Auto Bailout Discussion

[derekhonda]

Surprised I have not seen a thread about this.

My thoughts. It should be a sink or swim world, and if years of bad business practice is the reason for you to be going out of business, don't hold your hand out and expect the goverment to write a check. I realize this is going to really hurt millions of workers, but at the same time, its almost a sweet payback for years of unionized labor getting paid for nothing.

Your thoughts?

[quad59]

It will hurt but letting them fail needs to happen. They need to file for bankruptcy so they can realign there operations and renegotiate with the unions. I'm not for or against the unions, I feel there needs to be a balance companys need to pay there people a living wage but the worker needs to be working and not taking more than he's worth. Greed will devore alot of things!! I dont think the government needs to be bailing out any companys with taxpayer dollars. Not when there are so many other things that are messed up. Why cant they bailout social security,or the failing educational system, how about some local cities infastructure.

[250r(quadman19)]

this is another BS BILL :grr: Why should we have to pay for THEIR mistakes? some people say it'll "help the economy". if a small family owned business struggles the government doesn't save them. Most of the american people do not want this bailout but it'll probably pass because we have no say in whether it does or not :mad: Maybe they should focus on creating more fuel efficient vehicles rather than making them look all flashy. Hello to Government bailout for corporate america.

[Hornbreaker]

Here's an idea, Let the OIL companies bail them out!!! If the OIL companies want to stay in business they should fork over the money. What do you think?

[Quad18star]

If you happened to watch Larry King Live lastnight he had Michael Moore on . Now I know most of you guys can't stand Moore , but he made some very strong points lastnight.

Right now GM is in the process of building a 300 million dollar production plant in Russia .... so if they get this Bailout money , where do you think it could end up going? To jobs overseas.

On the other hand , a bailout could result in millions of jobs being saved on North American soil. If GM, Chrysler and Ford go bankrupt , it affects the workers in these plants , but it also affect workers at tire plants , spark plug manufacturing plants and so on. If a bailout doesn't happen , you're looking at up to 3 million people out of work , with no food on the table.

It has already started to take full effect in some areas. Flint Michigan is a damn near Ghost town . Windsor has nothing left. Detroit is being hit hard.

The problems don't come from the Unionized workers , the problems come from the Head CEOs that are making millions upon millions in salaries and bonuses. These are the guys that need to be OUT if the bailout happens. They come calling saying they are on the verge of bankruptcy , yet flew into Washington on their $35, 45 and 65 Million dollar private jets.

When asked yesturday if any of them flew in commercial , none of the 4 said they did. When asked if they had any plans to sell they private jets , again all 4 said No.


Moore had it right lastnight . He said that if the Bailout happens , the Government has to take control of the companies and manage them correctly. He also said that they should be forced to produce fuel efficient vehicles with high saftey standards . Vehicles which appeal to the consumer .

If the Bailout happens , the companies should be forced to do what the government tells them to do... and that's the only way they should be able to receive 1 red cent from Taxpayers.

[derekhonda]

The problems don't come from the Unionized workers , the problems come from the Head CEOs that are making millions upon millions in salaries and bonuses

I would disagree heavily. While I think the 26 million dollar salary is hugely overkill, that doesn't even begin to compare to the thousands of union workers that get paid for nothing. Their union contracts are horrible for industry. These guys get paid 75-90% of their salary to not go to work when it is slow.

These exec salaries and benefits do need to be slashed, and unionized labor needs to go. I can guarantee you one thing: If you are good at a trade, and are willing to work 40 hours a week, you will always have a job. Its the people who aren't good at what they do, and demand 6 weeks vacation a year and a pay rate above their qualifications that have ruined the industry.

[brian76708]

Originally posted by quad59
It will hurt but letting them fail needs to happen. They need to file for bankruptcy so they can realign there operations and renegotiate with the unions. I'm not for or against the unions, I feel there needs to be a balance companys need to pay there people a living wage but the worker needs to be working and not taking more than he's worth. Greed will devore alot of things!! I dont think the government needs to be bailing out any companys with taxpayer dollars. Not when there are so many other things that are messed up. Why cant they bailout social security,or the failing educational system, how about some local cities infastructure.

