Snyder Pipe Vs Metrakit Pipe

[SMS]

Hey all here is the dyno test of the Snyder pipe vs Metra kit. We simply bolted the pipe on and ran, look at time stamps no other changes were made.

[SMS]

2

[SMS]

we changed nothing other than pipe.

[hotquads1]

Hi shawn, what engine ?

[woodsracer22]

I would like to see a dyno comparison Metrakit pipe& topend VS Snyder pipe & topend 70cc of course. I need a new topend and pipe for a 70 this would help.

[SMS]

70 cc liqued cooled engine that is tired and worn out. I will be testing a metra kit engine done by Tommy Ally and I will test both pipes on it friday.

[raidernut]

In my experience, a MK pipe is worthless, unless used with a MK cylinder, The MK cylinder is tuned for the MK pipe.

[jread14]

I have seen first hand that the metrakit pipe does very well on a stock Apex. I installed one on a friends 70 and 90 and saw a big improvement on both bikes. However, I love my Snyder pipe on my DRR 70.


[i]Originally posted by raidernut [/i
In my experience, a MK pipe is worthless, unless used with a MK cylinder, The MK cylinder is tuned for the MK pipe.

[MISSY'SDAD]

les at extreme mini quads sons 70 is mk topend and pipe and we are getting 14 hp on the dyno

[frank parvin]

sms pipe is the best pipe out there by far we made 13 -14 plus hp. on 2 diff. motors and after 35 overal wins and cra champinos and 2 top 5 finishs at nats. and 2 motor protest ($250.00 each) they finally figured that maybe sms pipe and a stock apex motor was pretty good.

[frank parvin]

shawn me and ries#50 want to thank you and your family for everything youve done for us this year couldnt done it with out you thanks .i also owe craigy g. 44x,floyd brick #53#54, kt,and the tates and everyone else. thanks

[Logan #34's Dad]

Hey Frank, Your forgeting the most important part, Ries can RIDE!!!

[frank parvin]

1st year rider . that bike is fast. thanks shawn (sms)

[zach R 7x]

FRANK, i don't think you are giving Ries enough credit , i think you could of put him on any of the top 3 or 4 top quads in the 90 class this year and he would of still won !!! congrats on a great season ! and good luck next year .


As far as the snyder pipe is concerned , i was pretty skeptical at first , so i borrowed one and put it on my new 08 stock apex and could not believe the change in horsepower! zach was making runs of about 100yds and it seemed to never run out of top end! and in wet grass and leaves it would pull frt tires off the ground for about ten ft.this is all with moderate clutching mods. so in my opinion this pipe is the real deal !

[SMS]

Guys thanks for the props but don't forget my steller porting haha! I think Riese is awsome, boy can ride. He kinda reminds me of me 20 years ago lol!!! watch me go I'm fast.

[frank parvin]

dont forget the porting,the complete sms eng that shawn biult 2 motors, the pipe testing we had 5 pipe on ries bike this year and the sms team pipe was the finished product (BIG HP),carb variator mods,clutch mods,ingion mods, sms frt.end,shocks ,frame work, sms line of credit haha. if it wasnt for sms taking a chance on a kid he didnt even know or if he could ride. the season we had would of never happened.that,s the type of guy the little short guy is.(good people]dont count the late nights on the dyno(bushie lite) working on pipes, clutching etc. and all the late night help from craigy g.44x,floyd brick 53 ,54,kt and the tates18. thanks to all for the good season. ( ries bike is for sale race ready)

[frank parvin]

thanks good luck to you next season also. Congrats on yours and zachs season also he ran awsome and good luck with the new bike i have alot of extra parts if you need anything let me know (that bike would look good with orange plastic)

[SMS]

Here is the dyno test from today it is a metra kit top end with a metra kit pipe vs snyder pipe the snyder pipe made a 44% increase just bolting on no tuning to the snyder pipe.

[SMS]

hp

[SMS]

torque

[frank parvin]

yeee haa bushie lite time . told them guys all year the magic was in the pipe and they didnt believe me so they tore use down ($250.00) and they found 89.1 (94.9 legal) sounds like pipe works great (my pipe is for sale $850.00 haha) sms aka short guy good work keep it up...

[ugliest6868]

hey shawn, there are probably some people readin this and checkin out your dyno charts and they know they can get more hp than what your showin. does this have anything to do with your roller resistance on your dyno?

[SMS]

Rear wheel hp vs crank hp is way different on cvt for sure. You are totally right when a bike is direct drive with a chain we subtract 20% from crank hp "blaster" for instance. I really do not know what to subtract from a cvt but I would guess 35%. When you have a crank dyno that is all you measure when you have a rear wheel dyno it has to go thru a belt, clutch, transmission, chain and sproket then you have to turn a rear rotating assembly wheels, tires, sproket hubs. I would guess around 30lbs it takes power to move this unlike a crank dyno. This test was me just controlling dyno I did not do anything other than operate dyno. The customer was here and changed the pipe him self and did everything himself. From my stand point the metra kit was tuned way better it did not smoke much at all with the snyder pipe it was loading up really bad. The pipe just works, I about craped when I seen how well it worked and so did the customer. I hope he will post on here as well since he is a member.

