yfz engine rattle crank?piston?valves?cam chain? video inside check out please [Archive]

mxpimp2000

10-23-2008, 01:31 PM

here is a video of my engine rattle i have it seems like its gettin worse everytime i ride it 1min to 5mins just puttin around the yard i have heard alot of diff things so i decided to post up a video to give some ideas please let me know if anyone has a good idea of whats rattling thanks

http://s121.photobucket.com/albums/o224/mxpimp2000/?action=view&current=yfzrattler.flv

Ride1Rob

10-23-2008, 03:38 PM

I can surely hear it :huh . Could be a number of things when it comes to these motors though. Mine rattled like that and the piston had cracked where the wristpen slides through it. Had 4 hairline cracks and one big crack in that area. Best thing for you to do is tear it down and do an inspection of your valves, piston, rod, and crank. More than likely one of these is the culprit.

mxpimp2000

10-23-2008, 03:41 PM

its loud aint it lol gets louder everytime i start it i swear i hope its not my crank or rod bearings i cant find any good deals on labor around here either its like 500 just to split the case open

Ride1Rob

10-23-2008, 04:07 PM

You don't need to keep running it as you can cause yourself more damage. Something possibly could go in that motor. Check your PM's ;) .

#17YFZRACER

10-23-2008, 04:20 PM

check the cam chain tensioner. could have broke or bent and the sound you hear is the chain "slapping". thats like a $15 fix if thats it.

mxpimp2000

10-23-2008, 04:21 PM

tensioner is good already checked it out

mxpimp2000

10-23-2008, 04:24 PM

Originally posted by Ride1Rob
You don't need to keep running it as you can cause yourself more damage. Something possibly could go in that motor. Check your PM's ;) .

i dont ride it i start it now and ten to keep battery charged and things workin good i took the vid today and rode it around real easy and its been 6 weeks since last ride on it

#17YFZRACER

10-23-2008, 04:33 PM

has it ever been rebuilt?

mxpimp2000

10-23-2008, 05:00 PM

nope fresh 06 stock motor cam mod jetted and exhaust thats only mods motor has

#17YFZRACER

10-23-2008, 08:44 PM

how often do u check the valves?

mxpimp2000

10-23-2008, 09:01 PM

they we just set few races ago

#17YFZRACER

10-23-2008, 09:07 PM

who did it and did it ever run right after the reset?

mxpimp2000

10-23-2008, 09:10 PM

it runs like a top still to this day somewhat a lil hard to start but not all the time

#17YFZRACER

10-23-2008, 09:15 PM

can u pull the motor?

mxpimp2000

10-23-2008, 09:17 PM

what do u mean pull it apart or pull it off the bike?

#17YFZRACER

10-23-2008, 09:19 PM

pull it out of the chassis

mxpimp2000

10-24-2008, 02:18 PM

yea i could if needed to

Toadz400

10-26-2008, 12:01 AM

Originally posted by mxpimp2000
it runs like a top still to this day somewhat a lil hard to start but not all the time

I would start by taking the cam cover off and checking your valves and cam chain. Hard starting could be caused by out of spec valves.

mxpimp2000

10-26-2008, 12:25 AM

thanks for all the help everyone... keep the help coming thanks

SMS

10-27-2008, 04:29 PM

I would check cam chain and tensioner. I bet I have replaced 25 this year. The cylinder also wears the plating off and and causes problems.

mxpimp2000

10-27-2008, 09:41 PM

Originally posted by Ride1Rob
I can surely hear it :huh . Could be a number of things when it comes to these motors though. Mine rattled like that and the piston had cracked where the wristpen slides through it. Had 4 hairline cracks and one big crack in that area. Best thing for you to do is tear it down and do an inspection of your valves, piston, rod, and crank. More than likely one of these is the culprit.

since u seem to know quite abit bout the yfz i had mine tore down and looked at 2day and the nickasil coating had been worn off the front of the cyclinder from the piston rings being worn quite a bit and slack caused it to rattle and mess up my cyclinder head so my mechanic said around 675 for all new high comp piston and new cyclinder head gaskets and labor is that a fair price? u were right when u said it was in the top end lol how much will a 13:1 piston change my bike other than that its stock except a cam mod jetted and lid removed and exhaust and UNI filter do i need to run race gas or mixed 93/110

