09 clutch

[nbm]

Does it bother anybody else that can am knows how to fix the squealing clutch problem in there 450's but choose not to. In the oct 08 atv sport magazine, they asked Del Bohlman, Can Am's ATV product and racing manager about the noise and why it is still there in the 09's. He explained the problem and said they fixed it in there factory race bikes by adding extra oiling holes in the clutch basket. First off, why not fix it in the production bikes if it's that easy, second, how about a recall or at least a how to on drilling the holes ourselves. I have purchased many quads new but this is the first one that I regret buying.

[WesDS450X]

you wont notice the squealing with exhuast

[african rider]

Originally posted by WesDS450X
you wont notice the squealing with exhuast

i have ron wood exhuast and still hear the clutch squealing, especially when im shifting down in high RPM's.

it's too bed that can am didn't fix it in the 09 model :grr:

[ds450racer]

The sqeaking noise is the clutch plates. where it sits still for a week or so the oil will sit and the bottom of the clutch. the top part of the clutch plates get really dry and make the squeaking noise you hear. just tip the bike on it side slightly before you go out to let the oil soak in to the clutch plates.

[WarBirdMech]

you can get the new clutch cover, hub, and plates from can-am

[Mr. Big Time]

In the book it shows an adjustment you NEED to do with a little screwdriver and that socket looking tool, if you keep up on it, it seems to squeel a little less, mine very rarely squeels.

[DGS]

Originally posted by WarBirdMech
you can get the new clutch cover, hub, and plates from can-am

What he said......

[fastford]

Well they put all the 09 parts into my 08 and the thing still squeaks. Going to get an aftermarket one once I figure out what happened to the 5 or 6 horse I lost....

[nbm]

My clutch doesn't squeal all the time, which means it's not from sitting for long periods of time. It's just not getting enough lube when riding. Can someone direct me to these new parts that can-am offers. does it state that it cures this problem. I went to can-am's site and was unable to find anything. thanks

[younggun95]

the point of the replacement parts is not to fix the squeal because, technically the squeal is not a problem other than it means its not getting enough oil. The new pieces allow more oil which will help the squealing, but they are also much stronger. I don't know if any of you have destroyed a clutch yet, but the stock 08 clutch basket will pretty much distintegrate and send pieces of metal throughout your bottom end.

[atvlover]

This is Johnny with Motoworks. The factories did not come up with a fix for the clutch that the race team uses. We developed it ourselves. The basket and hub that we use works perfectly. It gets oil and doesn't wear the basket out. I do not thnk that anyone else has a basket for the CanAm yet.

[younggun95]

Hotseat Powersports sells the Hinson basket. Not currently on the website, but give them a call. It requires sending in your gear/basket so they can rivet the new hinson basket to the gear.

[Blizzard24]

Johnny, could you please PM me a price for your clutch basket and hub? Thanks -Chris

[Blizzard24]

Ok, so whats the deal from someone who is 100% sure... is the 09 clutch setup fixing the problem of the 08 broken clutch baskets and squeeling?

Is Can Am warrantying the 08's if I bring my DS in and tell them my clutch is squeeling? I am reading a bunch of different things here and no one is stepping in and saying one thing is for sure.

[Hoop450]

Johnny could you pm me a price for the clutch also. Thanks

[ds450racer]

Originally posted by Blizzard24
Ok, so whats the deal from someone who is 100% sure... is the 09 clutch setup fixing the problem of the 08 broken clutch baskets and squeeling?

Is Can Am warrantying the 08's if I bring my DS in and tell them my clutch is squeeling? I am reading a bunch of different things here and no one is stepping in and saying one thing is for sure.
yes im pretty sure they have changed the clutch in the 09 bike.

[TNT]

Originally posted by ds450racer
yes im pretty sure they have changed the clutch in the 09 bike.

It doesn't make a whole of sense to me a task as easy as drilling holes in the factory basket and not the production bike didn't occur to avoid 60 day warranted claims not to mention the Can-Am reputation. There are guys that can fry a clutch of this nature in a few times out. I asked our dealer if they had a list of the issues resolved from 08 to 09, that would be nice. Also asked if he would call the Can-AM rep and ask if the clutch has been redesigned. Altho I am sure it has, I'd like to hear from them before I buy one. I'll check back and see what I can find out.

