"Obama's Carbon Ultimatum" -

[ATVsToday.net]

Please don't vote for this man. Gas prices will skyrocket. He opposes drilling, as does Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi. Plus read the story below.

"Obama's Carbon Ultimatum" -

From the Wall Street Journal - October 20, 2008


"For years, Democrats -- including Senator Obama
-- have been howling about the 'politicization' of

the EPA, which has nominally been part of the Bush

Administration.

The complaint has been that the White House blocked
EPA bureaucrats from making the so-called
'endangerment finding' on carbon.

Now it turns out that a President Obama would
himself wield such a finding as a political
bludgeon.

He plans to issue an ultimatum to Congress:
Either impose new taxes and limits on carbon
that he finds amenable, or the EPA carbon
police will be let loose to ravage the
countryside." -- The Wall Street Journal



"Obama's Carbon Ultimatum"

Wall Street Journal Editorial -- October 20, 2008

Liberals pretend that only President Bush is
preventing the U.S. from adopting some global
warming "solution." But occasionally their mask

slips. As Barack Obama's energy adviser has now

made clear, the would-be President intends to
blackmail -- or rather, greenmail -- Congress into

falling in line with his climate agenda.

Jason Grumet is currently executive director of an

outfit called the National Commission on Energy

Policy and one of Mr. Obama's key policy aides. In

an interview last week with Bloomberg, Mr. Grumet

said that come January the Environmental
Protection Agency "would initiate those
rulemakings" that classify carbon as a dangerous

pollutant under current clean air laws.

That move would impose new regulation and taxes
across the entire economy, something that is usually
the purview of Congress. Mr. Grumet warned that "in

the absence of Congressional action" 18 months
after Mr. Obama's inauguration, the EPA would move

ahead with its own unilateral carbon crackdown
anyway.

Well, well. For years, Democrats -- including
Senator Obama -- have been howling about the
"politicization" of the EPA, which has nominally

been part of the Bush Administration.

The complaint has been that the White House blocked

EPA bureaucrats from making the so-called
"endangerment finding" on carbon. Now it turns out

that a President Obama would himself wield such a

finding as a political bludgeon.

He plans to issue an ultimatum to Congress: Either
impose new taxes and limits on carbon that he finds
amenable, or the EPA carbon police will be let loose
to ravage the countryside.

The EPA hasn't made a secret of how it would like

to centrally plan the U.S. economy under the 1970

Clean Air Act. In a blueprint released in July,
the agency didn't exactly say it'd collectivize

the farms -- but pretty close, down to the "grass

clippings."

The EPA would monitor and regulate the
carbon emissions of "lawn and garden equipment" as

well as everything with an engine, like cars,
planes and boats. Eco-bureaucrats envision
thousands of other emissions limits on all types

of energy.

Coal-fired power and other fossil fuels
would be ruled out of existence, while all other

prices would rise as the huge economic costs of

the new regime were passed down the energy chain

to consumers.

These costs would far exceed the burden of a
straight carbon tax or cap-and-trade system
enacted by Congress, because the Clean Air Act was

never written to apply to carbon and other
greenhouse gases.

It's like trying to do brain surgery with a butter knife.
Mr. Obama wants to move ahead anyway because
he knows that the costs of any carbon program will
be high. He knows, too, that Congress -- even with
strongly Democratic majorities -- might still balk at
supporting tax increases on their constituents, even
if it is done in the name of global warming.

Climate-change politics don't break cleanly along

partisan lines. The burden of a carbon clampdown

will fall disproportionately on some states over

others, especially the 25 interior states that get

more than 50% of their electricity from coal.

Rustbelt manufacturing states like Ohio, Michigan

and Pennsylvania will get hit hard too. Once
President Bush leaves office, the coastal
Democrats pushing hardest for a climate change
program might find their colleagues splitting off,

especially after they vote for a huge tax increase

on incomes.

Thus Messrs. Obama and Grumet want to invoke a
political deus ex machina driven by a faulty
interpretation of the Clean Air Act to force
Congress's hand.

Mr. Obama and Democrats can then
tell Americans that Congress must act to tax and

regulate carbon to save the country from even
worse bureaucratic consequences. It's Mr. Obama's

version of Jack Benny's old "your money or your

life" routine, but without the punch line.

