eton wont start need help

[vislaguy]

I picked up a dlx90 eton and cant get it to start .It has spark and it has fuel but it wont fire .I sprayed some fuel in the carb it should fire on that at a min. I looked at the reeds they seem fine and flutter back and forth when I turn it over. what would cause it not to fire at all. I dont know the condition of the top end. thanks mike

[dericsdad]

Did you check the compression? Stock should be at least 100 psi. Does it spark multiple times when you kick it over watching the spark plug? sometimes when the stator or cdi goes bad it will spark a single time, then stop, as you kick it over. Another problem area that could cause this is the stock kill switch. Replace it with a good one like a pro armor, or preo design.

Hope this helped, Dan.

[Bill Lemans]

Yup. The spark easiest to check first. Just went thru it 2 weeks ago.

If it's fine ,add some oil to help seal rings and then a squirt of primer.Once it heats up a bit everything will expand a bit and will start easier if your lucky.

Also if you notice the "black ooze" around the exhaust header , or even unbolt the exhaust from the head and see if it's dripping excessive blow by.

This is assuming the carb isn't dumping extra gas into the cyl. because the overflow is plugged.

This is my backyard way if no compression gage is available.:D

[vislaguy]

ok I did a compression check and it said a 100lbs if Im doing it right ? I hooked up the gage and used the elecric starter and it ran up to a 100lbs and thats as far as it would go.now if the kill switch was bad wouldent prevent it from sparking isnt that the way they work?? if its getting spark and gas it should fire right???? thanks mike

[Bill Lemans]

Are you getting the a nice blue spark that repeats every time you crank it ? 2 of the 3 etons i've owned had stator problems, prolly water/dirt and they had weak or intermittent spark before failing. I always check the spark in low light conditions.

If the kill switch is bad you typically won't get any spark . Unless it's a bad connection or corrosion sets in , then you could get intermittent spark.Clean the contact points on the switch with some scotchbrite or brillo pad.Or bypass the switch.

Throw a little 2 stroke oil in the cyl. and see if it raises the compression. 100 psi i on the low side.When you do the compression test make sure your holding the throttle wide open.Since you can't warm it up, the oil may help seal it a bit.Let it sit for a few minute and see if leaks down.If all other conditions are good, it should run on 100 psi.
Leave the oil in and then try your starting fluid and see if it at least burps a little.Go easy on fluid as it will wash away the oil and can cause more wear.
5-10 cranks should give you a pretty good idea.

If it's been sitting awhile there could even be condensation build up inside.

It could be a combination of things instead of any one thing. Weak spark and low compression can give that result. Flooding and weak spark can too.Low comp. weak spark and starting fluid may still not work.

At some point you may have to go to specs for you ignition system, float settings, etc.

[vislaguy]

Im glad I still have lots of hair because a wad of it is sitting besides this friken quad! Ok I added some oil and got a reading of 120lbs and it seamed to hold there for a long time , i would say the top end is fine.I also switched out the kill switch assembly with a good one and still the same.I also tryed the starting fluid and still no luck.OK heres my thought does the cdi only control the spark could it give spark but be sending a bad signal to not let it run?? if that makes any sence?? also the spark is strong. thanks guys

[JAG Motosports]

I went through all the same stuff on a drr that you are going through. Had a spark that appeared to be strong. I changed and tried everything, unfortunately for me the last thing I tried was the coil (afterall it had a spark). I guess the spark wasn't strong enough under a load. Just thought I would throw that into the mix.:ermm:

[neveready]

does the plug come out looking wet or dry? 100 psi may not try to start off the electric starter, you may have to kick it. A fresh 90 should hold at least 160. You say you can see the reeds flutter? that doesn't mean they're good, they need to seat tightly so they don't pull too much fuel at low speed. It can be very frustrating at times but that when I usually walk away, then at about 2am it hits me and it is something real simple. Good luck too you.

[dericsdad]

The compression is good. An Eton does not have 160 psi compression stock, more like 110-120... They don't come with a high compression head. My guess is the coil or Stator are bad. You need to check the resistance of the stator.

Here is a link to a good article in another site. Hope this helps!

http://forumsminiatv.proboards58.com/index.cgi?board=techarticles&action=display&thread=1513

[neveready]

I am sorry I tried to help!!!! I don't know why I try, everytime I do someone has something they think is so much better. You say stator or coil is your"GUESS". As was my post, and I have been around several of these motors, so I felt it was an educated one. I have never had a fresh motor read that low?? We all are just here to try to help one another, not to try to prove each other wrong. I will stay out of the thread!!!!!!