We did start ours and I didn't hear any squeal at idle while engaging the clutch. Next week when I'm healed will get to ride one and see.

[WarBirdMech]

Changes from 08 to 09

new clutch cover, clutch basket, and an extra clutch plate (9 instead of 8) the clutch cover has a hole drilled for oil fogging
this was a running change from engine number M6748166
part numbers are
New Hub- 420-259-873
New Clutch Cover- 420-611-666
Additional Clutch Plate- 420-259-910
these parts are interchangeable but is recomended to change all


new shift fork and shift drum. the DS was going to have reverse, it never made it. but the 08 drum was desigend for it.
there is also a new crankcase for these changes

there is no more headlight voltage regulator.
(they may have even stopped on later model 08's)
the models with them can cut and splice the wires together

[TNT]

Originally posted by WarBirdMech
Changes from 08 to 09

new clutch cover, clutch basket, and an extra clutch plate (9 instead of 8) the clutch cover has a hole drilled for oil fogging
this was a running change from engine number M6748166
part numbers are
New Hub- 420-259-873
New Clutch Cover- 420-611-666
Additional Clutch Plate- 420-259-910
these parts are interchangeable but is recomended to change all


new shift fork and shift drum. the DS was going to have reverse, it never made it. but the 08 drum was desigend for it.
there is also a new crankcase for these changes

there is no more headlight voltage regulator.
(they may have even stopped on later model 08's)
the models with them can cut and splice the wires together

You da man, I thank you very much! Leaves one question driving me nuts is there a pink wire to cut or is the quad in the "race map" out of the factory?

[joeyds450x]

Originally posted by TNT1
You da man, I thank you very much! Leaves one question driving me nuts is there a pink wire to cut or is the quad in the "race map" out of the factory? you have to cut the wire..you can see the wire wrapped in blue tape in the 09 ds450mx pink wire thread...you cant miss it lol

[TNT]

Originally posted by joeyds450x
you have to cut the wire..you can see the wire wrapped in blue tape in the 09 ds450mx pink wire thread...you cant miss it lol

lol, k thanks I keep telling them at the dealer it's there we have to take the plastic off but they won't listen. I don't own one yet or I would have found it by now. :confused:

[joeyds450x]

Originally posted by TNT1
lol, k thanks I keep telling them at the dealer it's there we have to take the plastic off but they won't listen. I don't own one yet or I would have found it by now. :confused:
ya i wish iwoulda waited to but a 09 mx...but i had to get one as soon as they came out lol but i like my dsx just wish it was wider lol

[nbm]

Originally posted by WarBirdMech
Changes from 08 to 09

new clutch cover, clutch basket, and an extra clutch plate (9 instead of 8) the clutch cover has a hole drilled for oil fogging
this was a running change from engine number M6748166
part numbers are
New Hub- 420-259-873
New Clutch Cover- 420-611-666
Additional Clutch Plate- 420-259-910
these parts are interchangeable but is recomended to change all


new shift fork and shift drum. the DS was going to have reverse, it never made it. but the 08 drum was desigend for it.
there is also a new crankcase for these changes

there is no more headlight voltage regulator.
(they may have even stopped on later model 08's)
the models with them can cut and splice the wires together

Thanks for the info, good to know there is a fix. looks like it was a running change during the 09 production according to the parts fische. I emailed hinson to see if they are working on anything. If they email me back I will post what they said. I'm going to wait awhile longer to see if anymore parts or info comes out about this problem as I won't be riding again til spring.

[nbm]

this was the reply from hinson,

The squealing your are referring to actually clutch plate chatter due to lack of oil to the clutch. Where our basket helps with that slightly by spinning much truer so the the clutch doesn't have to work as hard to engage and disengage, the best solution is getting more oil to the clutch. Although we havent tested it, Can-Am sent out a service bulletin that your Can-Am Dealer can completely educate you on and get the proper parts that does increase that oil flow. Knowing the importance of oil to the clutch I am confident this should provide great improvement over the chatter you are experiencing now.

Let me know if you have any further questions.