I agree they have not had the best business practices but what you don't realize is how many people will be affected if they go under. You have to think there are people indirectly in the automotive business that will suffer like those who makes parts tools and machines. If they don't get bailed out then we are in big trouble. You people fail to realize the scale it will effect people.

[quad59]

Problem being if you give them money they will spend it else where on foreign plants. Selling the same old re-named cars cheaper to whoever is left to buy one. The american auto worker is getting pinched no matter what. These are greedy buisness man we are talking about on both sides. They have no care as to what happens the line worker they want to continue operations for there own jobs. I would hope if they are given any money it would be dependant on use for american soil operations only. When you apply for an operations loan on any buisness the bank looks at current and past revenue, if the revenue is not there they need to see a buisness plan as to what you are going to do to generate the needed funds to sustain operations and payback the loan. The auto companys are using desperation to there advantage screaming that they dont have the cash to operate. Some of the released figures show that they have been seeing steady quarterly losses for years. Are you going to tell me that this is all a surprise to them. NO.. Its an option for cheap financing they may never need to repay to keep doing buisness as usual. A band aid when you need stiches.

[ben300]

Originally posted by derekhonda
Surprised I have not seen a thread about this.

My thoughts. It should be a sink or swim world, and if years of bad business practice is the reason for you to be going out of business, don't hold your hand out and expect the goverment to write a check. I realize this is going to really hurt millions of workers, but at the same time, its almost a sweet payback for years of unionized labor getting paid for nothing.

Your thoughts?


are you a ****ing moron, the uaw auto workers are some of teh highest paid unionized workers in teh world, with detroit auto works making upwards of $75/hr and in other places making $45/hr +...thats more than i make, and im an engineer with a degree...and on top of that the auto companies have had to pay all these out of work auto workers these ****ing huge insane pentions that are absolutely obsurd for a person with no college education. if the dman uaw wasnt so greedy and wanting this adn that ....then the companies wouldnt be so bad off


they need to go file for bankruptcy, and then tell teh uaw to **** themselves.....

this union stuff is nuts at times, at the power plant that im an engineer at, the workers have been with out a contract for well over a year because the union and workers refuse to sign because the company wont gie the a $4/hr raise, increase there pension, and give them this insane health care package...its nuts


and as far as fuel efficient vehicles, GM, produces more vehicles that get 30+ miles to the gallon than toyota or honda...

plus they produce trucks that many small business use for haulng equipment, merchandise or what not..toyota, which eveyone and thre borther seems to love...has no desire to produce these trucks....plus GM has hybrid trucks.....

[derekhonda]

Originally posted by ben300
are you a ****ing moron, the uaw auto workers are some of teh highest paid unionized workers in teh world, with detroit auto works making upwards of $75/hr and in other places making $45/hr +...thats more than i make, and im an engineer with a degree...and on top of that the auto companies have had to pay all these out of work auto workers these ****ing huge insane pentions that are absolutely obsurd for a person with no college education. if the dman uaw wasnt so greedy and wanting this adn that ....then the companies wouldnt be so bad off

I don't get how i would be a moron since you just agreed with me?

I said the union is the problem. People being paid too much for a job that doesn't deserve it. And to boot, the union making undeserving demands such as 90% when they aren't working.

[Cron]

All the bailout will do is prolong the inevitable. It's a band-aid for a stab wound.

They will do absolutely nothing to adjust their business model and blow through it by the end of the next year asking for another handout.

The CEOs claim its the economy that has hurt their sales. But anyone who has followed the industry knows that the UAW is killing them right now. Every car they produce $2500 goes to pay for the workers compare that to $800 of Toyota or Honda.

The problem is that GM has given into the UAW time and time again to their every demand. Now they are paying for it. GM has a plant in Michigan where 1000+ employees literally show up and sit in a cafeteria all day and get paid for not working, 8 hrs a day 5 days a week. Their pension cost are astronomical, and im sorry but people shouldn't make 50$+ for pressing a button.

They need to File for chapter 11, reorganize, get new management, cut cost, and re work their union agreements. Yes some people will have to take pay cuts or worse lose their job, but sadly, thats busines.

