Let's settle this debate ... PEP, Axis, or Fox ??

[04TRX400EX]

I am planning on getting a set of Fox Float Evol DSC's for my upcoming 450R but I started searching the site and browsing past threads regarding the "big 3" shocks companies and don't know what to do.

ONCE AND FOR ALL, post your thoughts and EXPERIENCES with different LT setups regarding these shocks:

1) Fox Float Evol X (and/or DSC)
2) Custom Axis LT piggybacks (and/or Ti spring)
3) PEP ARC (and/or Big Can) or PB1

I realize there are other companies (most notably Elka or Ohlins) but feel everyone would agree the three listed represent the "best."

[fandl450r]

To be honest it comes down to rider preference. I prefer Axis out of the bunch, but may put Floats on my next quad. Each manufacturer has its drawbacks.

You can't go wrong with any of them. It all comes down to price.

[TWISTED]

Originally posted by fandl450r
To be honest it comes down to rider preference. I prefer Axis out of the bunch, but may put Floats on my next quad. Each manufacturer has its drawbacks.

You can't go wrong with any of them. It all comes down to price.

You hit the nail on the head... I also look at who I believe will give me the BEST service.... That IMO, outweighs price, but that's just me.........

[Jersey450R]

how about shock builder! not shock sticker.

[doc-bones]

All three are the BEST choices available today. My preference is AXIS, PEP then FOX. Yes, I have had all three. This is just my opinion. As I stated all three are great choices!

[Modifly]

Rode with all 3.

once dialled in correctly my PEP PB1's out performed the rest altho i love the feel of the Fox on the front n the axis rear. :)

[redrocker]

Axis in my book

[XCRacer236]

IMO it depends on MX or XC.
XC= Fox or Axis
MX= PEP hands down!

[04TRX400EX]

Originally posted by doc-bones
All three are the BEST choices available today. My preference is AXIS, PEP then FOX. Yes, I have had all three.

What makes you put them in that order? What about the riding experience makes you prefer one over the other?

It says it in my signature, but I should have specified that this will be a full-blown MX track quad.

I know everyone says that once they run PEP, they won't deviate but I guess I can't imagine a spring shock performing as well as air, but I don't have personal experience. I will be riding my buddy's Axis setup this weekend so maybe that will help.

[fandl450r]

Originally posted by 04TRX400EX
What makes you put them in that order? What about the riding experience makes you prefer one over the other?

It says it in my signature, but I should have specified that this will be a full-blown MX track quad.

I know everyone says that once they run PEP, they won't deviate but I guess I can't imagine a spring shock performing as well as air, but I don't have personal experience. I will be riding my buddy's Axis setup this weekend so maybe that will help.

I've had a set of PEP ARC's and currently own the Axis Ti big can piggybacks. Both were setup for same rider weight and style, and performed very similiar. It also comes down to the shock setup, any shock out of the box will perform pretty similiar but after dialing in my axis with high/lo speed compression they seemed to out-perform the PEP's.

Remember with air shocks, even the outside temperature comes into play when making adjustments. :) Which to me makes for greater adjustability but I enjoy just unloading and riding. I have my shocks built from Quinn Motorsports, and he does a fantastic job of dialing them in for me.

Price, wait time, customer service all play a role. Everyones experiences will be different.

[400exrapes]

I know that a big dealer of PEP, SF Racing, gives really good customer service and quick response to any questions you might have. Axis can get real expensive, and I think the most expensive set of front shocks from PEP are 2 grand.... Floats I know nothing about.

[doc-bones]

All three are in the same price range!

[400exrapes]

Originally posted by doc-bones
All three are in the same price range!

woops... basically I like PEP the best.

[scottproquad]

axis hands down

[quad2xtreme]

Impossible to solve...

Stadium Shocks are very good too but few know about them or have experience with them. They are big in the Snocross scene.

[04TRX400EX]

Originally posted by quad2xtreme
Impossible to solve...

Stadium Shocks are very good too but few know about them or have experience with them. They are big in the Snocross scene.

I realize this task or debate is damn near impossible to conclude but I think with enough people's opinions and experiences, everyone can start to see their own conclusion based on what they are looking for.

