starting problems with 11:1 compression [Archive]

hypersnyper6947

10-21-2008, 11:34 PM

So since the rebuild the quad runs good but now it is extremely hard to start. I didnt think 11:1 was that high of compression but i guess it is.

Now it seems that the starter relay is not working that well it just clicks, even with a brand new battery. So to start it we just put a screw driver across the two bolts to connect them, then it starts.

Any input is greatly appreciated

dscb_81

10-23-2008, 11:16 AM

Not sure whats wrong with your raptor but I did the Je 11:1 piston before my quad was stolen. My raptor started quicker after I did the piston and the rest of the **** in my signature. There are people with 14:1 piston and their raptors start fine. Good luck on finding the problem

tater_kamik

10-23-2008, 01:04 PM

your bypassing the actual starter relay mechanism inside by doing that so it sounds like you have a bad relay. 5 minutes of work probably be good to go

xrdrsux

10-23-2008, 01:45 PM

yea it dont have anything to do with the 11:1. that is what i have also.
Mine has done the clicking thing but the battery was too low. I put it on a trickle charger and it was fine for a few weeks. Like it was said, it may be the relay.

hypersnyper6947

11-20-2008, 09:06 AM

Originally posted by tater_kamik
your bypassing the actual starter relay mechanism inside by doing that so it sounds like you have a bad relay. 5 minutes of work probably be good to go

What can be done in 5 min to make it work? Or are you just talking about changing the relay,

tater_kamik

11-25-2008, 07:58 AM

sorry, was talking about changing the relay

hypersnyper6947

12-03-2008, 11:51 PM

OK so we bought a new relay, and put it on, now the relay works, we have a new battery on it. The problem now is it tries to turn over but it turns REAL slow. So now it doesnt start.

Is there some sort of high torque starter or something, or maybe we just need a new starter motor, the starter clutch was recently changed.

tater_kamik

12-04-2008, 07:50 AM

mine does the same thing, or did atleast. i ended up upgrading the wiring to a 4 gauge wire from an welding shop, and some really tough crimp connectors. also, i threw in a larger battery and an higher torque starter from ems if i remember correctly. if my relay goes out i will be changing that to an higher current relay. that being said, before i did that i checked the operation of the auto decomp system on the cam/ cam gear. what i found was that one of my weights on the cam gear had sheared, but i am sure that was an isolated incident. how it didnt do any damage nor could i ever find the darn thing i will never know. this was when i was sitting at 12:1 compression. now i went overboard quite a bit to say the least because, well i like doing that. a good solid charge and throwing a trickle charger on (also charging the battery fully after adding the acid is extremely important) should solve your problem. if not, make sure all of the connections are corrosion free, nice and clean, and solid.

hypersnyper6947

12-06-2008, 02:20 PM

What battery did you use?

tater_kamik

12-07-2008, 09:18 PM

im trying to remember, im at my house not the shop so... but all i did was i measured the battery cavity and took a tape measure to my local autozone etc and measured the batteries available. i settled with one with the same width, height but was longer and it fits just fine.

MXin700R

12-13-2008, 03:36 AM

The only thing that can cause your problem(other than electrical issues) is the decompression button in the cam not operating. Some people have seen theirs break so make sure its working. Very easy to do, just take the valve cover and cam cover off and rotate the engine over until you see the cam button on the lobe and move the lever on the end of the cam back and forth and see the buttom drop down flush with the lobe and above it.

tater_kamik

12-13-2008, 12:24 PM

yup i had to go looking for a picture of the decomp mechanism

my motor, you can see the button extruding from the cam
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j252/tater_kamik/DCFN0011-1.jpg

my motor, cam gear with decomp weights
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j252/tater_kamik/DCFN0010-1.jpg

tater_kamik

12-29-2008, 06:20 PM

did you happen to fix your problem? i happen to be a tad curious as to what you did and found since i have worked on quite a few different raptors with starting problems.

hypersnyper6947

01-09-2009, 01:22 PM

We put a new solenoid, and put bigger positive and negative wires from the battery. Now it will start but still not all that great. It needs a new battery.

You said you have a more powerful battery right? What are the numbers on the battery so we can get the same one.

Now the motor started knocking when we were on our last ride so will see what happens now. :mad:

tater_kamik

01-10-2009, 12:48 PM

did you replace all of the wires inclluding those going to the starter? i do have a larger battery but i cannot check what one right atm im several hours from my house and wont be back for a few days. i just went to a local shop after i measured the battery compartment and selected one that would fit. make sure you give it a good initial charge. sounds like you are having a few problems! you will work them all out. going to start a thread on the knocking? and did you happen to look at the cam/ cam gear for correct operation of the decompression system?

hypersnyper6947

01-10-2009, 04:36 PM

Never checked the cam b/c after changing the wires it started to start even with the old battery. As soon as we take it apart i will start a new thread with pics about the knocking.

