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troybilt
09-06-2008, 07:53 AM
Can someone that has or had both machines the 700 and the 525 give me an honest comparison? I was all but ready to go with the 700XX for my next quad then Polaris re-did the look of the outlaw and I like it better than the old one, and I've been leaning that way.

How would you compare the power? For sand, woods, etc...
How would you compare the fit and finish? Honda has always been excellent here.

Is the extra 40 lbs on the 700XX noticeable? How do the suspensions compare?

I'd like to hear from unbias real folks. I'm looking to get something new after the first of the year.

Any rumors for the 09 Honda's?

Thanks,
T

vtt
09-06-2008, 05:14 PM
It's not an extra 40lbs!!! It's about 70lbs and that's huge!
Read the last issue of Dirt Wheels. They say it wasn't hard to decide that the Outlaw is the best ATV of the two.

GE4x4
09-06-2008, 05:35 PM
Weight is quite a bit. The Outlaw is 389 dry, then add about 25-30lbs for fluids, and your at 414lbs- 419lbs. The 700xx is 505lbs wet. So it about 86-91 lbs difference, and that is a lot. The 700xx does have EFI which is nice, but the 525 runs real well to. I think both are great quads, so either would make someone happy. One thing that would hold me back more on the 700xx, is wheel and tire selection for the rear. A 10" wheel won't fit, and a 11" tire no one makes that is worth anything. So your pretty much stuck with stock for trail rideing. If Polaris can make a IRS sport that can use a 9" wheel, then there is no reason why Honda could not.

trailin'me
09-07-2008, 11:47 PM
id be willing to bet there is a real good reason honda did things the way they did ...everyone knows honda NEVER releases anything without years and years of research and field trials.

at the end of the day ... equal riders on a hare scramble or maybe even some TT races... the honda wil spank that outlaw...

ast thing ...after 2 years of owning each ..comparing honda and polaris as a whole ...which one you think will cost more to operate.

i guess it comes to what you plan on doing with it... you want raw power and legendary reliability with cutting edge technology..or you want old tired end of its lifecycle? 6 months from now people will be making excuses as to why they are getting beat is because of the unfair IRS honda has perfected.

scuzz
09-08-2008, 09:50 AM
The polaris controls and fit and finish look like it was made in China.

blbraptor
09-08-2008, 10:50 AM
The fit and finish of the XX is far and above that of the Outlaw. I would think that the 09' Polaris has closed that gap a bit though.

If you compared the two side by side, I have no doubt that you would think that the XX is a much better engineered machine.

As far as the weight goes, I had a 03' Raptor, now I have the XX. The weight is not noticeable to me at all. The Outlaw is more "flickable", but the XX just blasts thru everything you point it at. I was on the fence about which one to buy myself and couldn't be any happier with my decision.

As far as the 11-inch rim, I wouldn't worry about it. Maxxis will have a tire out soon, and I'm sure that ITP will follow. The aftermarket is jumping on the XX at a much faster rate than they did with the Outlaw.

dynofox
09-08-2008, 06:19 PM
Originally posted by trailin'me
id be willing to bet there is a real good reason honda did things the way they did ...everyone knows honda NEVER releases anything without years and years of research and field trials.

at the end of the day ... equal riders on a hare scramble or maybe even some TT races... the honda wil spank that outlaw...

ast thing ...after 2 years of owning each ..comparing honda and polaris as a whole ...which one you think will cost more to operate.

i guess it comes to what you plan on doing with it... you want raw power and legendary reliability with cutting edge technology..or you want old tired end of its lifecycle? 6 months from now people will be making excuses as to why they are getting beat is because of the unfair IRS honda has perfected.

What do you feel is more cutting edge about the XX over the outlaw other than efi? The magazines sure haven't praised the handling of this machine. I honestly can't believe honda released this machine weighing so much more than its only competitor. I've spent a lot of time on the 525irs outlaw and really enjoyed the machine, great power even stock and the suspension is very good. Not that looks should be a purchase decision but the 09 outlaw looks much better than the honda IMO, even the 06-08 outlaws look better.

suprdavtn
09-08-2008, 06:36 PM
the honda was weighed in at 550lbs by the baja team. They were pretttty pissed that honda whould only sponcer them if they took it to the 500 and 1000 bajas. this is not close, my ds sitsbecause it weights 460 lbs. let the honda live on it's old rep. answer one question. in one catagory of all the honda's are they the leader in? get back with me on that one. love my 525 irs, it is the best quod i have ever rode.

GE4x4
09-08-2008, 06:42 PM
I would also like to know where all this cutting edge is that the 700xx has over the Outlaw!! I've been racing the Outlaw since it's start, and has been rock solid and very reliable. It's true the fit and finish isn't the best, but from what I've seen from the 09, much of that is taken care of. But the performace to me is where I love the Outlaw. Not taken anything away from the 700xx, as it's nice to see another sport IRS. But IMHO, Honda didn't do it justice. I know you guys who bought them feel different, and I would to. But I talk to a lot of die hard Honda guys at the races and they think Honda droped the ball on this one and put it out to quick and should of thought more about it. The 11" wheels was a big one, but also the looks, the reverse location, the weight, and all that plastic down at the bottom of the frame. Honda has been around for many years, so if Polaris can build a IRS sport around 400lbs with 9" wheels and work great. Then Honda should of had no problem doing the same.

trailin'me
09-08-2008, 09:13 PM
so what yall are saying ... you want the same old tired thing over and over ...in other words ..same **** different day sort of thing>? Why is everyone so caught up on weight? Weight is irrelevant on a hare scramble for the most part ...

Truth is ...everyone tries to justify his or her purchase and most will defend their justifications...

Same sort of things with people that say they cant hear with helmets on ... or it interferes with their vision ..or you cant move as well with a chest protector ..blah blah blah

I mapped my trx700xx today ...and even finetuned it ...and ive ridden all kinds of quads ... this quad shines on every front ...it might not be the absolute best at one particular thing ... but its very good at everything you throw at it...

No one can deny hondas legendary reliability and engineering ...it just cant be done.... and honestly ..i cant remember the last time someone went to purchase a sport quad and left it bone stock ... unleash 10 or 12more hp on this 686 fuel injected motor and my friends ..you havea beast.

dynofox
09-08-2008, 09:37 PM
Originally posted by trailin'me
so what yall are saying ... you want the same old tired thing over and over ...in other words ..same **** different day sort of thing>? Why is everyone so caught up on weight? Weight is irrelevant on a hare scramble for the most part ...

Truth is ...everyone tries to justify his or her purchase and most will defend their justifications...

Same sort of things with people that say they cant hear with helmets on ... or it interferes with their vision ..or you cant move as well with a chest protector ..blah blah blah

I mapped my trx700xx today ...and even finetuned it ...and ive ridden all kinds of quads ... this quad shines on every front ...it might not be the absolute best at one particular thing ... but its very good at everything you throw at it...

No one can deny hondas legendary reliability and engineering ...it just cant be done.... and honestly ..i cant remember the last time someone went to purchase a sport quad and left it bone stock ... unleash 10 or 12more hp on this 686 fuel injected motor and my friends ..you havea beast.

In this case the same old is a better handling chassis / lighter than the latest / greatest. I would think that weight would most certainly matter in XC / hare scrambles, a rider will be less tired riding a lighter machine. I just thought with honda's background they would have come out with something that was better than the outlaw in every respect since they've had a few years to "one up" polaris. This didn't happen unfortunately.

Don't get me wrong I like Honda and know they make good machines, I own 2 250Rs; the best machines Honda ever made. :D

trailin'me
09-08-2008, 10:24 PM
Originally posted by dynofox
In this case the same old is a better handling chassis / lighter than the latest / greatest. I would think that weight would most certainly matter in XC / hare scrambles, a rider will be less tired riding a lighter machine.

are you kidding me? look at what you just said... what tires a rider is getting beat the hell up in whoops and landings .... so while you are all leaning over on one side of your solid axle trying to get your 60-100lb lighter machine to turn around a corner ... my IRS honda is sticking the turn while im gassing through it and accelerating at the same time.

you could look at this with 2 ways of thinking.... you cant even compare the ride of IRS with a solid axle ... sorry ... thats like the difference between a go-cart and a cadillac. granted ..if you are talking a completely flat track 1/8 mile oval ...sure the weight is very important ..and the solid rear axle is probably better ... id catch you in the turns though...

as far as weight ... in reality ..when one gets his or her sport quad set up ...bumpers ...skid plates... steering dampeners ... steering stems ...ect ... weight is not so much of a factor


what im saying is there is a huge difference between say 200lbs and 500lbs ...but 400lbs and 500lbs ... not really ...especially when the added torque and hp of the larger motor more than makes up for the weight difference...

lastly ..i would much rather take that 100lbs and use it to ride through some ruts or even make some for you to get high centered on ..than to skim over the top of them with a solid axle feeling every last crack on the trail or course... then when you are all beat up and tired ..ill go ride a few more hours ..then go jump rope ..and maybe to the club and have some beers whie you try to sleep and are sore the next morning and then we will talk about what tires out a rider.

this same argument would hold true with say .. a zx14 and a r1 ..or a hayabusa and a gxr600... you can go pound the **** outta yourself on one of those smaller bikes

and about the magazines ...i prefer to judge from my own real world knowledge and experience... and i like stuff that pushes the envelope ... and takes chances ..and sparks innovation ...and in the case of the trx700 ..honda again has led the pack .. and as previously mentioned ... most of the aftermarket manufacturers agree ...times are changing...so you gonna believe the magazines ..or you gonna believe the manufacturers of aftermarket parts?

oh ..instead of maybe making suspension fit the existing infrastructure .. Honda ... said FK it ..well make it kick *** ...and make it perfect ... no matter what ..and we will see what happens ...without cutting corners. They aren't stupid ...like i said ...next season will be one for honda atvs ... and the cycle of catch up and out-do will begin again ..thus ... innovation and more radical changes will surface ..so it will be good for all

suprdavtn
09-09-2008, 04:47 AM
ohhhhh did this come out in 05 like the outlaw? cutting what. did not the cannondale have fi. what in the hell are you talking about cutting edge. i dont get it. did not the outlaw get irs with 20 extra pounds. i checked it out before i got te 525. you do not geeeeet it if you dont know why the 150lbs matters. i dont think we can help you understand. I do truly hope you enjoy the 700xx with sincerity. david

troybilt
09-09-2008, 05:14 AM
I read some of the extra weight is do to the centered gear drive, basically an extra set of gears to move the chain and final drive to the center of the chassis. How much does this improve the suspension geometry? ...vs. weight addition and power-loss?

For a larger rider, which machine has more room?

The 11" wheels don't bother me that much. I run 10's on my 250R what's another inch anyway.... :D :D :D

Weight to me isn't that much of a big deal... sure in the dunes, the lighter the better, (which is the majority of my riding). Although with an IRS machine, I'm may do alot more trail riding since that is what is close to my home.

What about power delivery? I read the 525 absolutely screams, the magazine articles I read on the 700XX claim this is a pretty mellow engine? Is that true? ...in your opinion?

I'll be honest, I'm a Honda and Polaris fan. So the brand name is a mute point to me. I'm really torn bw the two IRS machines. I didn't like the look of the older Outlaw's but I really like the 09's otherwise it was an easy decision before.

dynofox
09-09-2008, 06:31 AM
Originally posted by trailin'me
are you kidding me? look at what you just said... what tires a rider is getting beat the hell up in whoops and landings .... so while you are all leaning over on one side of your solid axle trying to get your 60-100lb lighter machine to turn around a corner ... my IRS honda is sticking the turn while im gassing through it and accelerating at the same time.

you could look at this with 2 ways of thinking.... you cant even compare the ride of IRS with a solid axle ... sorry ... thats like the difference between a go-cart and a cadillac. granted ..if you are talking a completely flat track 1/8 mile oval ...sure the weight is very important ..and the solid rear axle is probably better ... id catch you in the turns though...

as far as weight ... in reality ..when one gets his or her sport quad set up ...bumpers ...skid plates... steering dampeners ... steering stems ...ect ... weight is not so much of a factor


what im saying is there is a huge difference between say 200lbs and 500lbs ...but 400lbs and 500lbs ... not really ...especially when the added torque and hp of the larger motor more than makes up for the weight difference...

lastly ..i would much rather take that 100lbs and use it to ride through some ruts or even make some for you to get high centered on ..than to skim over the top of them with a solid axle feeling every last crack on the trail or course... then when you are all beat up and tired ..ill go ride a few more hours ..then go jump rope ..and maybe to the club and have some beers whie you try to sleep and are sore the next morning and then we will talk about what tires out a rider.

this same argument would hold true with say .. a zx14 and a r1 ..or a hayabusa and a gxr600... you can go pound the **** outta yourself on one of those smaller bikes

and about the magazines ...i prefer to judge from my own real world knowledge and experience... and i like stuff that pushes the envelope ... and takes chances ..and sparks innovation ...and in the case of the trx700 ..honda again has led the pack .. and as previously mentioned ... most of the aftermarket manufacturers agree ...times are changing...so you gonna believe the magazines ..or you gonna believe the manufacturers of aftermarket parts?

oh ..instead of maybe making suspension fit the existing infrastructure .. Honda ... said FK it ..well make it kick *** ...and make it perfect ... no matter what ..and we will see what happens ...without cutting corners. They aren't stupid ...like i said ...next season will be one for honda atvs ... and the cycle of catch up and out-do will begin again ..thus ... innovation and more radical changes will surface ..so it will be good for all

Please re-read my post, when I was comparing the 700xx to the "same old" I was referring to the outlaw IRS which you stated is now getting old, I wasn't comparing it to a straight axle. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree about the weight issue, 30lbs is a noticeable difference let alone close to 100lbs. The point I was trying to make is if a rider wants IRS and wants a relatively lightweight one at that, the outlaw 525 irs fits the bill nicely. As far as the magazine comment, I do agree with you about that, the test riders opinion is no better than yours or mine, the only difference is they are getting paid to do so.

blbraptor
09-09-2008, 07:51 AM
Originally posted by troybilt
I read some of the extra weight is do to the centered gear drive, basically an extra set of gears to move the chain and final drive to the center of the chassis. How much does this improve the suspension geometry? ...vs. weight addition and power-loss?

For a larger rider, which machine has more room?

The 11" wheels don't bother me that much. I run 10's on my 250R what's another inch anyway.... :D :D :D

Weight to me isn't that much of a big deal... sure in the dunes, the lighter the better, (which is the majority of my riding). Although with an IRS machine, I'm may do alot more trail riding since that is what is close to my home.

What about power delivery? I read the 525 absolutely screams, the magazine articles I read on the 700XX claim this is a pretty mellow engine? Is that true? ...in your opinion?

I'll be honest, I'm a Honda and Polaris fan. So the brand name is a mute point to me. I'm really torn bw the two IRS machines. I didn't like the look of the older Outlaw's but I really like the 09's otherwise it was an easy decision before.

Supposedly the centered gear drive allows the XX to have identical length drive shafts (which means they claim that the Polaris does not), which allows the suspension to move in a symetrical manner. I have noticed that the Outlaw pulls to one side much more than the XX. I wouldn't get caught up in the weight. Everyone gets so worked up about it, and for most of us average trail riders, it just doesn't make a difference.
AS far as the power delivery, the Outlaw definitely is a screamer, and it does pull harder off the bottom. But you have to keep it up in the rpm range much more than the XX. The power of the XX is definitely "linear", as has been said in all the magazines. It does seem mellow off of the bottom. But it is also deceptive. Once you hit about half throttle, the XX just erupts to life, and it has MASSIVE power. It is just not "violent" like some were expecting it to be. I've never owned a Honda, but I've heard that they are typically conservative. But the XX repotedly has 62hp stock, so the ponies are in there.
If you trail ride a lot, you will be happy with either machine. The XX is a more comfortable ride. The new Outlaw looks much more like the 450's, in that it looks like you sit "on them" as opposed to "in them". I myself prefer the latter. Take a look at both, you can't really go wrong. I chose the XX, and I'm glad I did.

Blak92
09-09-2008, 03:04 PM
I rode the Outlaw, and the 700XX on the same day. I planned on putting one of the 2 into the back of the truck and take it home. My raptor had started beating my up. My now 3 time dislocated right shoulder and damaged right hip from beeing thrown from a car at 100MPH was starting to bother me and needed a softer ride (now at 30yrs old as of sept 1st). I rode the outlaw first. The 525 felt very snappy, moreso than the XX, but only from below a 5mph roll in first... anything faster than that and it seemed like the XX would have walked away from it... WALKED, not ran. Im coming from a 03 raptor, so Im use to having a bit more machine under me, not that im a big rider, im only 5'11" and 165lb. The outlaw was comfortable, and I did like where reverse was. But something just didnt fit me on it. I didnt like the plastic on it so much, things just sorta felt cheap for some reason, welds had spatter all around them... frame was already showing a few rust spots from a poor paint job... I could scratch it off with my fingernail in those spots, one of the 2 there wouldnt start, etc etc.... It did seem to handle well, not much better than the XX. You can pick the front up a little easier than the XX, but the rear seemed close, still a little heavier on the XX but Im no b1t(h, I can handle it. The second my fiance saw my face while riding the XX, she leaned over to the sales guy and said he could consider it sold... When I got done riding it and walked over to them and said I would take it, they both started laughing. Does the XX push? Sure, so did the outlaw. Are the 11" wheels a pain in the arse right now? Sure, but the thing has only been out for what, 6 months? Do you really think that they would have released this thing without talking to the aftermarket about making tires for the freaking thing? Maybe :ermm: . But Razrs will be coming. My bike is stock right now, Im not leaving it that way... Ive got rear elkas on the way for my XX and the fiances VForce cause the springs are for someone heavier than we are... so what? I can understand why they sprung them that hard... they gotta fit the majority and lighter springs for a fat dude would be dangerous. I dont think that the XX is getting a just welcome... I think that most people are still pissed that Honda even went IRS.... I think they wanted it to be a SRA so someone could finally bump off the raptor. The raptor is like the Yankees, or Jeff Gordon.... everyone hates em cause they are (or have been, dont follow either) good at what they do and theyve had enough. A clear cut competitor from Honda is not what they got and thats what people are pissed about i think. Can it do everything better that my raptor or the 700R can do?? Heck no. But my raptor has been sitting in the shed colecting dust ever since I got this XX. I ride at Tower City, PA... Im sure its one of the most BS rocky places you can find to ride. My XX eats that place up all day long and goes where my raptor would have taken all day to get to or cost me a swing arm guard, spocket and chain.

Last thing I can think of aside from trail riding is jumping. SOOO much easier, and Forgiving than my raptor. Thing comes down off a jump like butter. At no point HAS IT EVER felt heavier in the air than my raptor... At no point have I come home from Tower the next day now that I have my XX wishing for a quick death from all the pain in my muscles like I would after riding the raptor. I just dont know how else to defend the XX on the weight issue other than those two points.

