Can anybody guess what motor this is?

[protraxrptr17]

I'm done with the 525 I guess. It was an awesome motor, but I found a smokin deal on this one. I'm gonna put the 525 in my ridin buddy's YFZ. This ones just kinda sitting in there right now, I still have to fab up new mounts and machine new spacers, but I just had to take a couple pictures. Still waiting on a headpipe too.

[protraxrptr17]

Other side

[woodsracer144]

whats the deal with the front upper shock mounts?

[yellowzo3]

ktm 505? nice bike also!

[protraxrptr17]

You're close. It's a '07 450sx-f. I wanted a 505, but they are pretty scarce.

I moved the shock mounts out on the frame and the a-arms to allow more stroke from the shock. I also machined adjustable clevises so I can adjust the height of my frame at full compression. Its like a step above your average long-travel front end. The shocks have 7.5" of shaft travel and 15" of wheel travel.
Here's a pic from the front.

[yellowzo3]

ahhh 450 haha... why the change? i know you said you got a good deal on this one but the 525 must have been NICE to have under the seat... where do you find these motors at lol... i look around once in a while and only find a couple on ebay here and there. please keep us updated on the build up too!

[woodsracer144]

what are all the mods what chassie is that? thanks

[rob-u/21]

You must be a pretty good fabricator. What is the deal with the tie-rod looking piece in your rear brake system?

[protraxrptr17]

Originally posted by rob-u/21
You must be a pretty good fabricator. What is the deal with the tie-rod looking piece in your rear brake system?

Good observation, I used to try to keep it a secret, but I guess I can let the cat out of the bag. The brake plate isn't connected to the carrier. Its connected to the frame by the tie rod. When you hit the brake, the swingarm goes up, taking pressure off the tires. It lets you get the rearend broke loose without loosing too much speed. It also lowers the whole bike when you hit the rear brake. It helps when going into a turn really hot, and your front end dives. You can hit the rear brake and level it out. You'd really have to ride it or see it work to understand it. It also helps when trying to drop your frontend in the air. By far the best mod I have done to my bike. I also invented the idea (for what its worth, if somebody copies it). If you'll search my posts, I posted some pics of this frame back in '05 when I chopped it up and moved everything. Look at the design of my rear shock mount. Then go to the home page and look thru the write up on the new KTM. Look at the pics of the rear shock mount. :D Should've got a patent on it.

yellowz03, I broke a valve in the 525. Messed up the head and cylinder. After all the hoopla over the new SX, I had to keep up with the times. I will go on the record and say though, that the old RFS engine is the best four stroke motorcycle/atv engine ever built. Awesome power, light weight, and maximum reliability. Almost no maintenance.

woodsracer, it started life as a 2001 Raptor, but it's so different now, that it really can't be called that anymore. I changed the geometry on everything. I have replaced all the rear part of the frame with my own stuff. The front mounting points for the a-arms are the same. I built the lower arms. The uppers are the "stock" Laegers and so are the spindles. I'm going to build a complete new frame when I get all the suspension like I want it. I pretty well have the front figured out. I'm gonna do the rear after I get this motor in and running. It's gonna be about like the front. No link with as much shaft travel as I can get.

[mitch-#4yfz]

zeb that motor is nice. motor looks like brand new its gonna be faster than a rat on cocaine:eek2:

[protraxrptr17]

I forgot you was a member here.

The 525 is going on one of this guy's bikes. He's gonna be helping me with mine and his. I'm pretty sure nobody has put a 450sx-f on anything and also pretty sure nobody has put a 525 on a YFZ either, so ya'll want to see how it's done? We can put up some pictures and stuff as we go. The 525 YFZ is gonna be pretty tough.

[yellowzo3]

Yes, please post pictures as you go!! I'd love to see how you do both the yfz and the raptor. Oh and props on doing some amazing work! Very clever engineering! :cool:

[protraxrptr17]

OK, after some PMs about my rear brake setup, I have decided to post up some pics and details about how it works. Just remember who invented it, and if somebody copies it I hope all the bad things in life happen to you.

