got beat on by 450's

[gregw338]

I would have to say this weekend was one of the most disappointing times I have had in a long time. Took the newly built up esr 330 stroker to the dunes and got my a** handed to me by almost every 450 I raced. About the only thing I could beat was stock or piped only 450's. I guess I was expecting to much from the R. Cant decide what to do now, buy a new trx450 or just go bigger with the R.

[HondaRaceReady]

You can't even go much bigger. Your bike is already built.

[Master LTR450]

First off what do you mean by getting whooped on? what were the riding conditons?

Honestly if I was you I would just be worried about getting that 330 stroker tuned in properly because you shouldnt really have much trouble hanging with or whooping them 450's yourself!! Let me ask a question since I see in your sign ESR evetything did ESR do the port work?

[gregw338]

yes, it has trx9 port job. To answer the first question I was at little sahara in ok. I am going to try experimenting with the gearring, I am currently running 14/38 gearring with 9 paddle 20" extreme haulers. Its coming off the line where I am losing aobut 4 - 5 bike lengths. Maybe an extended swingarm would help?

[86 Quad R]

Originally posted by Master LTR450
Honestly if I was you I would just be worried about getting that 330 stroker tuned in properly because you shouldnt really have much trouble hanging with or whooping them 450's yourself!!

i'm in agreement..... you should get it dialed in. you shouldnt have any trouble with the 4 pokes. what gear are you launching it?

[doc-bones]

14/38 is great all around gearing in hard pack to soft loamy conditions with 20" Radials. Turning 9 paddle haulers in soft sand.... I would say 14/40 would work better for launching 2nd gear! Or +4 swingarm and 13/38 gearing.... even better! Then say by... by 4 strokes! What pipe and what carb???

[2muchquad]

Im not saying your a scrub but were the guys on the 4 fiddies good riders?

[All250R]

I'm not sure what happened to you out there, but my strong guess is that you have setup issues. If you have the means get it to the dyno and see objectively what the engine is doing. Stock jug motors can be ported and setup to beat most 450's and still have a ridable powerband. A 330 set up they way they're supposed to can absolutely paste 450's on a dune face. 2-strokes are a dual edged sword. Mechanically they're simple and easy to modify. That leads people to think that the performance gains are easy to obtain as well. They're not. It's a lot easier to bolt a cam to a 4stroke than it is to get the porting and pipe configuration correct and ideal. Stock 250R's were setup for mild power and long reliability. You have to contend with the engine as a whole system to re-design the power output. The good news is that cc per cc the 2stroke without the extra moving parts is much less limited for peak hp than a 4stroke. If you have any doubt, in the dyno section in here, there's a CPI ~400 setup putting hp out in the 80's.

You've got the right bike, and you definitely don't need more displacement. You just need to finish setting up or designing what you have.

[All250R]

Originally posted by doc-bones
14/38 is great all around gearing in hard pack to soft loamy conditions with 20" Radials. Turning 9 paddle haulers in soft sand.... I would say 14/40 would work better for launching 2nd gear! Or +4 swingarm and 13/38 gearing.... even better! Then say by... by 4 strokes! What pipe and what carb???

You absolutely have to think about tires too. Remove hard won hp from your speed calculation if the tires can't push the quad forward. Haulers in my opinion are the best and most fun sand tire for recreational dune riding and mild but competent straight line racing.

[gregw338]

This may sound stupid but what do you mean by properly set up. As far as jetting I think its spot on. When riding everything feels fine, there are no bogs or dead spots, its just not as fast as I thing it should be. Another thing is when I was riding the temp kept rising to about 250° so I would only get to ride about 30 min before I would have to stop and let the motor cool. I have done everything that I know to do to try and figure out why it is running so hot. I have done everything esr said to do but it still gets up around 250° after about 30 min of riding. I have mixed gas 32:1 & 40:1 and no change in temp. I have checked impellar to make sure it is working and it is, tried numerous coolant to water ratios, different types of coolant. Made sure there was no air in cooling system. I just cant figure it out. Removed radiator cap to look and make sure coolant is circulating and it is. Esr put a cr ignition on, do you think that has anything to do with it overheating? Do you think overheating is why it is not performing up to par? During the whole break in process it was getting hot, Esr said that I just needed to take it out and open it up, so I did and it still overheats. I can make about 4 runs down the drag strip before the temp hits 250°. I gain about 25° each run I make. Is this normal? Should I pull the motor and send it back to esr or what?