[frank parvin]

this test was the real deal i was there and seen it happen. every quad it been on its helped big time except a 50cc dosnt help a 50 ( this is all bolt on and go so i,m sure theres some tuning that could be done)

[DAVYS DAD]

maybe RB and i will get this pipe your dyno runs look great.
when we bolted our mk top end and pipe on we got 9.91rwhp sae
with a stock 50 clutch,rollers,and spring and a 21m okoand we did no jetting we also put on a pvl.44%is a big gain in hp so if the SMS pipedoes that I WANT ONE its a easy gain, and we all know how hard it is to gain hp on a 70. it looks to me that with a SMS PIPE you gain 3 horse, that is the biggest gain i have seen from just a pipe on a 70. thanks for the info.
LATER

DAVY WOODBURY#72
MICHIGAN 50 limited champ 07 and 08

NICK WOODBURY#22 up and comming

BIG SHOT OUT TO RB-RACING FOR ALL THE WORK

[drt18]

I THINK SMS SAID IT ALL.IT IS MY QUAD WE ARE TALKING ABOUT AND I WAS BLOWN AWAY.FROM A LIFE OF BLOWING MONEY ON HARLEYS AND SNOWMOBILES TRYING TO BEAT THE NEXT GUY I HAVE LOST ALOT OF MONEY.PEOPLE WILL SELL U A BUNCH OF CRAP WE HAVE ALL BEEN THERE.I DONT CARE HOW MUCH THE PRODUCT IS IF IT WORKS DOLLAR COMPARED TO GAIN WORTH EVERY PENNY. PROOF IS IN THE PUDDIN .TIM I STOLE YOUR LINE LOL.

[machwon]

Anyone have one of these SMS pipes we could try out? I'd love to try it out.

I wonder if the MK kit was spec'd out the same as the sms cylinder and head? Depending on how the MK was assembled (they send too many gaskets) it could be a loser.

As ugliest6868 said, I'm more worried about a 14 hp 70 that someone mentioned. Do they have a dyno sheet? 10 HP and 5 ft-lbs of torque seem to be a pretty good goal on a 70 and yes the MK combo can do it.... I've also heard that MK has a different version that could be even better yet as I've been told we have the lesser version.

[SMS]

This was not my engine the customer bought this engine it was a 2008 cra 70 champion engine that was ported by well known engine builder and it was not me. I had nothing to do with it other than running the dyno. Thats what drt18 was trying to convay it was his bike his engine and his pipes. I'm just giving you guys the info to be nice, I'm sure no matter what I say, do or post there are sceptics. Can't make every one happy all the time!

[zach R 7x]

DRT18, i don't care what the dyno tests say. i still think you should run the mk pipe , it looked so cool sticking out the side of your quad!!!! sounds like that dual spark plug worked out real good ! i am curious what what hp that second plug added!lol we should keep that little secret in house !lol

[machwon]

Originally posted by SMS
This was not my engine the customer bought this engine it was a 2008 cra 70 champion engine that was ported by well known engine builder and it was not me. I had nothing to do with it other than running the dyno. Thats what drt18 was trying to convay it was his bike his engine and his pipes. I'm just giving you guys the info to be nice, I'm sure no matter what I say, do or post there are sceptics. Can't make every one happy all the time!

SMS, I must have misread the thread as I thought it was your porting. Don't take my post wrong, I wasn't being critical of your work, I think your pipe looks pretty dam good and I would like to try one out as well. However, in my opinion I don't think the MK was given its best shot to perform. MK's are not the best cylinder to just bolt on without checking the head set up.

Thanks for posting up the runs.

[drt18]

THE MK KIT I HAVE IS THE ONE MADE FOR QUADS. OTHERS ARE WORKING WITH THE MK SCOOTER KIT WITH MORE RPM AND ARE GETTING GOOD RESULTS.BUT THE KID HAS TO KEEP THE RPM UP TO BENEFIT.

[SMS]

I do not promote the mk parts at all I like the bidlow! Thats where it is at, my opinion. It has Trapzoid bridge exhuast ports and the port timing comes correct and really does not need port work done. It is a far better buy for the average consumer.

[DAVYS DAD]

wow sounds like some folks are taking RB'S POST THE WRONG WAY. RB is a stand up guy and will help anyone he is a outstanding engine builder and also has a dyno,he has helped me win two state championships and all but two holeshots out of
44 motos thats pretty dag-gone good dont you think? RB KNOWS ABOUT THE ALL NIGHTERS AND LONG HOURS IT TAKES TO WIN
HE'S ALWAYS WILLING TO HELP. HE'S DONE AT LEAST 250 DYNO
RUNS ON MY SONS LIMITED 50 WE TRIED EVERY COMBO TO GAIN LEGAL HP. LOTS OF PEOPLE WANTED TO PROTEST US BUT DID NOT. WE GOT BOTH HOLE SHOTS AT BED BUD in the 50 limited
class and a couple guys were crying saying we cut the track,
one guy was crying saying I cost him the championship.
IF THATS NOT PUDDIN PROOF WHAT IS. i KNOW RB will have my 70 ready to rock in alabama and we will make a good showing
i dont think we will win my son just turned 7 and has little time on the big track but we will be running good sms pipe or not!
i dont want to step on any toes but i do want my kids quad to be fast!!!! I REALLY COULD USE AN EXTRA 3 HORSE LOL ROCK ON RB
ROCK ON.