SMS

10-27-2008, 10:40 PM

you can get a new cylinder, new piston and tell him to replace the timing chain as well and the water pump shaft. Labor for area is 55-75 hr we charge 55 hr dyno 65 hr
The parts to do this all should be around 500-550
Labor should be around 6 hrs $330
880
It may be cheaper depending on what parts you buy some brands are worth paying more for. I would use 110 octane not mixed for 13:1 If you do not have to be a certain cc you could even go with a big bore kit send you cylinder to us and we bore it and plate it to a 96 or 97mm bore je offer each size in a 13:1 for $170 To do the cylinder is $250 it is cheaper in the long run to go this way.
Hope this helps

Ride1Rob

10-28-2008, 08:09 PM

I don't want to step on any toes, but that shouldn't be a six hour job. For me to take a head, cylinder, and piston off is about 45 mins. To replace piston, cylinder, and head is only about an hour and a half. I have torn the whole motor down to the cases in alil over 1hr 30mins. I guess if your getting paid by the hour somehow the clock tends to run alittle faster and the work tends to take a bit longer. I rebuild whole motors for $400 ; )

No problem running mixed fuel. 93 & 110 is fine. I run that in my sons bike and mine and have been for a couple of years.

SMS

10-28-2008, 09:01 PM

Ya it sounds like you a lot faster than I. If you can rebuild the top end do the valve job and shim the cam and rebuild water pump and change oil and filter in 1.5 hrs you the man for sure. You must be very good.

Ride1Rob

10-28-2008, 09:40 PM

Originally posted by SMS
Ya it sounds like you a lot faster than I. If you can rebuild the top end do the valve job and shim the cam and rebuild water pump and change oil and filter in 1.5 hrs you the man for sure. You must be very good.

Like I said, I didn't want to step on any toes but it seems that someone was offended. If you read my post, I listed what I said that I could do in an hour and a half. Changing the water pump and doing a valve job was nowhere in my post. The funny thing about this is that doing a valve job was nowhere in yours either. Okay, let's add another 10mins to that to change the water pump. That's still only about an 1hour 45mins. And as for the valves are concerned, you check those to make sure they're in spec and go from there. So you change the piston, cylinder, check the valves to make sure their in spec, put the motor back together, and check to make sure your valve clearances are all in spec. Now you guys see why these labor fees are so high from most of these local shops/dealerships :rolleyes: . They're spending more time eating donuts and drinking coffee while they're supposed to be working on your bikes :mad: .

mxpimp2000

10-28-2008, 09:43 PM

true man cause i actually watched them break mine down it took like 15mins to have it from ready to ride to theres my motor in a million parts lol its all about knowin what ur doing

SMS

10-29-2008, 08:48 AM

I think it is all to what detail you go to if you just want to tear it down and throw a piston and rings at it it should take a couple hrs and good to go. In our shop when we do a top end we change the timing chain in most cases, do the water pump check cylinder clearances, file fit the rings, remove the valves from the head wire bush the carbon off them and depending on condition we will lap the valves or cut valves and seats and assemble and then leak check the valves, I usually check cam shims on bench it just easier for me. Then I put back together I think it has alot to do with detail as well, if they bring the complete bike we also put it on the dyno break it in and tune it. We just don't throw engines together what if the valves are leaking or the rings are not gapped proper or cylinder is tappered then you wasted your time the customers and their money. It just is not a 4hr process here if it is for you kudos for you! I believe there is a lot that can be read into this do you tune the bike for the customer or just ship it or are they just sending you the engine I think we may have a few variables as well. I would guess you also don't have the overhead alot of shops do as well. I could do a rebuild for a few hundred dollars also if I had another job that paid my bills. I think their is alot more that needs to be considered. As far as stepping on my toes its ok I know we are just trying to help and make faster yfz450s. I am old and probably slow but at the end of the day I would rather check things over to the best of my ability becuase thats what I'm getting paid to do. You young bucks are just to fast for me!