[JAG Motosports]

Originally posted by neveready
I am sorry I tried to help!!!! I don't know why I try, everytime I do someone has something they think is so much better. You say stator or coil is your"GUESS". As was my post, and I have been around several of these motors, so I felt it was an educated one. I have never had a fresh motor read that low?? We all are just here to try to help one another, not to try to prove each other wrong. I will stay out of the thread!!!!!!
Well said my sentiments exactly. Happened to me just yesterday. The whole forum is 99% educated guess. It's a mini quad thang.

[dericsdad]

WOW! I am only trying to help as well. No personal proving issues here...

The Polaris and Eton Mini atv's never had as much compression as the DRR and Apex atv's now come with stock.

I am only posting what I know, hoping it helps. Sorry if it looked differently the way I typed it.

With out personally ohming out the stator and coil, as per the link I attached, I can only "guess" that that is what is wrong, based on all of the info. given.

I have never owned a DRR or Apex, so I honestly don't know stock what the compression is for them.

Having just purchased this quad, he may not know if it is still stock... but bottom line is you were correct in that 100 psi with a "good" strong spark should be enough for it to start.

[etondaddy]

With a 100psi your going to have to kick it to start it......if it's going to start.......

Check the stator.......... like this......

Posted by: markvette

Tests to try if you have no spark or if your charging system is bad.

Preliminary test >>> This will not work on the Polaris and may not work on the Viper. If You Have either Proceed to the Stator test listed below.

1. Locate the CDI and unplug the connector for the black wire with the white stripe (or white wire with black stripe).
Test for spark. If no spark, leave it unpluged and proceed with test.

2. On the CDI, unplug the red wire with white stripe (could also be white wire with red stripe) AND the Black wire with white stripe (could be white wire with black stripe).

3. Locate the wires that come from the stator on the engine (right front top of engine. This harness is about 10" long can covered with a black tubing).
Connect the CDI red wire with white stripe (could also be white wire with red stripe) directly to the matching stator wire. Connect the CDI Black wire with white stripe (could be white wire with black stripe) directly to the stator wire.

Test for spark.

If no spark, you have a problem with the CDI, Stator or COIL. You have eliminated the AVT wire harness as the cause.


The stator tests as follows:

1. YOU MUST USE A DIGITAL OHM METER!!!
2. On the stator the ohm reading between the red wire with white stripe (could also be white wire with red stripe) AND the Black wire with white stripe (could be white wire with black stripe) should be about 1284 ohms for the ETON style (3 bolt fan) stators and 689 ohms for the Kasea, LRX and DRR (4 bolt fan) stators.
3. The red wire with white stripe (could also be white wire with red stripe) to ground should be about 447 ohms for the ETON style (3 bolt fan) stators and 112.7 ohms for the Kasea, LRX and DRR (4 bolt fan) stators.
4. The Black wire with white stripe (could be white wire with black stripe) to ground should be about 837 ohms for the ETON style (3 bolt fan) stators and 576 ohms for the Kasea, LRX and DRR (4 bolt fan) stators.
5. From the plastic connector with the three wires, confirm that the black lead has 0 resistance between the lead and the frame of the atv. That is the ground lead. Any noted resistance in the ground system means the ground is BAD. We recommend always adding a wire between the engine and the frame for a better ground.

NOTE That the total ohms for #3 and #4 are the same as the ohms in #2. That is because we but the resistance of the two coils in series and added the ohms.

IF YOU DO NOT GET THESE READINGS your stator is BAD.

COILS:

1. There are two resistances in coils. Eton vs. Kasea.
2. The Eton should measure about 9.24k ohms checking between the high voltage lead (no boot) and the coil ground.
3. The Eton coil should also read about .5 ohms between the coil input and coil ground. Kasea reads about .3 ohms. Don't switch them because you can burn out your CDI and stator.

Your typical plug cap is a resistor cap and it should read about 5k ohms. A great replacement cap is the NGK TB05EMA.

If your stator, coil and engine kill wiring tests OK, you simply need a new CDI. I will not list out CDI test procedures since you have concluded your CDI is bad and because if you test the CDI improperly, you will damage the unit.


If you want to check the charging feature of the stator:

(We assume that you have confirmed that the in-line fuse near the battery is good and that your battery is in good shape.)
1. Locate the 3 wire plastic plug from the stator. One wire is the black ground and the other two are the charging system.
2. The Orange wire with red stripe to ground should read about .4 ~ .5 ohms on the Eton and the same on the Kasea style.
3. The White wire to ground should read about .5 ohms on the Eton and .3 ~.5 on the Kasea style.