The strategy is most notable for what it says
about the climate-change lobby and its new
standard bearer. Supposedly global warming is the

transcendent challenge of the age, but Mr. Obama

evidently doesn't believe he'll be able to
convince his own party to do something about it

without a bureaucratic ultimatum.

Mr. Grumet justified it this way: "The U.S. has to
move quickly domestically ... We cannot have a
meaningful impact in the international discussion

until we develop a meaningful domestic consensus."

Normally a democracy reaches consensus through
political debate and persuasion, but apparently

for Mr. Obama that option is merely a nuisance.

It's another example of "change" you'll be given

no choice but to believe in.

[Outlaw 50]

None of this is surprising and I doubt that everything is being covered in this article. I think, from reading Obama's plans and listening to him speak that he will use every and any method to try and gain control of the citizens of this nation.

[reptikes]

Global Warming poses the biggest threat to planet earth today. A bigger threat than Terrorism, Uranium Enrichment, ect. The only thing that poses that kind of threat to the world today would be John McCain!:eek2: :eek: :eek2: :( :eek: :eek2: :( :ermm:

[tree11]

the globe is going to get real warm if bomba gets elected.
it will be the beginning of world war 3.
everyone is stocking up on guns and ammo as we speak.
does anyone have a 12 gauge shot gun for sale?:macho

[deathman53]

hey guys, get the facts here, golabal warming is a natural cycle. Global warming has been starting since the cave man days. Lots of stuff in nature pollute the earth far more than man in the last 200 years has. Man has something like a 2% effect on global warming. The fact that the greens don't talk about it is that the sun is moving closer to the eath, thus making the earth warmer. In the late 1800's a volcano erupted in indonesia(sp), toba, I think. It blackened the sky and sent the earth into a period of several years of record cold.

Several times this has happened before, each followed by long periods of cold. What we can blame more for the increasing carbon is the cutting down of the rain forests in s. america and other places on earth. The united states lost alot of its forest over the past 200 years, europe, africa and asia, thats alot of carbon reduction lost here. AS of right now, the rain forests in S. America change something like 30% of the carbon to oxygen, as they get cut down more and more, that number goes down. The facts about global warming is greatly disputed its split even wheather man has a big effect or not. Think about this, the ice sheets started melting in the days of the cave men, they didn't have gas engines or any signifigant carbon producing means. So then who is to blame for the global warming, there was lots of forests and plants to change it to oxygen, also. Yes, mans activity now has an effect, but not nearly as much as greens want to think.

Also, if obama gets in and blackmails congress to do this, whats gonna stop the second and third biggest oil consumers(china and india) to clean their act, both countries practices are far dirtier than ours and don't have any standards of almost any type. Obama truly is scary, he thinks idealistic, but doesn't put the math together for it all to work. If anything obama will drive the country into further recession and may even be third anti-christ(the bibles and prophecy sources are real close to his description).

[ATVsToday.net]

Yes the Bible prophecy is scary. Remember too,if Obama is elected he will have control of both houses of congress. the judicial branch will go along, and the media, which is already in the tank for him, and he'll be commander and chief of the military. All this power in the hands of one man. Can you say dictator.

[<DRS>GPF]

Originally posted by ATVsToday.net
Yes the Bible prophecy is scary. Remember too,if Obama is elected he will have control of both houses of congress. the judicial branch will go along, and the media, which is already in the tank for him, and he'll be commander and chief of the military. All this power in the hands of one man. Can you say dictator.

i know!!! :eek2: :eek2:


itll be just like 2000 to 2006 when it was a republican majority!! only different!!:rolleyes:

[<DRS>GPF]

Originally posted by deathman53
and may even be third anti-christ(the bibles and prophecy sources are real close to his description).


LOL!!!


umm... which exact ones? and who's version of "the bible"?

