pressure during cranking.
I feel like a total douche nozzle at this stage....anyone got any good ideas on this? I just don't know what to try next cause for the life of me I can't see how this thing has more water. I wondered if I have blown a head gasket now...it was running fine when we stopped riding though.
Thanks for any ideas!

[C-LEIGH RACING]

Its either puddled down in the crankcase or out in the pipe & when you try to rev it up its blown on top of the piston & on to the plug.
If it is plain dirty water, by this times its probably done rusted some parts like the bearings, crank, anything steel or iron.
If it was antifreeze coolant, thats kinda oiley like & may have saved the engine just a bit but probably still did some damage.

For enough water, or if it was coolant, to get into the engine to foul the plug, if it was coolant the radiator would surly show as being low. It wouldnt maintain the same level each time you checked it,,,, unless,,, you had the catch tank in place & that was full first time you started the engine.
Neil

[Aceman]

Why don't you pull the pipe and have a look see?

If you see water in the pipe, I'd drain it, and reinstall. Then try to start it again.

If you don't see water in the pipe, I'd assume you got quite a bit pooled in the crankcase. Since you can't fill the case with fuel to get the water out, the only thing I can think of is your going to have to tip the quad up and literally try and pour it out. That'll mean tipping it nose down and then over even more till the the handlebars are getting close to the ground. That's chitty but I don't know what else to tell you. I tie down or rope hooked to your grab bar and swung over a truss or tree branch to help hold it would probably work well.

Or you could keep kick starting it over and over again trying to work the water out but that's even more of a PIA in my book.

[trx310R#24]

i had water in my pipe one time an it would do the same thing..

if you got it in the crank case you may run into more problems later on..

[Toddmac]

Hi gang,

Well I was talking with the father in law that we got the quad from and he didn't believe that it could be water, so I dried the plug and put it in, fired the motor....it started, it died. I pulled the plug and just took a lighter and attempted to ignite said mixture....Its plain ol water.
Tomorrow the exhaust is coming off for sure, My next question...don't laugh. Well, actually I would laugh if I read this and it wasn't me going thru it.
What if I pull the pipe and then attach some form of hose to my shop vac and go in thru the exhaust port and suck up anything it can get ahold of...? I could do this also thru the spark plug hole and I could pull the reeds..again and do it there, Or once I drain the oil I could put vacuum on the drain hole.

What do ya gus think of this? Am I nuts? yes, yes I am, but I don't want to damage the engine.

Again, thanks for all the help and I'm sorry to be such a pain in the @ss...just trying to learn the 2 stroke deal and I was learning at a slow pace but since I introduced said water...well, the learning pace has been stepped up a weee bit.

[trx310R#24]

Originally posted by Toddmac
Hi gang,

Well I was talking with the father in law that we got the quad from and he didn't believe that it could be water, so I dried the plug and put it in, fired the motor....it started, it died. I pulled the plug and just took a lighter and attempted to ignite said mixture....Its plain ol water.
Tomorrow the exhaust is coming off for sure, My next question...don't laugh. Well, actually I would laugh if I read this and it wasn't me going thru it.
What if I pull the pipe and then attach some form of hose to my shop vac and go in thru the exhaust port and suck up anything it can get ahold of...? I could do this also thru the spark plug hole and I could pull the reeds..again and do it there, Or once I drain the oil I could put vacuum on the drain hole.

What do ya gus think of this? Am I nuts? yes, yes I am, but I don't want to damage the engine.

Again, thanks for all the help and I'm sorry to be such a pain in the @ss...just trying to learn the 2 stroke deal and I was learning at a slow pace but since I introduced said water...well, the learning pace has been stepped up a weee bit.


yeah i guess it may work just take the plug out an keep turning the motor over with your hand.. lol but yeah i did kind of laugh but its so crazy it just might work

[Toddmac]

I'm still givin it some thought, not sure what all is inside the exhaust port but I think nothing...if so, I don't think I can hurt anything..gonna make sure I use something like fuel hose or something so as not to scratch anything if I get into something I shouldn't.
What I really wish is that I didn't have to yank the exhaust and there was a way to pressurize the motor and blow it out the exhaust, but any thing I can think of would blow pressure on the reeds too, and I sure don't want to play that game.
Hopefully I can get some more feedback on here about my idea and if no one has any reason why I shouldn't then I'm gonna have at it tomorrow night after work.

[Toddmac]

Here's the latest on my ordeal. I pulled the exhaust last night, had quite a bit of water in it...well watery slop that is. I got rid of it, cleaned the pipe etc and put her back togather today. Still have water to the plug but it did run a tad longer than it has in a week.

I called ATV Racing that built the engine and spoke with the builder. He said at this stage for me to pour a cap full of 2 stroke oil down the plug hole, leave the plug out and hold it at wide open throttle and tow it for about 150 yards give or take. He said that should pull the remaining water thru any intake area and also blow the rest thru the exhaust.

I'm gonna give that a try tomorrow, if that fails then honestly, I'm not sure what's gonna happen.LOL I may yank the head to see if she blew a gasket but I really doubt that's the issue. The water I'm seeing looks a hell of a lot like what I got out of the intake area. I don't know where it's hiding, and can't believe it can hide this good, but it is.