[rollie]

ID be say PB1s are the best, my Fox are sweet but i keep breaking the little valaves and caps, up to 6 times i think now:mad: at $6 bucks a peice for a little valve it sucks always replacing them, as far asthe ride though i couldnt ask for a better one, it soooo smooth:cool:

[04TRX400EX]

Originally posted by fandl450r
I've had a set of PEP ARC's and currently own the Axis Ti big can piggybacks. Both were setup for same rider weight and style, and performed very similiar. It also comes down to the shock setup, any shock out of the box will perform pretty similiar but after dialing in my axis with high/lo speed compression they seemed to out-perform the PEP's.

Remember with air shocks, even the outside temperature comes into play when making adjustments. :) Which to me makes for greater adjustability but I enjoy just unloading and riding. I have my shocks built from Quinn Motorsports, and he does a fantastic job of dialing them in for me.

Price, wait time, customer service all play a role. Everyones experiences will be different.

You brought up a couple of good points I haven't really thought about. I know from reading reviews and even the shock owners manual available online, Fox Floats do require extensive "checking" every time you ride because air pressures fluctuate. I, like you, don't mind the pre-ride tasks but do not want to be constantly worrying about the setup and making adjustments as necessary. I realize I am probably making it sound like more work than it really is, but it is something I should think about.

I also like the idea of separate hi and lo speed compression for when I do get good enough (sensitive enough) to notice the differences. PEP does not offer this feature.

The last thing said about price and customer service is very important and I know a lot has to do with your relationship with whoever they come from. As for price, they are close but there can be some difference with PEP's going closer to $2k, Axis ranging from $1300-1700 depending on adjustments and spring type, and the Fox sitting right at $1500.

[quad2xtreme]

can't you use nitrogen in the Fox instead of air? Nitrogen does not expand and contract based on temp.

[eastside 400]

unless you are carrying a nitrogen tank to each race with precise gauges, no you cant use nitrogen, they use air so you can adjust everything easily, im sure you could use nitrogen if you had the tank. but you need to be able to change the pressures for each track.

I own fox, i like them but they have their downfalls, lots of body roll and they take alot longer to dial in then any other shock do to the air pressures. It took me a couple months to dial mine in. i still cant get the roll out of them all the way and my bike sits too high but my air pressure is as low as i can get it. Fox also have a higher failure rate due to everything being air, there is no spring to rely on, if a spring shock blows you can finish because the spring holds the actual weight of the quad, the shock only reduces jounce and rebound, with fox if it blows your done, front end drops down and its like having no shock at all.

Im putting Axis on my next bike most likely and not air.

[04TRX400EX]

eastside 400 -

Thanks for your "real-world" response. I can imagine there would be more body roll with the Fox shox since there is not a rigid spring. I also hear what you're saying in regards to a higher failure rate due to the pressure put on valves and seals and such, which I've also heard elsewhere.

Considering the adjustments desired (and the price), I think I've changed my mind and will go with Axis triple-adjust piggybacks, and maybe even the Ti spring versions, front and rear.

[4bidden]

Originally posted by 04TRX400EX
eastside 400 -

Thanks for your "real-world" response. I can imagine there would be more body roll with the Fox shox since there is not a rigid spring. I also hear what you're saying in regards to a higher failure rate due to the pressure put on valves and seals and such, which I've also heard elsewhere.

Considering the adjustments desired (and the price), I think I've changed my mind and will go with Axis triple-adjust piggybacks, and maybe even the Ti spring versions, front and rear.

Skip the ti springs. I bought mine with Ti and recently sent them back to Axis and they pretty much suggested I go back to steel springs. They said the Ti setup tends to be a bit softer. Would be good for a C or B level MX rider or a XC rider though I guess?

[eastside 400]

thats actually the opposite, im not saying TI are the way to go or axis is wrong, but typically in shock setup, softer springs are used for A/Pro riders, C level riders require stiff springs because they typically cant ride smooth or land jumps correctly which takes a beating on the shocks. A level riders are usually smooth by then and land jumps properly so a softer setup is allowed, you want your shocks to bottom out atleast once around the track, they shouldnt bottom out extremely but you want the soft enough to bottom out on the hardest hit in the track. The softer setup is used to absord braking bumps and other soft hits.

Ti springs are not worth it IMO, you save some weight but not enough to take up the price increase with them, they dont sag like a normal spring will after time but think about how long a spring takes to sag, cars can go 100+k miles without having problems, i know quad shocks are abused more but still, steel springs can be replaced probably 3-4 times before you match the price of a ti spring setup.

[4bidden]

I guess I should have clarified my comment ......

