416 vs z400 on alky

[1-800-eat-sand]

this is a serious question and there is a lot at stake

416 12:5:1 je piston
lowered
sparks drop in cam
corilla rod
no airbox lid and removed choke plate
sparks x-6 system
wb rev box

z400 drilled pipe
no airbox lid
bigger carb/brand???????
alcohol
maybe 1 other mod

100 yards for $1000

who's your money on??????????????

[Maryland 400EX]

My money's on you if you can install a small shot of Nitrous by the weekend! Seriously though, get yourself a 39MM FCR carb and it'll be your race to lose.

[ryanh250ex]

Originally posted by 1-800-eat-sand
this is a serious question and there is a lot at stake

416 12:5:1 je piston
lowered
sparks drop in cam
corilla rod
no airbox lid and removed choke plate
sparks x-6 system
wb rev box

z400 drilled pipe
no airbox lid
bigger carb/brand???????
alcohol
maybe 1 other mod

100 yards for $1000

who's your money on??????????????

what about tires?

i've heard that the Z has a powerband that will wear out the stockers in no time at all. tires could play a huge role in this race.

i THINK the 416 would win this one.make sure you get the holeshot.

good luck

hmmm, is this gonna be at the dunes???? i wanna come watch if it is!!!! 416 should win

P.S. if it is at the dunes number of paddles will make all the differece, i beat a piped z400 on my piped 400ex when i had it at the dunes, but i weighed 100lbs lighter than the other rider, lots of factors here

[F-16Guy]

All the Z has is a drilled out pipe, and he's on alky??!! Something smells fishy! I thought you put a motor on alcohol when it runs too hot for gasoline (i.e., major motor work).

[YZROOSTINYA]

if his motor is stock you will toast him


**** i'll race him with my 416, my quad is twice is fast now

especially a 12.5:1

[Texan32]

Originally posted by F-16Guy
All the Z has is a drilled out pipe, and he's on alky??!! Something smells fishy! I thought you put a motor on alcohol when it runs too hot for gasoline (i.e., major motor work).

Yep, usually you don't want to run alky till you need to because it is such high maintanance. I would think that a fairly stock motor would run crappy on meth.

i wouldn't trust the guy. I mean how well do you know him? I not the lieing type, but though my 400 is only slightly modified, i could EASLILY look you in the eye and tell you it has an FST 465 stroker in it.....lieing is just too easy....especially when there is
1 LARGE on the lines!

[Maryland 400EX]

My opinion is that for $1000 you need to have mods that the next guy doesn't have to ensure a victory. I.e. Nitrous, Stroker Motor, etc. Anyone who wants to run for that kind of loot either 1) Is confident that he can win because his motor produces extreme horsepower or 2) Realizes he can't beat you and is just trying to call your bluff. This is the same game we run in the streets with the Hayabusa, ZX-12's and stuff; Which is the same reason I use Nitrous. If you know for sure that dude is for real you better hold off and power up! Your mods don't put you at any serious advantage over him, especially since there is a mystery as to what he has done to the Z... I'm not discounting you or your quad, I just want to ensure that you get a victory because I can tell you first hand that losing $1000 is a hard pill to swallow.

[hondaboy400ex]

man i dont know about that race but i know i can hold off a z till i top out but it was a long @$$ drag just go for it u should have it and im all stock for the moter at least but keep us up dated


honda rules :grr

[ChadEXer]

If that guy has his alky set up correctly then he will hand you your *****,,,alky makes a huge difference when done correct!!! If the 416 has Sparks porting and a FCR carb then you might have a chance, otherwise you should probably use that $1000 to get that stuff!!!

Sounds like the POS Z will blow up before he reaches the checkers...my money's on the honda...:eek: Is it me or is the owner of the Z putting the cart before the horses with goin on alky so soon??:confused: :huh

[bmw500hp]

Originally posted by Maryland 400EX
My money's on you if you can install a small shot of Nitrous by the weekend! Seriously though, get yourself a 39MM FCR carb and it'll be your race to lose.

I got your fcr 39 and she's jetted for a 416....but my 2 cents says you need more time.... risky at 1000.00 clams... changes this soon to race....?? how many runs....??? rider ability..???

[ChadEXer]

Originally posted by Rico
Sounds like the POS Z will blow up before he reaches the checkers...my money's on the honda...:eek: Is it me or is the owner of the Z putting the cart before the horses with goin on alky so soon??:confused: :huh
Its actually pretty amazing how many people are putting alky on stock bikes now!! Sandtrix has a stock 250R(It does have porting and stuff) thats on alky and there arent many Banshees that can even come close to his bike,,,alky done right is amazing,,,,Im not a Suzuki fan at all and will never own one, but if done right its the Z all day!! However you know Im rooting for the Honda all the way!!!

[bmw500hp]

Originally posted by ChadEXer

Its actually pretty amazing how many people are putting alky on stock bikes now!! Im not a Suzuki fan at all and will never own one, but if done right its the Z all day!! However you know Im rooting for the Honda all the way!!!

