Any tips?

[Fear250r]

Here's the deal. I've finished building the bike and what not. Last weekend I was racing a couple 450's and a Banshee. I stayed with them, but I kinda expected to kill the 450's, but it didn't happen. Just looking for any tips/ideas as to where the problem areas could be at this point. Here's the list on the bike.

330 ported low-mid by Neil running 100 octane
motor was rebuilt top to bottom
38mm A/S, VF2(old reeds, problem?), K&N
Paul Tuner midrange race with FB silencer
stock 13/38 gearing

Anything else, just ask. I was running 22" blackwaters cuz we were in a sandy pit, and left the 20" holeshots at home. I'm also wondering if the jetting isn't spot on. Also, the old reeds in there, they're probably about 6 years old.

Now don't get me wrong, this thing tears *****, I just expected to kill the 450's. Any thoughts would be great. Thanks

[1promodfan]

Well if you have a 330 kit, and the 450 was ahead of you......its been worked to. I'm not taking away from 250R's, because I have one. But those 450's can be tough to beat. My brother had a 450, he outrun me, but he also spent $1300 on his top-end. Let me spend that much on my top-end, and it would be a different story.

[Master LTR450]

Best tip would be to go put it on a dyno! Then you would be able to see whats really going on. but a 330 ported by neil should walk on a 450 unless like already stated he had some performance mods to his motor as well??? Also you you did all that work to your motor and didnt spend less then $100 on reeds?? Were they bad, because you should have been able to tell.

[danhung11]

My previous R was a 265 with mild port, 38mm A/S, ESR 5 Centermount with Airbox Eliminator - I was running 13/41 gearing in sand.

I outweigh my brother by 50lbs and he had a 450R with pipe, piston, and cam and I was pretty much neck and neck with him, one thing was I was much more nimble than him in the trails - seems like your 330 should smoke an average 450R.

Do some testing and give us a progress report!

[chris46250r]

22 inch Blackwaters are some heavy sob's to get turning.

[86 Quad R]

Originally posted by chris46250r
22 inch Blackwaters are some heavy sob's to get turning.

i hear that...... :eek2:

have you got your engine completely dialed in? it'll make a difference.

[Fear250r]

First off, the 450 was never ahead, we were about neck and neck, but I expected to take him. He did have pipes on the bike.

2nd, I did check the reeds. I could see a little bit of light through one, but no cracks or anything. I didn't change them because I was thinking of switching to a Rad valve.

I raced a Banshee this weekend. He said all he had was the pipes, but that thing killed me. I'm wondering if the blackwaters are killing my gearing/power? It doesn't seem to affect it, cuz it's got tons of power, but maybe it is when it comes to race time?

I'm not sure that it's completely dialed in. Plus, it's starting to get cold around here, so it's gonna screw with everything. Maybe I should throw the holeshots back on and see what happens.

[2muchquad]

throw the 20in holeshots back on,then see whats'up:) But seriously i feel your pain,i raced my buddy today who has a bone stock 450er(stock pipe and everything) with my stock ported cylinder 250r and he got my lunch in the end.Now i have about 40lbs or so on him but still.I expected to blow by him since his bike was stock...quiet at that!Didnt happen.Wether we want to admit it or not those 4 fiddies run damn good as long as one is willing to keep up the maintenance.My motor may be mostly stock with just a lrd pipe,38 a/s carb and .75 over cylinder but it still rips..at least to me.So we may lose a race from time to time to the 450s,but i guess thats the price we pay for being different i guess,unless one has a bottomless wallet...

[1promodfan]

Originally posted by Fear250r
First off, the 450 was never ahead, we were about neck and neck, but I expected to take him. He did have pipes on the bike.

2nd, I did check the reeds. I could see a little bit of light through one, but no cracks or anything. I didn't change them because I was thinking of switching to a Rad valve.

I raced a Banshee this weekend. He said all he had was the pipes, but that thing killed me. I'm wondering if the blackwaters are killing my gearing/power? It doesn't seem to affect it, cuz it's got tons of power, but maybe it is when it comes to race time?

I'm not sure that it's completely dialed in. Plus, it's starting to get cold around here, so it's gonna screw with everything. Maybe I should throw the holeshots back on and see what happens.



If that Banshee killed you, chances are he has more than pipes. My bike is mostly stock.....(Rad valve, long rod, no sure what bore its on, K&N filter, and possibly a little port job) and I can hang with a Banshee that has pipes and filters. As for the 450's, they just apply the power different. What power they have, they are putting to the ground. All of us 2-stroke guys are doing more spinning.........and spinning ain't winning.