I compare most things to the raptor becuase I have not ridden any other SRA ATV other than the raptor. It was my first ATV, bought new in 2003. Im only assuming it would be simular to the SRA outlaw. I have not spent any trail time on an outlaw, nor have I raced one... But my XX has done everything I have asked it to do, and in many cases, but not all, better than my raptor. I am extremely pleased with it, and do not regret the purchase in the least.

vtt
09-09-2008, 07:00 PM
This thread is becoming a real joke. There's some guys here that can't feel the 80lbs difference between an Outlaw and a TRX700XX!!! You must ride like a chick, come on!!! Then, buy the TRX, it was made for you.

suprdavtn
09-10-2008, 05:10 AM
i dont get it. i dont know why you dont understand 100lbs matters, its huge. i had a hard time buying a polaris quad, no question about it, but the outlaw made me do it anyway and it has been a good decision. i expect to spend good money on it keeping it running because it is a popo but for this quad i will. anyone is going to have a hard time topping popo on this one.
a ktm on a 389lbs irs. honda has failed and many more will to. its a hard packlage to top. but i hope you get the one that makes you happy. ride them and pick. dont let us make your decision for you.

troybilt
09-10-2008, 06:48 AM
Originally posted by suprdavtn
dont let us make your decision for you.

I'm not. I happen to think both are good machines, and 7000k is not chump change. Sometimes, I don't think we get honest comparisons in magazine tests and I wanted to hear what you'all thought. I'm interested in the IRS cause of the terrain that is around here to ride. Currently, my 250R sits in the garage until we head to the dunes 1-2 times a year. I don't like taking it out on the muddy tight rocky trails that are close. So I don't get to ride much.

blbraptor
09-10-2008, 07:43 AM
Originally posted by vtt
This thread is becoming a real joke. There's some guys here that can't feel the 80lbs difference between an Outlaw and a TRX700XX!!! You must ride like a chick, come on!!! Then, buy the TRX, it was made for you.

When you make statements like that you come off as an a-hole and an idiot. I can guarantee you that I ride as fast as just about anyone on the trail, and I have never, ever thought that the XX felt heavy. Maybe some of its' handling characteristics have to do with the weight, but you simply cant "feel" it in my opinion. Maybe you are just such a better rider than everyone else that you can even tell when you need to take a crap due to the extra weight on the quad. Have you rode them both? If not, then you just don't know.

trailin'me
09-10-2008, 11:34 AM
uh ..yeah ... i promise you will feel the 80 less pounds going over every dune, rock, crack, rut, and crevice i leave while you are following me.... never mind the extra 10 or 15 hp and added torque.... i guess you would notice a 1/4 hp difference huh>?

Last night i ran my 700xx around a very short tt track ... and just as i predicted ... my 700xx shines on the turns and whoops ..while the polaris did better on larger jumps...

and yeah ..asshats that start calling names about riding like a girl ... why doesnt polaris ever place in baja races? I guess those honda trx700 riders ride like girls too? its obvious this outlaw rider has never ridden a 700xx... the only joke is the outlaw.

Blak92
09-10-2008, 01:00 PM
I dont know that I would call the outlaw a joke... its a helluva machine too, and you are right, I guess you can feel the weight on the LARGER jumps, as 6-7' high is all I get... I just dont do as much jumping anymore.
The major MX type stuff I have not ridden on this bike. But hare scramble, gncc type stuff???? I just dont see the weight showing on this thing, Id have to say its just as nimble if not moreso than my raptor, which was a tippy pig untill I put wider front wheels and durablue eliminator axle on. I have every intention of riding a bunch of harescrambles next year after I get really framiluar with this thing. Thats just what I love to ride and I think the XX while shine at that. IM not much into the big air... so what.
I dont know why we have to result to name calling, seems sorta BS and 15 yo/dish to me. Its not my fault Im an electrician/mechanic for a living and not willing to get busted up so I cant work and pay for my house, truck, guns, paintball, beer, race gas for my other truck, wedding and other crap.

I would have bought the outlaw, but it just didnt seem as nice a quality as I stated earlier. Hopefully they do get thier S in one bag for 2009 and later. I love buying USA. Maybe I'll get one later down the raod.

GE4x4
09-10-2008, 03:48 PM
Originally posted by trailin'me


and yeah ..asshats that start calling names about riding like a girl ... why doesnt polaris ever place in baja races? I guess those honda trx700 riders ride like girls too? its obvious this outlaw rider has never ridden a 700xx... the only joke is the outlaw.

The Outlaw IRS won the Dakar series this year which is considered the most punishing race out there. In fact 6 out of the top 11 were on Outlaw IRS quads. The Outlaw just won a huge race in Astralia. Look at the home page on this site and see. And what is really sweet about his win. He was allmost bone stock. We saw the winning Baja 700xx and he was far from stock.

scuzz
09-10-2008, 06:52 PM
^^^^

I'm not doubting you or calling you out, but would you mind linking us with something?

vtt
09-10-2008, 07:14 PM
Originally posted by trailin'me


and yeah ..asshats that start calling names about riding like a girl ... why doesnt polaris ever place in baja races? I guess those honda trx700 riders ride like girls too? its obvious this outlaw rider has never ridden a 700xx... the only joke is the outlaw.

Read Sept issue of QUAD magazine, page 104. Honda added for 10 691.00$ of add-ons and that's without the price of the exhaust which they consider to be priceless. I have every magazines, Americans and Europeans in which they tested the Outlaw or the TRX.
Doug Eichner also won a few races in WORCS series (before they banned 451cc and over) and yes, the Outlaw dominates many racing series around the world. The problem is that in USA, everybody is bashing about Polaris. I don't understand why you guys don't support your economy. I bought an Outlaw to support your economy instead of the Japanese economy. I also decided to buy a Z06 instead of a 350Z for the same reason and I'm not even American, I'm Canadian...

Good luck in your purchase, I'm outta here.

vtt
09-10-2008, 07:23 PM
Originally posted by scuzz
^^^^

I'm not doubting you or calling you out, but would you mind linking us with something?

http://www.atvrideronline.com/newsfront/0805_atvp_polaris_outlaw_dakar_series/index.html

http://www.atvriders.com/atvnews/polaris2008-australasian-safari-outlaw-atv.html

scuzz
09-11-2008, 08:38 AM
Damn, no 700XX's in that race:

http://www.rallyresults.com.au/safari2008/


I can't find if any were entered with the Baja 500 other than the RZR.

somewon
09-12-2008, 03:39 PM
If I may point out one small detail about Baja... Honda has probably the best support of any team out there. I think it would be more impressive if an independent rider had won, regardless of what machine they were on.

RATPACK Z400
09-14-2008, 10:51 AM
the irs will never beat sra inthe gnnc,if it was such a big advantage dont you think bill ballience or others would be racing them get real the irs is great in rocky ,muddy conditions but for racing they cant keep up with the sra,s smiley rode a outlaw and that year was worst than the year before when he was riding a sra quad so wheres this big advantage racing irs equiped quads only for the older riders that cant handle the abuse on there body that the sra quads give you people need toget real!

somewon
09-14-2008, 08:09 PM
ratpack,

Thank you for your opinion, I appreciate your off topic interjection in a conversation that is a discussion of IRS vs. IRS.

Typically, your comment should be placed into an existing thread along the same lines of discussion as your statement. If such a thread does not exist, please start a new thread with an appropriate title. I might suggest a title such as "opinions that don't matter" or "how to write a paragraph with only an exclamation point and three commas".

vtt
09-14-2008, 10:08 PM
LOL!!!!!

RATPACK Z400
09-14-2008, 10:45 PM
dont mean to be so harsh its that i read these posts and I keep hearing that these Irs quads are So great that the sra quads dont stand a chance in the woods against them when in the real world they dont come close to the handling a SRA can period. the honda failed in all its shootouts, the rapter and the outlaw are better handling period handling out shine on those two quads and the honda didnt maybe the 700xx can win against the kfx700?and whats up with those bigger tires in rear than front thats real g@y! its funny also than they call it a HIGH PERFORMANCE QUAD thats a joke!IT WON BAJA big deal theres only like 95% hondas quads racing its not hard to guess with brand going to win.

trailin'me
09-15-2008, 01:11 AM
Originally posted by RATPACK Z400
dont mean to be so harsh its that i read these posts and I keep hearing that these Irs quads are So great that the sra quads dont stand a chance in the woods against them when in the real world they dont come close to the handling a SRA can period. the honda failed in all its shootouts, the rapter and the outlaw are better handling period handling out shine on those two quads and the honda didnt maybe the 700xx can win against the kfx700?and whats up with those bigger tires in rear than front thats real g@y! its funny also than they call it a HIGH PERFORMANCE QUAD thats a joke!IT WON BAJA big deal theres only like 95% hondas quads racing its not hard to guess with brand going to win.

are you missing something ...cause i dont think you can possibly mean SRA handles better than IRA in the woods ...LOL. You must mean in a parking lot in a straight line ..that is absolutely so flat water does not flow ..it spreads. Go ride a trx700 man ..or kid .. or whatever ... and if you can still honestly say that polaris outlaw handles better ...then so be it.... im still wondering how exactly you think it handles better. Any reasonable person can concede that IRS is inevitabley better at handling just for the sole reason it has 4 different axis of travel independent from one another instead of 3..but im sure you understand the physics of suspension ..the only difficulty in having IRS is dialing it in correctly ..having the correct sway bar for your riding style/weight... ect.

you just said the very thing that everyone here has said ... 95% are hondas in the baja... why exactly do you think that is? Tell him what hes won bob.

The reason these IRS hondas do "poorly" in these tests is because these tests were designed for solid axle machines .... the IRS changes the rules on everything...

why havent pros used them ... uh ..maybe cause they weren't available? or maybe the polaris was the only one available for a bit and no one wanted to use it...

mark my words ..next season honda will own any most any event where the trx700 races.

who cares about tire size dood ... what does that have to do with anything ... keep on searching for meaningless reasons to hate because youre a polaris fanboy... which is fine.

I myself would prefer to buy american stuff ... but time and time again ive seen countless polaris atv's sitting in a shop ... granted. .. these are the sportsman autos ... or any polaris auto ...which gave automatic atv's a bad name ... but if there comes a time where polaris or canam or whomever makes something on american soil that can take the punishment these japanese manufacturers make ..then ill buy it. .. until then ..quality first.

blbraptor
09-15-2008, 07:06 AM
Well said, trailin'!!

scuzz
09-15-2008, 07:31 AM
Originally posted by trailin'me


I myself would prefer to buy american stuff ... but time and time again ive seen countless polaris atv's sitting in a shop ... granted.

I started riding a few weeks back but couldn't get a real coparison because he broke down. When it was running it did well.

I do have experience pulling a 525 IRS though.

08525IRS
09-15-2008, 05:52 PM
I have owned both machines, a 2007 Outlaw IRS525 and it broke on me with less then 5 hours on it. Fixed it and it broke again so no more Polaris for me. In fact, my friends 2007 polaris525 irs just lost all his plastics on the right of the bike, and his shifter just broke. Although they are minor fixes its annoying.

So I took it upon myself and blue booked out both bikes and come to see the honda was worth 1000 bucks more. Now hands down not saying the xx is a better bike, but the resale value amazed me which to me makes the honda a better investment from a business point of view.

I don't need to have the "BEST" for me I enjoy riding atv's for fun. I am going to put a exhaust, intake, and chip on my 700 and I am sure I will be happy.

trailin'me
09-15-2008, 06:14 PM
Originally posted by 08525IRS

I don't need to have the "BEST" for me I enjoy riding atv's for fun. I am going to put a exhaust, intake, and chip on my 700 and I am sure I will be happy.

dood ... you put a full exhaust and powercomannder on that 700xx ..and my friend ... happy will be an understatement ... i promise :D

scuzz
09-15-2008, 08:27 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by 08525IRS
I have owned both machines, a 2007 Outlaw IRS525 and it broke on me with less then 5 hours on it. Fixed it and it broke again so no more Polaris for me. In fact, my friends 2007 polaris525 irs [/QUOTE

Do you live in Texas?? Do you go riding at Red River Motorcycle and ATV?

08525IRS
09-15-2008, 08:34 PM
nope, west coast.

trailin'me
09-16-2008, 12:49 AM
no offense to polaris owners ..but they should really stick to making kick *** snowmobiles ..honda made a snowmobile once when ... like in 1971 and said fk that ... so they make kick *** bikes and atv's ... go back to sleds polaris ... plz.

they are getting better ...but still cant even hold ANY japanese manufactured atv's balls. Thats honestly a sad statement, but absolutely TRUE

so in reality ..what good is faster if you spend half or more of your time PAYING to fix it.

suprdavtn
09-16-2008, 05:10 AM
i guess if it is slow it wont break so buy the honda? are you stupid or something. the outlaws have been out for 4 years with no, no major problems. i hate polaris to , just hate honda more, thats all.

scuzz
09-16-2008, 07:30 AM
Originally posted by suprdavtn
i guess if it is slow it wont break so buy the honda? are you stupid or something. the outlaws have been out for 4 years with no, no major problems. i hate polaris to , just hate honda more, thats all.


What's to hate about Honda's Sport Quad lineup?

trailin'me
09-16-2008, 10:14 AM
Originally posted by suprdavtn
i guess if it is slow it wont break so buy the honda? are you stupid or something. the outlaws have been out for 4 years with no, no major problems. i hate polaris to , just hate honda more, thats all.

uhhh wow ..another child... every time someone types something like that your colors really shine heh. what an asshat

Read the title of the thread asshat ... where do you people come from?

08525IRS
09-16-2008, 12:57 PM
Originally posted by trailin'me
uhhh wow ..another child... every time someone types something like that your colors really shine heh. what an asshat

Read the title of the thread asshat ... where do you people come from?


couldn't agree more, *turns on the 13+ older filter*

To make everyone clear on my previous statement, I would only get IRS after riding SRA's for my entire life which leaves me with either the outlaw or the trx700. As far as straight up speed, the Outlaw IMO is faster stock for stock, but not by much. In fact, in the long race the 700 will pass the outlaw due to its tall 5th gear. I won't be keeping my 700 stock so well see what pushes more with some performance parts. The ONLY reason I am leaning towards the 700 is because its a reliable Honda, and to prove it they bumped up the factory warranty to 12 months. Honda has a great track record and I can't see them releasing this bike SO LATE into the 700 era (and 3 yrs. into IRS) and not get it right the first time.

Remember the outlaw is roughly 400 dry, but what is the WET weight with a full gas? I am not bashing either quad and neither should anyone here. In the end we all just want to have a good time and go out there and do what fits us best. It shouldn't matter whos is faster, kinda like mutual respect. I am sure anyone who owns either bike will be happy with the purchase.

somewon
09-16-2008, 01:13 PM
In the end we all just want to have a good time and go out there and do what fits us best. It shouldn't matter whos is faster, kinda like mutual respect. I am sure anyone who owns either bike will be happy with the purchase.


I couldn't agree more with this part of your statement. Really both machines are fighting against the same stigma, which is that IRS has value in a sport quad.

08525IRS
09-16-2008, 01:22 PM
In the end Honda/ Polaris are showing everyone the IRS belongs in the sport quad world. If you have not got the chance to ride ( and adjust) to the IRS, dont make comments cause everyone who has an IRS quad knows you can powerslide just as easy around corners. Besides, were both untouchable on the trials :)

CHIPPERBATES
09-16-2008, 03:44 PM
JUST TO LET YOU KNOW, THERE IS A COMPARISON IN THE MOST RECENT DIRT WHEELS MAG WHERE THE 700XX IS FASTER THAN THE OUTLAW IN A DRAG AND TOP SPEED, BY 3 MILES PER HOUR. THE OUTLAW WON THE SHOOT OUT BECAUSE OF THE HANDLING PROBLEMS IN GNCC TYPE TRACKS.IT ALSO SHEDS LIGHT ON WEIGHT,EVERYONE THINKS THE OUTLAW IS 100LBS LIGHTER, IN FACT THE READY TO RIDE WEIGHT I 444LBS(FOR 2009) 6 LBS LIGHTER THAN THE 2008 MODEL. I OWN THE 700XX AND I LOVE IT, DOES IT PUSH THE FRONT THROUGH TIGHT TURNS,YES CAN YOU CHANGE YOUR RIDING HABITS TO OVERCOME THIS PROBLEM,YES.

08525IRS
09-16-2008, 04:31 PM
Not saying I don't believe you but could you please post a link with proof and preff. Not in caps ;)

GE4x4
09-16-2008, 04:47 PM
The 444lbs wet for the 08 is close. Polaris video about the IRS said with 2 gal of gas, it weighed 428 lbs. With there 4 gal tank, you would add another 12lbs for the 2 gal and get about a 440 wet weight with the 08 Outlaw. The 09 Outlaw would be 12-13lbs lighter wet as it only has a 3 gal tank like the 700xx, and the 09's are 6lbs lighter then 08. So wet weight on the 09's should be about 427 - 428 lbs. Still near 80 lbs lighter. Now I've been racing the Outlaw since it's been out, and it has be solid with minor issues.

dynofox
09-16-2008, 05:00 PM
Originally posted by CHIPPERBATES
JUST TO LET YOU KNOW, THERE IS A COMPARISON IN THE MOST RECENT DIRT WHEELS MAG WHERE THE 700XX IS FASTER THAN THE OUTLAW IN A DRAG AND TOP SPEED, BY 3 MILES PER HOUR. THE OUTLAW WON THE SHOOT OUT BECAUSE OF THE HANDLING PROBLEMS IN GNCC TYPE TRACKS.IT ALSO SHEDS LIGHT ON WEIGHT,EVERYONE THINKS THE OUTLAW IS 100LBS LIGHTER, IN FACT THE READY TO RIDE WEIGHT I 444LBS(FOR 2009) 6 LBS LIGHTER THAN THE 2008 MODEL. I OWN THE 700XX AND I LOVE IT, DOES IT PUSH THE FRONT THROUGH TIGHT TURNS,YES CAN YOU CHANGE YOUR RIDING HABITS TO OVERCOME THIS PROBLEM,YES.

I'm not sure if you've ridden a 525 outlaw but they are geared low and run out of gear very quick, the motor easily has enough for another gear.

suprdavtn
09-16-2008, 06:49 PM
i am 39 been riding since i was 6 and got a honda xlt75 motor bike in 1975. ill bet i been riding longer than you have been using a toilet properly. dont get worked up over my comments. i remember when honda was the honda you believe them to be now. sports wise, do they lead in any class, how about any class period.