[Fred55]

Bart Simpson said it best, your damned if you do, your damned if you don't. I think if they do except to get any money to help out, there must be restructuring before anything, start from the top down......

[ben300]

Originally posted by derekhonda
but at the same time, its almost a sweet payback for years of unionized labor getting paid for nothing.


see but you contradict yourself,


cause they've been getting paid insane ammounts of money for years.....adn im not saying some of them dont work hard, cause there is ppl that do..but still


im only saying this unless you ment that the where getting paid to much in your first statement

[ben300]

Originally posted by Fred55
Bart Simpson said it best, your damned if you do, your damned if you don't. I think if they do except to get any money to help out, there must be restructuring before anything, start from the top down......

unfortunately, the top is not where the real problem lies....


its the bottom...

ya the top gets paid insane ammounts of money, but the bottom sucks up even more of it

[derekhonda]

Originally posted by ben300
see but you contradict yourself,


cause they've been getting paid insane ammounts of money for years.....adn im not saying some of them dont work hard, cause there is ppl that do..but still


im only saying this unless you ment that the where getting paid to much in your first statement

Let me rephrase:

"But at the same time, its almost sweet revenge for years of unionized labor getting paid for nothing now that their jobs are in limbo."

[ben300]

Originally posted by derekhonda
Let me rephrase:

"But at the same time, its almost sweet revenge for years of unionized labor getting paid for nothing now that their jobs are in limbo."



got ya now

[ZWILLETT47]

The CEOs of Ford (Alan Mulally), Chrysler (Robert Nardelli) and GM (Rick Wagoner ) were in Washington, D.C., on Tuesday begging the government for billions of dollars because their businesses are broke.

Sounds like there was quite a bit of histrionics from the trio. They claimed that they'll likely go out of business without a bailout.

Anyway, this didn't stop the CEOs from traveling in private, company owned, luxurious jets to get to D.C.

First class wasn't good enough????
They should be flying coach!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ABC News reports that Wagoner's private jet trip to Washington cost the ailing GM an estimated $20,000 roundtrip.

In comparison, seats on Northwest Airlines flight 2364 from Detroit to Washington were going online for $288 coach and $837 first class.

Couldn't the 3 have 'planepooled' at least? They were going to the same place!

Tom Schatz, President of Citizens Against Government Waste said, "This is a slap in the face of taxpayers. To come to Washington on a corporate jet, and asking for a hand out is outrageous… It appears that the senior management of the automakers simply don't get it."

The Ford CEO told Congress that he's cut expenses, laid-off workers and closed 17 plants.
But, get this: Ford continues to operate a fleet of eight private jets for its executives!!!!
The ABC report goes on to say that on Tuesday, one jet was taking Ford honchos to Los Angeles, another on a trip to Nebraska.

John McElroy of the TV show, Autoline Detroit said, "Now's not the time to do that sort of thing. Now's the time to be humble and show that you're sharing equally in the sacrifice."
When us regular folks are short on cash we sell things to make ends meet right?

GM has 8 luxury jets in its fleet and apparently does NOT plan on selling any of them in this time of 'crisis'. Note, the jet their CEO used to get to DC cost the company $36 million.

President-Elect Obama has advocated for a bailout of the U.S. car companies.
I would hope any auto bailout that the soon-to-be President stamps with his seal of approval incorporates some sort of oversight re. executive 'privileges'.

It's infuriating to think that execs could live lavishly on the backs of tax payers, most of whom are struggling to make ends meet!

The problem in fact is at the TOP!

[Ralph]

Lets just hope China doesn't come in and buy the Big 3 up.

Im pretty sure GM is worth less than Mattel right now. China has something like 2 trillion in reserves and would profit big time.

[bwamos]

25 Billion dollar high risk loan.

The CEO's better do more than whine and beg. They better damn well come up with a solid business plan proving it is not a waste of capital and only delaying the inevitable.

GM is losing 5 billion per month. Their chunk would be about 15 billion. Where is their business plan to break even or turn a profit in 90 days?.