NOTE: You cannot interchange the Eton for the Kasea stator without the matching flywheel and there are two crank tapers that you will find. The Kasea style has a substantially higher voltage output for lighting.

For those who prefer pictures Spike has spent several hours putting together very detailed graphics for your use. Click the links for some excellent detailed pictures

[Bill Lemans]

Comp is good and spark is good......by gauge for the comp and visual for the spark.Pull your reed cage out of the case and make sure they aren't dirty or held open by dirt.One sign can be a spray/mist of gas hangin' out in the mouth of the carb intake when you turn it over.Pull the filter if you haven't already. I have had that happen on several ocassions.

I would still test your stator output and ohms since you only have a visual on the spark and a definate on the comp.If your getting strong spark the cdi is doing most of it's job. My only other thought would be the pulse generator(timing) signal either not getting to the cdi , or the cdi not functioning properly in that aspect.I don't know the internal working of the signals, but I would think that if you are getting spark, the cdi IS telling it when to spark.I'm sure someone here knows....

Here's a link that will be handy on the testing if you have a meter.If you don't, spend the 20.00 and kep your hair !!:D
http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=157383&highlight=stator+testing

Read the links and although it's says polaris it's quite close to the eton values I get. Concentrate on checking the primary(big coil)and even check the resistance across the coil pack itself, not just the wires coming out.

I fel your pain and only offer up the things I have experienced in the last few machines i owned.

:cool:

[Bill Lemans]

DOh !! :blah: etondaddy ,you beat me to it:D

I like that testing better, but couldn't find it. Will save it now.

[etondaddy]

Originally posted by Bill Lemans
DOh !! :blah: etondaddy ,you beat me to it:D

I like that testing better, but couldn't find it. Will save it now.
I used to have one printed and hanging in the trailer.....then I gave it to someone and never printed another one. That's one nice paper to have.

Mike Kozura

[vislaguy]

first off thanks for everyones input its all welcome,if it wasnt for this site I would be spending a fortune at the shop. bill, I do have this fog and mist coming back from the carb and the fog comes from a hole that is beside the throat. I have only used the electric start on all this what would be the difrence in kicking it over??? Ive been around my share of motors and the spark looks really strong I could swap a coil and check the stator I just dont feel thats it .so what would be with the carb fog or spray??? it seems the thing would run as is just maybe run rough but to not grab at all kills me??

[etondaddy]

Not sure why kicking it works but it does.......when Kyle's stock 50 would not start with the starter it would start with the kick starter. I believe you get a stronger turn over. Like when a kid trys to start it and then you kick it and it starts.

Mike Kozura

[Bill Lemans]

[i]so what would be with the carb fog or spray??? it seems the thing would run as is just maybe run rough but to not grab at all kills me?? [/B]


This can happen from a reed sticking open and the crankcase pressure forces it back out. Sometimes they will run , sometimes they won't.Clean the reeds and put them back on. What's the plug looking like ? Dry ? Wet? Oily ? Where is the plug arc going to ? Is it fouled by a cracked porcelain perhaps ? Try a new plug.

Far as the kickstarter goes, my thought is leverage is more than the force of that tiny little starter gear.

By the way, when it was my stator, i was VERY comfortable with how my spark looked.......I hope we're wrong cause it's about 70.00 for a new one.
;)

[ewathen]

is it a manual or auto choke? I have a 50 that wouldnt start for anything with and auto choke. Replaced it with the manual choke and it has started on the first try everytime since.

Eric

[vislaguy]

I thought I would never get thid thing to start.I dont know if you guys that dont live in the south have mud dobbers but they like to fill any hole they can find with mud and spiders including tailpipe holes it was totally blocked ,cleared it out and first try it started. thanks to everyones help

[vislaguy]

ok now that it runs I am having a problem with it bogging down at full throtlewith my wieght on it but it revs very fine if its on a block?? if I ride it down the road that is going down hill a little it will rev up all the way and really move but try to come back uphill a little and it bogs. Is this a clutch issue its all stock what would I do to fix that replace rollers and rear spring?? Im dont know much about these clutches yet . thanks mike

[dericsdad]

Mike, your learning a lot about these things already. I can't remember, did you clean the carb yet?? Otherwise the clutches is the first place to look, like you said, check for flat rollers/stuck variator, week torque spring. How's the compression now that you got it running???

sounds like you have got to big of rollers or your needle needs the clip raised to drop the needle. main might be to big pilot to big something there in carb or rollers