DAVY WOODBURY#72
MICHIGAN LIMITED 50 CHAMP 07 AND 08

NICK WOODBURY#22 UP AND COMMING

BIG SHOT OUT TO RB-RACING U DA MAN

[frank parvin]

your right proof is in the puddin and sms bluit my son A FIRST YEAR RIDER a apex 90 that was a test mule for the sms pipe and he won 2008 cra championship 35 over all wins if he finished he won .2 atva nats top 5 at both against rider thats race at that level for years and dt18 cra championship 32 over all wins in THE 50 CLASS and i would say the OHIO state champ he also went to hp nats and ran in 50 class against the cobra,s because he had a pipe on his 50 and ran very well he also is moving to the 70 class that,s the bike the testing the m/k, pipe s and motor on . he young all so but it looks like he handles the power fine.maybe we get to see him and your son battle next year and see just how the sms pipe works .i,m sure your guy is a good bike bliuder and nobody said he wasnt anyone that has the time to figure these little bikes out my hats off to like your guy and mine(sms) and many other good job to all bliuder how put all that time in to make all our little guys faster and safer let just race and have ALOT OF FUN WATCHING THEM GROW UP .thank for everything SNYDER MOTOR SPORTS

[DAVYS DAD]

ok guys if i came off the wrong way i appologize .
its just hard for me to believe that just a single pipe can really add 3 hp to a 70. I guess I'm skepticle, I'm not knocking SMS in any way and I really want to try the pipe. 3 hp is hard to find. I don't know how many Nationals we'll make but we'll be in Alabama for sure. Again sorry for any confusion.
LATER

DAVY WOODBURY#72
MICHIGAN 50 LIMITED CHAMP 07 AND 08

NICK WOODBURY#22 PU AND COMMING

BIG THANKS TO RB-RACING FOR PUTTING UP WITH ME!!!!

[frank parvin]

no proplem i,m just saying try the pipe you will be very happy and much faster. hope to hang out at a national some day and watch all the kids have fun thanks # 50 ries dad

[Logan #34's Dad]

Hey Shawn, This is Rocky, Logan's dad. We can shut everyone up on here, If you agree to run my engine on the dyno then change pipes and run it again. Apples to Apples. My engine won ONE National Moto (only one to beat Christian when he was on his game) and barring crashes and my stupid clutch set ups, was a front runner. I'll stand there and watch to eliminate the thinking that you may be fudging numbers. Everyone that knows me knows I don't pull any punches, I call it like it is like me or not. I think the reason for the hesitation is when THE builder of a product post results it could easily be construed that he is just trying to sell a product. We all have shelves of "the greatest part we had to have" that turned out not to be what is was said to do. Let me know and I'll come up. Then we can talk about the A-arm thing too. ;)

[zach R 7x]

great idea Rocky!! we picked up our new pipe fri. took zach to ramjams sun. and wow did he look fast !he was the only 90 there, so i am going on my opinion and some big quad riders that were watching . he was having a blast until we started having issues with the chain popping off. was hoping to get it jetted in and adjust clutches a little bit more but chain finally got the best of me ! like i said before on this post that i was pretty sceptical about this pipe also , but i was lucky and was able to borrow one and test it first . my opinion on the pipe ,[for what it is worth] if you can take a stock motor and buy this pipe and be competitive with out spending aton of money on the rest of motor it is the first thing i would buy . zach's motor is basically stock , and more than likely will stay the same all year long and i think that with this pipe he will be very competitive. i think we are going back to ramjams next sunday with some other friends w/ 90's so i will get to see how fast it really is. can't wait till summit!

[SMS]

Thanks for everyones support it means alot to me.

[SMS]

I would be more than happy to have Rocky or anyone else come to test the pipe. I'm sold out at this point and have one proto type pipe here that can no be sold but we can use to test. I will have 10 pipes ready to ship before christmas and 3 are sold. I will be making more after christmas. First come first serve at this point. I would like to thank everyone who has tried the pipe and has posted. I think RB will love the pipe, I know where he is coming from I have been racing snce I was 14 and I'm now 31. It somtimes is hard to believe all the bs. Every once in a while there is somthing amazing that changes everyone. I have a arms, swing arms , stabilizers, ball joints that I have designed and I have never had one product that was like wow this works that good. Thank You everone

[jread14]

Shawn,

We put your pipe to the test this weekend and all I can say is WOW! My son Triston took a stock 70 Drr motor with simple clutch mods and your pipe, and went out and got 4th in the holeshot, and a 2nd overall . The impressive thing about it was he was racing in the 90 class againt 7 apex 90´s.

So, let the skeptics be skeptics, and you keep your head up... Thanks for all your hard work in creating such a great pipe.

Jason Read
Proud father of Triston Read #111

[mcwilly]

Originally posted by jread14
Shawn,

We put your pipe to the test this weekend and all I can say is WOW! My son Triston took a stock 70 Drr motor with simple clutch mods and your pipe, and went out and got 4th in the holeshot, and a 2nd overall . The impressive thing about it was he was racing in the 90 class againt 7 apex 90´s.