Best Regards,
Ron Hinson
Hinson Clutch Components/
KYB Genuine Parts
by Technical Touch USA
1630 W 11th St, Unit E
Upland, CA 91786-3555
USA
909 946-2942 ext 102
909 985-2301 fax

[ds450racer]

another thing we did to stop the squealing on my spare bike is to soak the clutch plates in oil for 24 hours. Works very well

[WarBirdMech]

heres the info for the shift drum and crankcase
there is no new shift fork. just drum

p/n's
420-685-083 crankcase assembly
420-250-130 oil seal (balance shaft)
420-232-855 ball bearing (balance shaft)x2
420-832-526 roller bearing (crankshaft)x2
420-232-765 ball bearing (countershaft)
420-232-291 ball bearing (countershaft)
420-932-032 ball bearing (main shaft)
420-932-825 ball bearing (main shaft)
420-281-499 gearbox assembly
420-257-808 shift drum assembly
420-685-380 gasket set

also another update:
there is an additional thrust washer under the valve spring shim

[TNT]

Originally posted by WarBirdMech


also another update:
there is an additional thrust washer under the valve spring shim

Why?

[WarBirdMech]

Standardization with the V990 engine

[Blizzard24]

I dropped off my DS at the dealership today and told them the clutch is squeeling, I also told them there is a service bulletin in regards to the 09 setup, I will let everyone know what the outcome is.

The quad is still under warranty so this should be covered.

[nbm]

Originally posted by Blizzard24
I dropped off my DS at the dealership today and told them the clutch is squeeling, I also told them there is a service bulletin in regards to the 09 setup, I will let everyone know what the outcome is.

The quad is still under warranty so this should be covered.


I complained about my clutch back in june before there was a fix from can-am. After my dealer called can-am he informed me that the only thing he could do was soak the fibers in oil. I called my dealer again last week after finding out about the bulletin. Once again after talking to can am he informed me that this was just a bulletin and not a recall and that can am would not fix it even if my quad was still under warranty. Please let us know if your dealer does repair it under warranty.

[Blizzard24]

Originally posted by nbm
I complained about my clutch back in june before there was a fix from can-am. After my dealer called can-am he informed me that the only thing he could do was soak the fibers in oil. I called my dealer again last week after finding out about the bulletin. Once again after talking to can am he informed me that this was just a bulletin and not a recall and that can am would not fix it even if my quad was still under warranty. Please let us know if your dealer does repair it under warranty.

If they decide not to warranty this, it will be the last Can-Am product I own, if there is a service bulletin on a car and the car is under warranty, it is fixed and covered, I expect no less from an ATV manufacturer. I do not expect a brand new machine to squeel when taking off from first, I have been on atvs/dirtbikes for 23 years and have never had this happen on any other quads or dirtbikes.

I hope KTM wasnt the better choice to go with... ya listening Can-Am???

[TNT]

I heard swapping the oil out to Rotella 15-40 helps with clutch chatter. That’s what I use in my diesel. Is there any merit to that? I can't understand why?

[Blizzard24]

Just a side note... their parts fiche is actually stating the clutch cover/plates and hub are replacing old styles even on the 08 models. It seems to me if there are inferior parts on a machine creating a problem and you cant even get the old clutch cover or basket, they would need to cover these parts under warranty.

I guess what I am saying is... they need to fix the sqwealing problem, and the only way to do that is by using these new parts to eliminate the lack of lubrication to the clutch, so if they temporarily fix it by soaking the plates, it will be back in the shop within a week to fix it again and again until it meets the NY State Lemon Law.

[TNT]

Can-Am is saying they are not fixing this under a service bulletin warentee and it's not a recall free of charge. Makes me wonder if it is because they are not sure the 08 problem is fixed by the 09 parts. Situations like this look like a fatigue failure of baskets to me. The Can-AM engineer's may have beefed up the gage(thickness) of the basket in 09 and tried to get more oil to the plates to help with thermal fatigue to keep this basket from breaking. The only way to test the design is to cycle the basket on a test fixture and see how long it last OR send it out to production for a "field test" and let racers test it. In the mean time recommend replacement but don't warrantee it. I don't know, I am just jumping in the middle here but from what I read there were a lot of baskets breaking in 08.

[TNT]

Ok my last post was wrong. I just found out the basket is the same from 08 to 09. I'm not sure how hole(s) in the cover are going to get more oil to the the plates...I looked for the hole and could not find it plus wouln't a hole in the cover leak oil? An additional fricktion plate I don't see how that is going to help matters. Guess the only way to find out is over time.