CHIPPERBATES
09-17-2008, 06:55 AM
I'M NOT GETTING WORKED UP ABOUT YOUR COMMENTS(IF YOU WERE REFERING TO ME) I'M JUST TRYING TO SHED SOME LIGHT ON THE THREAD, HOWEVER I AM 43 YRS OLD BEEN RIDING SINCE 1972 (HONDA QA 50) I HAVE BEEN RIDING ALONG TIME AS WELL. SO I THINK THAT ANY QUAD IMO IS GONNA BE FUN TO RIDE AROUND ON, I HAVE NEVER RIDDEN A POLARIS SO I ONLY NOW WHAT I READ IN THESE SHOOT OUTS IN THE MAGS. I DO KNOW THAT I HAVE A RAPTOR AND A HONDA, AND I LOVE THEM BOTH. THEY BOTH HAVE TRAITS THAT SUIT ME AND MY RIDING TYPE. I DO LIKE TO RIDE THE 700XX MORE BECAUSE OF THE WAY IT HANDLES. I THINK THAT ALL OF THESE QUADS ARE WORTH OWNING DEPENDING ON YOUR PERSONAL PREFERENCE.

trailin'me
09-17-2008, 09:21 AM
Im impressed ... many folks here have a very good understanding of sport atv's .... and I'm glad to have found a good forum with good members.

There are asstards everywhere that will never adapt with change.... or are so closed minded they will neve see the light (comments like SRA handles better in woods than IRA).

I'm no pro rider... dont claim to be one ... probably will never be one ... but i enjoy the hell outta good machines.

IRA does belong in the sport quad world ... and will continue to be a part of it ... Polaris introduced the IRA ... maybe a bit prematurely ... which set the tone for Honda to perfect and set the standard... only guaranteeing it will be here to stay.

One last thing ... IRA is good ..and it does work ... why on earth would the fastest race cars on the planet be using it if it didnt (F1).

CHIPPERBATES
09-17-2008, 02:57 PM
I FULLY AGREE WITH YOU TRAILING, I BELIEVE THE IRS QUADS ARE JUST YEARS AWAY FROM BECOMING BETTER THAN THEY ARE NOW, AND FULLY UTILIZED IN ALOT OF DIFFERENT RACES.

GE4x4
09-17-2008, 04:22 PM
Originally posted by trailin'me
.

IRA does belong in the sport quad world ... and will continue to be a part of it ... Polaris introduced the IRA ... maybe a bit prematurely ... which set the tone for Honda to perfect and set the standard... only guaranteeing it will be here to stay.


Why do you keep saying that Honda has set the standard on a IRS sport quad?? What is so better on the Honda then the Outlaw performance wise? What can the Honda do better then the Outlaw?? And don't say reliabilty as the 700xx has not been out enough, and very very few have them. The Outlaw just started there 4th year and have been very solid. I know you like your 700xx and it's is nice to see another irs sport quad. But to say they set the standard on a irs sport is rediculas.

suprdavtn
09-17-2008, 07:31 PM
what ge4#4 said, honda welcome to the party 4 yrs later and 125lbs fatter. better, pretty funny. i wonder what yall would say if the outlaw weighed 550lbs and the honda weighed 425lbs. what then?

vtt
09-17-2008, 09:48 PM
Originally posted by trailin'me


Polaris introduced the IRA ... maybe a bit prematurely ... which set the tone for Honda to perfect and set the standard... only guaranteeing it will be here to stay.
).

trailin' me: You are hilarious!!!

The only thing Honda does well, is to copy other brands' ideas (powersteering, IRS, EFI...)

trailin'me
09-18-2008, 12:54 AM
do you people even read what this thread is about. I guess not ... previous 2 posts above me are completely irrelevant.

If polaris IRS is so great ..why on earth has it won zero bajas? Just curious? Come on there fellas. Oh wait .. less than 2 months being released ... top 3 spots are hondas ..2 of which are 700xx's. Gee /shrug

If you used your common sense and knew anything at all about Honda v. Polaris ... hmmm

While polaris released their IRS PREMATURELY ... id be willing to bet every penny i have honda already had one and was PERFECTING IT before releasing it.

As far as how good it is ... the few of us that have them are fortunate enough to know exactly how good it is ... and will tell you its much better of a machine than any polaris ... minus their snowmobiles. being you dont have one .. you DO NOT have the luxury saying anything negative or positive about a 700xx... period.

Look at any trade in value ... look at the parts involved ... look at the engine heritage (ummm the legendary honda 650R baja racer ..cough cough)

year after year honda brings the highest resale value in ANYTHING they make... they make more engines for generators than polaris makes anything total... they know what they are doing.

Maybe if polaris had taken the few extra years to develop and PERFECT the IRS instead of being strapped for cash fixing all the warranty claims then we would be having a different discussion.... but we arent ..and honda is well ..honda .. and numbers dont lie....fanboy or not ... what i say here are facts indeed.

oh ... as far as copying .. i wonder who manufactured the first ATV? Hmmm ... gee ... scratch .... uhhh... guess ..and i bet its no where close to canada.... oh wait .. HONDA.

so if you wanna get technical there asstard kid ... seems your precious sled makers turned atv actually copied from Honda.

oh wait ..what about 4x4 four wheeler .. honda again ..what about a 4 wheeler in general ..hmmm guess who?

you see where this is going ..dont make stupid comments ok>? if you actually have something constructive to say ..by all means plz say it ... but if youre just gonna hate because youre a polaris fanboy ... go down to the teenage forums.

GE4x4
09-18-2008, 03:38 AM
Your basing all your info off a Baja win!! good one. The Rincon also won the Baja, so I guess that's the best 4x4 out to and has set the standard. Resale, yes there a bit higher, but they cost more to buy and they just came out, so not many used out there. Compare apples to apples. Wait a year and you will see no difference.

suprdavtn
09-18-2008, 04:45 AM
you can get more for the honda in the scrap yard too, ha haha!
hatfield mcoy in 2 weeks bring me the honda and show me. got money for your mouth? trailenme what is this perfected you speak of for i donot know. example please.

dynofox
09-18-2008, 06:23 AM
Originally posted by trailin'me
do you people even read what this thread is about. I guess not ... previous 2 posts above me are completely irrelevant.

If polaris IRS is so great ..why on earth has it won zero bajas? Just curious? Come on there fellas. Oh wait .. less than 2 months being released ... top 3 spots are hondas ..2 of which are 700xx's. Gee /shrug

If you used your common sense and knew anything at all about Honda v. Polaris ... hmmm

While polaris released their IRS PREMATURELY ... id be willing to bet every penny i have honda already had one and was PERFECTING IT before releasing it.

As far as how good it is ... the few of us that have them are fortunate enough to know exactly how good it is ... and will tell you its much better of a machine than any polaris ... minus their snowmobiles. being you dont have one .. you DO NOT have the luxury saying anything negative or positive about a 700xx... period.

Look at any trade in value ... look at the parts involved ... look at the engine heritage (ummm the legendary honda 650R baja racer ..cough cough)

year after year honda brings the highest resale value in ANYTHING they make... they make more engines for generators than polaris makes anything total... they know what they are doing.

Maybe if polaris had taken the few extra years to develop and PERFECT the IRS instead of being strapped for cash fixing all the warranty claims then we would be having a different discussion.... but we arent ..and honda is well ..honda .. and numbers dont lie....fanboy or not ... what i say here are facts indeed.

oh ... as far as copying .. i wonder who manufactured the first ATV? Hmmm ... gee ... scratch .... uhhh... guess ..and i bet its no where close to canada.... oh wait .. HONDA.

so if you wanna get technical there asstard kid ... seems your precious sled makers turned atv actually copied from Honda.

oh wait ..what about 4x4 four wheeler .. honda again ..what about a 4 wheeler in general ..hmmm guess who?

you see where this is going ..dont make stupid comments ok>? if you actually have something constructive to say ..by all means plz say it ... but if youre just gonna hate because youre a polaris fanboy ... go down to the teenage forums.

Honda built the first three wheeled ATV but Suzuki built the first quad.

Are you saying the ktm 525 doesn't have a strong racing heritage?

Can't you make comments on a public forum without name calling? :rolleyes:

blbraptor
09-18-2008, 07:59 AM
Originally posted by suprdavtn
what ge4#4 said, honda welcome to the party 4 yrs later and 125lbs fatter. better, pretty funny. i wonder what yall would say if the outlaw weighed 550lbs and the honda weighed 425lbs. what then?

Not to be nitpicky, but the XX weighs 508, not 550. Don't make it fatter than it is. I wish that everyone would get off the weight issue and move on to something else. If you were to ride one, you would realize that the extra weight really is a non-issue.

scuzz
09-18-2008, 09:07 AM
My perception is that, even though I really enjoy my 700xx, is that Honda has a game plan of playing it safe. The 700xx went away from that plan by being the second manufacturer to produce one. In my opinion, Honda ATV's aren't on the cutting edge, but that's not why I buy them, I buy them for their reliability. I don't care if I'm not the fastest, I do care however, that when I want to go riding...I can. That's not some off-handed remark about any other brand either.

For the people who both ride IRS 700XX's and Outlaw IRS', I think that we should work together and promote each other and keep the silly bench racing and internet talk to a minimum. I like you all, but it ultimately proves nothing. If we can prove to the other SRA riders that these do have a place in the sport quad world then we will all benefit from that greater buying power in both technology and us not fronting the R&D bill for every new "go-fast" part we buy.

Do I think my 700xx is fast? Yeah.

Do I think it's the fastest quad on the planet? No, but it's the best quad for me. I'm happy tooling around trails, seeing how much mud I can fling and how much roost I can make. (technical climbs would be a close 4th)

You see, ultimately it's me that has to fit on it, sit on it, repair it and most importantly, pay the note on it. If I don't like some things about it, I'm honest and forthcoming. Remember, I want this to be a better quad.

Anyway, thanks for taking the time to read this. I hope it helps.:)

blbraptor
09-18-2008, 09:34 AM
Nice post Scuzz. Well said.

08525IRS
09-18-2008, 10:00 AM
I agree, lets work together and push the after market support up on our bikes. In My Opinion Honda should not bash Polaris or vice versa. Yall are fighting with the wrong people. If your going to fight at all fight with the guys talkin crap about your so called "sport quad" having IRS.

trailin'me
09-18-2008, 02:14 PM
yeah maybe i got carried away ..and asstart or asshat is not name calling. Some kid called me stupid...

end of the day ..this 4 wheeler was designed for cross country/trail riding ...and it happens to be quite fast when the correct parts are added....

at cross country or even hill climing ..ive yet to ride a quad better suited ...

when i get this suspension installed ... i will give everyone here a very non-biased honest opnion of how it really handles on a TT track ..or even a completely flat track.... coming from a non pro --- ride every day type guy.

I'm guessing with the additional 2 inches of rear tire width and the roll design front with fox shocks ...it will not only land better ..but will no longer simply spin tires when the throttle is pushed ... this thing should hook up ..ride wheelies ... and land jumps with ease.

so im keeping my fingers crossed.

stock rear is 22x9x11 i just got some 22x11x11's ..so we will see.

blbraptor
09-18-2008, 03:54 PM
Where in the hell did you get an 22x11x11 tire??!!

somewon
09-19-2008, 12:38 AM
Originally posted by trailin'me
If polaris IRS is so great ..why on earth has it won zero bajas? Just curious? Come on there fellas. Oh wait .. less than 2 months being released ... top 3 spots are hondas ..2 of which are 700xx's. Gee /shrug


While polaris released their IRS PREMATURELY ... id be willing to bet every penny i have honda already had one and was PERFECTING IT before releasing it.

As far as how good it is ... the few of us that have them are fortunate enough to know exactly how good it is ... and will tell you its much better of a machine than any polaris ... minus their snowmobiles. being you dont have one .. you DO NOT have the luxury saying anything negative or positive about a 700xx... period.

Look at any trade in value ... look at the parts involved ... look at the engine heritage (ummm the legendary honda 650R baja racer ..cough cough)

year after year honda brings the highest resale value in ANYTHING they make... they make more engines for generators than polaris makes anything total... they know what they are doing.

Maybe if polaris had taken the few extra years to develop and PERFECT the IRS instead of being strapped for cash fixing all the warranty claims then we would be having a different discussion.... but we arent ..and honda is well ..honda .. and numbers dont lie....fanboy or not ... what i say here are facts indeed.




Ok, I completley agree with what 08525IRS said about not bashing, and I'm typing this only to try to set this strait.

1) An IRS machine is probably the best for Baja, but just like any long distance race if you don't have a great support team, like a factory Honda team, you are going to have an unbelievely hard time.

2) I wouldn't say that Polaris was premature, innovation is typically rarely perfect, I can deal with the weak wheel bearings (which are an easy fix) and the other small issues that come up. what's interesting is that Polaris was also the first to use IRS on a utility quad, now it's the standard.

I don't think Honda has been sitting on the XX for several years, I think they saw the 525, felt it was a worthwile market segment to develop in, and based their machine around what they thought would be the best improvements to make. I think they did the exact same thing when the YFZ450 came out. but I don't work for Honda so that's just my opinion.

3) why is it that you say if we don't own a XX we can't say anything negative about them, but most of your post bags on a quad you don't own?

4) you suggest that Polaris should take a few more years to perfect IRS, what exactly is wrong with the Outlaw 525? Please explain this, because I'm a little confused.

-Adam

trailin'me
09-19-2008, 02:23 AM
Originally posted by somewon
Ok, I completley agree with what 08525IRS said about not bashing, and I'm typing this only to try to set this strait.

1) An IRS machine is probably the best for Baja, but just like any long distance race if you don't have a great support team, like a factory Honda team, you are going to have an unbelievely hard time.

I completely agree

[i]
2) I wouldn't say that Polaris was premature, innovation is typically rarely perfect, I can deal with the weak wheel bearings (which are an easy fix) and the other small issues that come up. what's interesting is that Polaris was also the first to use IRS on a utility quad, now it's the standard.[/B]

And there are still some that will say SRA is better on a ute ..which we all know is BS. Polaris did introduce IRS on a ute ... but the rest of the quad was poop... after a few years they have come a long way in quality (I dont think they use rotax motors anymore ... and i cant figure out if thats good or bad)

[i]
I don't think Honda has been sitting on the XX for several years, I think they saw the 525, felt it was a worthwile market segment to develop in, and based their machine around what they thought would be the best improvements to make. I think they did the exact same thing when the YFZ450 came out. but I don't work for Honda so that's just my opinion.[/B]

I think its pretty much common knowledge that Honda ..and probably the other Japanese brands sit on most products they have and keep them in development for a long while ..sometimes years ... on their cars ..sometimes more than 10 years... huge corporations can afford to do this.. something Polaris is not.

[i]
3) why is it that you say if we don't own a XX we can't say anything negative about them, but most of your post bags on a quad you don't own?[/B]

Have you ridden a 700xx? I really doubt it. If you have ...by all means say what you will about it... that comment was meant for people that just hate to hate with no real world knowledge or experience on the machine. I have 2 friends with polaris quads ..both have spent as much if not more time in the shop than being ridden. its about an 8 to 1 ratio ... 8 hours of riding ... 1 weekend in the shop. Thats no exaggeration.

[i]
4) you suggest that Polaris should take a few more years to perfect IRS, what exactly is wrong with the Outlaw 525? Please explain this, because I'm a little confused.[/B]

I suggest Polaris ... take more time in R&D instead of using what little budget they have on Fluff and hype. I myself would not like to spend 5-8k on a quad with a pretty wrapper looking like it should be all that only to be disappointed time and time again. No one goes to buy a polaris knowing its going to run and run and run no matter what ... Go look at honda buyers ... they dont even question reliability... I dont think it even crosses honda owners minds... Granted ... Polaris has come a long way in quality and reliability, but they still have a few more years to prove to me ..and most of the atv enthusiast market they can take what a honda or yamaha or suzuki, or kawasaki can.

Every manufacturer has horror stories ... no doubt at all, but every shop I've ever visited... overwhelmingly disproportionate amounts of Polaris quads are getting worked on. Thats a fact no one can deny. I pay attention ...and I hope one day a North American company can make something to compete on EVERY LEVEL of quality and reliability with our Japanese counterparts.

lastly ... last week i was talking with a polaris owner ... picked up a brand new outlaw ..wasn't happy with the plastics on it he said ... but was trying to support the American economy. Financed it through his credit union ... bought wheels ..tires ... bars ... intalled them all ... went out in his back yard ... 20 minutes into breaking it in ... in 2nd gear going 20mph roughly ... the 4 wheeler threw his *** over the handlebars.... the shaft bent out of the bearings ... seized the motor ... broke everything inside that meant anything at all to running ... and well ... polaris is trying to say he did something to the motor. Well yeah ... he was breaking it in as per common knowlege ... low-mid rpm sweeps in 1-3 gears.. and now he is still arguing with polaris.... he spray painted the quad bright orange ... and put a posterboard on it saying anchor for sale.

Blak92
09-19-2008, 03:27 AM
TRAILINME, where you get those tires from??

bossman525
09-21-2008, 10:02 AM
Originally posted by scuzz
My perception is that, even though I really enjoy my 700xx, is that Honda has a game plan of playing it safe. The 700xx went away from that plan by being the second manufacturer to produce one. In my opinion, Honda ATV's aren't on the cutting edge, but that's not why I buy them, I buy them for their reliability. I don't care if I'm not the fastest, I do care however, that when I want to go riding...I can. That's not some off-handed remark about any other brand either.

For the people who both ride IRS 700XX's and Outlaw IRS', I think that we should work together and promote each other and keep the silly bench racing and internet talk to a minimum. I like you all, but it ultimately proves nothing. If we can prove to the other SRA riders that these do have a place in the sport quad world then we will all benefit from that greater buying power in both technology and us not fronting the R&D bill for every new "go-fast" part we buy.

Do I think my 700xx is fast? Yeah.

Do I think it's the fastest quad on the planet? No, but it's the best quad for me. I'm happy tooling around trails, seeing how much mud I can fling and how much roost I can make. (technical climbs would be a close 4th)

You see, ultimately it's me that has to fit on it, sit on it, repair it and most importantly, pay the note on it. If I don't like some things about it, I'm honest and forthcoming. Remember, I want this to be a better quad.

Anyway, thanks for taking the time to read this. I hope it helps.:)
nice quote scuzz........now get that idiot trailinme or whatever his name is to feel the same way. being that we are both IRS i liked coming to this forum also being that i ride a outlaw. but i dont think i will come over here any more seeing that there is ONE guy that thinks he has the best quad in the world. who gives a **** which one is faster, lighter, turns better, and looks better. he reminds me of one of those guys that always told people as a kid that his dad was tougher. in the end they are both great quads. i'm done.

09-21-2008, 10:59 AM
ahh ive always hated polaris and when my buddy bought the 525 i bout beat his *** but soon enough i proved him wrong and its sitting in the shop right now,hehehe ,he got lucky they gave him a refund and he got the raptor 700r!