So, let the skeptics be skeptics, and you keep your head up... Thanks for all your hard work in creating such a great pipe.

Jason Read
Proud father of Triston Read #111

I was there and saw it myself. Triston was FLYING! The pipe sounds good too. :D
If rules allowed us to have one, we'd have one for sure.

[bulldogfallon]

We just took 5 more :)

Told you guys it worked, :) :) :) but I have heard the same thing about other pipes and it not be true, but it is good to see others getting the same results.


We are running this pipe on high rpm kits and still getting bottom end power...not MK quad cylinders, but the higher rpm scooter cylinder.

[jread14]

Originally posted by bulldogfallon
We just took 5 more :)

Told you guys it worked, :) :) :) but I have heard the same thing about other pipes and it not be true, but it is good to see others getting the same results.


We are running this pipe on high rpm kits and still getting bottom end power...not MK quad cylinders, but the higher rpm scooter cylinder.

Gary,

Thanks for talking me out of Metrakit pipe and into the SMS pipe. Your input means alot to me and your brutal honesty is why I know I can trust what you say... As always you were on top of things on this deal and I appreciate all you do for Triston and I.

Ryan,

Thanks for the compliments.

[SMS]

Thats why we all like Gary! Thanks you Gary for believing in my pipe and trying it!

[bulldogfallon]

Thought you liked me for my rugged handsome looks and charming personality? :blah:

[SMS]

only your wife does that. HAhA

[jread14]

Originally posted by SMS
only your wife does that. HAhA

Ill second that... Much nicer than I came up with. HAHA...

[bulldogfallon]

She doesn't either......
:devil:

[jread14]

That is too funny. I think you and I are in the same boat.

[kenjolly]

Do they come with a bracket for the middle portion of the pipe. mine didnt.

OOO ya they run real nice too.

[SMS]

Ya I it should have 1 bracket must of forgotten. Please pm with your shipping info and I will get you a few brackets out asap. Sorry for the mistake or you can call 866-345-5443 I am also working on a coupler to seal the silencer to the Pipe. When I get them I will also send you coupler also.
Thanks Shawn

[bignasty]

Weve been working with the SMS team for a while and I too stand beside Shawn's work. My son has been riding for about 6 months and the confidence he has with his bike is emormous! Shout to you Shawn!!! BN:) :) :)

[JAG Motosports]

Ya I it should have 1 bracket must of forgotten. Please pm with your shipping info and I will get you a few brackets out asap. Sorry for the mistake or you can call 866-345-5443 I am also working on a coupler to seal the silencer to the Pipe. When I get them I will also send you coupler also.



Need one too!:D Sent you a PM. Nice Pipe :) :)

[frank parvin]

got sms pipe for sale

[frank parvin]

$ 3,800.00 THE ONLY THING IS THAT IT HAS THE TEAM SMS CHAMPIONSHIP WINNG APEX 90 ATACHT TO IT, if the pipes that good just think how good this quad is.( its all sms.) thanks guys

[frank parvin]

welcome to sms. dosnt i of your buddys in ind. need a good qaud?? pass the word around thanks

[ugliest6868]

shawn, i think you misunderstood the question,what i was wondering is if your dyno is set up for big quads with 500lb rollors or resistance whatever it is, and you throw a mini on there that only weighs 225lb with a 75lb rider =300lbs. arent you getting a false reading. your dyno charts are actually showin low numbers because you have a mini fightin 500lbs when its only ever gonna see 300lbs. just wonderin thanks. hey Parvin isnt it past your bed time

[frank parvin]

nite nite going to bed

[dblacks]

Dyno readings can be very misleading as each dyno can be set up different and all the other conditions that can be different.

who cares what the dyno reading is, a dyno is only a tool to get it close to where it needs to be or to see what possibly could be made better.

Proof is in the peformance on the track and both SMS and MK have been proven on the track for different people and different setups.

[SMS]

I agree with D black thanks

[frank parvin]

i,m coming down you need anything like(atable and some new sleves,and some coke and some paint ) let met ask can i come down no kids??

[SMS]

sure come on down

[frank parvin]

sorry shawn i didnt now i was bugging you ??????????? dont kere i,m coming anyhow seeya in 1/2 hr.

[SMS]

thanks

[drt18]

SNYDERS DYNO IS WITH 500 LBS ROLLERS.DO SOME DYNO WITH 250LBS ROLLERS? SOME PEOPLE CLAIM 14 OR 15 HP WERE IS THIS NUMBER COMING FROM? CURIOUS.

[bradley300]

the actual numbers dont mean much, as long as the before and after runs are done on the same machine, the gain is still acurrate and thats what is really important. his dyno could say a stock 70 has 20 horse and 30 built, and the numbers still wont matter, only that 10 horsepower difference would really mean anything so as long as you pay attention to the gain, it would still be alright.

last time I was at shawns we were doing some runs with a mph x time axis graph and it also worked well. with the minis the holeshot is real important and the speed graphs were really helpful at seeing not only what made power, but kore importantly what made speed (power to the ground) since really thats the whole point of building a motor anyway

[bradley300]

also, SMS dynos quite a few 450's also, so he would have to switch rollers alot if he had the 250's. like i was expalining with the gain, it makes more sense to just look at that than switch rolloers all the time just to see a number that doesnt really mean much anyway

[drt18]

i guess my question is do mini builders dyno with lighter rollers.