The "softness" of my Ti setup became an issue with body roll as I progressed through the intermediate and onto the expert level. The faster I got, the more and more body roll I experienced. Crossover height was no longer a band-aid option. So...the Ti setup became too soft and Axis suggested going to steel when I sent them back to them.

[04TRX400EX]

Thanks for the suggestions on the Ti spring versus the standard steel springs. I would love to consider myself an "A" class rider but am in reality a C or B class at this point in time. I will work my way up but in the mean time, I'll save a few bucks by going with the standard triple-adjust piggyback versions.

[kodymx13]

Originally posted by fandl450r


Remember with air shocks, even the outside temperature comes into play when making adjustments. :) Which to me makes for greater adjustability but I enjoy just unloading and riding. I have my shocks built from Quinn Motorsports, and he does a fantastic job of dialing them in for me.

this man knows what hes talking about. a QUINN shock is THE BEST SHOCK. ask team can-am....... ;)

[fandl450r]

Originally posted by kodymx13
this man knows what hes talking about. a QUINN shock is THE BEST SHOCK. ask team can-am....... ;)

True that! Norris has been a close friend for some time now. Speaking of that I need to call him monday to get my shocks serviced this winter :)

[kodymx13]

ive been with him for almost 7 years now. WILL NOT use anybody else

[R3Concepts]

Ive always rode on PEP except for 05. When the 450Rs came out I had PEPs in 04 and switched to Axis for 05. The Axis were valved very slow. The rebound was never fast enough for me. They went back to Axis 2 different times to get re-valved, and I kind of babied them through the year, and didnt do all that well in 05. Switched back to PEP in 06 and rode much better again.

Ive got a rider right now that has Axis Ti on his race bike, and I just built him a practice bike with PB1s. Both bikes have DC4s, same setup, same ride height, same swingarm, link, etc. After one weekend on the PB1s he said they were a much better shock, and the bike turned much nicer with them. The Axis Ti he has have already been re-done locally by a shock builder, and then now on there way back to Axis, and just from little rides on it, I can tell they are a mile off, and he never seems happy with them.

I have another rider with DSC Evols, and hes not a maintenence rider, he gets on and goes, and if thats you, then Floats are not your shock. They need to be checked every ride, and they are a tuners shock. They can work well once dialed in, but IMO there are better shocks out of the box.

PEPs are by far the best out of the shocks you can buy.

[baker400ex]

Fox shoxz hands down. Rode with PEP PB1's they were smooth so i worked on my shocks alittle changing different pressures and adj the hard/soft n all that and got them even better than the PEPs. Fox also has great service at all the national races.

[04TRX400EX]

I got to ride my friend's LSR/Axis 450R at the track this past weekend and was very impressed. Even despite the fact that I weigh about 70lbs. less than him (so the valving and spring rates were a bit off) the quad still felt really smooth and controllable, even when you came up short on a jump or hit the choppy stuff.

I am still going to seriously consider PEP's but think Axis will be the way to go.

THANKS FOR EVERYONE'S COMMENTS AND EXPERIENCES SO FAR :)

[4bidden]

Originally posted by R3Concepts
Ive always rode on PEP except for 05. When the 450Rs came out I had PEPs in 04 and switched to Axis for 05. The Axis were valved very slow. The rebound was never fast enough for me. They went back to Axis 2 different times to get re-valved, and I kind of babied them through the year, and didnt do all that well in 05. Switched back to PEP in 06 and rode much better again.

Ive got a rider right now that has Axis Ti on his race bike, and I just built him a practice bike with PB1s. Both bikes have DC4s, same setup, same ride height, same swingarm, link, etc. After one weekend on the PB1s he said they were a much better shock, and the bike turned much nicer with them. The Axis Ti he has have already been re-done locally by a shock builder, and then now on there way back to Axis, and just from little rides on it, I can tell they are a mile off, and he never seems happy with them.

I have another rider with DSC Evols, and hes not a maintenence rider, he gets on and goes, and if thats you, then Floats are not your shock. They need to be checked every ride, and they are a tuners shock. They can work well once dialed in, but IMO there are better shocks out of the box.

PEPs are by far the best out of the shocks you can buy.

I caught a glimpse of Scotty when he parked himself on a berm up front at Speedworld, and looked like he was racing his practice bike with the PEPs?

[Dave400ex]

The ARS-FX EXIT shocks are working very good as well. Mine have been great. Most shock builders can get them all to work so it's up to you.