[Pappy]

Originally posted by <DRS>GPF



itll be just like 2000 to 2006 when it was a republican majority!! only different!!:rolleyes:

Incorrect to a point, the dem's have had a majority since 2000 if you look at the votes on the issues , and an overwhelming majority in both the senate and in congress since 06. They have held a majority in the senate since before 2000 if I remember correctly. Problem is, they (rep and dem) cant get a damn thing accomplished)

All of which means what...they(our congress and senate) havent done anything for the country in a positive way. Their approval ratings continue to be lower the Bush's which shows why they so desperatly need Obama...he can fix everything:o The left wing doesnt know what to do when they get power, they are just happy in the fact they have it...LMFAO

Global warming.....the dems wont need that crutch if Obama wins, they wont have the need for panic and fear to get votes or have a need to attach a ton of pork barrel spending to every global warming measure that they do pass because they wont have a need, they will be able to pass what ever they like without trying to hide it:chinese:

Global Warming= Al Gore and a Polar Bear, both of which are still doing pretty good even after the surge of fear that they both might disappear:blah:

[Pappy]

BTW DRS...which candidate would you say made this statement regarding farm subsidies and voted to support subsidies? I know this a pet peeve issue of yours! lol



"It provides a strong safety net for farmers, and gives them the certainty needed in a sector that provides an important human resource — food — amidst the unpredictable dynamics of weather and markets," Blank said."

Originally posted by <DRS>GPF
LOL!!!


umm... which exact ones? and who's version of "the bible"?

It says that the anti-christ will be pro-abortion. Obama is pro-abortion.

It says that he will disguise himself as a savior to gain peoples trust and create a group of followers. Sounds similar, huh? Plus Obama has said a couple times he thinks he's been sent for us.

It says he will come on a white horse.. it just happens his mother is white.

Add up all the letters in his name and divide by 3. You get 666

The bible also says in the end times nations will rise against nations, churches will be divided, parents will turn on their children, and children on parents, this is when the antichrist will rise up. He won't be evil, he will be very likeable and say anything you want to hear. You will not know it is him until ITS TOO LATE.

Mabus will finish his term on 2012, predicted by the Mayas to be the end of the world.

I can go on and on. Now I don't 100% believe this, but I do think it's a distinct possibilty. He's one scary MOFO

[deathman53]

nostrodomos has wrote in his "lost" book a picture of end of days. It show the alignment of the planets, the muslim star and symbols for other stuff. Repsenting the end of days will involve the aligment of the planets(dec 21 2012), muslim and christain war and a figure that takes control of masses. Part of it is englaved in stone on his house in france.. This should familar???

[ATVsToday.net]

WOW, you blew me away,a lot of that i did not know.
He's pro abortion, but if an infant survives an abortion
he doesn't want to give it any medical treatment, just let it die. This happened in Illinois, when he was a state Senator.

[<DRS>GPF]

Originally posted by DMC-4OOEX
It says that the anti-christ will be pro-abortion. Obama is pro-abortion.

It says that he will disguise himself as a savior to gain peoples trust and create a group of followers. Sounds similar, huh? Plus Obama has said a couple times he thinks he's been sent for us.

It says he will come on a white horse.. it just happens his mother is white.

Add up all the letters in his name and divide by 3. You get 666

The bible also says in the end times nations will rise against nations, churches will be divided, parents will turn on their children, and children on parents, this is when the antichrist will rise up. He won't be evil, he will be very likeable and say anything you want to hear. You will not know it is him until ITS TOO LATE.

Mabus will finish his term on 2012, predicted by the Mayas to be the end of the world.

I can go on and on. Now I don't 100% believe this, but I do think it's a distinct possibilty. He's one scary MOFO



im still waiting on the specific passages and which translation provided this "prediction"..

dont buy into religious zelots and their horrid misinterpretations with a side order of "fearism"..

[<DRS>GPF]

Originally posted by ATVsToday.net
WOW, you blew me away,a lot of that i did not know.
He's pro abortion, but if an infant survives an abortion
he doesn't want to give it any medical treatment, just let it die. This happened in Illinois, when he was a state Senator.


thats from reading with eyes wide shut...


it was a vote to provide additional medical services along with what was already standing there..

theres already qualified staff present, why have the public pay for more?