[frank parvin]

lighter roller more hp ?? heaver rollers less hp.??? THAN I GUESS SMS IS MAKIING GOOD POWER FOR USING HEAVIER ROLLERS. GOOD JOB SHAWN.

[bradley300]

Originally posted by drt18
i guess my question is do mini builders dyno with lighter rollers.

i doubt it, unless minis is all they work on

[bradley300]

Originally posted by frank parvin
lighter roller more hp ?? heaver rollers less hp.??? THAN I GUESS SMS IS MAKIING GOOD POWER FOR USING HEAVIER ROLLERS. GOOD JOB SHAWN.

i dont know for sure, but that would make sense. you would lose more power between the crank and the wheels, b/c you are using more power to turn the heavier rollers

[bradley300]

ive been helping out shawn for 4 or 5 years now- him getting some respect makes me look like a genius!:D

[guy310]

The weight of the rollers in the dyno should not matter. Dynojet dyno gives SAE corrected HP numbers only so that comparisons are easily made. Dynojet is the most common dyno in cycle/atv applications.

[ugliest6868]

thanks for helpin me out everyone, i still asked the question wrong. i just wanted to know is if somone else is gettin 14 hp and shawn is "ONLY" gettin 10 why do his bikes pull harder? are they usin a dyno with 250lb rollers or whatever? if i understand the persentage of hp is what your checkin out and as long as you keep gainin keep goin,like bradley said in a way. i just dont want people out there bein misled and spendin alot of hard earned dollars with somone claimin to get more hp when all they have to do is go to the real deal. thanks shawn

[bradley300]

Originally posted by ugliest6868
thanks for helpin me out everyone, i still asked the question wrong. i just wanted to know is if somone else is gettin 14 hp and shawn is "ONLY" gettin 10 why do his bikes pull harder?

The short answer, is there dyno could be set up a little different.here is the best explanation i can give...

there can be big differences in dyno runs from day to day (weather effecting jetting, which affects power), along with calibrations that can need re-done, using slicks vs. knobbie tires while dynoing, roller weight... This makes different dynos put out different numbers without being "wrong" for putting out big numbers. In fact, SMS's dyno can also be "wrong" by giving out low numbers. This is why the gain, and using the same dyno for before and after runs is so important.

Anytime someone wants to talk numbers, ask for a before and after dyno sheet of thier work, on the same dyno. thats as close as you can get to reliable info. Dont get fooled by high peak hp claims if you dont know what that same dyno gave the same quad before the work.

Say a motor builder says thier engine kit gives a DRR 90 30 hp, sounds great right? but what if that same quad on the same dyno was putting out 29 horse when it was stock? now his motor doesnt sound so great does it? Because now you are seeing not just an empty number, but a tru result of the work done. Thats why I keep talking about the GAIN rather than the actual advertised peak horsepower number

[guy310]

Dynojet dynos are a great tool because they give corrected HP numbers not actual. This ensures an apples to apples comparison. Like bradley300 said, temp, humidity and other environmental factors can affect the output, but the Winpep software corrects for those aspects so that you can compare day to day without trying to give an unscientific judgement about why there might be a difference.

[SMS]

I agree with all the above. I built my first chassis dyno about 5 years ago. I got tired of having inconsistant runs and tired of not being remotely close to other dynos. Thats when I went out and spent some cash on the real deal a dyno jet. I feel dyno jet is on top of the dyno industry. From my stand point their is not much else I can do. I talked to Dyno Jet today and they said their is no way to calibrate a dyno jet dyno. We need to look at conditions of others to mine. I need to get some dyno runs from another company that has a Dyno Jet and can show us what they are getting. I will try to schedule a appointment on a dyno jet. I do know that if the weather station stackj is not working properly it will be off from others. That is why they give a corection factor. Also the engine may run better in different temp and conditions.

[machwon]

SMS, bring your pipe to my shop and you can compare on my dyno. I know I've been called a critic earlier in this post but I go under RB Racing and yes we also have a dynojet dyno. I also have MK pipe and cylinder dyno runs I can post up as proof. PM or e-mail me if you want my contact info.

I agree only dynojet can change the settings as my software is locked on the drum mass inputs. Depending on who you talk too, other message boards would be highly critical of a dynojet as reading too high as compared to Superflo and others. I'm also assuming you have an inertia version like I do. Yes, the correction factors bring the temperature, humidity to an apples to apples comparision for each run. As I've mentioned in the past my DRX runs are almost identical to the results found on other dynojets.

[guy310]

machwon, what you said is why Dynojets are the best for comparability. Everything is locked as far as drum mass, etc. because that stuff never changes. Anybody that says the dyno needs to be calibrated doesn't know what they are talking about. If 10 engine builders have a Dynojet and 1 builder has a Superflow, they can't be compared. Only percentage of difference from before and after mods. If you have an engine builder you trust, thats who you go with regardless of what you put out on the dyno. 99% of kids out there, contrary to what their parents might think, would not win the national championship no matter who was building their engine. Be realistic with your expectations and you won't be disappointed.