09-21-2008, 11:03 AM
Originally posted by trailin'me
I completely agree


And there are still some that will say SRA is better on a ute ..which we all know is BS. Polaris did introduce IRS on a ute ... but the rest of the quad was poop... after a few years they have come a long way in quality (I dont think they use rotax motors anymore ... and i cant figure out if thats good or bad)


I think its pretty much common knowledge that Honda ..and probably the other Japanese brands sit on most products they have and keep them in development for a long while ..sometimes years ... on their cars ..sometimes more than 10 years... huge corporations can afford to do this.. something Polaris is not.


Have you ridden a 700xx? I really doubt it. If you have ...by all means say what you will about it... that comment was meant for people that just hate to hate with no real world knowledge or experience on the machine. I have 2 friends with polaris quads ..both have spent as much if not more time in the shop than being ridden. its about an 8 to 1 ratio ... 8 hours of riding ... 1 weekend in the shop. Thats no exaggeration.


I suggest Polaris ... take more time in R&D instead of using what little budget they have on Fluff and hype. I myself would not like to spend 5-8k on a quad with a pretty wrapper looking like it should be all that only to be disappointed time and time again. No one goes to buy a polaris knowing its going to run and run and run no matter what ... Go look at honda buyers ... they dont even question reliability... I dont think it even crosses honda owners minds... Granted ... Polaris has come a long way in quality and reliability, but they still have a few more years to prove to me ..and most of the atv enthusiast market they can take what a honda or yamaha or suzuki, or kawasaki can.

Every manufacturer has horror stories ... no doubt at all, but every shop I've ever visited... overwhelmingly disproportionate amounts of Polaris quads are getting worked on. Thats a fact no one can deny. I pay attention ...and I hope one day a North American company can make something to compete on EVERY LEVEL of quality and reliability with our Japanese counterparts.

lastly ... last week i was talking with a polaris owner ... picked up a brand new outlaw ..wasn't happy with the plastics on it he said ... but was trying to support the American economy. Financed it through his credit union ... bought wheels ..tires ... bars ... intalled them all ... went out in his back yard ... 20 minutes into breaking it in ... in 2nd gear going 20mph roughly ... the 4 wheeler threw his *** over the handlebars.... the shaft bent out of the bearings ... seized the motor ... broke everything inside that meant anything at all to running ... and well ... polaris is trying to say he did something to the motor. Well yeah ... he was breaking it in as per common knowlege ... low-mid rpm sweeps in 1-3 gears.. and now he is still arguing with polaris.... he spray painted the quad bright orange ... and put a posterboard on it saying anchor for sale.

lmfao thats what happend to my buddys but he went to the dealer ship and raised h311:devil: and got refunded and got the raptor 700r

GE4x4
09-21-2008, 01:35 PM
Originally posted by trailin'me
I completely agree


lastly ... last week i was talking with a polaris owner ... picked up a brand new outlaw ..wasn't happy with the plastics on it he said ... but was trying to support the American economy. Financed it through his credit union ... bought wheels ..tires ... bars ... intalled them all ... went out in his back yard ... 20 minutes into breaking it in ... in 2nd gear going 20mph roughly ... the 4 wheeler threw his *** over the handlebars.... the shaft bent out of the bearings ... seized the motor ... broke everything inside that meant anything at all to running ... and well ... polaris is trying to say he did something to the motor. Well yeah ... he was breaking it in as per common knowlege ... low-mid rpm sweeps in 1-3 gears.. and now he is still arguing with polaris.... he spray painted the quad bright orange ... and put a posterboard on it saying anchor for sale.

This is the most BS I have ever heard. The engine would of been covered under warrenty at 1st unless the dealer saw something that the guy did to cause the break down. Plus how do you loose 2nd gear, then at the same time sieze the engine?? Did the guy even have oil in it?? Sure sounds like someone making up a story.:rolleyes:

dynofox
09-21-2008, 01:57 PM
Originally posted by GE4x4
This is the most BS I have ever heard. The engine would of been covered under warrenty at 1st unless the dealer saw something that the guy did to cause the break down. Plus how do you loose 2nd gear, then at the same time sieze the engine?? Did the guy even have oil in it?? Sure sounds like someone making up a story.:rolleyes:

I believe Polaris gets the KTM motors fully assembled from KTM, if this is in fact true then these customers should not bash Polaris as its KTM's fault. Either way if this truly is a problem the dealer should be able to get it warrantied no problem.

GE4x4
09-21-2008, 02:20 PM
Originally posted by dynofox
I believe Polaris gets the KTM motors fully assembled from KTM, if this is in fact true then these customers should not bash Polaris as its KTM's fault. Either way if this truly is a problem the dealer should be able to get it warrantied no problem.

That's what I was meaning. If this story was true, it would of been warrentied no questions asked. Especially if only 20 min of time on it. And no one is going to spray paint a $7000 quad with only 20 min on it. Sounds like someone adding a bunch more to a story to bash Polaris. These KTM engines have been out for years and I have never heard of any issues that was told here. But it's no secret that trailinme doesn't like Polaris and is bashing to make himself feel good.

quadme
09-22-2008, 09:47 PM
Originally posted by GE4x4
That's what I was meaning. If this story was true, it would of been warrentied no questions asked. Especially if only 20 min of time on it. And no one is going to spray paint a $7000 quad with only 20 min on it. Sounds like someone adding a bunch more to a story to bash Polaris. These KTM engines have been out for years and I have never heard of any issues that was told here. But it's no secret that trailinme doesn't like Polaris and is bashing to make himself feel good.

What the hell!!!

KTM engines are the best engine sout there, they win every outdoor competition specially the 450 and 525!!!!
And POLARIS worked on the IRS more years than HONDA did, knowing that Honda copied it!!!!

To resome it:

The XX is just an old engine inside a brand new chassis (oh oh), with the suspension of a POLARIS copy!!!!!!!

quadme
09-22-2008, 09:49 PM
Plus;

If you want to ride your grandma around your backyard, buy the HONDA!!!

But if you plan on serious fast riding; buy the POLARIS!

09-22-2008, 10:00 PM
Originally posted by quadme
What the hell!!!

KTM engines are the best engine sout there, they win every outdoor competition specially the 450 and 525!!!!
And POLARIS worked on the IRS more years than HONDA did, knowing that Honda copied it!!!!

To resome it:

The XX is just an old engine inside a brand new chassis (oh oh), with the suspension of a POLARIS copy!!!!!!!

bu11$h!77 polaris didnt even have the first irs system irs has been around since suzuki invented the dag um atv!!! dont say na uh b/c ive got one of the first kingquads with its irs and 2million high low and medium gears

09-22-2008, 10:00 PM
Originally posted by quadme
What the hell!!!

KTM engines are the best engine sout there, they win every outdoor competition specially the 450 and 525!!!!
And POLARIS worked on the IRS more years than HONDA did, knowing that Honda copied it!!!!

To resome it:

The XX is just an old engine inside a brand new chassis (oh oh), with the suspension of a POLARIS copy!!!!!!!

bu11$h!77 polaris didnt even have the first irs system irs has been around since suzuki invented the dag um atv!!! dont say na uh b/c ive got one of the first kingquads with its irs and 2million high low and medium gears

09-22-2008, 10:00 PM
Originally posted by quadme
What the hell!!!

KTM engines are the best engine sout there, they win every outdoor competition specially the 450 and 525!!!!
And POLARIS worked on the IRS more years than HONDA did, knowing that Honda copied it!!!!

To resome it:

The XX is just an old engine inside a brand new chassis (oh oh), with the suspension of a POLARIS copy!!!!!!!

bu11$h!77 polaris didnt even have the first irs system irs has been around since suzuki invented the dag um atv!!! dont say na uh b/c ive got one of the first kingquads with its irs and 2million high low and medium gears

04hemiboy
09-22-2008, 10:38 PM
Originally posted by quadme
Plus;

If you want to ride your grandma around your backyard, buy the HONDA!!!

But if you plan on serious fast riding; buy the POLARIS!

That's funny..Seems in one of this months mag, the Honda beat the Poo in a drag race and top end.

GE4x4
09-23-2008, 03:40 AM
Originally posted by 04hemiboy
That's funny..Seems in one of this months mag, the Honda beat the Poo in a drag race and top end.

In every shootout I've seen, the Outlaw beat the 700xx other then top speed. It's no secrete the the Outlaw could go up a tooth and make it faster. But 95% of the time, it's not how fast your are, but how quick you get there.:D

quadme
09-23-2008, 08:12 AM
Originally posted by 04hemiboy
That's funny..Seems in one of this months mag, the Honda beat the Poo in

a drag race and top end.




In your dreams!!!!

Yo know the Polaris is way quicker than the overweight HONDA.
Read some magazines or ride them, before talking...

blbraptor
09-23-2008, 10:11 AM
I'd say that the Outlaw 525 is definitely quicker thru second gear, after that the XX will pull harder thru the top. The 525 pulls hard and fast, the XX is more "subtle". The XX is tame on the bottom, but past half throttle it is a monster.

08525IRS
09-23-2008, 10:44 AM
ok VS threads are just a waste of time and kills the knowledge this board has and makes people look dumb were all cool lets have a beer and forget it.

04hemiboy
09-23-2008, 03:26 PM
Originally posted by quadme
In your dreams!!!!

Yo know the Polaris is way quicker than the overweight HONDA.
Read some magazines or ride them, before talking...

Go get the new DW with the shootout. Top end and drag went to the 700xx. Handling went to the Outlaw.

suprdavtn
09-23-2008, 06:48 PM
WHY DOES THE HONDA WEIGH SO MUCH. the diff between the 2525irs and 525s is only 20lbs.

trailin'me
09-23-2008, 07:14 PM
well .. honda hasnt shaved the weight on components to compensate for added speed. This bike was built for GNCC type riding ...which takes a much more solid and rigid platform.

Hell .. just replacing the shocks in the front saved at least 10lbs... so im willing to bet when i change out the rears ...and add these aftermarket wheels/tires ill be well under 490lbs. Im shooting for about 480ish ready to race.

ive been eyeballing my quad looking for things to make it lighter... shave off weight ... but in reality i dont want a cross country quad to be too light ...will pound the shyt out of me .. would rather the quad take the punishment personally.

Don't forget the added HP and torque with aftermarket exhaust/header and a power commander ... which compensates for even more weight ..so take another 10-15lbs off for the extra power gains.

all of a sudden youre at 465lbs which isnt heavy at all.

trailin'me
09-23-2008, 07:26 PM
Originally posted by GE4x4
In every shootout I've seen, the Outlaw beat the 700xx other then top speed. It's no secrete the the Outlaw could go up a tooth and make it faster. But 95% of the time, it's not how fast your are, but how quick you get there.:D

huh? LOL. read what you typed. hmm wonder why you couldnt add a tooth to the honda? what exactly are you saying here.

well hell ..ill put a 1000000000 shot of NOS on a kymco scooter and will whip the living hell outta anything on the road ..but that means nothing either.

at least you said it correctly about the rider. Tame in first gear ..hardly ... put a power commander on it ..and as soon as you hit the throttle in first ..wheelies to your hearts content not even standing up.... pulling harder and harder each get you rev-limit up to.

the thing most of you have failed to realize is ... the 400-525 sized quads are already engineered to the utmost extremes ... sure youcan change a few parts ... shave a bit of weight ..but its common knowlege they are not made for longevity. Years of research and experimentation has showed what exactly can be tweaked ... to make them as fast as mechanically possible without breaking ..and they pretty much come from the dealer that way. Doesnt matter what brand you are talking about.

700's are in a class all by themselves. You cant really compare them to a 400-525.

Ive said this before ... its like comparing an r6 to a zx14. So predictably ... all day long a zx14 will whip an r6 in a 1/4 drag ... the r6 will beat the zx14 on a tight turned course ..but not necessarily by much .... lower the zx14 .. will gain some handling ...and will be closer ... so depending on what course you are racing on and who is riding will directly effect what wins.

Long long races ... while the smaller quads are fixing broken or bent parts ..hot engines (both due to engineering the quad to the extreme)..or the rider is simply beat the hell up and cant finish ..the 700xx will be hammering it out ..which was proven this last baja.

Lastly .. sure honda could have stuffed this 686cc engine in a 450 frame (much like yamaha did with the raptor) or they could make something different.... which they did ..and i along with many other people happen to like.

If you put this motor in a 450r machine ... haha wow is all i could say ... hold on and pray.

OzLinc
09-23-2008, 07:44 PM
Originally posted by suprdavtn
WHY DOES THE HONDA WEIGH SO MUCH. the diff between the 2525irs and 525s is only 20lbs.

It's the engine........The engine in the 700XX is a big heavy lump. Also the sub-transmission that redirects the primary sprocket in to the centre of the quad.

The chassis couldn't be that much heavier (than an Outlaw) same goes with the suspension components. It's all in that motor.

The good thing about the 700XX is the extra weight is all centrally located and creates a centre of gravity that keeps the quad planted on the ground without making it feel too heavy.

Have a look at the weight difference of a KTM525EXC bike compared to an XR650; its all in that engine.

The KTM (outlaw) motor is a race based engine; it's designed to be light. The Honda is a bullet proof workhorse that has now been given a new lease on life with an upgrade to e-start and fuel injection. This upgrade along with the heavy duty nature of the original XR650 motor makes it an excelent choice for someone that wants to just hop on and smash down those miles.

IMO.....if you want to do 5 miles fast get the Outlaw; if you want to do 100 miles fast get the 700XX.

I dont think one is better than the other; it just depends on what you want to do with it.

Linc

GE4x4
09-23-2008, 08:09 PM
Originally posted by trailin'me
huh? LOL. read what you typed. hmm wonder why you couldnt add a tooth to the honda? what exactly are you saying here.

well hell ..ill put a 1000000000 shot of NOS on a kymco scooter and will whip the living hell outta anything on the road ..but that means nothing either.

at least you said it correctly about the rider. Tame in first gear ..hardly ... put a power commander on it ..and as soon as you hit the throttle in first ..wheelies to your hearts content not even standing up.... pulling harder and harder each get you rev-limit up to.

the thing most of you have failed to realize is ... the 400-525 sized quads are already engineered to the utmost extremes ... sure youcan change a few parts ... shave a bit of weight ..but its common knowlege they are not made for longevity. Years of research and experimentation has showed what exactly can be tweaked ... to make them as fast as mechanically possible without breaking ..and they pretty much come from the dealer that way. Doesnt matter what brand you are talking about.

700's are in a class all by themselves. You cant really compare them to a 400-525.

Ive said this before ... its like comparing an r6 to a zx14. So predictably ... all day long a zx14 will whip an r6 in a 1/4 drag ... the r6 will beat the zx14 on a tight turned course ..but not necessarily by much .... lower the zx14 .. will gain some handling ...and will be closer ... so depending on what course you are racing on and who is riding will directly effect what wins.

Long long races ... while the smaller quads are fixing broken or bent parts ..hot engines (both due to engineering the quad to the extreme)..or the rider is simply beat the hell up and cant finish ..the 700xx will be hammering it out ..which was proven this last baja.

Lastly .. sure honda could have stuffed this 686cc engine in a 450 frame (much like yamaha did with the raptor) or they could make something different.... which they did ..and i along with many other people happen to like.

If you put this motor in a 450r machine ... haha wow is all i could say ... hold on and pray.


Your right, the 700xx is the best quad out there. It's so XC race ready that the GNCC races will be full of them. I'm sure all the pros will be begging to get the cc limit to 700 cc so they can race the allmight 700xx. You cleared it up for all of us. The 700xx is the greatest.

trailin'me
09-23-2008, 11:23 PM
great sarcasm ... in all your life have you ever seen a race circuit stay the same? there is only one way to go .. more power ..more speed ..and you cant get more power and more speed from 400-525 than what is already out unless there is some great technological leap where you can get literally hundreds of hp/lb of machine.

Its only a matter of time before machines get bigger and badder...and more powerful.

Its whiny old school asses that are always against change or progression...

I guess youre the type of guy that said ..oh no we cant have a 300cc quad cause the 250's are plenty big .. oh no ..cant havea 400cc quad cause they are waaaay too heavy ... oh gawd ..a 450 ..what on earth are you gonna do with that extra 20lbs...

I guess we should all be using 250's?

GE4x4
09-24-2008, 03:37 AM
I have nothing at all against changes. It guys like you who buy this 1st year quad then insist it's the best thing out there and will out handle everything out there. Yet many who have qualifacations, don't say the same thing. Yet you say they are wrong and your right. If you honestly believe the 700xx is the best thing out there, then great. But to say it will out handle SRA in XC racing, your dreaming. With equal riders, a SRA will every time out do a IRS in racing. I've actually raced both, not rode, but raced.

trailin'me
09-24-2008, 12:01 PM
Originally posted by GE4x4
I have nothing at all against changes. It guys like you who buy this 1st year quad then insist it's the best thing out there and will out handle everything out there. Yet many who have qualifacations, don't say the same thing. Yet you say they are wrong and your right. If you honestly believe the 700xx is the best thing out there, then great. But to say it will out handle SRA in XC racing, your dreaming. With equal riders, a SRA will every time out do a IRS in racing. I've actually raced both, not rode, but raced.

aint that something ... coulda swore i said long long races. what exactly is a long long race?

If you wanna get technical .. why did 2 out of 3 racers place with a 700xx in the baja? is it cause they handle like crap? Guess so.

I never said anything about out handling ... i said winning...and if you believed everyone with "qualifications" then youd be stuck at 250's.

who ever said anything about who was qualified...what exactly makes someone qualified? What if i podiumed the last 3 races i was in? Does that make me qualified>?

I bet your *** you havent XC'd with a 700xx. Maybe I have? I dont feel the need to tout my record of "qualifications."

I guess every racing circuit on the planet with 4 wheels minus straight up funny-car drag racing is totally wrong with their approach to completely independent suspension as well.

In 5 years there will as many if not more IRS racing machines and SRA ... and there probably will be another added class to compensate for the advantage/disadvantage of using it.

suprdavtn
09-24-2008, 05:01 PM
hey tailinme, didnt the rincon win the baja when it came out. isit not the biggest piece of **** in its class. the ds 650 won in 2001 on a stock with the ct can, did that mean it was the best at the time. what are you meaning to convey with mentioning the baja win. the 525 irs placed 7 out of 11 top wins in the dacar so is it the best? do you have a point with that or what. did the 700xx team also mention they weighed at 550lbs stock. if weight helps hell tell honda to put a 900cc ona 1000lb sport quad. how smooth it would ride on really loooooooooooooooooooooooong races.

vtt
09-24-2008, 08:28 PM
Originally posted by trailin'me


If you wanna get technical .. why did 2 out of 3 racers place with a 700xx in the baja? is it cause they handle like crap? Guess so.



This guy is always repeating the same thing day after day. Can't you understand that Honda put more than 12k$ of add-on on the 700XX??? What else than the Baja did this Quad won? Certainly not a match against an other ATV in any magazines...

D Bergstrom
09-24-2008, 10:59 PM
Originally posted by vtt
Can't you understand that Honda put more than 12k$ of add-on on the 700XX???