[Blizzard24]

Originally posted by TNT1
Ok my last post was wrong. I just found out the basket is the same from 08 to 09. I'm not sure how hole(s) in the cover are going to get more oil to the the plates...I looked for the hole and could not find it plus wouln't a hole in the cover leak oil? An additional fricktion plate I don't see how that is going to help matters. Guess the only way to find out is over time.
The hole in the cover is not from the inside out, it is internal designed to spray oil to all parts of the clutch... much like the oil squirter in the YFZ450 for the underside of the piston. The oil holes in the basket should get oil to the innermost areas of the plates bathing the clutch basket inside and out... this would result in less heat and less friction which apparently are causing the baskets to weaken and eventually fail

[TNT]

Originally posted by Blizzard24
The hole in the cover is not from the inside out, it is internal designed to spray oil to all parts of the clutch... much like the oil squirter in the YFZ450 for the underside of the piston. The oil holes in the basket should get oil to the innermost areas of the plates bathing the clutch basket inside and out... this would result in less heat and less friction which apparently are causing the baskets to weaken and eventually fail

Thanks that makes more sense! I'm getting an 09 MX today and we'll be out riding it hard. I burnt YAM clutches like crazy so we'll see if the 09 parts solve this soon and if they don't we'll be giving Can-AM a call and seeing how they WILL cover it under warantee..... Maybe several times since my parts guy will be stocking all the clutch parts. I have confidence in Can Am engineers, no quad is perfect, but we are getting prepared just incase.

I'll keep you all posted and thanks for all the good info in return. :D

[Blizzard24]

Well, got a call today... of course they couldnt replicate the squeeling. It has been logged in and they said if I can get it to squeel again, then they will try to take a look at it again.

[fastford]

I got what 09 updates they can fit on an 08 and they presoaked the disks and it still will squeal. A bit less but it still happens.

[mhill157]

The sequealing is the only thing about the ds that worrying you consider yourself lucky. Noise is a common problem with Rotax. Owned four different snowmobilies and they all made weird noises. Something about performance motors.
Have a season under me and the only things that went wrong were, the bearing carrier blowing out after 10 hrs (come on), blowing the rear shock twice, and electrical issues. No clutch issues yet.
When it comes down to it I don't think anything is covered by can am's warranty after the machine has 30 mins on it.
Love the machine more then the honda I had before and recommend it to everybody.

[Blizzard24]

I am doing a little preventitive work to the clutch, I am sending it out to Hinson to have their basket added. Any special tools needed to get the basket off? Any help would greatly be appreciated.

[race proven]

no but i would send it to motoworks they have them in stock no down time it was a very quick turn around and works great have about 16 hours on it now and no problems.

[younggun95]

No special tools. You will have to drain the coolant to pull the 2nd cover off. Pain in the butt getting the shift fork to line up again with the gears when putting the cover back on.
Have you taken the clutch apart yet? You will figure out little tricks getting the steels and fibers to all line up right.

[ds450racer]

Originally posted by Blizzard24
I am doing a little preventitive work to the clutch, I am sending it out to Hinson to have their basket added. Any special tools needed to get the basket off? Any help would greatly be appreciated.
I have a hinson on mine works very well.

[DGS]

You will need the plastic gear on the back of the basket, u cant remove the 1 off the stock basket so u have to purchase a new 1. Hinson might supply 1 with the basket..

[jlrenken]

how much was the hinson

[Blizzard24]

$239 and the turn around time was 2 days.

[jlrenken]

did u just call hinson and set something up. what is different about it compared to the stock other than stronger
thanks

[jlrenken]

also what kind of oil are u running in it.

[Blizzard24]

Originally posted by jlrenken
did u just call hinson and set something up. what is different about it compared to the stock other than stronger
thanks
I spoke to Ron Hinson and asked him how long it would be to get this done, he told me two days, three max. I sent the basket to them w a note and two days later they called for payment info and I will be getting the new basket tomorrow. The difference is it is machined from billet aluminum, not cast aluminum and like all their clutch baskets it is then akadized to increase strength even more.