[<DRS>GPF]

Originally posted by Pappy
BTW DRS...which candidate would you say made this statement regarding farm subsidies and voted to support subsidies? I know this a pet peeve issue of yours! lol



"It provides a strong safety net for farmers, and gives them the certainty needed in a sector that provides an important human resource — food — amidst the unpredictable dynamics of weather and markets," Blank said."


youre exacly right.. i saw the very interview when he said it and i was not pleased. but this is a "staple" of the DNC, so i didnt expect much of a change there..

keep in mind, i wanted thompson, then huckabee.. i mightve even went with McCain if he'd only shown himself as a stronger(less pandering) politician.. picking Palin was the "icing on the cake" for me voting any way but their way..

now... IMO, between these 2 fools.. if i wanted one to win more than the other, itll have to be nObama over McCrybaby.

in fact, im so sure that people are so fed up with republican rule, that id be willing to make a friendly wager with you Pappy.

if McCain wins, ill buy a 1yr membership to NRA (https://membership.nrahq.org/forms/signup.asp). (youve heard my thoughts about the NRA)
if Obama wins, i want you to donate the $25 option to Defenders of the Wildlife. (https://secure.defenders.org/site/Donation?ACTION=SHOW_DONATION_OPTIONS&CAMPAIGN_ID=1445&s_src=WKY09WDJOIN&s_subsrc=WKY09WDJOIN_web&JServSessionIdr002=2xqmgwhkj1.app23a) (theyll even give you a windbreaker, woot!!)


are you game?

[Pappy]

1st, I am a lifetime member to the NRA and already contribute to wildlife funds through many organizations, none of which de-cry hunting to be abolished. Isnt Defenders of Wildlife, a left wing radical group who is always under fire for mismanaging their monies and are even highly suspected of abusing its tax free status to pursue its political motives? Or am I lumping them with the majority of other groups. Unlike Obama, I actually take a stand on morals, not on which topic will best serve my political needs. (you can assign most any political person in place of Obamas name) So I will have to decline your wager.

Obama is the best candidate i've ever seen when it comes to riding the fence and covering his ***. It will more then likely win him the election. "A mile wide and an inch thick" describes Obama to a tee!

2nd, Obamas arguement wasnt about the medical cost, it was about the issue of killing a born child.

"NRLC objects. They point to evidence that SB 1082, the bill Obama voted against in committee, was amended to contain a "neutrality clause" that is identical to one contained in the federal law. (The Illinois government's legislative information Web site shows the proposed amendment, but doesn't give results for votes in committee. NRLC's documents show that the amendment was adopted.) Since he voted against the state bill, NRLC says, his claimed worry about Roe v. Wade is a smokescreen, intended to cover up his unconcern with the protection of infant lives.
In the NRLC white paper, Legislative Director Douglas Johnson writes that Obama "really did object to a bill merely because it defended the proposition, 'A live child born as a result of an abortion shall be fully recognized as a human person and accorded immediate protection under the law.' And it is that reality that he now desperately wants to conceal from the eyes of the public."

I cant find any proof of him stating anything regarding tax payer money and the abortion issue regarding SB 1082

My qoute of the day:

"I will keep my money,freedom and guns, you can keep the change!"

[Cindi]

Originally posted by deathman53
nostrodomos has wrote in his "lost" book a picture of end of days. It show the alignment of the planets, the muslim star and symbols for other stuff. Repsenting the end of days will involve the aligment of the planets(dec 21 2012), muslim and christain war and a figure that takes control of masses. Part of it is englaved in stone on his house in france.. This should familar???

There was also something that says "He will wear a blue hat" That would be a democrat!!!!!

McCain is getting my vote!

Cindi

[440racer66]

obama 08.

[<DRS>GPF]

Originally posted by Pappy
1st, I am a lifetime member to the NRA and already contribute to wildlife funds through many organizations, none of which de-cry hunting to be abolished. Isnt Defenders of Wildlife, a left wing radical group who is always under fire for mismanaging their monies and are even highly suspected of abusing its tax free status to pursue its political motives? Or am I lumping them with the majority of other groups. Unlike Obama, I actually take a stand on morals, not on which topic will best serve my political needs. (you can assign most any political person in place of Obamas name) So I will have to decline your wager.

Obama is the best candidate i've ever seen when it comes to riding the fence and covering his ***. It will more then likely win him the election. "A mile wide and an inch thick" describes Obama to a tee!

2nd, Obamas arguement wasnt about the medical cost, it was about the issue of killing a born child.