The 700XX does not have 12K worth of mods on it, I have seen it up close with my own eyes. (Been passed by it to!) It has the usual desert stuff, shocks, front arms, wheels and tires, skids, etc. Stuff you would put on ANY quad you were setting up for desert. I have more into my 450R then Wayne has in the 700XX. As far as I know, the engine internals are still bone stock.

Doug

GE4x4
09-25-2008, 03:49 AM
According to Quad Mag which did a write up on the 700xx Baja winner, it had $10,691 in total add-ons. That doesn't even include the special exhaust that Honda made specific for it. Read only 2 were made.

quadme
09-25-2008, 07:56 AM
Originally posted by GE4x4
According to Quad Mag which did a write up on the 700xx Baja winner, it had $10,691 in total add-ons. That doesn't even include the special exhaust that Honda made specific for it. Read only 2 were made.

Anyway....

The only thing we can proove in this forum, after all the disscussionis: The HONDA XX; needs alot of money to make it fast!!!!!!!

D Bergstrom
09-25-2008, 08:08 AM
Originally posted by GE4x4
According to Quad Mag which did a write up on the 700xx Baja winner, it had $10,691 in total add-ons. That doesn't even include the special exhaust that Honda made specific for it. Read only 2 were made.

Have a list of what they say it has? I never saw the write up. This is all I know of:

Elka shocks, all four corners
Laeger a-arms
Douglas wheels
Maxxis razr's
tire balls
Elka stabilizer
rear wheel spacers
stem
belly skid
exhaust
IMS tank

Yes, that stuff does add up, so I guess if there are a few other things and they are adding full retail, I guess I might be able to see the almost $11,000 in upgrades. A few months ago, I was thinking of buying a 700XX and I added up what I thought it would take to set it up for desert. (Well set up, did not really NEED everything, but I wanted a total price.) Suspension, engine mods, bolt ons, etc. I came upon with just over $8,000. (Since alot of stuff was not out yet, I based prices off of what the same part cost for my 450R. I also used what price I could get it for, not full retail.) Needless to say, I am keeping my 450R's for a while longer!

My point is that ANY quad you set up for desert will have the same stuff on it. They just did not dump a bunch of money into to this quad, a bunch of money gets dumped into any quad. Trust me, I do not even want to add up what I have in my desert 450R. (and I have two of them!) Desert racing a quad is NOT cheap.

Doug

D Bergstrom
09-25-2008, 08:12 AM
Originally posted by quadme
Anyway....

The only thing we can proove in this forum, after all the disscussionis: The HONDA XX; needs alot of money to make it fast!!!!!!!

WRONG! This should read ANY desert quad will need a lot of money to make it fast. Show me a pro or expert that is racing a bone stock quad, and is running for wins. I only know one guy, and he is runing a KTM, not a cheap quad from the start. I know another team that runs a KTM also, you do not even want to see there motor bill, since it seems to blow a motor almost every race!

Doug

quadme
09-25-2008, 08:23 AM
Originally posted by D Bergstrom
WRONG! This should read ANY desert quad will need a lot of money to make it fast. Show me a pro or expert that is racing a bone stock quad, and is running for wins. I only know one guy, and he is runing a KTM, not a cheap quad from the start. I know another team that runs a KTM also, you do not even want to see there motor bill, since it seems to blow a motor almost every race!

Doug


Of course!!! we have to put some extra money in every quad. But we prooved that with the XX we need more money than any KTM powered quad!!!

D Bergstrom
09-25-2008, 08:30 AM
Originally posted by quadme
Of course!!! we have to put some extra money in every quad. But we prooved that with the XX we need more money than any KTM powered quad!!!

Yeah, I will give you that one. The KTM is the exception. It does require less, but I do not think it has the reliablility that Honda is famous for. I would still like one though! I would love to get a SX and set it up for desert. Of course, with the higher intial price of the quad, and stuff that would still be needed (Tires, skids, comfort stuff, etc.) I could probably find a prior year Honda on closeout and build it for cheaper then buying the KTM and building it, and I feel it would be more reliable.

Doug

scuzz
09-25-2008, 08:41 AM
Originally posted by quadme
Of course!!! we have to put some extra money in every quad. But we prooved that with the XX we need more money than any KTM powered quad!!!


How was that ever proven?

Somone posted the they read an article on the price of mods of two one-off quads and that proves something? More tha anything it proves you're an idiot for believing your own words.

The truth is that the 700xx is fast and a better built quad than the Polaris. Don't believe me? Go a few threads down and look at what the other owners say:

Overheating? (http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=365501)

Help! (his bearings already went to ****) (http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=365569)

Shifter Issues (http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=364334)

I fail to see $10k here (they must be counting R&D right?):

Elka shocks, (which if you include the R&D in the price tag, but otherwise....NO) A-arms, oil-tank protector, IMS bumper

http://quad.transworld.net/files/2008/08/20/_d3n6814.jpg

Tag bars, twist throttle, stickers, hand guards, cool fuel cap:

http://quad.transworld.net/files/2008/08/20/_d3n6818.jpg

Muffler you can't buy, tires you can't buy and elkas.

http://quad.transworld.net/files/2008/08/20/_d3n6827.jpg

STOCK headpipe, IMS nerfs and pegs:

http://quad.transworld.net/files/2008/08/20/_d3n6829.jpg

Now what we don't/can't see.

1. The air filter. (OMG I bet it's at least $1k of filtration.)
2. The fuel programmer. (you can bet there is one.)

quadme
09-25-2008, 08:45 AM
Originally posted by D Bergstrom
Yeah, I will give you that one. The KTM is the exception. It does require less, but I do not think it has the reliablility that Honda is famous for. I would still like one though! I would love to get a SX and set it up for desert. Of course, with the higher intial price of the quad, and stuff that would still be needed (Tires, skids, comfort stuff, etc.) I could probably find a prior year Honda on closeout and build it for cheaper then buying the KTM and building it, and I feel it would be more reliable.

Doug

Yeah the KTM is faster, and the HONDA is known for reliability...
But with the money you buy a KTM, with all the goodies it comes stock, you couldnt fix any other to work the same.
And if you take good care, all the normal maintenance of the KTM, it will last the same as the HONDA.
And there is also a plus.....
The parts on a KTM are cheaper than HONDA!!!
HONDA IS KNOWN AS THE MOST RELIABLE AND ALSO AS THE MANUFACTURER WITH THE HIGHEST PRICES IN THE MARKET!!!

scuzz
09-25-2008, 08:48 AM
Originally posted by quadme
Yeah the KTM is faster, and the HONDA is known for reliability...
But with the money you buy a KTM, with all the goodies it comes stock, you couldnt fix any other to work the same.
And if you take good care, all the normal maintenance of the KTM, it will last the same as the HONDA.
And there is also a plus.....
The parts on a KTM are cheaper than HONDA!!!
HONDA IS KNOWN AS THE MOST RELIABLE AND ALSO AS THE MANUFACTURER WITH THE HIGHEST PRICES IN THE MARKET!!!

I'm confused, are you talking about KTM or are you talking about the Outlaw? We already know it's KTM powered, yet a LOT slower than the KTM525XC

quadme
09-25-2008, 08:49 AM
Originally posted by scuzz
How was that ever proven?

Somone posted the they read an article on the price of mods of two one-off quads and that proves something? More tha anything it proves you're an idiot for believing your own words.

The truth is that the 700xx is fast and a better built quad than the Polaris. Don't believe me? Go a few threads down and look at what the other owners say:


YEAH RIGHT...
THE POLARIS IS OUT FOR MORE THAN A COUYPLE OF YEARS, AFTER BANGING THE S#*T OUT OF THEM. WAIT TO SEE WHAT HAPPENS IN A COUPLE OF YEARS WITH THE HONDA.
STILL THE POLARIS IS FASTERRRR!!!!

Overheating? (http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=365501)

Help! (his bearings already went to ****) (http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=365569)

Shifter Issues (http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=364334)

I fail to see $10k here (they must be counting R&D right?):

Elka shocks, (which if you include the R&D in the price tag, but otherwise....NO) A-arms, oil-tank protector, IMS bumper

http://quad.transworld.net/files/2008/08/20/_d3n6814.jpg

Tag bars, twist throttle, stickers, hand guards, cool fuel cap:

http://quad.transworld.net/files/2008/08/20/_d3n6818.jpg

Muffler you can't buy, tires you can't buy and elkas.

http://quad.transworld.net/files/2008/08/20/_d3n6827.jpg

STOCK headpipe, IMS nerfs and pegs:

http://quad.transworld.net/files/2008/08/20/_d3n6829.jpg

Now what we don't/can't see.

1. The air filter. (OMG I bet it's at least $1k of filtration.)
2. The fuel programmer. (you can bet there is one.)

scuzz
09-25-2008, 08:51 AM
Originally posted by quadme
YEAH RIGHT...
THE POLARIS IS OUT FOR MORE THAN A COUYPLE OF YEARS, AFTER BANGING THE S#*T OUT OF THEM. WAIT TO SEE WHAT HAPPENS IN A COUPLE OF YEARS WITH THE HONDA.
STILL THE POLARIS IS FASTERRRR!!!!



So is it a Polaris or a KTM?

Please tell me why didn't Polaris design and install their own engines and put them in the new outlaws again?



...and furthermore. Your answer differs from the other owners. Not one user said anything like: "they be banging the **** out of them"

scuzz
09-25-2008, 08:54 AM
Go ahead, ask me how I know so much about both....



http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j254/gwwaddle/Little%20Sahara/100_6501.jpg



http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j254/gwwaddle/Little%20Sahara/100_6579.jpg

D Bergstrom
09-25-2008, 08:57 AM
Originally posted by quadme
The parts on a KTM are cheaper than HONDA!!!
HONDA IS KNOWN AS THE MOST RELIABLE AND ALSO AS THE MANUFACTURER WITH THE HIGHEST PRICES IN THE MARKET!!!

They may be cheaper, but you probably have to buy more of them to fix the KTM all the time! haha. Really, my only experiance with KTM is my uncles 2001 520 bike. That thing is a money pit, I think it has sat broken for longer then he has actually got to ride it.

Having owned both a Honda and a Yamaha, my own experiance is that parts for a Honda are cheaper, I do not agree with you saying that Honda has the highest prices in the market, but hey that is my opinion.

Doug

quadme
09-25-2008, 09:50 AM
Originally posted by scuzz
So is it a Polaris or a KTM?

Please tell me why didn't Polaris design and install their own engines and put them in the new outlaws again?



...and furthermore. Your answer differs from the other owners. Not one user said anything like: "they be banging the **** out of them"

IT´S VERY SIMPLE: THE BEST OF TWO WORLDS IN ONE MACHINE!!! (BEST ENGINE+KTM; BEST CHASSIS+POLARIS)

AND ABOUT BANGING...
EVERY QUAD IS FOR THAT!!!!

scuzz
09-25-2008, 09:53 AM
Originally posted by quadme
IT´S VERY SIMPLE: THE BEST OF TWO WORLDS IN ONE MACHINE!!! (BEST ENGINE+KTM; BEST CHASSIS+POLARIS)



I must have missed the polaris chassis memo.

GE4x4
09-25-2008, 04:03 PM
Originally posted by scuzz
Go ahead, ask me how I know so much about both....



http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j254/gwwaddle/Little%20Sahara/100_6501.jpg



http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j254/gwwaddle/Little%20Sahara/100_6579.jpg

What I see is a 525 KTM with a pipe and most likely jetted going against a stock Outlaw 525. Plus I believe you said the KTM is the dads and the Outlaw is a teenage kid. So I'm sure experience helps to. But the 525's are fast. But in every quad shootout between the 2, there neck and neck every time. You can't compare one with mods to a stock one.

scuzz
09-26-2008, 09:51 AM
Originally posted by GE4x4
What I see is a 525 KTM with a pipe and most likely jetted going against a stock Outlaw 525. Plus I believe you said the KTM is the dads and the Outlaw is a teenage kid. So I'm sure experience helps to. But the 525's are fast. But in every quad shootout between the 2, there neck and neck every time. You can't compare one with mods to a stock one.

It's father and son, and even when they were both bone stock the KTM was WAY faster. The father is easily double the weight of his 13 year old son so don't bring up some garbage about the KTM weight and the poopoo's weight.. Also the two are at the drags every weekend, so it's not like either of them can't ride.

The KTm is a much better (albiet costlier) machine. The (insert every part that isn't common between the two) on the KYM is better. Take the airbox for example on the Outlaw, which is junk.

This is bringing the thread off topic, but you can't even compare the SRA outlaw to the KTM.

GE4x4
09-26-2008, 11:55 AM
Well I will take all the mags shootouts with equal riders over a father and a 13 year old any time. But if you believe the 13 year old is as fast as his father and the Outlaw is that slow, so be it. But in the real world with equad riders, there neck and neck.

On a side note, any shots of the father on the Outlaw racing his kid on the KTM??

Also, why can't you compare the two??

09 Outlaw 525 $ 7399
09 KTM 525 $ 11,998

09 Outlaw weight 369 lbs
09 KTM weight 357lbs

$4600 can buy a TON of mods.:D

scuzz
09-26-2008, 07:49 PM
Originally posted by GE4x4
Well I will take all the mags shootouts with equal riders over a father and a 13 year old any time. But if you believe the 13 year old is as fast as his father and the Outlaw is that slow, so be it. But in the real world with equad riders, there neck and neck.

On a side note, any shots of the father on the Outlaw racing his kid on the KTM??

Also, why can't you compare the two??

09 Outlaw 525 $ 7399
09 KTM 525 $ 11,998

09 Outlaw weight 369 lbs
09 KTM weight 357lbs

$4600 can buy a TON of mods.:D


The outlaw has a good motor, and junk everything else. It looks like a Chinese version of a Korean quad. The only thing good polaris makes IMO is the RZR and snomobiles.

The KTM has everything good, from the airbox design to being able to use one wrench to remove all of the plastics. Besides, you can make a civic as fast as a corvette for the price difference, but all you have in the end is a fast civic. :ermm:

Here's another race:

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j254/gwwaddle/Little%20Sahara/100_6582.jpg

GE4x4
09-27-2008, 04:53 AM
Have you seen the 09 yet?? One wrench takes all the plastic off. Yes the air box isn't as good, but Rath has that being fixed. So what is so junk about the rest?? Is it to you that it says Polaris on the side?? Please inform us why in your mind the Outlaw is junk.:confused:

09-27-2008, 08:29 AM
how bout yalll all shut the h311 up! and get over that polarises suck!other than there snomobiles! there unreliable!AND FOR THOSE WHO SAY IM WRONG! WHY DIDN,T POLARIS PUT THERE OWN MOTOR IN THERE OWN BIKE?AND THE 700XX WAS NOT MADE TO BE A STOCK RACE TRACK HERO! IT WAS MADE AS A COMFORTABLE BIGBORE BIKE!COMPARED TO THE CRAPPY POLARIS THAT WAS WHAT POLARIS CALLS "DESINGED"TO HIT THE TRACK FROM THE SHOWROOM FLOOR ,h311 if the honda smokes a modded out 525 [which i have witnessed with my own eyes!]and is more comfortable and has the billion years of honda reliability who on earth would want the polaris?:huh i mean ive been to busco and smoked the 525 through all gears and top speed on my yz125 ,then i line up with the 700 wich i take at first then he flew by me like i was riding a power wheels! so there WE ALL KNOW HONDA IS BETTER AND YAMAHA IS THE BEST!:blah:

TRX450R2
09-27-2008, 11:39 AM
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH!
That was fun!:p
I Love my 700XX

somewon
09-27-2008, 10:36 PM
MX cowboy,

First off Polaris doesn't make motors for any of their quads. If you actually look you will see a lot of companies do this like Artic Cat (powered by Suzuki in many of their products) even bigger companies like Kawasaki were buying engines from other manufacturers, so it's a lot more common than you think.

I think your idea of what Polaris' and Honda's intent was when designing their machines was a little off. I don't think the higher ups at Honda said "gee, we need a big bore sport quad and instead of going for a high performer, let's build a 75 mph couch." I think the designers were aiming to build a high performance quad for open class endurance racing.

If you’re looking for a reason people would want the 525 IRS I would say the #1 reason is the KTM power plant, plus the quad comes with maxxis tires all the way around, SS brake lines, hydraulic clutch, fully rebuildable shocks that are pretty darn good in stock form all in a package that is relatively light weight.

I would hope that with everything you have done to your dirt bike that you could beat a quad in a drag race, based on your report of the 700XX beating you at the top, I would say that you got out geared, not out powered. I would say your comparison of how your dirt bike performs against two quads falls into the category of "apples to oranges".

09-28-2008, 08:57 AM
Originally posted by somewon
MX cowboy,

First off Polaris doesn't make motors for any of their quads. If you actually look you will see a lot of companies do this like Artic Cat (powered by Suzuki in many of their products) even bigger companies like Kawasaki were buying engines from other manufacturers, so it's a lot more common than you think.

I think your idea of what Polaris' and Honda's intent was when designing their machines was a little off. I don't think the higher ups at Honda said "gee, we need a big bore sport quad and instead of going for a high performer, let's build a 75 mph couch." I think the designers were aiming to build a high performance quad for open class endurance racing.

If you’re looking for a reason people would want the 525 IRS I would say the #1 reason is the KTM power plant, plus the quad comes with maxxis tires all the way around, SS brake lines, hydraulic clutch, fully rebuildable shocks that are pretty darn good in stock form all in a package that is relatively light weight.

I would hope that with everything you have done to your dirt bike that you could beat a quad in a drag race, based on your report of the 700XX beating you at the top, I would say that you got out geared, not out powered. I would say your comparison of how your dirt bike performs against two quads falls into the category of "apples to oranges".

um every one knows suzuki makes motors for ,artic cat dvx400,kawasaki kfx400,for examples, and i was saying i thought polaris was a shi77y brand b/c they dont have there own motors ,and the honda thing, do you know what the ride red club is? before they came out with the 700 they were describing it as a more trial oriented big bore atv,and a great gncc machine,and sure its not as quick of the start as the polaris,but thats because its a bigger atv,and if honda wanted to make competition for the little dinky polairs they would have stuffed that motor in the 450r body!and most likely gave iit irs and efi!!and the only reall reason the 700 beat me when we dragged was my carb needed re-jetting!

OutlawBill
09-28-2008, 10:15 AM
I have not seen so much B.S. on which is better. Both a good IRS quads. Next year I may be on the 700XX not because it is better than my Outlaw 525 but the 09 Outlaw has only a 3 gal gas tank and look,s like you can not go bigger. For me out in the desert on a 60+ mile loop it is nice too get too the pit's I hate getting towed in on empty.

RATPACK Z400
09-28-2008, 10:31 AM
the outlaw went 20 mile more than the 700xx in the shootout againsr each other.