The fan was not coming on and it started to get real hot when my buddy rode a couple times until we noticed the fan not coming on, it never boiled over though (coolant). So then we wired the fan to a toggle so we could just turn it on after starting it and not worry about it kicking on. This seemed to work everything was all good, then we were about 20min into a trail ride and he shut it off because he heard knocking. it seemed as if it would still turn over, but we towed it back instead of trying to start it. so we will see

hypersnyper6947

01-12-2009, 11:13 PM

So we took it apart today to investigate this knock. We found about a 1/4" chunk of metal missing from in front of where the cam sits. Very random spot to have a chip missing especially that size. So we took the left side case cover (timing chain side) off to see if we could find the metal piece. No luck, but if you turn the crank over manually it will go 720 degrees before it becomes real hard to turn. We took the spark plug out so its not compression. Then you can force it over and it does the same again two revolutions on the wheel that is in front of the one way gear and then it becomes hard to turn. The cam also has a tiny tiny chip out of the side of one of the lobes.

Any input would be great. Tater what do you think

tater_kamik

01-13-2009, 02:09 PM

very interresting, positive side it sounds like you saved your motor :) do you happen to have a picture of where the metal is missing? im going to look over your previous posts to refresh what all ya have done so i dont try to lead you astray

tater_kamik

01-13-2009, 02:32 PM

kk, so its a fresh rebuild with an 11:1 piston, slight bore/hone, stage 1 hotcam, and stock springs and retainers correct? the chunk of metal came from the area right in front of the cam lobes or cam gear? does it feel like there is something getting stuck causing it hard to turn over? kind of hard to troubleshoot something like this from a far ways away but ill do what i can to help.

hypersnyper6947

01-14-2009, 03:42 PM

I will get some pics tonight and post them up. I may even put a video so you can see exactly what im talking about. Im pretty sure if he cant get it running he is going to part it out. It has a full pipe houser +2 front, durablue axle itp rims tires etc... so he may be able to get more that way. I will post soon

tater_kamik

01-14-2009, 08:09 PM

that would definately help. im sure yall will get it, besides ya have to love your raptor. hell it has reverse! im about to sell some pieces and parts from mine too actually, but hopefully he doesnt get to that point. im sure it wont be too bad to fix it. there are known issues of the decomp mechanism on the cam gear failing and taking pieces of metal with it so hopefully thats it which should be an easy fix if all goes well

hypersnyper6947

01-14-2009, 08:24 PM

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i276/aclasson86/exriders/GetAttachmentaspx.jpg

Here is the pic, it doesnt seem to be in a bad spot.

tater_kamik

01-15-2009, 12:46 PM

now that is an odd spot to say the least. and you cannot find the piece nor any other damage?

hypersnyper6947

01-16-2009, 01:43 AM

Yea i thought that was a strange spot too. When you turn it over manually it goes around perfect then it gets stuck kinda, if you push it it will pass that hard spot then its perfect again until you go around the rotation back to that spot. I know that chunk is probably the problem so if we can find it where its hanging up and then remove it and replace anything damaged it should work fine. I hope its an easy cheap fix.

What do you think?

BancheeFew

01-16-2009, 06:16 AM

Have you gone through mudd and would of got in your filter or you need a new cable for your battery.

BancheeFew

01-16-2009, 06:19 AM

Now i see that pic that is some damage.

BancheeFew

01-16-2009, 06:23 AM

Try looking for a bad chip or something that would make it have problems. Or replace the battery cord for if the one you have now is bad. And try a new sparkplug with it if you have not.

tater_kamik

01-16-2009, 08:40 AM

what im thinking happened is that when it overheated, the head overheated and brought out a previously stressed point in the head whick ended up fully cracking and breaking off. as far as where the piece could have gone, i have no idea.
I would take the head off and replace it, then take the jug off and thoroughly inspect the crank, drain pan, basically every little nook and cranny the piece could have gone and for any damage/ reasons why it would be hanging up when you turn the motor over.

hypersnyper6947

01-17-2009, 10:46 PM

pretty sure he is going to part it out so if anyone is interested in houser plus 2 arms, full fmf exhaust, aluminum intake box with k&n, itp wheels and tires, durablue axle or black palstics front and back or anything else shoot me a pm. Renthal bars carbs etc....