"NRLC objects. They point to evidence that SB 1082, the bill Obama voted against in committee, was amended to contain a "neutrality clause" that is identical to one contained in the federal law. (The Illinois government's legislative information Web site shows the proposed amendment, but doesn't give results for votes in committee. NRLC's documents show that the amendment was adopted.) Since he voted against the state bill, NRLC says, his claimed worry about Roe v. Wade is a smokescreen, intended to cover up his unconcern with the protection of infant lives.
In the NRLC white paper, Legislative Director Douglas Johnson writes that Obama "really did object to a bill merely because it defended the proposition, 'A live child born as a result of an abortion shall be fully recognized as a human person and accorded immediate protection under the law.' And it is that reality that he now desperately wants to conceal from the eyes of the public."

I cant find any proof of him stating anything regarding tax payer money and the abortion issue regarding SB 1082

My qoute of the day:

"I will keep my money,freedom and guns, you can keep the change!"

While I wont debate you about the poitical goals of the NRA, I would simply say that IMO they are as far right as DoW is left.

sample of a few goals: http://live.defenders.org/resources/publications/programs_and_policy/habitat_conservation/private_lands/agriculture_and_conservation/defenders'_2007_farm_bill_priorities.pdf

id think that both organizations have skeletons in their closets, but alternaively both do have good intentions with many of their programs.

and i dont follow the implication by this comment: QUOTE]Originally posted by Pappy
I actually take a stand on morals, not on which topic will best serve my political needs.[/i][/QUOTE]

if thats true then why vote at all?.. its always a "lesser of the evils.. who will do less damage in a a 4yr span? [who's more likely to create financial prosperity for the masses?[/i]

i can see where we've been.. i also can see where some would keep us going.


as for the NRLC, correct me if im wrong but arent they a rully right leaning organization who chastizes anybody that is pro-RvW..
Factcheck.org has info related to this subject: http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/obama_and_infanticide.html

[Pappy]

Not voting is just as bad as voting without intelligence. I will vote the lessor of two evils until I am faced with candidates that actually do their job as one will usually provide less of a threat to the way of life I feel I want to support.

The NRA has moved more to the right, merely to combat the extreme left that is attacking my right to own a firearm. The NRA hasnt moved to the far right to gain more power over the 2nd Amendmen or change it....I see this as a huge difference.

I am a firm believer of living as close to the bill of rights as possible without molding them into what ever side of a political party may say....thats EITHER party.

When we have candidates on the ballot that can actually make real change happen without taxing me into oblivion, support my civil rights and protect the consitution and bill of rights..well...then we will have something to debate regarding which is best....until then, we need only to look back at the last 4 elections to see that neither party can seem to come up with those candidates. McCain will most likely not move us in any direction radically, I cant say the same for Obama....can you?

How this relates to my morals, well look no further then Obamas last 20 year influence by Rev Wright. Obama claims to have never heard his radical anti- white-anti-jewish-anti-american views or that he was in anyway pursueded by them. Obama cut his ties after it was shown to hurt his political ambitions, and threw his church under the bus for what, political gain. A man with morals and true conviction would have taken a stand, not walk away only after they saw no gain for a political goal. He could have denounced the churchs views or supported them...IMO by remaining in the church for 20 years, he accepted them and what they stand for. I will argue that Rev Wright has the freedom to say what he says, but will not tolerate someone who runs at the first sign of trouble when the only reason for leaving is to protect his career! This is a sign of weakness, and that his moral judgement may be flawed severely.

This is but one issue I have, but it tells me alot about who the real Obama is. If I closed my eyes and listened to Obama speak, I could easily get onboard as it all sounds great(except his socialist views, even my ears can pick up on that) What I cant do is support a man that has an underlying hatred towards this country, eyes shut or not. He is doing what it takes to win, regardless of his life history and expierences, and to try and convince me otherwise will not succeed. This is my view, others are free to theirs.