OutlawBill
09-28-2008, 10:55 AM
Originally posted by RATPACK Z400
the outlaw went 20 mile more than the 700xx in the shootout againsr each other. 08 Outlaw has 4 gal tank IMS make's a 4.9 for it. The 08 700XX has a 3 gal and IMS makes a 4.8 gal for it. The 09 Outlaw has a 3 gal tank and the way Polaris made the plastic I think there will not be a larger tank made.

GE4x4
09-28-2008, 10:57 AM
Originally posted by OutlawBill
I have not seen so much B.S. on which is better. Both a good IRS quads. Next year I may be on the 700XX not because it is better than my Outlaw 525 but the 09 Outlaw has only a 3 gal gas tank and look,s like you can not go bigger. For me out in the desert on a 60+ mile loop it is nice too get too the pit's I hate getting towed in on empty.


You can garrenty with Yokley on a 09 that IMS will have a 4 gal tank for it. Plus the tank design isn't any differnt then the YFZ, LTR, or KFX, and they all got bigger tanks.

09-28-2008, 11:00 AM
Originally posted by troybilt
Can someone that has or had both machines the 700 and the 525 give me an honest comparison? I was all but ready to go with the 700XX for my next quad then Polaris re-did the look of the outlaw and I like it better than the old one, and I've been leaning that way.

How would you compare the power? For sand, woods, etc...
How would you compare the fit and finish? Honda has always been excellent here.

Is the extra 40 lbs on the 700XX noticeable? How do the suspensions compare?

I'd like to hear from unbias real folks. I'm looking to get something new after the first of the year.

Any rumors for the 09 Honda's?

Thanks,
T

wow dude uve started the biggest verbal online fight ive ever seen lmfao

OutlawBill
09-28-2008, 11:09 AM
Originally posted by GE4x4
You can garrenty with Yokley on a 09 that IMS will have a 4 gal tank for it. Plus the tank design isn't any differnt then the YFZ, LTR, or KFX, and they all got bigger tanks. No can due on the 09 all the other quads have a tank cover. The 09 Outlaw has a tank cover, front fenders and side panels as an one piece unite.

GE4x4
09-28-2008, 11:33 AM
I know what your saying, but IMHO I feel that IMS will be able to get a 4 gal tank under it somehow. Polaris had a lot of XC feedback on designing the 09, so I can't see them not thinking about installing a bigger tank. But time will tell.

Fred55
09-28-2008, 12:01 PM
Just wanted to add my .02, I have road a 700xx, I was not impressed with the motor, I would much rather have a 700R engine in there, and the chassis is pathetic, front shocks are WAY underdampened, did Honda grab the 250ex shocks on the assembly line? Front end pushes like no tomorrow, the quad feels way too skinny for how long it is and the body shows a lot of roll. Also how can you sell a quad for this much, have it go up against the 700R and Outlaws and NOT give it compression adjustment?
I work at a dealer and we had a 700xx come in with not much time at all and guess what, rod out, junk motor, hows that for Honda reliability?
Of all the Outlaws we have sold, none with a KTM motor has come back, I will say the Outlaw handles MUCH MUCH more like a conventional sport quad where I would liken the 700 to a ute with somewhat sporty plastics.

outlaw450mxr
09-28-2008, 01:57 PM
I don't understand how everyone is saying that polaris is crap? And I don't understand how everyone is saying that the 700xx is crap? The 700 looks like a cool quad, I would defiantly take one if someone gave one to me, same thing goes with the 525irs. I have rode the 525irs and I'm not really a fan of the IRS on a sport quad. As for weight, no one complains about the ltr being 415 lbs with all the fluids because when you ride it you don't even notice it, I'm sure if you uncork the 700xx a little bit and adjust the suspension to your weight(which no one ever tends to do unless they race for some reason?)you will not be able to notice the heavy weight of it. I sat on one at the dealership and it feels alright, not to big feeling, then i tried to pick it up and that was a different story haha. Also I have had my outlaw for almost a year now and have rode it a lot, nothing has gone wrong, the bearings in the steering are starting to go now, but that is the only thing that has ever happened to my two friends 500 and 525 irs is the bearings go, and thats because polaris puts **** bearings in there and most people do not grease them a lot. Everyone has there opinions and that is why there are about 11(ktm has 2, can am has 3, yamaha has 2)different 450s out and all those companies seem to be selling there products even though some claim some of them are crap. If some of you "claim" you are amazing or your quad is faster everywhere compared to any other quad, then arrange a meeting for you and the other guys your fighting with and race, or make some videos of your riding, its as simply as that, you guys don't have to sit there on your computer and argue about your own opinions, GET UP AND GO RIDE!. :D (BTW this was not directed at anyone).

troybilt
09-29-2008, 06:58 AM
Originally posted by mxcowboy
wow dude uve started the biggest verbal online fight ive ever seen lmfao


yeah, I started a shyt storm. I didn't realize this was an emotional topic.

I think the talk that either company is crap is BS. I've owned both brands since 87, and have not had any major issues.

quadme
09-29-2008, 01:34 PM
Originally posted by somewon
MX cowboy,

First off Polaris doesn't make motors for any of their quads. If you actually look you will see a lot of companies do this like Artic Cat (powered by Suzuki in many of their products) even bigger companies like Kawasaki were buying engines from other manufacturers, so it's a lot more common than you think.

I think your idea of what Polaris' and Honda's intent was when designing their machines was a little off. I don't think the higher ups at Honda said "gee, we need a big bore sport quad and instead of going for a high performer, let's build a 75 mph couch." I think the designers were aiming to build a high performance quad for open class endurance racing.

If you’re looking for a reason people would want the 525 IRS I would say the #1 reason is the KTM power plant, plus the quad comes with maxxis tires all the way around, SS brake lines, hydraulic clutch, fully rebuildable shocks that are pretty darn good in stock form all in a package that is relatively light weight.

I would hope that with everything you have done to your dirt bike that you could beat a quad in a drag race, based on your report of the 700XX beating you at the top, I would say that you got out geared, not out powered. I would say your comparison of how your dirt bike performs against two quads falls into the category of "apples to oranges".

Thank God; someone who relly knows!!!!

That cowboy should keep riding horse!!!!
He has no idea of Quads!!!

09-29-2008, 03:41 PM
Originally posted by quadme
Thank God; someone who relly knows!!!!

That cowboy should keep riding horse!!!!
He has no idea of Quads!!!

your an idiot,

quadme
09-29-2008, 05:20 PM
Originally posted by mxcowboy
your an idiot,

ehhhhhaaaaaa!!!

outlaw450mxr
09-29-2008, 05:23 PM
Keep to riding horses, hahahahah that was funny.

09-29-2008, 06:11 PM
Originally posted by outlaw450mxr
Keep to riding horses, hahahahah that was funny.

wow yall are yankees

outlaw450mxr
09-29-2008, 07:21 PM
I wasn't making fun of you, just laughing. Hahahah.

bossman525
09-29-2008, 07:23 PM
Originally posted by mxcowboy
your an idiot,
no dude, from what i have been reading from your simple mind, is that you are the idiot.

quadme
09-30-2008, 08:21 AM
Originally posted by bossman525
no dude, from what i have been reading from your simple mind, is that you are the idiot.

Agree with Bossman!!!!!

vtt
09-30-2008, 09:06 PM
Me too...

trailin'me
09-30-2008, 11:16 PM
Originally posted by Fred55
Just wanted to add my .02, I have road a 700xx, I was not impressed with the motor, I would much rather have a 700R engine in there, and the chassis is pathetic, front shocks are WAY underdampened, did Honda grab the 250ex shocks on the assembly line? Front end pushes like no tomorrow, the quad feels way too skinny for how long it is and the body shows a lot of roll. Also how can you sell a quad for this much, have it go up against the 700R and Outlaws and NOT give it compression adjustment?
I work at a dealer and we had a 700xx come in with not much time at all and guess what, rod out, junk motor, hows that for Honda reliability?
Of all the Outlaws we have sold, none with a KTM motor has come back, I will say the Outlaw handles MUCH MUCH more like a conventional sport quad where I would liken the 700 to a ute with somewhat sporty plastics.

you said the problem right there ... not much time ... my educated guess like anyone else with sense would say whomever had this bike redlined it without .... a)breaking it in properly b)had it stuck and over reved it over and over and over or c)was redline idling it for an extended period of time

or d) ... any new model sportbike/quad from any of the big makers ... when a catastrophic failure like this happens there are pictures ..and an explaination of what and why it happened. if you do indeed work at this dealer ... i personally am interested in what exactly happened.

I could run a quad out of oil and run the piss out of it and blow up an engine ... no matter how strong the motor is .. its gonna blow.

every brand has lemons as well ... statistically Honda and Yamaha has the fewest... actually id be willing to bet all the japanese makers are pretty close.

So just saying junk, blow up, rods out ... thats fine ... but why exactly did that happen is the question.

I blew up my brand new Acrua MDX... 50,000 dollars ... top rated crossover suv there is ... only because the dealer failed to put the oil drain in tightly.... so you cant blame the engine ... or the manufacturer ... dumbass mechanic on the other hand ... blame him.

I will ALWAYS recommend a japanese atv over a polaris ... thats my recommendation ..take it or leave it.

If anyone wants real solid proof ..go to your local ATV supershop ..not a branded one ..but one that sells all the aftermarket equipment and works on all brands of stuff ... see how many of each brand is there ... and ask them what they work on mainly ... 8/10 will tell you Polaris are horrid turds ... the other 2 will not answer it because they have polaris dealers they are friendly with.

Lastly ... if i blow a rod ...an engine ..even a boot ... ill be the first to post it ...

I myself have chosen to "uncork" my motor, added a real front end with shox, and put som real tires on my 700 ...and son ..this 4 wheeler in any OPEN class enduro, baja, GNCC is more than a competitor ... it really is an atv to recon with. Sure ..it takes an adjustment to riding style ..all the benchmarks we ALL have become accustomed to were benchmarked with solid rear axle machines...

put this machine on an off-axis whoop for instance ... this will eat it up and say mmmm more plz ...while you hang on for dear life on a SRA ... as far as the sagging in the front ... is non existent with a real front end... body roll ... due to crap OEM suspension ... and really roll can be your friend if you "know how" to use it to your advantage.

suprdavtn
10-01-2008, 05:07 AM
how did taking wieght off the front end work. does it still push through the turns. i thought that honda was perfect and perfected the irs. are you saying the honnda was messed up from honda? i here the mags rip it to shreds on the front end push and the f***ed up rear end. If i buy one will i have to spend 3000.00 on a front end and wait for some one to make a new rear end for another 3000.00. just asking. its a honda, it is funny that you defend such a huge peice of **** because it is a honda. they knew dunb a**s like you would fix there fu** ups for them.I am glad that that reverse is sooo easy to engage(quote from dirt and quad, them dam lying mags).why are you(tailingme) trying to tell everyone its great when you are spending thousands to install things like proper front ends and waiting for new rear ends to be made.what stupid things are you going to say next? why not just admit that honda crapped a big terd on you door step with the 700xx instead of defending it, telling others to buy one, its great when you know its not. not everyone has thousands to sink in a quad after buying it to fix it. the polaris is the best, be a man and admit it tailinme. you sound like one of the politians with their crap. step up boy and be a man!!!

gojufist
10-01-2008, 05:48 AM
i could smoke all of you on my 400 ex lol.

blbraptor
10-01-2008, 07:50 AM
Originally posted by suprdavtn
how did taking wieght off the front end work. does it still push through the turns. i thought that honda was perfect and perfected the irs. are you saying the honnda was messed up from honda? i here the mags rip it to shreds on the front end push and the f***ed up rear end. If i buy one will i have to spend 3000.00 on a front end and wait for some one to make a new rear end for another 3000.00. just asking. its a honda, it is funny that you defend such a huge peice of **** because it is a honda. they knew dunb a**s like you would fix there fu** ups for them.I am glad that that reverse is sooo easy to engage(quote from dirt and quad, them dam lying mags).why are you(tailingme) trying to tell everyone its great when you are spending thousands to install things like proper front ends and waiting for new rear ends to be made.what stupid things are you going to say next? why not just admit that honda crapped a big terd on you door step with the 700xx instead of defending it, telling others to buy one, its great when you know its not. not everyone has thousands to sink in a quad after buying it to fix it. the polaris is the best, be a man and admit it tailinme. you sound like one of the politians with their crap. step up boy and be a man!!!

Dude, chill out! If you are going to live by what the magazines say, pick up the new issue of QUAD magazine. They took the XX and ran it where it is MEANT to be ridden, in the mountain trails. The review was very good on it. About the only complaint was that the shocks are not adjustable, and for it's price tag, I agree that they should be. The article does mention that the front end pushes at SLOW speeds, which I believe is a byproduct of the IRS more than anything else. There is nothing wrong with the front or rear end on the machine. The test rider also mentioned that the weight was not noticeable at all. Funny how most of you guys will jump all over a quad when the rags rip them apart, and at the same time disregard anything you disagree with. The XX is certainly not a piece of *****, it is a VERY good trail quad. It will never appeal to the masses, being more of a niche quad. And for the niche it is designed for, it is very good. And that is without putting any aftermarket parts on it. Well, maybe other than handlebars, cuz' the stock one's really suck!

scuzz
10-01-2008, 09:07 AM
Originally posted by blbraptor
Dude, chill out! If you are going to live by what the magazines say, pick up the new issue of QUAD magazine. They took the XX and ran it where it is MEANT to be ridden, in the mountain trails. The review was very good on it. About the only complaint was that the shocks are not adjustable, and for it's price tag, I agree that they should be. The article does mention that the front end pushes at SLOW speeds, which I believe is a byproduct of the IRS more than anything else. There is nothing wrong with the front or rear end on the machine. The test rider also mentioned that the weight was not noticeable at all. Funny how most of you guys will jump all over a quad when the rags rip them apart, and at the same time disregard anything you disagree with. The XX is certainly not a piece of *****, it is a VERY good trail quad. It will never appeal to the masses, being more of a niche quad. And for the niche it is designed for, it is very good. And that is without putting any aftermarket parts on it. Well, maybe other than handlebars, cuz' the stock one's really suck!


Well put.

08525IRS
10-01-2008, 10:27 AM
Originally posted by suprdavtn
how did taking wieght off the front end work. does it still push through the turns. i thought that honda was perfect and perfected the irs. are you saying the honnda was messed up from honda? i here the mags rip it to shreds on the front end push and the f***ed up rear end. If i buy one will i have to spend 3000.00 on a front end and wait for some one to make a new rear end for another 3000.00. just asking. its a honda, it is funny that you defend such a huge peice of **** because it is a honda. they knew dunb a**s like you would fix there fu** ups for them.I am glad that that reverse is sooo easy to engage(quote from dirt and quad, them dam lying mags).why are you(tailingme) trying to tell everyone its great when you are spending thousands to install things like proper front ends and waiting for new rear ends to be made.what stupid things are you going to say next? why not just admit that honda crapped a big terd on you door step with the 700xx instead of defending it, telling others to buy one, its great when you know its not. not everyone has thousands to sink in a quad after buying it to fix it. the polaris is the best, be a man and admit it tailinme. you sound like one of the politians with their crap. step up boy and be a man!!!

LOL our 700xx can't be that bad to generate 11 pages of hater talk.. The reason we are being attacked is the fact that we are the competition. I took it upon myself to look at the SUGGESTED TRADE IN VALUE on our "competition" (Although I think the 700xx is in a class all on its own) here is what I found.

2008 Honda TRX700XX Trade In Value

Trade-In Value (Good Condition)
$4875


2008 Polaris Outlaw 525 S (IRS NOT LISTED)

Trade-In Value (Good Condition)
$3885


2008 Raptor 700R

Trade-In Value (Good Condition)
$3955

Trade-In Value (Good Condition) for the SE: $4250

scuzz
10-01-2008, 11:10 AM
Yeah trading in a car or ANYTHING after one year of ownership just says you have money to burn.

08525IRS
10-01-2008, 12:53 PM
Originally posted by scuzz
Yeah trading in a car or ANYTHING after one year of ownership just says you have money to burn.
-
I agree and Ill be the first to say I don't have any money to burn.

but that is to show what the market value is.. ask yourself what criteria reflects the market value that I posted above.. I am not going to take the time to explain it but you will find out why Honda is worth more and why Honda, with the economy being as it is, was still able to make a profit last quarter.

somewon
10-01-2008, 01:32 PM
I think your confusing market value with real value, which are unrelated.

Any item produced in limited numbers (like a first year production) will have a higher resale value than a similar product produced in higher quantities (see your own comparison between the 700XX and the 700R and 525 S). This would be a supply driven market.

real value is the sum of the benefits (I.E. equipment, reputation, all the things that make honda a honda) minus the cost.

If the real value is what is holding the resale price so high (demand driven) then it would be because buyers are so interested in the product that supplies of used products would be scarce therby increasing the market price.

I'm not trying to be a smart-*****, just letting everyone know what drives the resale prices.

Blak92
10-01-2008, 02:24 PM
This thread has turned more entertaining than informative.

I dont think that the resale needs to be brought up again... doesnt really mean much to most people I wouldnt think. Like was said, most people have no intentions of getting rid of thier quad after the first year of owning it anyway.

Yamaha is the SHZZLE when it comes to making ATVs ESPECIALLY the RAPTOR... just look at all the transmissions they managed to grenade when the raptor first came out. NOT A DIG, I love my rappy still, just said that to prove a point.

The IRS, nothing wrong with it... no need to slam it at all, it works fine. Would like to see how a little fatter sway bar would do though?

The front end, does push, only at slow speeds... there is room to talk a little smack there I suppose. I just put Baja T9s on the front though because I ride really hard in MOUNTAIN terrain, not just woods, so I need them, BAD. Had them on my raptor and they are near indestructable. I also put ITP GNCC tires on the front and they did away with SO MUCH but NOT ALL of the slow speed push. Very happy with it now, thing just grabs and goes no matter where and how hard I point it. I do have elkas on the back, but the stock springs where way to stout for my 160# asz. This thing is no turd, it runs away from my pipped/jetted 660.

suprdavtn
10-01-2008, 06:48 PM
some people are too dumb to help. i do not live buy the mags or i wouldnt have a 525irs, remember the reviews on it. did you read it correctly on who to market it to or did you miss the sarcasm in that quad review. if you (the guy who reads this to make an informed decision) on what to buy, read between the lines of what is being said, ignor every single shootout the 700xx has been in(which it has lost every singe shoot out) and buy the mighty fu**ed up 700xx. and when i said tird i ment terd, or is it turd, and as for comp, please, you are starting to believe the lies yall are telling others to get them to make the same mistake you made. dummys, no offence ment

scuzz
10-01-2008, 08:00 PM
Originally posted by suprdavtn
some people are too dumb to help. i do not live buy the mags or i wouldnt have a 525irs, remember the reviews on it. did you read it correctly on who to market it to or did you miss the sarcasm in that quad review. if you (the guy who reads this to make an informed decision) on what to buy, read between the lines of what is being said, ignor every single shootout the 700xx has been in(which it has lost every singe shoot out) and buy the mighty fu**ed up 700xx. and when i said tird i ment terd, or is it turd, and as for comp, please, you are starting to believe the lies yall are telling others to get them to make the same mistake you made. dummys, no offence ment

Um....WAT?

trailin'me
10-01-2008, 11:51 PM
Originally posted by suprdavtn
how did taking wieght off the front end work. does it still push through the turns. i thought that honda was perfect and perfected the irs. are you saying the honnda was messed up from honda? i here the mags rip it to shreds on the front end push and the f***ed up rear end. If i buy one will i have to spend 3000.00 on a front end and wait for some one to make a new rear end for another 3000.00. just asking. its a honda, it is funny that you defend such a huge peice of **** because it is a honda. they knew dunb a**s like you would fix there fu** ups for them.I am glad that that reverse is sooo easy to engage(quote from dirt and quad, them dam lying mags).why are you(tailingme) trying to tell everyone its great when you are spending thousands to install things like proper front ends and waiting for new rear ends to be made.what stupid things are you going to say next? why not just admit that honda crapped a big terd on you door step with the 700xx instead of defending it, telling others to buy one, its great when you know its not. not everyone has thousands to sink in a quad after buying it to fix it. the polaris is the best, be a man and admit it tailinme. you sound like one of the politians with their crap. step up boy and be a man!!!