[SMS]

Please pm me your location and I will arange to possible go there and dyno or send you a pipe to test and return when your done. I need to see how far away you are, as my health is not very good. I personal feel I have done enough testing with this pipe to last my life time and have sent out enough pipes and have had all good feedback.

[frank parvin]

shawn just sell the pipe to how ever wants to buy it the proof is in puddin you shouldnt have to prove your self to every body. theres enough pipes out there now either buy one or follow some with one thanks for EVERY THING shawn.

[DAVYS DAD]

good goly parvin ligthen up we just wanted to try it out.

MERRY X-MAS EVERYONE:D

[frank parvin]

just buy one it dose works.

[SMS]

I just wanted let you know that their will be more test coming soon and replies from recent buyers.

[Rayzer]

Have you had any dyno runs with a stock 70 L/C head and pipe vs snyder pipe yet? I have already decided that the pipe will be the next purchase but how much gain is it over stock and how well will it compare to the MK set up? Just trying to decide on what to do for the up comming season to keep him competitive.

I know you have to have the motors available before you can dyno them but didn't know if you have done the campairason yet.

Ray

[DAVYS DAD]

sms any testing yet just wondered.

later

[SMS]

Hi all we tested this weekend a guy brought 2 well tuned machines with a new drr power pros pipes and work done to the engines we gained 5-7 mph but not alot on peak hp, but we did not clutch or jet much we just wanted to see the advatage so we did not waste time. It works very well on any 70 or 90 and it seems to me that it works even better on a bidlow top end or metra kit top end. Most pipes out make power to 8k-10k rpmmine makes good power from 9200-1200 and will carry nice to 14k rpm just depending on set ups.
merry christmas

[SMS]

We should get some more feedback this week I shipped 5 pipes out today!!!!

[neveready]

Well Shawn,!!!

I was waiting for your reply before mine.....

These were my bikes:D (thanks for the compliments on my tuning). And... I must say I was pretty impressed by the Snyder Pipe!!! As Shawn said the wasn't any real gain in HP over what we already had, but...MAN!!! I have never had my bikes rev that far:eek2: And without any loss in bottom power or torque!!! I was a little nervous to be honest when we were over 14k:eek: And as shawn said we never tuned for his pipe, just run, shut down, cool down, pipe change then run again. Strictly just simple, heads up comparison dyno. We very well could have made more had we tuned for the Snyder pipe. I just didn't want to change everything then change back, then change again when I get my new pipes. ;)

So my take is it really depends on what level of racing or riding you are looking for?? The pipes we have now make good torque,good peak HP, and as Shawn said run well. But, if you want the best of all worlds and MAXIMUM range of power.....Well... I think the Snyder pipe does just that!!

Not to mention the crew at Snyder is a GREAT bunch to work with!!! I appreciate everything guys, and look forward to seeing you again soon!!!

Thanks Again,
Kevin

[JAG Motosports]

Originally posted by SMS
Hi all we tested this weekend a guy brought 2 well tuned machines with a new drr power pros pipes and work done to the engines we gained 5-7 mph but not alot on peak hp, but we did not clutch or jet much we just wanted to see the advatage so we did not waste time. It works very well on any 70 or 90 and it seems to me that it works even better on a bidlow top end or metra kit top end. Most pipes out make power to 8k-10k rpmmine makes good power from 9200-1200 and will carry nice to 14k rpm just depending on set ups.
merry christmas

I have both these pipes on differant quads and think they are both real good pipes:) I would love to see the charts from the dyno. Could you please post them? Also what cylinders were on the test bikes? Thank You

[rmuscle]

just did rebuild on my 70 . put mk kit gary shipped out new snyder pipe , should be here tomorrow. just wondering where a good starting point is for tunning cvt (rollers, sprinc, ect.) with this pipe
thanks ron

[neveready]

Well as I have said many,many times in here..... You are best to stick with one dealer when it comes to this. They know your total package and will have the best ideas for tuning.

Also everyone has a different package or combo(belt,rollers,springs) that they like or reccomend. You can get several variations, which can lead you to a road of hair pulling when dealing with several people on the same CVT.

I do know that your combo is RPM hungry.

[frank parvin]

there goes your sale right out the window shawn (sms) lol. set of rollers $25 lol . support your soponser they gota eat too lol. just kidden GUYS lol.

[bignasty]

lol to shawn and the crew first of all!! He helped us not even a year into the racing scene and has put my boy's bike at its best we could asked for at the elevation we race at. All an engine buider or bike buider do is give you recomendations that have worked in their experience. It is the owners to do the R and D for their track condiotions, and whether conditions as well as elevation changes. We run close to 6000 ft elevation guys. It is up to us to go from here and do some labor to figure out what the bike likes with the rider and etc etc etc... Shawn, we believe in what you have done for us and stand behind your R and D Thanks !!!!

[#404's Dad]

Guys, If you did not tune each pipe in on the dyno to it's maximum potential then this is not a real apples to apples comparison, Very rarely will you have two completely different pipes require the exact same jetting.