Tell ol boy,, you dowanna take his coin.....but if he really has money to waste ya give it some thought. Chad's words drip with credibility!

[maxximus]

Alcohol can add up to 40% more power. And with the higher stock hp of the Z and different gearing of the Z...I would put a side bet on the Z to win. UNLESS THEY CANT HOOK UP...
:D

GOOD LUCK...

[AndrewRRR]

Ive always heard 20% more power. Anyways, I highly doubt that is all that is done to his Z. Chances are that's all you can see, so that's all he will admit. There is absolutely no reason to go to alcohol unless your compression warrants it, so at the least he's got a serious piston in there, which almost always means he has a big cam (remember it takes 2.5 times more alky than gas so you need lots of lift and duration). Also if its an alky bike I'm sure it's set up for drag, not many people use alcohol for other types of riding.
I wouldn't throw down that kind of cash for a bike that sounds so fishy. Tell him you'll race him for $100 (after you break out your compression gauge and check his compression and make sure its under 200psi, haha).

[ZMAN]

even with my name i would have to go with the 416 and the alky does sound a little fishy with no engine mods i think their is more work donr to that quad :blah :blah

[Sparks425Ex]

Get a Little more Info. That guys is not telling you somthing. It isn't all that commen to put Alky on a non Drag bike. I mean he is deff got some other toys working inside the engine. I am thinking the Z will win cause he is hiding sumthing (It seems.)


Chadexer: Get your 505 done and go over and tell him you have a 416 on alky and race him for a grand. My bet is on you.lol

[AndrewRRR]

There is a bike here locally that's "just a 380" (250r). Well this little 380 runs alcohol, has wild porting and does 4.1s in 100yd drags. He absolutely smokes alcohol banshees. Looks can be deceiving!

[airheadedduner]

hmmm I talked to Tim at hardbody about the Mac CR500R and he said they where only getting around 7 hp more by switching over to alky from 110. That was at the rear wheel. Thats about 20-25% on a Z if it gets the full 7, the Mac bike runs very high compression which you need to make full use of the alky.

[beerock]

even if the z400 is stock. that alky makes a big difference.

you dont need bigger valves or a cam for alky, you just need to jet the carb correctly.

if your still gonna race him Id suggest runnin klotz nitro additive. and jet your bike for it.

my friend ran it in his 350R on the final drag race and went from a 4.3 to a 4.0, That takes alot of work to get .3 off when your down to sub 4.5 second drag runs.:cool:

[airheadedduner]

I have heard of that stuff. Something about you have to jet up 3-5 sizes on the main.

[ZMAN]

ya that speaken of alky it i looked it up and it says it adds 30 -40% more power:huh

[1-800-eat-sand]

thats all thats done to his bike. i know him very well. he's been talkin smack so i finally told him to put his money where his mouth is. he thinks w/ a carb and alcohol i aint got a chance.
he thinks the 11:3:1 piston in the z is enough for alky. the 416 w/ the 12:5:1 is on race gas. i've always heard 13:1 is the minimum for alky!!! bump

Even if the Z motor is really stock, I think it will still take advantage of the alky due to its higher compression. Alky makes more power not just because it lets you run high compression, but it also has longer burn time, therefore making more power. I think you should turn your quad into a drunk too. or you might be in trouble! Oh well just my .02cents

[airheadedduner]

It also burns like 30 degrees cooler. Heat robs power and makes an engine less effecient.

[ChadEXer]

Even with the stock piston he will gain quite a bit from alky, he might not get 30-40% gain like some motors will but it will be more of a gain than a 416 kit for a 400EX,,,,if he was to up the compression then he would see even more gains!! A 11.3:1 piston will see a nice gain from alky, but if you want to use full force of alky you need to run at least a 12.5:1,,,actually that is said to be the best compression for alky, lower isnt really enough, and higher starts getting unreliable!!!

Nacs, I need to do a lot of that and get some of my money back!!

[Maryland 400EX]

Personally, I'n going with the Dry Nitrous over the alcohol setup. With the Nitrous you're on straight motor to ride as you wish but when the time comes to kill a Banshee, Raptor or Z-400 on alky all you have to do is squeeze the trigger and it's cryin' time for those high compression motors...

[ChadEXer]

Maryland, have you done much research on Nitrous??? Im not sure what you would call a "dry" system, but I have done much research and talked to many guys with NOS and unless your a hardcore drag racer looking for maximum HP then I cant see why you would would want to run it!! Yeah you can get a great increase with it for cheap, but you lose power(around 3 HP, sometimes more) just by having to install the nozzle into the intake which jacks with your air\fuel mixture,,,,and your talking about going with a 5 shot, not only is that not enough to keep you nowhere near the big bore high compression motors, but barely makes up for the loss you get when you install a NOS system on your bike,,,If you talk to more people and do a little more research on NOS I think you would change your mind about running it, then again maybe you wont!!! Call Trinity and ask them about it, or you can call Billet Bike Works and talk to Mark(Bad465) on here!!!