LOL ... this boy wears a watch to race in that is worth more than your polaris (could be a timex) haha. that makes me laugh.

who the hell races a quad stock anyway ... i mean if you wanna win at least. Who the hell pays retail for equipment>? I dont know anyone with a flat tracker that has less than 12 grand in their quad ... no matter what the brand ... why you suppose that is? are all the quads junk? what a stupid pissy lil girl ... if you have a relevant point ..like the guy that pointed out a trashed engine ... by all means please point it out ... but all front ends with good shocks will cost 2500-3000 ... on ANY quad ... PERIOD. DUH

when you pass 25 years old .. maybe ill give you some props ... but its apparent you arent even old enough to drink ... so its obvious you cant afford the quads either... plz go to bed now.

trailin'me
10-02-2008, 12:06 AM
im sorry you dont have thousands of dollars to spend on a quad. go back to your trailer dood and live off my taxes. Only infantile whiny pssy lil kids with zero balls talk **** personal on forums.

I want to build a quad so over the top it sticks out like a sore thumb. It was good enough without it ... now its MY QUAD and no one elses..and im happier than a *** with a bag full of dicks that it offends you

i hope it serves as some inspiration to put some emphasis on a sport that seems to be fading in such poor economic times ... but im sure you are intelligent enough to figure that out there kiddo.

Get over it ... the reason there are so many mods for a brand new TURD ..as you call it ... is because many of us have the same vision ... a great quad that can be so over the top ... and reliable enough to sink this kind of money and time in to enjoy for a long long while...

lastly ... if i was on a LIMITED budget ... i damn sure would NOT buy a polaris ..id much rather buy a 2 or 3 year old honda ... or yamaha.. or even a suzuki ... actually id rather buy a Kymco.... anything but a polaris. Hell ..go buy a boat intead .. would still be cheaper over the lifetime of ownership than the polaris ..and boats are serious money pits.

THe comical thing here is ..I'm probably the nicest guy youd ever run into ..and you damn sure wouldnt talk **** like that in person ... and 99% of people that talk the mess you do only do so because your mom and dad didnt give you the attention you crave because they spent all the money at the bar or the gambling boat.

blbraptor
10-02-2008, 07:55 AM
Originally posted by suprdavtn
some people are too dumb to help. i do not live buy the mags or i wouldnt have a 525irs, remember the reviews on it. did you read it correctly on who to market it to or did you miss the sarcasm in that quad review. if you (the guy who reads this to make an informed decision) on what to buy, read between the lines of what is being said, ignor every single shootout the 700xx has been in(which it has lost every singe shoot out) and buy the mighty fu**ed up 700xx. and when i said tird i ment terd, or is it turd, and as for comp, please, you are starting to believe the lies yall are telling others to get them to make the same mistake you made. dummys, no offence ment

I don't even understand what the hell you just said, but there was no "sarcasm" in the QUAD write up. You are an idiot. You contradicted yourself by saying that you don't live "buy" the mags (its BY dummy), then you turn around and say all of us XX owners are stupid for buying the Honda because it hasn't fared all that well in the magazine reviews. Learn how to spell and construct legible, full sentences, then come back and post. When you get home from school today.

outlaw450mxr
10-02-2008, 11:45 AM
Originally posted by trailin'me
im sorry you dont have thousands of dollars to spend on a quad. go back to your trailer dood and live off my taxes. Only infantile whiny pssy lil kids with zero balls talk **** personal on forums.

I want to build a quad so over the top it sticks out like a sore thumb. It was good enough without it ... now its MY QUAD and no one elses..and im happier than a *** with a bag full of dicks that it offends you

i hope it serves as some inspiration to put some emphasis on a sport that seems to be fading in such poor economic times ... but im sure you are intelligent enough to figure that out there kiddo.

Get over it ... the reason there are so many mods for a brand new TURD ..as you call it ... is because many of us have the same vision ... a great quad that can be so over the top ... and reliable enough to sink this kind of money and time in to enjoy for a long long while...

lastly ... if i was on a LIMITED budget ... i damn sure would NOT buy a polaris ..id much rather buy a 2 or 3 year old honda ... or yamaha.. or even a suzuki ... actually id rather buy a Kymco.... anything but a polaris. Hell ..go buy a boat intead .. would still be cheaper over the lifetime of ownership than the polaris ..and boats are serious money pits.

THe comical thing here is ..I'm probably the nicest guy youd ever run into ..and you damn sure wouldnt talk **** like that in person ... and 99% of people that talk the mess you do only do so because your mom and dad didnt give you the attention you crave because they spent all the money at the bar or the gambling boat.

I agree with you on everything you said, except with not buying a polaris, people give them a bad rep because of how they used to be, and I know a lot of kids with yfz's that have a lot more problems then my polaris. Any one know any dealers that let you test drive in orange county, ny? I want to ride one of these 700xx's to get my own opinion on them to see what stuff is true that people are saying and what's not.

trailin'me
10-02-2008, 12:44 PM
yeah ..ive said polaris is getting better ..they may be as good as anything else now ..but it hasnt been that way in the past.

Thats good you have an open enough mind to go ride one ... if you were around here id be happy to let you ride mine.

most atv owners are nice people in person ... hopefully youll run into someone with a 700xx that will let you ride it

Blak92
10-02-2008, 02:39 PM
Originally posted by trailin'me
... and 99% of people that talk the mess you do only do so because your mom and dad didnt give you the attention you crave because they spent all the money at the bar or the gambling boat.

Holy F dude, that had me giggling for a bit... So true though, such a huge reason for the way so many kids are the way they are.

Nice looking XX though man. AC racing nerfs look good, been thinking about those or the IMS pegs/heels and nerfs (nerfs coming in about 6 weeks) but I wasnt sure about the netted heels though??? How are they, you like `em??? I figured if I didnt I would just weld something in. Does the missing plastic around the feet from removing the factory heels make the other piece of plastic rattle around any??

outlaw450mxr
10-02-2008, 03:52 PM
Originally posted by trailin'me
yeah ..ive said polaris is getting better ..they may be as good as anything else now ..but it hasnt been that way in the past.

Thats good you have an open enough mind to go ride one ... if you were around here id be happy to let you ride mine.

most atv owners are nice people in person ... hopefully youll run into someone with a 700xx that will let you ride it

Yea i have yet to run into someone with one, and haven't seen anyone with a ds450 yet either, so those are the only two performance quads out right now i have yet to ride, thats how i know none are crap now like some people say about them.

GE4x4
10-02-2008, 04:23 PM
Originally posted by outlaw450mxr
Yea i have yet to run into someone with one, and haven't seen anyone with a ds450 yet either, so those are the only two performance quads out right now i have yet to ride, thats how i know none are crap now like some people say about them.

I think it's great to see another IRS quad, and I feel there is more to come. Yes there are a few here calling the 700 crap, but the main reason for the back in forth is, that someone said that Honda set the standard on the IRS with the 700 and that the Outlaw was inferior. This was all based on a Baja 500 win and the Honda rep. So the arguement started. Some just can't get over the bad rap Polaris got in the past and still feel they haven't changed. It's to bad there blinders are still on.

trailin'me
10-02-2008, 08:58 PM
im 6'6 ... and with a size 14 boot on .. i dont notice the nets really at all anyway ... I think the idea of having a full net instead of the metal back is to let the mud go through instead of packing up there and creating unsprung weight ..and more importantly ..a very slick spot for your boots ...

I think for mx / flat track the metal backed nerf bars are fine the way they are ... get into GNCC / woods type racing/riding where there is lots of mud and the tracks/trails arent necessarily "groomed" the entire net nerf bar is a very good answer.

IMO this 700 is a natural GNCC/woods racer ... might do good on a TT in the same size bike -- that big heavy 4x4 sport thing from can-am and the raptor of course are the only quads i can think of in the category.

I also feel the polaris IRS would actually do better if the quad was a bit heavier... the issue with polaris irs is the placement of the rear chain ... which is why i said Honda has the better set up ... for obvious reasons... mainly ..the closer you can get to the center axis with the chain/drive shaft ... the more travel and less extreme angle is put on the boots/gears? Make sense? This is also why an 11" wheel is necessary for the honda.

my experience ..and all my friends experience with poopoos has been marginal at best ... more on the yucky side than average... im 30 years old and have yet to see a poopoo impress me with quality time after time .. day after day ...

If a day ever comes where my friends that still work and use atv's in the oil field tell me that polaris quads finally hold up to the work they do (and what i used to do) i will gladly go buy a polaris ... until then ... forget it.

Lastly ... of all the manufacturers of atv's / side x sides .... only ONE would warranty their equipment in the work i used to do ... and they even came out while my crews were working to video and study the absurd amount of abuse and punishment their machines were put through... Honda. Keep in mind all my crews mechanics ever did to honda machines was change oil, blow out the oem air filters, and keep the radiators clean... and whatever was needed at the hourly/mileage the handbook said .... so heavy duty usage was an understatement ...That earned my trust, respect, and LOYALTY ...and frankly its gonna be very difficult for someone to convince me otherwise.

If polaris steps up to the plate ..and their machinery can take 50-80 miles a day 7 days a week running all day long in the most god forbidding horrid environments on the planet day after day after day ... hot ..cold.. rain... swamp ..desert...mountains ... and everything in betweet including salt and brackish water... by all means id give them another look...but they wont ..so most likely i wont either...

So my experiene tells me that if i could pick one machine... and be hours and hours and maybe 50-60 miles from the nearest home or telephone ..or even a road ... or a person ... every day i took a honda and every day i came home ... it didnt take me many days being stuck who knows where with a broken poopoo ranger or sportsman or that 6 wheeler thing not going home to tell me that they were not the machines for me.

My hondas ALWAYS got me home ... my polaris machines didnt. the only other machine that was even close was a kawasaki mule ... so you see I do have a REAL reason to dislike poopoo. You cannot read that in any magazine ... nor do many people even understand what seismograph or pipeline work really is and what it entails ... and my machines were always purchased from local dealers with no add-ons besides fabricated steel racks to hold the heavy equipment while being hauled.

GE4x4
10-03-2008, 03:46 AM
Originally posted by trailin'me
[B
I also feel the polaris IRS would actually do better if the quad was a bit heavier... the issue with polaris irs is the placement of the rear chain ... which is why i said Honda has the better set up ... for obvious reasons... mainly ..the closer you can get to the center axis with the chain/drive shaft ... the more travel and less extreme angle is put on the boots/gears? Make sense? This is also why an 11" wheel is necessary for the honda.
[/B]

May I ask what issue does Polaris have with there chain location?? I don't hear anyone complaining? Sounds like your just caught up in the Honda ad about chain location. You say it gives more travel, yet why does the Outlaw have more? You say that is why they need a 11" wheel, yet why can the Outlaw use a 9"? So no it doesn't make sense. Plus the 700 hasn't been out long enough to see if that is even a benifit. So the Honda ad telling everyone how great the center chain placement hasn't proved anything other then a wordy ad that sounds good and made you believe it.

As far as you past experience with Polaris, I can see why the dislike. What Polaris quads did you use for the pipeline that you had so much trouble with? And what Honda's do you use?

Blak92
10-03-2008, 05:28 AM
Good point about the mud packing in the heels, think I will go netted cause I never ride on anything groomed.

I dont think that the outlaw was that bad... For some reason I did get a cheap feel from it, fit/finish type crap, but I did like it a lot. Motor was great, didnt shift AS NICE, but not bad compared to the XX. I think the 09 is growing on me as far as looks wise, and I hope that they are nicer now cause they step up thier game. AND WOW, the new 850 sportsman looks BAD. I might be in the market for one in about 5 years or so, I hope they prove to be a nice 4x4, cause I really like the way it looks.

I sorta agree though on the polaris past (and recent) quality issue... riding up at tower city in those conditions, its rough on a bike. And MOST, of the machines I see having problems starting etc etc, even if they are EFI, are polaris... Not that they are breaking at some sorta unresonable rate, but its just usually a polaris having a hard time, not a yamaha or honda etc....

Never seen a can-am being towed up there.... hmmm......

Blak92
10-03-2008, 05:31 AM
Originally posted by GE4x4
May I ask what issue does Polaris have with there chain location?? I don't hear anyone complaining? Sounds like your just caught up in the Honda ad about chain location. You say it gives more travel, yet why does the Outlaw have more? You say that is why they need a 11" wheel, yet why can the Outlaw use a 9"? So no it doesn't make sense. Plus the 700 hasn't been out long enough to see if that is even a benifit. So the Honda ad telling everyone how great the center chain placement hasn't proved anything other then a wordy ad that sounds good and made you believe it.

As far as you past experience with Polaris, I can see why the dislike. What Polaris quads did you use for the pipeline that you had so much trouble with? And what Honda's do you use?

Seems like ive read a lot about outlaws pulling a TINY bit to one side cause of the shorter axle... but thats the only thing ive heard of. And some sprocket bolts working loose, but thats got nothing to do with location.

OutlawBill
10-03-2008, 05:46 AM
Originally posted by trailin'me
.

If polaris steps up to the plate ..and their machinery can take 50-80 miles a day 7 days a week running all day long in the most god forbidding horrid environments on the planet day after day after day ... hot ..cold.. rain... swamp ..desert...mountains ... and everything in betweet including salt and brackish water... by all means id give them another look...but they wont ..so most likely i wont either...

how about 180 too 200 mile a day for 7 days race. They have proven they can due what you ask for in the U.S. Army. The army has been using Polaris in all those places and they just ask for more Polaris UTV's

scuzz
10-03-2008, 08:06 AM
Originally posted by OutlawBill
how about 180 too 200 mile a day for 7 days race. They have proven they can due what you ask for in the U.S. Army. The army has been using Polaris in all those places and they just ask for more Polaris UTV's


Not to discredit you, but I'm assuming the army went with Polaris because it's (mostly) American made. There are surely better alternatives for them. They just have to keep it in America. I know it's that way in the IT industry too. Offshoring = a no-no.

OutlawBill
10-03-2008, 08:19 AM
Originally posted by scuzz
Not to discredit you, but I'm assuming the army went with Polaris because it's (mostly) American made. There are surely better alternatives for them. They just have to keep it in America. I know it's that way in the IT industry too. Offshoring = a no-no. I think most of the UTV's are made in America now.

scuzz
10-03-2008, 08:27 AM
Originally posted by OutlawBill
I think most of the UTV's are made in America now.


Right, don't be confused by "made in America" and American owned. The Army wants American Owned and specifies it in most of their contracts. You can't even have your helpdesk offshored.

Polaris is both. The rest of the quads and bikes cannot say that. (even though they have engine's made elseware)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polaris_Industries

Polaris Industries (NYSE: PII) is a snowmobile and ATV manufacturer, based in Medina, Minnesota, USA. The company also manufactures motorcycles, through its Victory Motorcycles subsidiary.

Robin (a subsidiary of Fuji Heavy Industries, which is the owner of Subaru) develops and supplies all-terrain vehicle (ATV) and snowmobile engines for U.S.-based leisure equipment maker Polaris Industries Inc, it is important to note that starting in 1997, with the introduction of the "twin 700" Polaris started the development and production of in-house produced powerplants, know as the "Liberty" line of engines, now found in many models across their current production lines. This production makes many Polaris products 100% American made. (Fuji Heavy Industries now also maintains a US based production plant, in conjunction with Polaris, so that all engines are now American Made)

In late 2005 Polaris Industries announced that it would purchase a portion of KTM Motorcycles. Through this venture KTM has developed their own ATV and Polaris has developed Sport ATVs which utilize the KTM 525 and 450 powerplants that have seen great success on the ATV racing circuit.

In 2008 Polaris started backing H-Bomb films freestyle/race team The Bomb Squad. Alongside the Bomb Squad, Polaris also sponsors their own team, which has racers in all the GNCC, WORCS, WPSA, and ITP QuadCross series.

scuzz
10-03-2008, 08:30 AM
lol I sound like a Polaris Spokesperson!

OutlawBill
10-03-2008, 09:21 AM
Now back too the topic which is better 700XX or 525 IRS? Either one is better than any SA as far has I am concerned. Love the ride. I would pick the quad on your local dealer you like and have had a good relation with.

scuzz
10-03-2008, 09:25 AM
Originally posted by OutlawBill
Now back too the topic which is better 700XX or 525 IRS? Either one is better than any SA as far has I am concerned. Love the ride. I would pick the quad on your local dealer you like and have had a good relation with.

I second that.

troybilt
10-03-2008, 10:06 AM
Originally posted by OutlawBill
Now back too the topic which is better 700XX or 525 IRS? Either one is better than any SA as far has I am concerned. Love the ride. I would pick the quad on your local dealer you like and have had a good relation with.

Thank you!, ...enough of the name calling on this thread already. Yes, I have a good Polaris dealer here in my town, I bought a RZR and a Ranger Xp from them this year already good people. They don't have the 09's in yet to take a closer look at.

However, I did get a chance last weekend to take my first up close look at the 700XX. I thought it was clutch from the pics I've seen, but it certainly does look even better in person. I think the IRS is the ticket for the trails I have nearby to ride. Right now my 250R, is basically a garage trophy and never gets used. Its not set up for the tight stuff, mostly dunes. I thought, that if I get something with IRS I go ride much more often.