Needless to say, I got me a real nice plug for the exhaust and another plug to totally seal off the intake for my next washing experience. I'm about to toss some goldfish into the case and just use it for an aquarium.:blah:

[86 Quad R]

man dont pull the quad as suggested :eek2: i live on the creek and have plenty of experience with water contamination from an occassional drowning. take and stand the quad up on the rear grab bar and with the plug removed, spin the engine over a few times. afterwards, reinstall the plug and set the quad back down. start it as usual. once started try to fast idle it to burn/blow any remaining water out.

[Toddmac]

I have drained the exhaust by removing it, will standing it up on the grab bar still do anything? The water is in the case at this stage.
I actually did a little of the tow deal before I got back to the forum, I was very carefull and also put 2 stroke oil down the plug to make sure she lubes some.
It did help, it actually started and ran about 20 seconds this time and then water fouled the plug, now she is back to the same pattern......I dry the plug, it starts for 4 seconds, I cry a little, remove the plug and dry it, put it back, start it.....
What am I accomplishing by standing it up on the *** end...is it just to drain the exhaust or am I moving water somewhere? Not arguing at all, just want to understand what I am doing so the next time I have a good plan, although hopefully my plan is to never do this crap again!
I'm sure my towin deal did blow more stuff into the exhaust, standing it up would get rid of that for sure.
Thanks for the help! It's much appreciated!!

[g9901920]

i Read a while back when i was racing dirt bikes from an engine builder that if you drain the case then fill it with rubbing alcohol. then drain it again, that it will take out the water just like when you get water in your ear.
then of course fill it back up with oil then start it.

[Toddmac]

Well gang, I only had a certain amount of time today to play with the bike so I took the advice and stood it on the grab bar for a bit, cranked it over a few times and sat it back down...and then...are ya ready? I started it up! and it stayed running. No bad noises, nothing out of the ordinary so Heeeelllll Yaaaa!

Man that sucked and I am a loser for doing that to my new motor. I'm changing the oil here in a bit and then prob gonna run it a little tomorrow and change it again.

What an ordeal. Im not sure what went where as far as the water ...nothing really came out of the pipe when I stood it up, it did once we fired it and was able to crack the throttle a bit.

Thanks for all the help! Hopefully my stupidity does someone else some good in the future on here!!

[Aceman]

Originally posted by Toddmac
Man that sucked and I am a loser for doing that to my new motor. I'm changing the oil here in a bit and then prob gonna run it a little tomorrow and change it again.

Remember, this isn't a 4 stroke, there is no oil in the crankcase where the water was. Unless you just like changing the transmission oil.:confused:

[Toddmac]

LOL that has occured to me each time but everyone keeps telling me to change the oil again, I guess we are assuming I watered everything. The oil looks fine even from the beginning so that's prob the one place that didn't get watered.
Oil is cheap though, well right now anyway, and it doesn't take much.
I started it up again tonight and she cracks right off. Man I am happy! I was really getting worried since she put up such a fight. I am the new owner of a nice exhaust plug and I have a cover that fits over the intake super tight so if ya ever see me post anything like this again about water, please just come on over and punch me in the crotch cause I will be most deserving for sure.

[Aceman]

Originally posted by Toddmac
please just come on over and punch me in the crotch cause I will be most deserving for sure.

Yes......I'll have to punch you in the junk! Seriously.



;)

[86 Quad R]

glad ya got it going. :) being a die hard creek rider, i get water more than i care to admit. standing the R on its grab bar is a lil trick i learned early on. it allows any water that has settled in the crank case to flow out and by removing the spark plug, allows the residual water to be pumped out. this lil trick also works great in the event the engine gets filled with overflowing fuel caused by a faulty float needle. :cool:

[Toddmac]

It seems to work good...I had assumed it would drain the exhaust but I had already pulled it off and dumped it.
I'm glad I went ahead and did the stand up though cause it seems to have got the water to where it could fire and pump itself out the rest of the way!
Today I am puttin on some new Razrs all the way around. My tires were slicks on the front just about.
Thanks again for the help everyone!

[dunatic]

hopefully this works. if it does, it should explain a lil about the 2 stroke cycle. you can see how it works


http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-6/1193082/two-stroke_animation.gif

[Toddmac]

That's pretty cool! Dig the animation. It does help some for sure, it's taking me awhile to adjust to the idea that the fuel mixture is going into the case and then to the cylinder as opposed to everything else that I can actually work on..LOL
I got alot of help here and from some others so I am getting it. Today I am going out to plumb my intake manifold on my truck into my oil pan! LOL
I'm glad this site is around, it's nice to have 250r folks in one big heap so to speak. I got my new razrs mounted up yesterday so today I can get the rest of the stuff back on her and be ready to ride. I just put some nerfs on right before I discovered the water deal so I took those back off to make it easier to work on...get to put those back.
I'm heading out this morning to look at a warrior to add to the fleet so my boys can learn how to ride. I want em to master something a weee bit more user friendly than the 250r. I don't know about it being a good starter quad. LOL

[C-LEIGH RACING]

I think the bigger that demo is, slower it works.
That size demo, the pipe & porting dont match up because the returning waves not pushing all of the fresh charge back into the cylinder like its suppose to.
Lord help that intake, its more being blown back out through the carb than being taken in.
Neil