[All250R]

I'm surprised no one made mention of the type of port work. Low end porting is a different animal than porting you'd expect from a play sand motor and definitely different from drag motor. When you think porting on a 2stroke, think cam on a 4stroke. Mellow ports with that pipe and being tied with a 450 is actually pretty good! If you haven't had a custom head made, that should be in your mod list next.

[Fear250r]

Well, finally had a chance to go back out and put on the Holeshots. My buddy happen to be riding my bike at the time that everyone decided to start racing, so I just let him go at it. He's only 16 and has to be at least 50 lighter than me.

His first race was a little hairy, I think he might have gotten beat by uh, uh.....400ex. So I yelled at him and the what not and he got him the next time. He must've done another 5,6 or 7 races after that. Couple 450's, one or two Banshees and a Predator, they all got beat! They generally took off faster, but at about the half way point, he came right up on them and took 'em right around the 3/4 point. I gotta tell ya, I was proud of the little guy.

[C-LEIGH RACING]

Lot of people dont think about weight, but it plays a big part in racing.

Ok, lets go over some things & see if we can get the 4 poker slayer running.

First, for just plain drag racing, the portings wrong.
That bottom end to midrange port will work real well on trail riding & MX racing & I got quite a few that its working for them racing TT.
That reed cage is good for upper rpm output engines, but you have a bottom to mid type.
The Rad Valve would work good with the porting you have, but not that good using it on drag.
To make the bottom & mid port work right on drag, you'll need real high compression & working that shift lever consistantly every shift.
Like knowing & feeling, where the meat of the power is produced by that engine & as you go through the rpm range of each gear, shift when you feel a drop. You gona have to be good though to get it down pat.

Next, traction.
A 4 wheeler drag racing, you got to narrow up the rear end, get those tires up under the frame so it will get all the traction those tires can bite.
Pump those front tires up hard so they will skim across the dirt & set the bike up so the front end will sit lower than the rear so when you launch the weight will transfer to the rear wheels.

Tires, a brand new rear tire will grip better than a half worn out one for sure & all that makes any difference in a new tire or a used one is the corner edge of each of those knobs on the tire.
If the digging side of the knob dont have a good sharp corner edge, it cant grab the dirt. You could take an old rounded off knob & take a tire groover & cut the face of the knobs putting a sharp edge back on the knob & it would work just like a new tire.
This is why when you see a pro racer hit the track, they have on a new set ot tires on that bike every race.

That engine being all new & fresh, is probably still on the tight side & wont turn up good as one has a bunch of hours on it. She'll do a bit better when it frees up some.
Anyhow, with how your describing its performing, it dont sound but just a hair off from how it should run & just some minor changes to the bike & rider getting comfortable with how it works is all you'll need.

If you can, get you some VP C12 gas & mix that see if any change.
Neil

[Fear250r]

Neil, you did my port work. You've got it listed as "Ultra Mid" I believe. Is that your low to mid? I'm running Sunoco 110 cut with 93. As far as the reed cage, it's what was on the bike, I'd spent enough, so I left it for now.

Tires- I wanted to get new ones, but as it is riding season in these parts is pretty much done, so I was gonna bother right now.

I never expected or meant to turn it into a drag machine, but at some point in the day, everyone starts going at it. I was just happy to see my bike kickin' some *****.

I was also wondering, how much would an actual big bore pipe help? Like the sparks mx big bore, if I could actually find one....

[C-LEIGH RACING]

Yes, the Ultra is low to mid & how your decribing, sounds like its gitin it done.

That engine how its set up, not going to be best for drag, but, soon as the rider get a good feel for how it performs & how to use the power where its produced you'll see a difference.
You take that bike to a MX race & its going to be some other riders ( behind you ) out there not like you to good afterwards specialy since your on a 20 year old quad & spent about half what they have on those pokers.

Eric Gorr, one of the many better 2 stroke porters in the US, on his site he had on the front page, Speed is 95% rider 5% horsepower, & in all my years I have seen that with my own eyes to be so true.
Remember this, its custom to you, your level & more you get youst to it, more people will see that grab bar.
Do those little changes & it will get better, shucks, nothing else take a hacksaw & cut those old knobs so it will hook & on hard pack dirt, put in some ice screws.
You got to bite some dirt to beat them.
Neil