This picture is a crappy camera phone pic (cant find my real camera). On a regular eccentric bearing carrier, the brake plate is kept from spinning around and around the carrier by a peg on the swingarm. I still have the peg, but I cut off the slot on the brake plate so my plate spins freely around the carrier.One end of the tie rod is attached to the brake plate, the other end is attached to a bracket on the frame. When I hit the brake, it tries to rotate forward. The tierod pushes down on the frame or pulls up on the swingarm (how-ever you want to look at it). The picture shows it at full droop, so the caliper is rotated to about 10 o'clock. When its at full compression the caliper comes to about 1:30 or 2.

[yellowzo3]

So this is essentially a floating rear brake, similar to those on mountain bikes, correct?

[protraxrptr17]

I guess, I really don't know much about mountain bikes, but dirt cars have a similar setup that they call "floating the rear brake".

[Dale512]

That's a really cool idea to float the rear brake like that

[woodsracer144]

whats that give you to gain?

[whiteboy84]

i have been thinkin about doin something simmular to that but i do alot of trail riding do u think it would affect that any

[GOTFEAR]

Dam that's brilliant I wished i could have saw this before i did my rebuild over the winter

[jrspawn]

Originally posted by protraxrptr17
Good observation, I used to try to keep it a secret, but I guess I can let the cat out of the bag. The brake plate isn't connected to the carrier. Its connected to the frame by the tie rod. When you hit the brake, the swingarm goes up, taking pressure off the tires. It lets you get the rearend broke loose without loosing too much speed. It also lowers the whole bike when you hit the rear brake. It helps when going into a turn really hot, and your front end dives. You can hit the rear brake and level it out. You'd really have to ride it or see it work to understand it. It also helps when trying to drop your frontend in the air. By far the best mod I have done to my bike. I also invented the idea (for what its worth, if somebody copies it). If you'll search my posts, I posted some pics of this frame back in '05 when I chopped it up and moved everything. Look at the design of my rear shock mount. Then go to the home page and look thru the write up on the new KTM. Look at the pics of the rear shock mount. :D Should've got a patent on it.

yellowz03, I broke a valve in the 525. Messed up the head and cylinder. After all the hoopla over the new SX, I had to keep up with the times. I will go on the record and say though, that the old RFS engine is the best four stroke motorcycle/atv engine ever built. Awesome power, light weight, and maximum reliability. Almost no maintenance.

woodsracer, it started life as a 2001 Raptor, but it's so different now, that it really can't be called that anymore. I changed the geometry on everything. I have replaced all the rear part of the frame with my own stuff. The front mounting points for the a-arms are the same. I built the lower arms. The uppers are the "stock" Laegers and so are the spindles. I'm going to build a complete new frame when I get all the suspension like I want it. I pretty well have the front figured out. I'm gonna do the rear after I get this motor in and running. It's gonna be about like the front. No link with as much shaft travel as I can get.



I just read this post, and forgive me if im wrong but i dont think thats how a floating brake setup is supposed to work.

A floating brake setup is designed to work without having any effect on suspension cycle while braking. The whole theory is to be able to Totally separate braking and suspension forces. If you are having your rear end raise while braking you are loosing suspension travel and should also have a "packing" issue in the rear end.

Like posted the rear floating brake design has been around a very long time. And i wouldnt go as far as saying you invented the idea either. You would be surprised to know of how many other race quads have had and tried a rear floating brake setup.

Justin

[Brad77]

I think the brake concept looks very interesting. I can see how tapping the rear brake with this setup would cause a change in the angle of the swingarm.
I was curious though. With every cycle of the suspension moving up and down the rear brake stay has to rotate on the bearing carrier, right? Wouldn't this cause some serious wear on the carrier or either the brake stay?

[protraxrptr17]

Originally posted by jrspawn
I just read this post, and forgive me if im wrong but i dont think thats how a floating brake setup is supposed to work.

A floating brake setup is designed to work without having any effect on suspension cycle while braking. The whole theory is to be able to Totally separate braking and suspension forces. If you are having your rear end raise while braking you are loosing suspension travel and should also have a "packing" issue in the rear end.

Like posted the rear floating brake design has been around a very long time. And i wouldnt go as far as saying you invented the idea either. You would be surprised to know of how many other race quads have had and tried a rear floating brake setup.