[hawood]

Originally posted by ZWILLETT47
The CEOs of Ford (Alan Mulally), Chrysler (Robert Nardelli) and GM (Rick Wagoner ) were in Washington, D.C., on Tuesday begging the government for billions of dollars because their businesses are broke.

Sounds like there was quite a bit of histrionics from the trio. They claimed that they'll likely go out of business without a bailout.

Anyway, this didn't stop the CEOs from traveling in private, company owned, luxurious jets to get to D.C.

First class wasn't good enough????
They should be flying coach!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ABC News reports that Wagoner's private jet trip to Washington cost the ailing GM an estimated $20,000 roundtrip.

In comparison, seats on Northwest Airlines flight 2364 from Detroit to Washington were going online for $288 coach and $837 first class.

Couldn't the 3 have 'planepooled' at least? They were going to the same place!

Tom Schatz, President of Citizens Against Government Waste said, "This is a slap in the face of taxpayers. To come to Washington on a corporate jet, and asking for a hand out is outrageous… It appears that the senior management of the automakers simply don't get it."

The Ford CEO told Congress that he's cut expenses, laid-off workers and closed 17 plants.
But, get this: Ford continues to operate a fleet of eight private jets for its executives!!!!
The ABC report goes on to say that on Tuesday, one jet was taking Ford honchos to Los Angeles, another on a trip to Nebraska.

John McElroy of the TV show, Autoline Detroit said, "Now's not the time to do that sort of thing. Now's the time to be humble and show that you're sharing equally in the sacrifice."
When us regular folks are short on cash we sell things to make ends meet right?

GM has 8 luxury jets in its fleet and apparently does NOT plan on selling any of them in this time of 'crisis'. Note, the jet their CEO used to get to DC cost the company $36 million.

President-Elect Obama has advocated for a bailout of the U.S. car companies.
I would hope any auto bailout that the soon-to-be President stamps with his seal of approval incorporates some sort of oversight re. executive 'privileges'.

It's infuriating to think that execs could live lavishly on the backs of tax payers, most of whom are struggling to make ends meet!

The problem in fact is at the TOP!


I was having a good day until I read this.

These ceo's just make me sick, someone should shoot em.

[Quad18star]

Originally posted by ZWILLETT47
The CEOs of Ford (Alan Mulally), Chrysler (Robert Nardelli) and GM (Rick Wagoner ) were in Washington, D.C., on Tuesday begging the government for billions of dollars because their businesses are broke.

Sounds like there was quite a bit of histrionics from the trio. They claimed that they'll likely go out of business without a bailout.

Anyway, this didn't stop the CEOs from traveling in private, company owned, luxurious jets to get to D.C.

First class wasn't good enough????
They should be flying coach!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ABC News reports that Wagoner's private jet trip to Washington cost the ailing GM an estimated $20,000 roundtrip.

In comparison, seats on Northwest Airlines flight 2364 from Detroit to Washington were going online for $288 coach and $837 first class.

Couldn't the 3 have 'planepooled' at least? They were going to the same place!

Tom Schatz, President of Citizens Against Government Waste said, "This is a slap in the face of taxpayers. To come to Washington on a corporate jet, and asking for a hand out is outrageous… It appears that the senior management of the automakers simply don't get it."

The Ford CEO told Congress that he's cut expenses, laid-off workers and closed 17 plants.
But, get this: Ford continues to operate a fleet of eight private jets for its executives!!!!
The ABC report goes on to say that on Tuesday, one jet was taking Ford honchos to Los Angeles, another on a trip to Nebraska.

John McElroy of the TV show, Autoline Detroit said, "Now's not the time to do that sort of thing. Now's the time to be humble and show that you're sharing equally in the sacrifice."
When us regular folks are short on cash we sell things to make ends meet right?

GM has 8 luxury jets in its fleet and apparently does NOT plan on selling any of them in this time of 'crisis'. Note, the jet their CEO used to get to DC cost the company $36 million.

President-Elect Obama has advocated for a bailout of the U.S. car companies.
I would hope any auto bailout that the soon-to-be President stamps with his seal of approval incorporates some sort of oversight re. executive 'privileges'.

It's infuriating to think that execs could live lavishly on the backs of tax payers, most of whom are struggling to make ends meet!