Toadz400

10-29-2008, 05:05 PM

Originally posted by SMS
I think it is all to what detail you go to if you just want to tear it down and throw a piston and rings at it it should take a couple hrs and good to go. In our shop when we do a top end we change the timing chain in most cases, do the water pump check cylinder clearances, file fit the rings, remove the valves from the head wire bush the carbon off them and depending on condition we will lap the valves or cut valves and seats and assemble and then leak check the valves, I usually check cam shims on bench it just easier for me. Then I put back together I think it has alot to do with detail as well, if they bring the complete bike we also put it on the dyno break it in and tune it. We just don't throw engines together what if the valves are leaking or the rings are not gapped proper or cylinder is tappered then you wasted your time the customers and their money. It just is not a 4hr process here if it is for you kudos for you! I believe there is a lot that can be read into this do you tune the bike for the customer or just ship it or are they just sending you the engine I think we may have a few variables as well. I would guess you also don't have the overhead alot of shops do as well. I could do a rebuild for a few hundred dollars also if I had another job that paid my bills. I think their is alot more that needs to be considered. As far as stepping on my toes its ok I know we are just trying to help and make faster yfz450s. I am old and probably slow but at the end of the day I would rather check things over to the best of my ability becuase thats what I'm getting paid to do. You young bucks are just to fast for me!

I'd rather have someone take forever rebuilding my engine right the first time around then rushing to get it done in record time and for the cheapest dollar.

SMS

10-29-2008, 05:15 PM

Thanks I might be slow but I try my best to do it right the first time. Thats how we all feel here, I talked to one of our techs today he said stock yfz450 rings out of the box measured .008'' end gap I walked by 5 min later and he was filing them down. I do think their are alot faster guys out there then me anyway I really do not pride my self on that plus I'm handiecapped and can barely walk.

Ride1Rob

10-29-2008, 05:58 PM

Originally posted by Toadz400
I'd rather have someone take forever rebuilding my engine right the first time around then rushing to get it done in record time and for the cheapest dollar.

Now that's a slap in the face. Where did you see in my post where it said anything about rushing? It's not a race when you're working on motors. I don't have a shop and don't have motors sitting around waiting to be worked on. I work out of my garage and help those like mxpimp that don't have thousands of dollars to rebuild a motor. I used to be one of the guys that was getting screwed by the local shops that charge rediculous fees and OVERCHARGING the consumer. So I started helping people out when they ask for it. I don't solicit people to work on their motors. I have a full time job that pays $21 an hour so I do okay. There are certain things about these motors that take alot more time than others. If I were completely rebuilding the head or completely rebuilding the bottom end there's ALOT more time involved. And a good word to the wise, Just because you pay more doesn't mean you're getting better service lol.

SMS

10-29-2008, 06:24 PM

agreed not always, here is a head i ported today

SMS

10-29-2008, 06:26 PM

SMS

10-29-2008, 06:26 PM

mxpimp2000

10-29-2008, 08:45 PM

hey check out my cyclinder head i went and picked it up today at the shop let me know wht u think

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o224/mxpimp2000/cyclinder1.jpg

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o224/mxpimp2000/cyclinder2.jpg

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o224/mxpimp2000/cyclinder.jpg

Toadz400

10-30-2008, 06:30 AM

Originally posted by Ride1Rob
Now that's a slap in the face. Where did you see in my post where it said anything about rushing? It's not a race when you're working on motors. I don't have a shop and don't have motors sitting around waiting to be worked on. I work out of my garage and help those like mxpimp that don't have thousands of dollars to rebuild a motor. I used to be one of the guys that was getting screwed by the local shops that charge rediculous fees and OVERCHARGING the consumer. So I started helping people out when they ask for it. I don't solicit people to work on their motors. I have a full time job that pays $21 an hour so I do okay. There are certain things about these motors that take alot more time than others. If I were completely rebuilding the head or completely rebuilding the bottom end there's ALOT more time involved. And a good word to the wise, Just because you pay more doesn't mean you're getting better service lol.

Where did you see in my post where it said anything about me accusing you of rushing? I was stating my opinion that I'd rather have someone take their time on my engine, even though I don't think I'd ever let anyone touch it besides myself. And yes, just because you're paing more doesn't mean you're getting better service but I don't believe in cheaping out either. Not accusing you of anything. Just stating my opinion. No offense meant by any of my posts.

Toadz400

10-30-2008, 06:32 AM

Originally posted by mxpimp2000
hey check out my cyclinder head i went and picked it up today at the shop let me know wht u think

Looks like something was sloppy. I don't know exactly if that'd be slop in a rod/piston bearing but I'm sure one of the engine guru's will chip in!