This is directly from Hinson regarding their baskets
-Precision machined from billet T-6 aircraft quality aluminum to aerospace tolerances, and Akadized for five times the wear resistance to stock* (*with proper maintenance)


As for oil, I have always used Mobil 1 for bikes and prior to that Bel Ray Superbike synthetic... never had clutch issues due to being too slippery. Mobil 1 in all my vehicles now though.

[Mr. Big Time]

The entire clutch assembly from Hinson, is $1200, thats with out the plates, and motoworks is $700-800, without the plates.

[ds450racer]

Ive been using silkolene in mine. Has worked very well.

[jlrenken]

i just spoke with hinson yesterday they said its 240 and motoworks are 699

[Blizzard24]

Originally posted by Mr. Big Time
The entire clutch assembly from Hinson, is $1200, thats with out the plates, and motoworks is $700-800, without the plates.

$1200? is that for the pressure plate/hub/ basket or what? I just got the basket and it was only $239...
The entire assembly was $699 from Motoworks.

[TNT]

Originally posted by Blizzard24
I spoke to Ron Hinson and asked him how long it would be to get this done, he told me two days, three max. I sent the basket to them w a note and two days later they called for payment info and I will be getting the new basket tomorrow. The difference is it is machined from billet aluminum, not cast aluminum and like all their clutch baskets it is then akadized to increase strength even more.

This is directly from Hinson regarding their baskets
-Precision machined from billet T-6 aircraft quality aluminum to aerospace tolerances, and Akadized for five times the wear resistance to stock* (*with proper maintenance)


As for oil, I have always used Mobil 1 for bikes and prior to that Bel Ray Superbike synthetic... never had clutch issues due to being too slippery. Mobil 1 in all my vehicles now though.

Truth of the matter is a casting will work just fine in this application and anodizing is a waste of money. I checked Mil Hand Book 5 or MMPDS-01 (U guys can get this online goggle it and see for yourself. You look under Aluminum "Plate" and "Castings" in Ch 3....7050 plate good for machining, 200/300 series casting's....look at the table Ftu=tensile strength, Fsu= shear strength, Fbu=bearing (fastener tear out)...you will see around a 15-20% drop since casting's are more pourous. Clutch baskets are not fatigue critical if they were a casting won't work. Casting shear(su) is about 36, 000 lb per square inch vs plate(billet) 43KSI, tension 60ksi vs billet 74KSI....

Alkadized? or Anodized is a surface treatment that strengths the surface to protect against the elements usually, scratches, can be colored, clutch basket are not exposed to weather.....Aluminum gets it's internal strength by tempering. Typical aircraft temper for this case 7050-T6, solution heat treat, artificially aged.

Be carefull about high prices for billet(plate, forged) parts especially cosmetic ones like levers, etc....not worth it, these days casting are strong enough less expensive to produce.

[Blizzard24]

Originally posted by TNT1
Truth of the matter is a casting will work just fine in this application and anodizing is a waste of money. I checked Mil Hand Book 5 or MMPDS-01 (U guys can get this online goggle it and see for yourself. You look under Aluminum "Plate" and "Castings" in Ch 3....7050 plate good for machining, 200/300 series casting's....look at the table Ftu=tensile strength, Fsu= shear strength, Fbu=bearing (fastener tear out)...you will see around a 15-20% drop since casting's are more pourous. Clutch baskets are not fatigue critical if they were a casting won't work. Casting shear(su) is about 36, 000 lb per square inch vs plate(billet) 43KSI, tension 60ksi vs billet 74KSI....

Alkadized? or Anodized is a surface treatment that strengths the surface to protect against the elements usually, scratches, can be colored, clutch basket are not exposed to weather.....Aluminum gets it's internal strength by tempering. Typical aircraft temper for this case 7050-T6, solution heat treat, artificially aged.

Be carefull about high prices for billet(plate, forged) parts especially cosmetic ones like levers, etc....not worth it, these days casting are strong enough less expensive to produce.