The problem in fact is at the TOP!

They showed the ABC news reporter asking one of the CEO's the question on Larry King Live lastnight. The CEO was happy until he was asked why he flew in on a 30 million dollar private Jet ... afetr the question was asked he refused to speak to the reporter.

Like I said , greed at the top is what the problem is. In a time when people are/were/will pay $6 for a gallon of gas , no one wants a vehicle that gets HORRIBLE gas mileage. The big 3 throw out the mileage numbers that they claim they get , but once it's independantly tested , the Big 3 fall to the bottom of the pack.


Now with fears of them going bankrupt , people are even more skeptical of purchasing from them. If they go under , who's going to do the warranty ?

They've dug a hole for themselves so deep that they won't get out of it.

I won't get into Unions cuz that's another subject . But I'm a union supporter.

if GM goes under we're done

we'll end up in another depression
GM alone holds around 300,000 jobs not counting the countless dealerships that sell their vehicles

[quad59]

Originally posted by Honda or DI3
if GM goes under we're done

we'll end up in another depression
GM alone holds around 300,000 jobs not counting the countless dealerships that sell their vehicles

Wake up and smell the coffee ,depression is coming regardless of wasting more tax payers dollars. Liquify your assets,bury your money on a jar in the basement. As far as the big 3 auto, bailout money or not I bet they are done before 2010, they will just waste it.

[<DRS>GPF]

ive gotta believe that part of the reason for failure is perception.

late generation X and most of generation Y does not see the US mfr's cars as a "good car". or "doesnt get the mileage"..

perception can often be most of the sale and all of the satisfaction.

believe it or not, there is decent US made economy cars out there that get 30+ mpg. (cobalt, alero, classic, focus, the saturn line etc.)

theyre really there, but theyre perceived to be junk when compared to foreign made cars.. and ive noticed that some dont stop to realize the general "class" of the cars theyre comparing.
class them by price and things level out a bit.

what they need to do is go on a crusade of "performance economy cars".. create performance aftermarket options to make the new generation interested. get into video games etc. with something that caters to more than retirees and the cash broke.

oh.. and get rid of the odd inner factions(brand names within brand names).. or at least focus each faction on the market theyve been historically known for and stop diversifying each name so much.

[Giz400ex]

Originally posted by Honda or DI3
if GM goes under we're done

we'll end up in another depression
GM alone holds around 300,000 jobs not counting the countless dealerships that sell their vehicles We're already in the start of the depression but its not in full force. We will notice it more around x-mas time and after that it will get worse. As for the bailout, the auto industry will not benefit from this and it needs to fail. The bailout money is just for your executives and thats it! The bailout is a temporary fix to there problem and eventually we the people won't see where it did anything.

[brian76708]

Originally posted by Giz400ex
We're already in the start of the depression but its not in full force. We will notice it more around x-mas time and after that it will get worse. As for the bailout, the auto industry will not benefit from this and it needs to fail. The bailout money is just for your executives and thats it! The bailout is a temporary fix to there problem and eventually we the people won't see where it did anything.

where are you getting this info from can you support your facts. nice try but, YOU FAIL.

[brian76708]

Originally posted by Honda or DI3
if GM goes under we're done

we'll end up in another depression
GM alone holds around 300,000 jobs not counting the countless dealerships that sell their vehicles

yea that's not even counting the suppliers either which holds a great deal of people its self. If GM goes down it will be a domino affect and many other companies will suffer too.

[Quad18star]

They just had on TV that Ford's CEO makes $49 million a year.

Add that to the $35 million dollar jet .... I wonder why they're going broke !?!?!

[Ex_Rider43]

Originally posted by Quad18star
They just had on TV that Ford's CEO makes $49 million a year.

Add that to the $35 million dollar jet .... I wonder why they're going broke !?!?!

Yes this is a lot of money and they need to fix this ,


But this is nothing compared to the money they give to their workers.

the big 3 have an average of 75$/hour all benefits included.

Honda Toyota ect are around 45$/hour with benefits .


Is Toyota and Honda crying right now ?

GM Ford and Chrysler gave the union workers everything they wanted everytime they had to re-sign their conditions. These conditions were OK 30 or 40 years ago but the good times are over now.