(And before someone claims my "eyes shut" comment proves racism, I am refering to not looking for under lying reasons as why to not believe what the man has to say. I would love to see a leader, I could give a ratts *** about his color, that can lead without swaying from side to side when it suits his career. That man or woman would have my vote)

[<DRS>GPF]

Originally posted by Pappy
How this relates to my morals, well look no further then Obamas last 20 year influence by Rev Wright. Obama claims to have never heard his radical anti- white-anti-jewish-anti-american views or that he was in anyway pursueded by them. Obama cut his ties after it was shown to hurt his political ambitions, and threw his church under the bus for what, political gain. A man with morals and true conviction would have taken a stand, not walk away only after they saw no gain for a political goal. He could have denounced the churchs views or supported them...IMO by remaining in the church for 20 years, he accepted them and what they stand for. I will argue that Rev Wright has the freedom to say what he says, but will not tolerate someone who runs at the first sign of trouble when the only reason for leaving is to protect his career! This is a sign of weakness, and that his moral judgement may be flawed severely.


but McCain is far from a "moral" person.. one of many links to the story of his infidelity.. (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1024927/The-wife-John-McCain-callously-left-behind.html)
why would you trust this guy more than the other, knowing his basic moral fiber allowed him to dump his dedicated wife of 30yrs for "greener grass".. they were dating before he was even divorced.

and as for someone who holds to their convictions, even you've said McCain "flip/flops".. here's more proof of his moral convictions, or lack thereof..

he's had plenty and all seem to be for political gains. (http://therealmccain.com/)

yove mentioned rev. wright with reference to obama, but forget to mention wacko rev. falwell and his on again/off again relationship with mccain. again.. for political gain..

im sure ill never convince you otherwise, nor you likewise convincing me otherwise..(though i wished youd taken the bet)
IMO, the best candidates never had a chance because they arent dirty enough to get in with the rest of the pigs.. as usual..

oh well, the voters will decide tomorrow, then you and i will need to find something else to banter about.. preferably not politics.

[Pappy]

I see McCains ex-wife fully endorsing him, and after living through two divorces, I say that speaks volumes regardless of media spin.


Oh if Obama wins, you will see just how much people can *****, and when he cant deliver or starts showing his true colors.....there will be much discussion:devil:

[Rastus]

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(Obama, insert foot into mouth) If I had a dollar every time Biden has stepped on his own johnson when he has said something, I would be a very rich person.


And with regards to the voters deciding the election, you mean with the help of all the dead people, illegals, felons, etc. that Daley and ACORN are using ? :ermm:

[GrowinupMX]

Originally posted by Rastus
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(Obama, insert foot into mouth) If I had a dollar every time Biden has stepped on his own johnson when he has said something, I would be a very rich person.


And with regards to the voters deciding the election, you mean with the help of all the dead people, illegals, felons, etc. that Daley and ACORN are using ? :ermm:
You nailed it 100%....Biden" Stand up Chuck, let them see you"
Chuck is in a wheelchair Senator Biben. LMAO!!

[Ruby Soho]

Originally posted by DMC-4OOEX
It says that the anti-christ will be pro-abortion. Obama is pro-abortion.

It says that he will disguise himself as a savior to gain peoples trust and create a group of followers. Sounds similar, huh? Plus Obama has said a couple times he thinks he's been sent for us.

It says he will come on a white horse.. it just happens his mother is white.

Add up all the letters in his name and divide by 3. You get 666

The bible also says in the end times nations will rise against nations, churches will be divided, parents will turn on their children, and children on parents, this is when the antichrist will rise up. He won't be evil, he will be very likeable and say anything you want to hear. You will not know it is him until ITS TOO LATE.

Mabus will finish his term on 2012, predicted by the Mayas to be the end of the world.

I can go on and on. Now I don't 100% believe this, but I do think it's a distinct possibilty. He's one scary MOFO

do you honestly think that hes the "antichrist".

people who believe this have to be kidding me, how could he possibly get into the government? theres no possible way he could pull anything like that off. not possible. people are just making up excuses because some of them honestly don't like his views, and need **** on him, and others are just racist making up bull**** like this.

Originally posted by Ruby Soho
do you honestly think that hes the "antichrist".

people who believe this have to be kidding me, how could he possibly get into the government? theres no possible way he could pull anything like that off. not possible. people are just making up excuses because some of them honestly don't like his views, and need **** on him, and others are just racist making up bull**** like this.

I didn't say I really believe it.. but im not ruling it out as a possibility.

I mean, the fact that he got this far means nothing. Not many people in America actually study their religion. Just attend church and not really do much else. So they wouldn't realize all of this. Plus, not everyone is that religious, they wouldn't know a damn difference.

Remember, the Antichrist will come as a deceiver.

haha

http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj126/Hondamaster5505/change.gif