Justin
My design is not supposed to work the way you said.
I didn't want my setup to have neutral effect. It works just the way I wanted it to when the idea came to me. If you can find proof that somebody tried it (on a ATV) before me then I will admit that I didn't think of it first. I really don't care if somebody tried it before me anyway. Nobody is currently marketing it right now. If it is SUPPOSED to have neutral effect and all the others have designed it that way, would I not be the first to design one that compresses the shock under braking?


It does wear on the carrier a little. I've had mine for three years and it is just now starting to get a little slack in it. I have only greased it a few times and was planning on machining a brass bushing to press onto the carrier so I could replace it, but it has lasted so long the way it is, I never got around to it.

[whiteboy84]

is there ne way you can take a pic of the other side of yer braking system thanx bud

[jrspawn]

sounds like you might have taken my post the wrong way bud.

i just wanted to point out the difference of a traditional floating rear brake setup and what you've got going on.

and your right, ive yet to see a setup like yours thats made to intentionally compress the suspension while under braking. kind of backwards of what ive always been taught.

i just cant understand why you would want to compress the rear end( rear actually lifting) while braking. i would think it would bad while braking. let alone going downhill through braking bumps, i would think it would send you over the bars if you got on the brakes then?

justin



Originally posted by protraxrptr17
My design is not supposed to work the way you said.
I didn't want my setup to have neutral effect. It works just the way I wanted it to when the idea came to me. If you can find proof that somebody tried it (on a ATV) before me then I will admit that I didn't think of it first. I really don't care if somebody tried it before me anyway. Nobody is currently marketing it right now. If it is SUPPOSED to have neutral effect and all the others have designed it that way, would I not be the first to design one that compresses the shock under braking?


It does wear on the carrier a little. I've had mine for three years and it is just now starting to get a little slack in it. I have only greased it a few times and was planning on machining a brass bushing to press onto the carrier so I could replace it, but it has lasted so long the way it is, I never got around to it.

[Rootar]

no justin the rear compress actaully drop the seat height when you stomp the rear pedal, your thinking backwards....it really does work awesome ive ridden the bike and from 3rd gear and stomping the rear brake itll drop id say 2 inches or more and itll just skim right across the braking bumps rear end low...... very effective.

i keep bugging him about putting it on my bike.

[C41Xracer]

this set up would probably work great on a TT set up. it would set the bike up for a corner like a dirt car

[TJ Bradley]

Im not sure but i think i've seen this set up on Maybe Cody Gibsons, Walsh backed LTR.?? You have anything to do with that? Just wandering. But AWESOME AWESOME hybrid. And great engineering skills. Im jealous

[protraxrptr17]

Not directly. A couple years back I called Mike Walsh and told him about my idea. I told him that I didn't have the resouces to market it. I told him to use it and if it made millions maybe give me a little credit for the idea. We both kinda laughed, and he said there just wasn't millions to be made in this sport yet. He said he might put it on Lawsons bike and run it awhile before even thinking about putting it out for the public. I sent him some pics and then called him again later to follow up and he didn't really sound too excited about it and just kinda blew me off, so I figured he forgot about the whole thing untill I saw pics of it on Gibson's bike. Even though he changed it up from the way I originally designed it, its still kinda cool to see it on a real race teams bike and to know that it started here in my own little world. Some of you may have already heard that story a few times, but there it is again.:)

I have finished swapping in the 450sx-f. I didn't get any pictures as I progressed. I was in a hurry and only got to work on it between my paying jobs. I haven't really got to ride it much yet. I had an issue with a bog on landings and other jetting problems, so I can't really say if it's better than the 525 yet. I have also leased a local track and have been busy getting it going. I'll get a picture or two of the finished product in the next day or two. It rained us out saturday, so we worked on the YFZ/525 project. It'll be a really big job, and my buddy who has alot more time than me can maybe do a better job putting up pictures if ya'll want to see how its done.

[mitch-#4yfz]

over the last couple of weekends we were able to make some progress on the yfz 525. we had to build the swingarm to fit the motor. now we have all of the bottom mounts in and the motor is bolted up. all we need is about two more rain outs. we need to finish up the rear shock mount and the exhaust.

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