They need to get rid of those useless divisions , bring the union-workers back to reality and also they need to manage the company like a business thats in trouble.

whats next if this bailout happens ? the aircraft industry ?

[Giz400ex]

Originally posted by brian76708
where are you getting this info from can you support your facts. nice try but, YOU FAIL. The facts are already coming out. Hundreds of stores will be closing after x-mas due to the economy. Products are already being hard to find and enough are not being made. My advice to you, facts are not on the internet, you will need to go outside of your house and look around. Facts are " we are in a depression":eek2:

[trick450r]

i refuse to bailout companies that are large contributers to our economic crisis right now...The number one and two most "american made" cars are the toyota corolla and the honda accord. The big three have cut hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of jobs so they could outsource production plants. We should giving the import cars support, Honda has begun contsruction of a plant in ohio. Heres some disturbing numbers for you guys...

Percentage of cars assembled in america

Ford 95%
Toyota 70%
Chrysler 40%
Honda 35%
GM 25%
Nissan 10%

percentage of parts on a ford fusion manufactured in North America- 8.8%

Percentage of Parts on a Honda accord manufactured in North America- 53.2%



Give me one good reason i should bailout gm.

However you cant necassarily blame all of this on the manufacturers...the unions are the ones who made it next to impossible for operations to continue in the united states...imo their is absolutely no way in hell an assembly line worker should be making $75 plus an hour. Thats insanity!! We pay good, we dont over work, we give breaks to everyone...ENOUGH WITH THE GOD DAMN UNIONS PEOPLE!!


Its so dissapointing watching the way this country is going. And frankly i find it sad that young people (including myself) all across the nation are ready to give up and abandon ship on this titanic of a country. Whomever said bury your money in the backyard was absolutely right. Or move out of the country.

[Warnerade]

I work in a tool and die shop and we have 4 workers that came from chrysler...they are definately not trained workers, they just hit go on the machine and load parts...have done it for the past 3-4 years, and this whole time...the 4 of them have been receiving pay checks from chrysler for 700+ dollars a WEEK. So not only are they receiving that money, which is more than enough for any american to live on if they are good with money, but they also make 20+ an hour working anywhere from 40-70 hours a week.

THAT is exactly why GM is failing, and that is exactly why they deserve to fail.

[blacknblue#2]

Yeah General Motors got theirself into this, and they should be punished. No man is worth 40 some odd million a year. But if they do go under we are done. Like stated before it will be a domino effect and the last thing our economy needs is another big hardship. I say the govt. should write a contract that they will bail them out but the govt. makes the rules of what man makes how much money.

[ZeroLogic]

The country is ****ed. Theres no other way to say it. We dug ourselves so deep in a hole that we won't get out of. Times are tough now but they will get worse. A lot worse. The bail out won't do anything but keep their mouths shut. They won't pay the goverment back because they are going to fail anyway way down the road. You make cars/trucks that get **** mpg, prices through the roof, workers getting 75+ dollars a god damn ****ing hour, and have all these luxuries. Your bound to fail. Every company and person in America needs to adjust and all help fix this problem.:ermm:

[brian76708]

Originally posted by Giz400ex
The facts are already coming out. Hundreds of stores will be closing after x-mas due to the economy. Products are already being hard to find and enough are not being made. My advice to you, facts are not on the internet, you will need to go outside of your house and look around. Facts are " we are in a depression":eek2:

i didn't mean the depression part i was talking about all the money is just going to go to the top.

[kbass24emtp]

The big three are not going to go under. If the bail out falls through, like it should. They will have to file for chaper 11. Which means that all contracts have to be redone. They will still be making vehicles, and such. In short NO MORE UAW. This will allow the big three to compete. The media makes it sound like the UAW has no fault in this. Tell me one union job that its workers get 90% of their pay for one year if layed off. I can't think of any. I'm all for unions, in fact I'm a union Firefighter, but I have no support for the UAW.