[Maryland 400EX]

I have a good deal of experience with the 'Dry Nitrous' system installs on Hayabusas and ZX-12 motorcycles. The dry system simply includes installing a nozzle directly into the airbox which fogs the box, eventually travels into the airbox plumbing to the carb and into the intake ports to the combustion chamber. This is not a direct port system or "Wet shot" which is more effective because it is plumbed into the intake ports but harder on the motor. The dry shot comes on very linear and provides great thrust without the all out hit of the wet shot. I have installed as much as an 80 shot on my Hayabusa with no problems in two years of 1/4 mile racing at the track. As long as the air/fuel ratio is correct and the timing is retarded a few degrees at 100% throttle on the bike the Dry Nitrous is a winner. As for the 400 EX, I just received a 1 LB. bottle from a local cycle shop and I'm preparing to mount the solenoid and trigger switch. I'll let you know what my findings are. The timing and compression are pretty low on these things which is a plus but I'm going to need a dyno with a A/F meter to see how much fuel is needed to run a decent shot (10 or 15HP shot) for serious power. I need to do my homework (search) and find out how much power the stock piston rod can support without failure. I'm not really worried about the motor because I'm prepared to go through it should the thing take a dump on me. As for not being able to keep up with the bigger motors, thats a non issue because I'll just keep on adding fuel to the carb and bigger Nitrous jets until I get the job done. There's no escaping the claws of a true Nitrous freak!

[airheadedduner]

:eek: :eek: :eek:

I think someone has been huffin the nitris retard.

J/K man, sounds like a sweet set-up.
What kinda jetting changes do you have to make to run an NOS system??? About how much is it gonna cost???

[Maryland 400EX]

The Dry Nitrous kit is near 500 clams. As for carb and nitrous jetting, I have no idea... I need to get to a dyno to ensure that during testing this thing runs rich enough on all passes to survive.

[Doibugu2]

Originally posted by Maryland 400EX
The Dry Nitrous kit is near 500 clams. As for carb and nitrous jetting, I have no idea... I need to get to a dyno to ensure that during testing this thing runs rich enough on all passes to survive.

Its good to have rich people on here, so they can try things like this. Let us know how it goes. Would be fun to put nitrous on my big wheel.

[Maryland 400EX]

Rich? Me? LOL! If you only knew... I may not be rich but I know how to make power. Stay tuned...;)

[ChadEXer]

OK, I wasnt too familiar with the "dry" nitrous! Maybe I should try it out!!!
I think I am the richest broke person in the world! Maryland seems like he makes money like I do so he could tell you, doesnt matter how much you make, it still isnt enough!!! I have more bills than my entire family combined, i have a LOT of nice things to show for it, but find myself searching for extra cash sometimes after my hundreds of bills are paid!!!

[Doibugu2]

Yea, I know that you can never make enough. Your spending habits always rise faster than your salary. If you don't believe that, just look at the balance on your credit cards.


Lesson for all you youngsters. Don't get a credit card when you turn 18. Its not worth it.

[0240099r1]

the hayabusa and the twelve are fuel injected bikes if you run a dry shot on them you can adjust your fuel through a power commander or rely on the temp sensor in the air box to richen up the bike ,a 400ex can't richen itself up at all to run a good air fuel ratio with the nitrous ,yes you could go up on your main jet to it run rich but i do not believe that with the big jet in place it will flow the fuel with enough pressure to attomize with the nitrous but thats just my .02 cents worth and lots of nitrous tuning and installs but if you try it and it works let us know ................

[Maryland 400EX]

Yea, if these things were fuel injected it would be a piece of cake with the Power Commander but changing jets and raising the needle isn't all that bad. You're right, I will have to run this thing on the rich side to accomodate the Nitrous but I do it with the Hayabusa all the time. I'm thinking like going up maybe 3 or 4 main jet sizes with the needle position still standard since I'll be spraying only at 100% throttle. It can be done but I must find a atv dyno. Heck, if I blow the motor I haven't lost a effing thing! What a turd of a motor!:mad:

[0240099r1]

just go with a wet shot i think you will be much happier plus it will still run the same on motor......

[airheadedduner]

If they only made powerjet carbs for thumpers:p That would help you out a lot.

[AndrewRRR]

That's my biggest concern with running a dry shot on a carbed bike, you either run rich off the nitrous or run lean on the nitrous.
I'd say go with a wet shot, you can accompany the nitrous with extra fuel and keep your bike happy.
Maryland, did you put a purge valve on the bike? It woudn't be all that much fun to be in a drag race and hit the nitrous only to have the bike start surging because of air bubbles in the n2o lines!
I was considering putting a wet kit on my 600cc suzuki (it will handle about a 30hp shot on the current internals) but for the price of the kit ($800) I think I'm just going to get a bigger motor and have more HP all the tiime!

[Maryland 400EX]

With the Dry system there's no need for a purge system. It's very reliable in terms of consistency when the trigger is hit. The wet system may be better for an application like this but I have yet to install one.