[doc-bones]

My 350`s stay below 220 in any conditions, usually 180-200 degrees

[86 Quad R]

does 'at thing have adjustable timing?

[gregw338]

yeah, i think the cr ignition is adjustable

[86 Quad R]

who initially set the timing?

[All250R]

Originally posted by gregw338
This may sound stupid but what do you mean by properly set up. As far as jetting I think its spot on. When riding everything feels fine, there are no bogs or dead spots, its just not as fast as I thing it should be. Another thing is when I was riding the temp kept rising to about 250° so I would only get to ride about 30 min before I would have to stop and let the motor cool. I have done everything that I know to do to try and figure out why it is running so hot. I have done everything esr said to do but it still gets up around 250° after about 30 min of riding. I have mixed gas 32:1 & 40:1 and no change in temp. I have checked impellar to make sure it is working and it is, tried numerous coolant to water ratios, different types of coolant. Made sure there was no air in cooling system. I just cant figure it out. Removed radiator cap to look and make sure coolant is circulating and it is. Esr put a cr ignition on, do you think that has anything to do with it overheating? Do you think overheating is why it is not performing up to par? During the whole break in process it was getting hot, Esr said that I just needed to take it out and open it up, so I did and it still overheats. I can make about 4 runs down the drag strip before the temp hits 250°. I gain about 25° each run I make. Is this normal? Should I pull the motor and send it back to esr or what?

By setup, I mean everything that goes into designing a 2stroke motor. That's a lot to think about, but broadly, it's head design, porting and pipe, intake tract, ignition. There are a lot of things that can go right or wrong in here and the wrong combination of just a couple can cause substantial performance problems.

I think the timing question in light of your overheating problems is a really good place to start. Your engine should NOT be hitting 250*. With the engine running that hot, you're losing power just with the extra heat alone.

Just a suggestion, you might want to put the stock ignition back on and see if that makes an impact. You've got to get those temps under control or you're going to shorten the lifespan of your engine to boot.

[86 Quad R]

Originally posted by All250R
I think the timing question in light of your overheating problems is a really good place to start.

yaaaa-up! thats where im a headed with it. ;) i'm also thinking thats where him may be loosing power at as well.

[Pono]

you definately dont need more displacement. there was this esr equipped R that was absolutely spanking all the 450s in glamis. all the 450s would get the hole shot obviously because of the torque...but once we hit 3rd or 4th that R would scream by everyone. it was impressive. you should easily be over 50 hp.

[Hoppedrap]

Like this one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HtFdFt7C7c

[Dave83]

What kind of compression is your engine making?Do you run enough octane for it?

[brokenbones]

my esr 330 with just the low end 7 port will run hard against 450s and you should have no problem if you have it set up right

i run 14/38 with 20" 8 paddles on beadlocks with a 38mm kiehn and it never runs over 180

just my 2 cents

[gregw338]

i am running vp110, it should have great compression its a brand new motor, brand new everything, air filter reeds intake boot cylynder exhaust cr ignition clutch bottom end everything, esr is talking about sending me a lower compression dome. if all the other 330 strokers setup like mine are running the same compression dome why are they not having problems like me. it just dont make sense

[Dave83]

Your fuel should be perfect for the setup you have.I think a 13 tooth front sprocket would really help.I took my mx race bike to Sahara w an esr 310 and had fun with the 450's.It took a lot of motor in a 450 to beat me very bad in the drag races.I really had fun in the long whoop sections with them,what they had in HP advantage,I more than made up for in handling.

[Master LTR450]

Originally posted by gregw338
if all the other 330 strokers setup like mine are running the same compression dome why are they not having problems like me. it just dont make sense

Also just thought i would throw this out there but alot of people say that ESR's porting is hit or miss so maybe you got that miss.