[Quad18star]

Originally posted by kbass24emtp
The big three are not going to go under. If the bail out falls through, like it should. They will have to file for chaper 11. Which means that all contracts have to be redone. They will still be making vehicles, and such. In short NO MORE UAW. This will allow the big three to compete. The media makes it sound like the UAW has no fault in this. Tell me one union job that its workers get 90% of their pay for one year if layed off. I can't think of any. I'm all for unions, in fact I'm a union Firefighter, but I have no support for the UAW.

Is it the workers faults for asking this in their contracts or is it the companies fault for agreeing to it?

There's plenty of companies out there , in which it's workers are unionized ,that haven't ratified their contracts ... instead have brought in replacement workers ( aka SCABS) to do the jobs and have been going on for years.

I know of unions in which if their workers get layed off , they're entitled to 70% of their pay for one year. What this does is allow workers time to find suitable employment , rather than be stuck with nothing the next day.

When you're from a town in which everyone is employed by 1 company , and they decide to close up with no warning , where do these people go? Some town go from booming one day to deadsville the next. When you own a home , you can't just pack up and move within a week .... bills still need to be paid. That's why severance pays are part of contracts.

[derekhonda]

Originally posted by blacknblue#2
I say the govt. should write a contract that they will bail them out but the govt. makes the rules of what man makes how much money.

Oh god....

You must have been an obama supporter, cause you sound like a socialist.

That is over the line, and that is exactly why the government should not intervene. If the company cannot stay afloat on their own, they should go out of business. It is that simple. If the business on main street folds, the government wont do anything. Just cause the company is that much bigger doesn't matter to me, they need to file bankruptcy and restructure, all on their own. First thing they need to do is tell the unions to **** off they will make the normal wage for a button pusher and if the ceos can get this thing going again they deserve their millions of dollars salaries. Until then, they should work for free cause their bad business practices are why they are in this mess.

[derekhonda]

Originally posted by Quad18star

I know of unions in which if their workers get layed off , they're entitled to 70% of their pay for one year. What this does is allow workers time to find suitable employment , rather than be stuck with nothing the next day.


Why don't they file for unemployment like everyone else would? 70% to do nothing for a year...sign me up.


And as for the chicken and the egg story, I would agree with you and say it is more management fault for agreeing with it and i don't blame the unions for asking...BUT they always ask. And to be honest I would say they hold the cards when it comes to negotiating because they can just walk off (like they do just about every time a new contract year comes around) They don't know what is best for the company, they are the workers not the managers, and for them to demand certain things shows a degree of selfishness.

[Warnerade]

Originally posted by derekhonda
Why don't they file for unemployment like everyone else would? 70% to do nothing for a year...sign me up.


And as for the chicken and the egg story, I would agree with you and say it is more management fault for agreeing with it and i don't blame the unions for asking...BUT they always ask. And to be honest I would say they hold the cards when it comes to negotiating because they can just walk off (like they do just about every time a new contract year comes around) They don't know what is best for the company, they are the workers not the managers, and for them to demand certain things shows a degree of selfishness. exactly why I've been against unions for as long as I can remember...

Lets demand higher pay to do less work, and we if we dont get it...we go on strike! Yay my vag is bleeding!

[Quad18star]

Originally posted by derekhonda
Oh god....

You must have been an obama supporter, cause you sound like a socialist.

That is over the line, and that is exactly why the government should not intervene. If the company cannot stay afloat on their own, they should go out of business. It is that simple. If the business on main street folds, the government wont do anything. Just cause the company is that much bigger doesn't matter to me, they need to file bankruptcy and restructure, all on their own. First thing they need to do is tell the unions to **** off they will make the normal wage for a button pusher and if the ceos can get this thing going again they deserve their millions of dollars salaries. Until then, they should work for free cause their bad business practices are why they are in this mess.

The difference between main street business and large scale business , is that when main street goes bankrupt 20 employees get layed off.

When big business goes bankrupt thousands of plant jobs are lost and the domino affect results in 3 million jobs being lost. That alone is 1% of your population losing their job because of the Big 3 bankruptcy .... that's a HUGE number.

Blacknblue#2 said it right ..... if they are bailed out , the Government should dictate how much these top CEOs make and what they spend the money on. Look what happened with the bank bailout . The week after they received the money , the top CEOs and management when to a luxurious resort for "meetings" on the tax payer dime which cost $440 000 . Is that right?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
After Bailout, AIG Executives Head to Resort
UPDATED: 11:31 a.m.