Ride1Rob

10-30-2008, 07:33 AM

Originally posted by Toadz400
Where did you see in my post where it said anything about me accusing you of rushing? I was stating my opinion that I'd rather have someone take their time on my engine, even though I don't think I'd ever let anyone touch it besides myself. And yes, just because you're paing more doesn't mean you're getting better service but I don't believe in cheaping out either. Not accusing you of anything. Just stating my opinion. No offense meant by any of my posts.

Well your comments referred to rushing and cheap prices to fix. Those were the topics at hand that myself and SMS were posting about. You chimned in on both topics so I felt as if you were referring to me. I hope SMS runs a fine shop and looks out for his customers. But most shops don't! There's a guy here that got into contact with me a few days ago about doing work to his blaster. A local shop here quoted him $1700 to rebuild his topend. Now, this price included the parts along with the labor but that's rediculous :( .

SMS

10-30-2008, 07:43 AM

I agree some are out there to hit a home run on every job. I just like to build fast quads and help people go fast and win championships, that is my addiction. I just want to give a honest opinion of what it takes me to do the job. I did read some remarks that are vary true as well, like you can tear the yfz down in 1/2 hr but to put it together and to do a good job it takes time to check things over. There are always going to be different cost from different shops do to overhead. I'm not as big as Duncan or Trinity so I would guess they would charge more.

Ride1Rob

10-30-2008, 07:54 AM

Well with alot of those companies (such as Trinity), you're paying for the name lol. Trinity is horrible! I rebuilt a guys KXF450 and he had them to do his portwork. He said they told him he was getting a maxed out head and the thing had a recreational portjob. I've seen and heard bad things about them. I love thier pipes though and have one on my bike :ermm: . There are shops like yours that take care of consumers. Dee Manscheck (sp) is one of the best builders in the nation. He has a flat rate of $450 to rebuild a motor as of 3-4 months ago.

From the looks of your port job you seem to be on top of your game ;) . That head looks sweet. I mess around on my sons quad and did a portjob on his lil Typhoon head. But I won't mess around on these bigger quads unless it simply cleaning up the factory blemishes in the ports. GREAT JOB! How much do you charge for portwork? I may have business come your way everyonce in awhile. Matter of fact, I have a guy that's been asking me about a port job.

Ride1Rob

10-30-2008, 08:11 AM

Originally posted by mxpimp2000
hey check out my cyclinder head i went and picked it up today at the shop let me know wht u think

MXpimp, that cylinder is no good. The nickasil has been removed as you can see on the top. Is that the piston sitting in it? Get some pics of it on the bottom where the wristpen sits.

mxpimp2000

10-30-2008, 09:30 AM

WOW my thread has turned into a courtroom :D yes that was the piston sittin inside he head, at the top of the cylinder is the only place it was worn like that everywhaere else looks fine

BOTTOM VIEW:
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o224/mxpimp2000/cylinder.jpg

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o224/mxpimp2000/cylinder1.jpg

PISTON AND TOP VIEW AGAIN:
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o224/mxpimp2000/CYLINDER3.jpg

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o224/mxpimp2000/piston.jpg

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o224/mxpimp2000/cylinder2.jpg

SMS

10-30-2008, 02:38 PM

haha I think we are both just trying to help. I got three of them being replated now. If you want they should be done first of week $180 on exchange. If you want a big bore 96mm it is $225 It is cheaper to get cylinder replated then to buy new from yamaha is $264

mxpimp2000

10-30-2008, 03:39 PM

nah i already ordered a new cylinder from yamaha got it for 250 i got this extra one now it needs replatin id like to sale it if anyone would be lookin to upgrade their 04-05 to a 449cc i can get a 96mm cylinder from bill ballance off his bike has 2 races on it with a high comp 1 ring piston for 150 but id rather have new parts on my bike

Ride1Rob

10-30-2008, 04:01 PM

MXpimp, the cylinders for all yfz's are the same. It's the cranks that are different on the 04-05's. Seems that the piston or rings were putting alot of pressure on the cylinder at TDC. Is it just on that side or is it all the way around the cylinder? That $185 is very good price with exchange. I have one laying in my garage I may have to send you.

***Edit*** I saw it. it on the front and rear of the inside. I would think that your rings had too much play and may have caused your piston to rub your cylinder at tdc. How much time do you have on this motor?