I am not at all bashing, really I am not, I am just pointing out what I have learned in the countless hours of testing I have done on my dyno and several friends have seen on theirs, when ever testing parts on the dyno whether it be Carburetors, Intakes, Clutching, Pipes, Air Filters or whatever to get real actual true apples to apples results you must tune each change to its potential, big bikes and small bikes a like especially when you are dealing with parts that control the air IN (Intake/Crabs) to the motor and Out (Exhaust) of the motor.


Just my two cents

[SMS]

I know what you are saying, here is the quick version of what goes down here. Just for instantance you bring your bike here and it tuned very well. We make three passes put our pipe on make three passes. If the customers bike is not jetted we will fix it before we move on. The jetting is off when you change the pipe and you can tell it is very clear. The point it we are still making more power than the way it came in so we stop there, just not to waste any more time on testing at this point. When we first started testing the pipe we would tune to each pipe, but that was many test ago and about a year ago. So as you can imagine we have tested every combo that we could and the results are still the same. The pipe works great on 70 and 90 it will keep your low end power and make alot more from mid to top. I hope this explains the testing more clear. If you have any further questions let me know.

[machwon]

#8trx450R, check out the MK pipe and cylinder runs under Davy's MK 70 build. It pulls 10 HP long and strong, not just for a short time. I know what your saying about getting all the components to line up. I think those runs clutched out between 10,300 and 10,800. Any given pipe will have a sweet spot for power, the porting and clutch work should compliment it like you said. Given a CVT set up I don't like seeing my rpms vary more than 5-700 rpm once it gets rolling. Pipes tend to fall off alot when that far out of range.

[SMS]

ya I agree their is alot in the clutches if you can get them tuned proper. It is not always the easiest to do. I have found certain variators help make this easier.

[SMS]

FYI get your orders in now for the sms revv pipe if you would like to have them before the season starts.

[machwon]

SMS, at what rpm range does you pipe make peak power?

[machwon]

Originally posted by SMS
Hi all we tested this weekend a guy brought 2 well tuned machines with a new drr power pros pipes and work done to the engines we gained 5-7 mph but not alot on peak hp, but we did not clutch or jet much we just wanted to see the advatage so we did not waste time. It works very well on any 70 or 90 and it seems to me that it works even better on a bidlow top end or metra kit top end. Most pipes out make power to 8k-10k rpmmine makes good power from 9200-1200 and will carry nice to 14k rpm just depending on set ups.
merry christmas

So would I want to clutch for 9200-12000 or should I shoot for 14k?

[hotquads1]

machwon, i understand what your asking and I think once Shawn gets a chance to post the dyno runs it will answer your question. I tune and clutch by rpm also and you want to hit the range in the sweet spot of the pipe, I just got a revy pipe here at the shop to test , looks good. I am waiting to see dyno's also but my guess is the peak is mid 10k range(depending on port timing) just by looking at pipe design.
marc

[SMS]

It all depends on your engine and set up, every engine is ported different than mine but here is what I do. I set the clutching to shift at 9,500rpm and I try to keep it at 9500-10,050 as my target and then the snyder revv pipe will continues to make good power to 14k rpm.

[bulldogfallon]

If we don't head out to our race this weekend we will try to put the Power Pro and Snyder pipe on our CVT crank dyno.

This will keep any CVT variance out of the results.

If we do go to the race it will be the following week.

I'll post the results when we get them.

[SMS]

seet let me know if you get a chance to do this

[hotquads1]

Hi Shawn,
on the well tuned bike where was the peak power , what rpm did peak HP occur? I would like to see those dyno sheets if you get a chance to post them.
thanks,marc

[SMS]

ok maybe few days been working on taxes for last few weeks I want to get done. lol

[#404's Dad]

Originally posted by bulldogfallon
If we don't head out to our race this weekend we will try to put the Power Pro and Snyder pipe on our CVT crank dyno.

This will keep any CVT variance out of the results.

If we do go to the race it will be the following week.

I'll post the results when we get them.

Gary, be sure and tune each pipe in for accurate results, I myself am anxious to see what that lil booger (cvt dyno) does!!

[#404's Dad]

Originally posted by SMS
I know what you are saying, here is the quick version of what goes down here. Just for instantance you bring your bike here and it tuned very well. We make three passes put our pipe on make three passes. If the customers bike is not jetted we will fix it before we move on. The jetting is off when you change the pipe and you can tell it is very clear. The point it we are still making more power than the way it came in so we stop there, just not to waste any more time on testing at this point. When we first started testing the pipe we would tune to each pipe, but that was many test ago and about a year ago. So as you can imagine we have tested every combo that we could and the results are still the same. The pipe works great on 70 and 90 it will keep your low end power and make alot more from mid to top. I hope this explains the testing more clear. If you have any further questions let me know.

Shawn, what did the AFR curves look like on those pulls, can you post up the graph again with the AFR curves?

Thanks, Corey

[marsrace2]

Gary, did you ever get to do the test of the Power-pro pipe VS the Snyder pipe?