Less than a week after the federal government offered an $85 billion bailout to insurance giant AIG, the company held a week-long retreat for its executives at the luxury St. Regis Resort in Monarch Beach, Calif., running up a tab of $440,000, Rep. Henry Waxman (D-Calif.) said today at the the opening of a House committee hearing about the near-failure of the insurance giant.

Showing a photograph of the resort, Waxman said the executives spent $200,000 for rooms, $150,000 for meals and $23,000 for the spa.

"Less than a week after the taxpayers rescued AIG, company executives could be found wining and dining at one of the most exclusive resorts in the nation," Waxman said. "We will ask whether any of this makes sense. "

The committee will ask the company's executives about their multimillion-dollar pay packages -- some of which they continue to receive -- as well as who bears responsibility for the company's high-risk investment portfolio, which led to its near collapse just weeks ago.

"They were getting their manicures, their pedicures, massages, their facials while the American people were paying their bills," thundered Rep. Elijah E. Cummings (D-Md.), of the executive retreat at the Monarch Resort.

The House committee, which took on executive compensation at bankrupt Wall Street firm Lehman Brothers yesterday, has received "tens of thousands" of pages of documents from AIG, Waxman said.

Those documents show that as the company's risky investments began to implode, the company altered its generous executive pay plan to pay out regardless of such losses.
AIG lost over $5 billion in the last quarter of 2007 due its risky financial products division, Waxman said. Yet in March 2008, when the company's compensation committee met to award bonuses, Chief Executive Martin Sullivan urged the committee to ignore those losses, which should have slashed bonuses.

But the board agreed to ignore the losses from the financial products division and gave Sullivan a cash bonus of over $5 million. The board also approved a new compensation contract for Sullivan that gave him a golden parachute of $15 million, Waxman said.

Joseph Cassano, the executive in charge of the company's troubled financial products division, received more than $280 million over the last eight years, Waxman said. Even after he was terminated in February as his investments turned sour, the company allowed him to keep up to $34 million in unvested bonuses and put him on a $1 million-a-month retainer. He continues to receive $1 million a month, Waxman said.

[Wills77]

if GM (hummer) does go under, how will the military be affected considering most of the military vehicles are GM

[derekhonda]

So what about when 100 "little unimportant shops" go belly up? How about a thousand? Where should the all important government draw the line? Should they start helping out airlines instead of forcing them to file bankruptcy?

The one thing you guys are forgetting, is the goverment which created fannie and freddie, is responsible for the banks giving out risky loans for great rates. They forced the banks to loan out money they normally would not (to risky people). That is the ONLY reason in my opinion that the banks deserved to be bailed out.

So this whole "let the government make the rules" idea does not fly with me, when they overstep their boundaries bad bad bad things will happen.

And yes I know what the aig execs did, that was a slap in the face, and another reason why no company should be bailed out. The problem with a free market enterprise, and then letting the government in essence control an industry is that they know nothing about what to do.

Take the most accomplished lawyer in the world, now...lets have him fly a plane....probably not a good idea.

[quad59]

Originally posted by Wills77
if GM (hummer) does go under, how will the military be affected considering most of the military vehicles are GM

Not all military vehicles are GM. We use alot of Ford F series pickups,chrysler cars and vans, GM box trucks. We would simply buy something else. If your worried about the hummer as a military vehicle dont. There is a replacement coming.

The big three will fail regardless of a bailout ( fact). They will eventually file bankruptcy and restructure. They are not going to just stop making cars, to think that is rediculous. However there will some jobs lost.

[ben300]

Originally posted by Warnerade
exactly why I've been against unions for as long as I can remember...

Lets demand higher pay to do less work, and we if we dont get it...we go on strike! Yay my vag is bleeding!

i agree....but the only problem is...that just isnt the unions adn union workers, thats just that new now aday american....

we want everything these days and dont want to do anythign to get it....everybody seems to think that everything should just be given to them. we should take a look at our paretns adn our grandparents and see how they worked for everything that they have and had....