Obviously this casting isnt working just fine or the clutch baskets wouldnt be grenading
As for the Akodizing... it is different than anodizing all together...
MICRO-HARDNESS TESTING
OF BANADISED (AKADIZED) ALUMINUM

Background:
A knoop hardness test was run by Eagle-Picker on aluminum samples Banadized (Akadized) at Lovatt in January, 1983. The objective was to compare untreated samples with those that had been Banadized (Akadized). The hardness of any material coating is directly related to the compression abilities of the substrate material. However, the compressive characteristics of the coating itself as well as the interaction between the coating and the substrate (through conversion of the material microstructure) will produce a relative hardness differential between the coated and the uncoated material. Lovatt felt the relative change in the material hardness characteristics could provide a useful piece of information for the applications engineer.

Conclusions:
The study results indicate an increase of the "relative" material hardness for Type 6061 Aluminum Alloy of 367 to 505 percent with the Banadized (Akadized) coating.
The study also indicates an increase of 201 percent for the "relative" material hardness of Type 7075 Aluminum Alloy with the Banadized (Akadized) coating.
A determination was not made for the "relative" change of the SXA (Metal Matrix Composite) specimens. The only uncoated sample available for the test was too warped to make a good hardness determination.

[TNT]

Originally posted by Blizzard24
Obviously this casting isnt working just fine or the clutch baskets wouldnt be grenading
As for the Akodizing... it is different than anodizing all together...
MICRO-HARDNESS TESTING
OF BANADISED (AKADIZED) ALUMINUM

Background:
A knoop hardness test was run by Eagle-Picker on aluminum samples Banadized (Akadized) at Lovatt in January, 1983. The objective was to compare untreated samples with those that had been Banadized (Akadized). The hardness of any material coating is directly related to the compression abilities of the substrate material. However, the compressive characteristics of the coating itself as well as the interaction between the coating and the substrate (through conversion of the material microstructure) will produce a relative hardness differential between the coated and the uncoated material. Lovatt felt the relative change in the material hardness characteristics could provide a useful piece of information for the applications engineer.

Conclusions:
The study results indicate an increase of the "relative" material hardness for Type 6061 Aluminum Alloy of 367 to 505 percent with the Banadized (Akadized) coating.
The study also indicates an increase of 201 percent for the "relative" material hardness of Type 7075 Aluminum Alloy with the Banadized (Akadized) coating.
A determination was not made for the "relative" change of the SXA (Metal Matrix Composite) specimens. The only uncoated sample available for the test was too warped to make a good hardness determination.

Blizzard it's not obvious a casting is the failure point causing some baskets to fail…..Only way to really determine that would be to cycle the entire assembly on a test fixture until it fails. Casted clutch baskets are the preferred choice all throughout the automotive and quad industry, they work just fine. We’re not seeing 100% failure rate either and even if we were that doesn’t mean it’s the casting. I can design a part in this application from a block of plate (billet) to fail too. There are so many other contributing factors, such as heat, unknowns for the ones that fail is were they adjust correctly, was there plate slippage or sticking, was the correct oil being used, etc……The owners manual recommends a oil for this clutch design. It considers the heat, material, friction, lubrication required, and if someone chooses to deviate from what the engineers have determined they better know what they are doing or suffer the consequences. We are missing info here to make a determination that it's the casting.

They have changed the 08 cover on the 09 to get more oil circulation and we do not have enough time on the clutch to see if that fixed the problem, but without the proper lubrication thermal fatigue could cause failure and the outer basket would be the first to go for sure. I am closely monitoring my 09 clutch using the recommended oil, keeping it adjusted properly, watching the plates and baskets and I have the same casted baskets as the 2008. Now you can go spend $300-$1200 if you like, but it may be a waste of your money. Of course everyone is going to say Can Am did not fix the clutch so they can sell parts but they don’t know they are just guessing.

As far as alkalized, like I said a waste of money. Clutch baskets don’t need a lot of compressive surface strength and this wear surface hardening depends on compression, aluminum is no good in compression. If we did need compression and surface strength we would use steel such as the gear riveted to the basket. This clutch is primarily in tension, shear, and bearing on the rivets. If this clutch basket is going to fail it will more than likely be in bearing or shear at the rivets in the web, that’s where the cross-section is weakest due to the hole, and that will be the case for billet too.

If you guys want to buy a new clutch I’d recommend you purchase the entire assembly (inner, outer, cover, plates) so there are no after market mismatches to the stock parts. It could be cast or billet it won’t really matter if the entire assembly is designed and maintained properly.