[QuadJunkies]

Can you tell me the DB on the pipe??
I hope that wasnt mentioned already and I missed it .:o :p

[zach R 7x]

can not say enough about this pipe !
the 1st and 2nd place riders both were using sms pipes . zachs quad was just rippin this weekend ! three days three holeshots! 2 wins 1-3rd place [mechs fault]

shawn , thanks for all the help tunning this thing in . stock 89 cc motor and clutchs and sms rev pipe what a combo!
can 't wait to see what it will do outdoors.

[turbo appex]

89cc sms pipe sms porting and clutching up frt. again . good job shawn we knew this was a bad @$$ combo last year just no one believed us you got a spare apex for feb.??????

[SMS]

Hi guys here is the pros pipe vs snyder pipe we did not tune to the snyder pipe so we not as good down low. It seemed like we could of went down a few on main jet and lightened the roller weight and we would have been tuned fairly good. I just did not want to waste the time as we already new were it was going. If you have any questions let me or Kevin at never ready know. This is from his 90 drr. The main thing we have noticed it the mid to top gain was awsome! as you can see in mph and it really was very rich. As far as dba I do not have a actual rating yet but it seems a bit quiter than the technagas and koso.

[SMS]

this is sms pipe vs pros pipe, and we did not tune to sms pipe

[marsrace2]

what sixe motor was that last test? and I am guessing the blue line is your pipe?

[marsrace2]

sorry I meant what SIZE

[marsrace2]

sorry I need to pay attention I saw that you said 90

[QuadJunkies]

Originally posted by SMS
As far as dba I do not have a actual rating yet but it seems a bit quiter than the technagas and koso.

Will you be DB testing in the near future ? This will play a huge part for us on the West Coast as DB requirements are getting strict for the Nationals and will trickle in to the Amatuer classes in the near future.
Thanks

[hotquads1]

Originally posted by marsrace2
what sixe motor was that last test? and I am guessing the blue line is your pipe?
.
.I think the blue line is the power pros, it ran first in the time line , then they bolted on SMS pipe and ran a few minutes later, Correct me if I am wrong. Thanks for posting the dyno's, do you recall at what RPM the highest power was made , Shawn? on either pipe?
marc

[SMS]

I believe the pros pipe would run up to 10-11k and ours will go to 14k On kevins engine it would only go 13k he runs alot lower port time then we normally but he has a good kit were everything is designed and clutched for lower rpm.

I will work on db of pipe but Im getting very bizzy to get ready for Indy Show. I will do my best I just don't want people to think Im blowing them off I will do my best to get you guys what you ask for.

[QuadJunkies]

Originally posted by SMS
I believe the pros pipe would run up to 10-11k and ours will go to 14k On kevins engine it would only go 13k he runs alot lower port time then we normally but he has a good kit were everything is designed and clutched for lower rpm.

I will work on db of pipe but Im getting very bizzy to get ready for Indy Show. I will do my best I just don't want people to think Im blowing them off I will do my best to get you guys what you ask for.
We would like to give the pipe a try,but DB will need to be 98( and eventually 96) so we just want to make sure its a pipe we can run.
That would be great, thanks,much appreciated !;)

[SMS]

Just wanted to make it clear that Kevins port height is different from mine. My point was is his bike ran good and was tuned awsome for his setup! Please do not read more or less into it. His set up worked great for the pipe he had and mine works great for mine!

[SMS]

We got some good feed back that the pipe works really good with the drr70 even on stock bike. I hope they will post!!!

[machwon]

Sounds like this pipe works great on anything and at any rpm range you need it too!

[jread14]

I am one of those troopers... It took some clutch mods, but that thing freakin rips now that it is dialed in. Thanks for all your help Shawn...:p

[mxmomma159]

We purchased the SMS pipe for my daughters DRR 70. It made an AMAZING difference, just the pipe alone. My daughter, on her new 70 w/ sms pipe, completely SMOKED our LT80 that has complete jet kit from CT Racing on it. She has no other mods right now other than changing the carb on the 70. My daughters 70 RIPS now with just the pipe alone. We already have one ordered for my son... THANKS SMS!

[SMS]

I just wanted to let everyone know that Dale raced this week end and they tested the sound level it passed the 96 db test.

[QuadJunkies]

Originally posted by SMS
I just wanted to let everyone know that Dale raced this week end and they tested the sound level it passed the 96 db test.

Thats what I heard...:cool:
I responded to the WORCS topic
We will be in touch next week for get one for Brandon.
Check your PM's.

[rmuscle]

I have a 70 with mk motor and snyder pipe over range kit will be in today. What roller weights are u guys running with this set up
Thanks Ron

[Logan #34's Dad]

If it is the new Malossi overrange with the big (19X15.5) rollers, I use 6 - 6.5gram rollers. I wish I could go lower but I can't if I want full belt travel. Also use the 1000 ZTR torque spring.

[rmuscle]

Originally posted by Logan #34's Dad
If it is the new Malossi overrange with the big (19X15.5) rollers, I use 6 - 6.5gram rollers. I wish I could go lower but I can't if I want full belt travel. Also use the 1000 ZTR torque spring. do u know who stocks those rollers

[drt18]

CALL SNYDERS 866 345 5443 HE HAS THEM ALL IN STOCK.

[SMS]

Hi we have rollers, torque springs, belt and alot of other parts such as rims, tires, plastic, cylinder kits