[All250R]

Originally posted by gregw338
i am running vp110, it should have great compression its a brand new motor, brand new everything, air filter reeds intake boot cylynder exhaust cr ignition clutch bottom end everything, esr is talking about sending me a lower compression dome. if all the other 330 strokers setup like mine are running the same compression dome why are they not having problems like me. it just dont make sense
Part of the problem is you need to try to grasp that bolting on "brand new" parts doesn't automatically fix your engine. This is the advice you're getting that you need to try to put your head into or you're going to continue to be confused. If you're not interested in the finer points of making your engine run correctly, I'd suggest sending it to someone other than ESR for adjustment of your particular engine. For example, bolting on the same dome everyone else has doesn't mean it's going to work the same with your engine as it did with theirs. ESR wants to sell you parts, and for that moto they make more money. Tuning on the other hand is time they can't sell over and over. Try a smaller builder who gives you personal attention if you're still having trouble.

[Master LTR450]

Originally posted by All250R
Part of the problem is you need to try to grasp that bolting on "brand new" parts doesn't automatically fix your engine. This is the advice you're getting that you need to try to put your head into or you're going to continue to be confused. If you're not interested in the finer points of making your engine run correctly, I'd suggest sending it to someone other than ESR for adjustment of your particular engine. For example, bolting on the same dome everyone else has doesn't mean it's going to work the same with your engine as it did with theirs. ESR wants to sell you parts, and for that moto they make more money. Tuning on the other hand is time they can't sell over and over. Try a smaller builder who gives you personal attention if you're still having trouble.

Good Point!! Try Neil aka C-Leigh Racing

[86 Quad R]

Originally posted by Master LTR450
Good Point!! Try Neil aka C-Leigh Racing

yaaa-up! him knows his way around em better than most.

[k265r]

if your running @ 250 i would say to lean on the main jet. are the crank seals new? could have an air leak causing it to run lean.

[gregw338]

All seals are new. I sent the entire motor to esr to be built up and every thing checked and replaced if need be. I may try and lean it out and see how that does

[trx250rider]

Originally posted by gregw338
All seals are new. I sent the entire motor to esr to be built up and every thing checked and replaced if need be. I may try and lean it out and see how that does

if its running lean now, why would you lean it out? you need to go up on your mainjet.

[no-luck]

I may try and lean it out and see how that does
Don't lean it out anymore!!! lol are you trying to kill this engine? Fuel helps cool the engine, you may want to richen it up. How does the plug read?

[Master LTR450]

Just curious but why are you just taking parts off and selling them now?? I see you listed your exhaust which makes no sense at all. In fact your going backwards on getting your bike tuned in. ESR did all the work and you probably had them do the port work for the trx 9 pipe right? What are you looking to get for it?

[gregw338]

I am wanting more of a topend dragger duner, I am wanting to go with the trx11 centermount, dont get me wrong the trx9 hits like a freigt train is a very fun pipe but I am wanting more topend. Hopefully I will be able to send my topend to neil and let him do a good port job to match the trx11 exhaust.

[Aceman]

Originally posted by gregw338
I am wanting more of a topend dragger duner, I am wanting to go with the trx11 centermount, dont get me wrong the trx9 hits like a freigt train is a very fun pipe but I am wanting more topend. Hopefully I will be able to send my topend to neil and let him do a good port job to match the trx11 exhaust.

You haven't even got your motor running correctly and now you want to send your topend to Neil for a re-port?

You need to address your overheating issue.

[trx250rider]

i see your selling the ignition also..550 shipped?

[Master LTR450]

also do you have any pics of that pipe? never knew they made a trx9 centrmount

[gregw338]

The reason I am wanting to send my top end to Neil for a report is cause I want to get everything setup the way I want it then I will get everything fine tuned, Esr is saying the new dome they are sending me will cure the overheating issue but I guess I'll see. I was talking with a guy at little sahara and he was telling me he got a motor that was supposed to be 14:1 comp ratio and when he checked it was like 17:1. I dont know, I dont even know if that is possible but that is what he was telling me when we were talking about my overheating issue

[gregw338]

I will post some pics of the pipe tomorrow. It looks about like the trx5 accept where the trx5 size tapers off the trx9 stays the same size. It is a really fun pipe, you just have to be ready for the hit. As for the cr ignition that is shipped to your front door. If anyone is interested I would be willing to trade the trx9 for a trx11 centermount