Trust me I'm a Aerospace Engineer been designing structure/mechanical the past 25 years :D

[Blizzard24]

I would rather waste my money and have piece of mind that I will not be destroying a bottom end due to a design flaw or materials issue, I have an 08, they obviously found enough of a problem to redesign the basket/cover for 09, to me that says something.

I may not be a aerospace engineer but I have been around ATVs for 20+ years and have had my share of high performance atvs and none of them had clutch basket issues like what is being seen on the DS450.

[TNT]

Originally posted by Blizzard24
I would rather waste my money and have piece of mind that I will not be destroying a bottom end due to a design flaw or materials issue, I have an 08, they obviously found enough of a problem to redesign the basket/cover for 09, to me that says something.

I may not be a aerospace engineer but I have been around ATVs for 20+ years and have had my share of high performance atvs and none of them had clutch basket issues like what is being seen on the DS450.

They didn't redesign the clutch basket I checked part numbers 6259854 cast aluminum they are the same and like you said ROTAX Engineers are not stupid with 08 history and would not want to pay for six months of warranted claims on ALL the released 09's in the market if they thought the basket had a design flaw and it would made out of billet if they thought it necessary, the cost billet vs casting over so many units equals out over time.....they did redesign the cover to prevent oil fogging, get more to the upper assy, a $45 part.

Just curious what people are saying they think is the cause of the basket failures and how the Hinson basket solves it and pro-longs the life of the clutch basket, hub, and plates? I'm just trying to get to the bottom of this before we spend $1200, not start a debate. We can't determine a cost effective fix until we fully understand the problem? We don't have enough info on 09 ROTAX's fix to say it's still broken and the cover is interchangable with the 08.

I only have 1 hour on the 09 stock clutch and it is holding up just fine, normally we fry the clutch plates at that point on our high performance YAM that tells me the DS design is handling the load on the assy well so far but I need a little more time to make a determination.

I've been around the block a little myself, quad, auto, aircraft, and seen alot of ppl out there buying things they don't need just because some sales guy says so.

[TNT]

For those sticking with the stock clutch and/or swapping out the cover keep an eye on the web of basket if you see hairline cracks around the rivet holes or anywhere on any basket cast or billet get it NDI or replace it. NDI, Ultrasonic Inspect or Magnetic Particle Inspected. Most large cities have this for around $50 or the stock basket cost around $150-$200 new just replace it mid-season for greater peace of mind....Use the recommended oil and keep the lever 3/8 to 5/8 play.

[atvlover]

Hello all. Johnny with Motoworks. Just to clarify a few things about the clutch baskets. Our entire assembly is 699. This is all three parts of the basket. We also sell just the basket for $220.00. I would recommend replacing all three pieces. The inner hub has caused as many problems as the basket. The plates wear into the metal and bind. When the plates bind they break and cause the basket to break.

[kellymi]

Johnny is this mainly a problem on modified engines? Or is it also a problem on stock engines? On a stock engine would we be fine to just replace the basket?

[Mr. Big Time]

This is a problem with stock engines as well. It is recommended to change all 3 peices, but I guess switching the basket is better than nothing .

I talked to Johnny about it last week.

[Blizzard24]

I have spoken to a few people that have run just the basket for a full race season with no problems, I am sure replacing everything would be better but the aftermarket basket alone seems to be holding up.

[maconu]

Is there any benefit to replacing all 3 pieces other than piece of mind? (clutch feel....)

[nvrpmx]

yes the stock hub also wears causing the steel plates to bind and not release smoothly and the inner plate will also wear a grove in it.The motoworks 3 piece is the way to go for sure it fixs all the problems that they were having with the clutchs on the race teams quads.Trust me if it works in Fredericks,Lawsons,and Smiths it should work in most anyones these guys wont ride without the three piece installed in there quads.

[TNT]

I finally got the September 26, 2008 service bulletin and new parts in front of me, the stock 08 hub has been redesigned(remachined deeper) with new clutch plates that have rounded corners that are installed a certain way to prevent binding with the inner hub and breaking and basket failure....an additional plate has been added that sits up against the hub w/the rounded corner, the rest of the rounded corner plates get inverted toward the drum/basket. The cover has a new oil hole too...This 09 design fixes the problem and has NO history of failure, the parts can be used on the 08's.