People, can say what they will about IRS, but it has its purpose. I don't believe it was meant to be the do-all be-all set up but another option for consumers to ponder.

trailin'me
10-03-2008, 10:45 AM
Originally posted by GE4x4
May I ask what issue does Polaris have with there chain location?? I don't hear anyone complaining? Sounds like your just caught up in the Honda ad about chain location. You say it gives more travel, yet why does the Outlaw have more? You say that is why they need a 11" wheel, yet why can the Outlaw use a 9"? So no it doesn't make sense. Plus the 700 hasn't been out long enough to see if that is even a benifit. So the Honda ad telling everyone how great the center chain placement hasn't proved anything other then a wordy ad that sounds good and made you believe it.

As far as you past experience with Polaris, I can see why the dislike. What Polaris quads did you use for the pipeline that you had so much trouble with? And what Honda's do you use?

if you pull the Polaris Outlaw and Honda trx700xx next to each other and look at the rears at the same time .... just look and you will see what i notice ... Its almost like Honda said hmmm ... this this and this is not how we would do it ... and this could be better ...ect... so they did it. Now that could simply be me favoring a honda ..and trying to use logic on how each company came up with their version of IRS.

As far as usage ... Polaris Sportsman 500 ho, Scrambler (i was field supervisor so i only used a ute when necessary), Polaris Ranger, and the 6 wheel drive thing (which i broke in less than 12 hours hauling a full load of cables and Polaris would not warranty).

Honda use was the original 400 foreman (witout the ES crap) and the foreman 450 (without the es crap) and the 400ex (again I needed to get places in a hurry most of the time)

Kawaski Prarie 400 ... Mule... and lakota 300

There is nothing more american than good ol hard working oil field stuff. I take pride in American labor (lifetime UTU member) and also was a welder (not very good one haha).

At the end of the day ... this wasn't some race tha only lasted a week ... and I didnt even mention the night crews getting on the same equipment and doing the same again... basically doubling what I just stated in previous posts ... this was YOU DIDNT GET PAID if the work wasn't finished ..and if your machine was broken .. obviously you didnt get paid.

I did break some Hondas ... broken a-arms ... bent wheels ... broken chains ... I even broke an axle and craked the crank cover on one with a mallet ....Honda dealers were suspicious when we'd bring a 6 month old quad with 7000 miles on it already replaced all the brake parts 6 or 7 times and the plastics were all broken with heavy *** racks on them ... pretty much the same with all the manufacturers ... but again Honda was the only one that said HELL YEAH ..well warranty it ..but we have no clue WTF or HTF you put this many miles on our equipment... so like i said ..they actually came from Cali to witness an entire fleet of their machines doing what anyone could only dream of machines doing... exactly what they were designed for times 10,000. Even the honda engineers were impressed.

They were gonna make a commercial with some of the footage ... about that time I left that work for the Railroad Industry ...

My friends are STILL using Honda ... and a canadian company was pushing hard to use Polaris ..and even put it in a contract ... my best friend objected ..and then made a stipulation that every time a PooPoo broke down ...that the time lost was on the company making polaris part of the contract (they paid dearly)... was agreed on...

That company will not use Polaris again to say the least.

So yeah ..everyone has that support our economy feeling .. and any AMERICAN likes to support AMERICAN ... but when your paychecks are short due to the AMERICAN made quad ... thats no better than buying a HONDA and bringing the money home to feed your kids.

oh ..now that quads have almost been banned completely from most oil-field work ..guess what ... my best friend said some Honda guru in Cali called them and noticed they weren't using Honda quads in the numbers they once had (using mules and teryx's) ..and let them demo several of the Honda Big Red side x side months before it was even released for sale to the public... that machine is a beast that can eat nails and **** fire ..but thats another topic ..and yes Honda honors the warranty with those no questions asked.

and this does make a point going back to the 525irs poopoo v. honda trx700xx ... when i said id pick the honda based on reliability and how the irs is set up...

as far as I'm concerned ... Polaris does not make enough different equipment for one to be WAAAAY better than something else they produce ... which seems like they should be able to concentrate soley on their stuff to make it bulletproof (which i hope they do), but they haven't yet. Maybe they will take the notion from Honda ..and take a Honda machine ..and in turn make it better.

Blak92
10-03-2008, 12:17 PM
Originally posted by OutlawBill
Either one is better than any SA as far has I am concerned. Love the ride.


Sums this thread up the best.

trailin'me
10-04-2008, 09:27 AM
agreed... The ride of IRS speaksfor itself.

curioues-atv
10-04-2008, 12:04 PM
the 700xx is low mantance smooth, all day riding joy get a better front bumper if u run into things the 525irs has the ktm full race bike lot of mantance lot of upkeep thats not for me i like to to addd gas and go thats why i would choose the 700xx for woods,fire roads and trail riding for me add pipe top to get more tourque and power

525 Outlaw Dude
10-18-2008, 10:28 PM
this is my thought, either one is cool!!! got to give honda the fit and finish lol i had my 525irs for about a month and the black plastics looked like **** but i have a ct pipe, cam and jet and K&N filter and i rarly loose :) so im not complaining :p But my advice would be, get the red o8 irs and put a ct pipe, bumper and full skid plate and let it rip ;)

525 Outlaw Dude
10-18-2008, 10:31 PM
ow and if you want to see how it does on the dunes, i raced some modded bikes and two barker duel rapters and beat them and to add they had haulers and i had sand starts lol
-just check out youtube.com under (outlaw Vs. quads) is me in the blue

10-18-2008, 11:00 PM
yall just watch this and the others just bow down and kiss yamaha's *** !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFYtW7tmiXw

SPDSNYPR
10-19-2008, 03:09 PM
Well, a single drag race on youtube does seem to be a definitive test of a quad's overall quality. :rolleyes:

RATPACK Z400
11-04-2008, 08:17 PM
All you boneheads that think your IRS quads are better than the SRA quads where are the results show me fools! Cause there is none! gncc no irs quads beating sra quads, mx,desert. where are they better please with the SRA hating cause you cant ride one no more cause your a a wuss ,fat or old.

trailin'me
11-04-2008, 10:32 PM
or maybe youre 12 and until now there was only one IRS sportquad... and the honda was released late last desert season ...which happend to place first and third in the baja 500... hmm...

oh ..thats one model with IRS getting FIRST and THIRD the VERY FIRST race entered.

so kiddo ..before you open your mouth and say something more irrelevant ... plz do some research before making yourself sound even more foolish and immature.

SPDSNYPR
11-04-2008, 11:12 PM
Originally posted by RATPACK Z400
All you boneheads that think your IRS quads are better than the SRA quads where are the results show me fools! Cause there is none! gncc no irs quads beating sra quads, mx,desert. where are they better please with the SRA hating cause you cant ride one no more cause your a a wuss ,fat or old.

Your grasp of the English language is impressive. :rolleyes:

Go out and make your fortune while you still know everything.

troybilt
11-05-2008, 06:52 AM
My next quad will be IRS, just still undecided bw the po-po and the Honda, that's where this discussion should be.

I've been riding SRA quads since 1986 and they have there place. I think IRS will be the hot ticket where I have to ride, which is extremely rough terrain. Which, BTW, I won't even bother getting my SRA quad out of the garage for.

So the IRS bashers need not apply to this thread.

Thanks for your unwanted input.

trailin'me
11-05-2008, 12:09 PM
good post there troybilt ... of course im gonna try to persuade you to get the honda .... but i dont know what sort of factors you are weighing before your purchase.

RATPACK Z400
11-05-2008, 07:41 PM
thought I get you guys stirred up ! ha ha let get real baja a honda event you,d be stupid not to ride honda.

RealMcCoy890
02-02-2009, 09:58 AM
Ok well here is my take on it. I own a 08 525 irs, and owned an 06 outlaw 500. I have not had a chance to ride the honda yet but I will in the near future. My family runs a privately owned atv park and we have had a couple down at the park and they look like an extremely well built machine of course what would you expect from honda.(by the way I like any make of machine that fits my riding style) That being said, facts are facts. The outlaw is a bit more of an aggressive machine off the show room floor. I enjoy tight trail woods racing and hitting the mx track. Now the outlaw has the low end grunt to launch you off the lip of a jump with just a little goose, from what I saw and from what the gentleman told me is he had to get his speed up before the lip, much like the case of my outlaw 500. Both machines are almost untouchable on the trails or rocky hills and ruts. But in more tight turning situations the outlaw will out perform, that might also have to do with the weight and the fox podiums that come stock on the outlaw. And on the off center sprocket, my 525 only pulls to one side when I'm in a wheelie and my tire pressure is uneven. With the tire pressure even there are no worries. And now for the heart breaker. (this is the honest to gods truth) in a 150 ft. drag race the honda lost to a chick on a yfz450 3 out of 4 times. After that, he dam sure didn't want any of the 525. Dirttrax TV did a great review on the 700xx here is the link its a great episode.http://www.dirttraxtv.com/episodeplayer/index.php?category=1&video=30 .....My take is that the honda stock, is for more open faster trails where you can take advantage of all the displacement, but along with anything else can be taylor tuned for specific riding applications. The oultaw WILL out accelerate the 700xx stock to stock. And the 700xx does have a higher top end, but your gonna need a pretty open area to get there. In my opinion they should have left the 6th gear in the ktm tranny. So if you are like me and like to hit the trails hard and also hit the mx track hard you will be better off with the outlaw, if your gonna stay on the trails, in the rocks, or mud and like the rush of pinning it in an open area and holding it there you might just like the 700xx more. But you gotta love the smaller bore with that much snap! Both machines are cutting edge IMO. But out of the box the outlaw is the more aggressive machine.

scuzz
02-02-2009, 10:07 AM
I have a buddy with a KTM525XC (jetted and FMF piped), his son has an Outlaw 525s (stock) and is just under 100 pounds. His dad beat him almost every time when they switched bikes.

So, the rider has a LOT to do with who wins a drag race.

(Now they're almost even)

RealMcCoy890
02-02-2009, 10:32 AM
That couldnt be more true scuzz, but look at the displacment, one would think even if she beat him off the line (wich was pretty even each start) that the bigger motor would walk her down. But there was just not enough open space for the big bore to catch up with itself.

deathcorefan2
02-02-2009, 04:00 PM
NOW. all this talk about a drag race.

END.
http://www.atvsport.com/output.cfm?ID=1698643

100 yard dash.

outlaw 525 s - 6.05 sec.
Outlaw 525 IRS - 6.16 sec
700xx - 6.27 sec

also, lmfao @ all the 700xx owners defending the 700 and the 525 owners defending the 525.

me, im a honda rider. but the outlaw is a better machine.

walrusfarm
02-02-2009, 04:26 PM
I just got done reading this entire thread, and most of you have valid points. But I must ask.... does mxcowboy have anything even remotely intelligent to say? Oh and by the way I am a fan of the polaris.

OutlawBill
02-02-2009, 07:51 PM
1.15 min in to second video nice slow motion of 700xx in the desert

http://www.racevisions.org/racevisions-movies.htm

scuzz
02-03-2009, 07:36 AM
Originally posted by OutlawBill
1.15 min in to second video nice slow motion of 700xx in the desert

http://www.racevisions.org/racevisions-movies.htm


That's Wayne Matlock btw.

OutlawBill
02-03-2009, 08:05 AM
No Josh Caster Wayne team mate Wayne was the 4th quad, Josh was 1st in quad class Wayne was 2nd

scuzz
02-03-2009, 08:13 AM
Originally posted by OutlawBill
No Josh Caster Wayne team mate Wayne was the 4th quad, Josh was 1st in quad class Wayne was 2nd


My mistake, you are correct. I'm a mod over at club700xx and J Cast had actually posted that.

Ooops.

J Caster
02-09-2009, 12:48 PM
Originally posted by RATPACK Z400
All you boneheads that think your IRS quads are better than the SRA quads where are the results show me fools! Cause there is none! gncc no irs quads beating sra quads, mx,desert. where are they better please with the SRA hating cause you cant ride one no more cause your a a wuss ,fat or old.

Proof? Winning the toughest off-road races aren't proof enough?

The Honda TRX700XX won both the Baja 500 and Baja 1000.

If thats not proof enough for ya then look at the results here-

http://www.bitd.com/results/2008/2008HendFTDC/2008HendFTDCMQIMRes.pdf

I finished 43 minutes ahead of the next quad while riding a Honda TRX700XX.


And if thats still not proof enough for you then look at the results for the last 2 races in District-38 where 2 TRX700XX's finished 1 & 2 well ahead of the next finisher.

www.amad38.com


The Honda TRX700XX is the real deal and Honda's IRS set up works. All I have to say is look out bikes cause now you have a quad that is able to take the overall!

OutlawBill
02-09-2009, 02:51 PM
Josh you are fast on any quad but I due think you are faster on the 700xx

Backstabber
02-10-2009, 04:54 PM
I'm looking to buy right at this moment! I've ridden so many quads over the last two years. I had a 400ex which was, yes, a small machine but was so easy to ride and so damn reliable. Thats what will probably make me go back to honda. I've seen to outlaw IRS walk away from yzf 450's just because there were a few bumps the yzf couldn't handle(yzf not being a trail quad). Basically Polaris was ahead of its time when it came to trail sport quads and they did awesome. I take nothing from it but at the end of the day I dont think you'll notice the weight difference too much. I keep reading articles and watching videos that state honda's machine feels light even with all that weight. I wish honda didn't make it such a lil' piggy but I'm hearing great things from people who have actually ridden it and not just nay sayers. Look at snowmobiles, yamaha made the apex which is a 1000cc 4stroke beast they weighs a ton yet in the trails it handles better than all the others. I know this from actual riding experience. So yea the weight sounds scary but if Honda built the machine right(which you know they did) then even with the extra 100 lbs. it should handle great and leave you not so tired at the end of the day. I believe both are great quads but honda's machine has great power for muddy situations in the trails, its more comfortalbe to sit on and you can't pass up that lengendary reliability. I rode last year with a raptor 700R in the trails on my 400ex. I kept saying how the raptor 700R needs independent rear supsension like the outlaw. Well, a great company like honda has put the two together and made a beastly quality machine. Can't wait to own it.:devil:

GE4x4
02-10-2009, 05:33 PM
If I could set the 700xx like I did with my Outlaw, I would give it a try. For desert trails and races, I think the 700xx is tuff to beat. But in xc tight trail racing it will be harder to set up. I'm glad Honda came out with the irs and IMHO all will follow in the near future. IMHO the 700xx still need a few things to be a good xc racer, and hopefully in future modles they will address that.

fasterblaster02
02-11-2009, 10:15 AM
I cannot understand how you people cannot feel that big of a weight difference. I raced the lightest full size sport quad ever built last year (87 Suzuki LT250R) in harescrambles and GNCC. I race along with my two cousins, who have a 400ex and a z400. Getting onto these machines after riding my LT250r, I can feel a weight difference when riding, and that is only approximately 50 lbs difference. IN this guy's case, I wouldnt want to go from the 2nd lightest fullsize sport quad ever built (Honda 250r) to the much much heavier 700xx. Thats just my 2 cents. In my experience, weight does matter, and it matters A LOT. If he is not racing, then it may not be as big of a deal.

smo0oth1
02-11-2009, 10:56 AM
You people?

There is only a 50 pound difference between the outlaw and XX when full with fluids. When you have a heavier machine as these two and you add 50lbs it isn't as noticeable as adding 50lbs to a 250-300lb machine.
It's a percentage... ya know math? lets look at it. When you add 50lbs to a 450lb machine it is only a 11% weight increase. When you add 50lbs to a 250lb machine it is a 20% weight increase. Are you seeing this? Understanding?
Do you realize weight is not always handicap in a race? A heavier machine with proper suspension will not be affected as much by trail obstacles as a lighter one that will get tossed around on them. You may say you can jus "fly though it" on a lighter machine but that is not always the case.
Lastly you are comparing weight differences on different bikes. Neither bike has the same center of gravity etc etc making "the weight" feel and ride different then what you are accustomed to.
But anyway, your opinion and mine are just that.. opinions.

GE4x4
02-11-2009, 11:59 AM
I don't know where your getting that the Outlaw irs is only 50lbs lighter then the 700xx. But it's close to 80lbs. The Outlaw is 389 dry. The 08 Outlaw was weighed wet at 444lbs. The 09 is 6lbs lighter and also has 1 less gal of gas at 3.0 gal. That's another 7lbs. Take that off the 08 weight of 444lbs wet, the 09 would be 431lbs wet. The 700xx is 508lbs. So 77lbs is the real difference. Now add 77lbs to a 431lb quad is 18% difference. That in XC racing you will feel. Wide open areas you will not, but in the tight stuff you will. Most 450's wet are around 390lbs, add 18% to that and that would put them at 460lbs. Nobody would be caught dead racing a 460lb 450.:eek:

scuzz
02-11-2009, 12:19 PM
Originally posted by GE4x4
Nobody would be caught dead racing a 460lb 450.:eek:


It all depends on the kind of racing you do I guess...

GE4x4
02-11-2009, 12:58 PM
Originally posted by scuzz
It all depends on the kind of racing you do I guess...

What racing would you do with a 460lb 450 in?

smo0oth1
02-11-2009, 01:04 PM
Originally posted by GE4x4
I don't know where your getting that the Outlaw irs is only 50lbs lighter then the 700xx. But it's close to 80lbs. The Outlaw is 389 dry. The 08 Outlaw was weighed wet at 444lbs. The 09 is 6lbs lighter and also has 1 less gal of gas at 3.0 gal. That's another 7lbs. Take that off the 08 weight of 444lbs wet, the 09 would be 431lbs wet. The 700xx is 508lbs. So 77lbs is the real difference. Now add 77lbs to a 431lb quad is 18% difference. That in XC racing you will feel. Wide open areas you will not, but in the tight stuff you will. Most 450's wet are around 390lbs, add 18% to that and that would put them at 460lbs. Nobody would be caught dead racing a 460lb 450.:eek:

Where did the 450's come into the conversation?

scuzz
02-11-2009, 01:15 PM
Originally posted by GE4x4
What racing would you do with a 460lb 450 in?


I can't fit on a 450. I'm 6'6" and a 450 is underpowered and too small.

GE4x4
02-11-2009, 01:32 PM
Originally posted by smo0oth1
Where did the 450's come into the conversation?


I was going off you post on % of weight. You said adding 50lbs to a lighter quad is much more difference then adding 50lbs to a heavier. You said the % would be more. So I did mine off % what a 18% difference is between irs quads in relation to the 450's. Thus showing you add the same % to any quad no matter how heavy, you will feel the difference.:macho

smo0oth1
02-11-2009, 05:16 PM
No you missed, let me put it in less words.

50lbs on a "light quad" will be more noticeable than 50lbs on a "heavy quad"

You seemed to dwell on the bit of the outlaw weight, There was no intention to put down your quad, I was comparing our "heavy quads" to fasterblasters "light quad" in general.

GE4x4
02-11-2009, 05:26 PM
:macho

Backstabber
02-11-2009, 06:42 PM
I hate these never ending arguements that lose meaning. I think if you're an experienced rider you wont have an issue with the 50 extra lbs. which from what I hear aren't noticeable. They're both great quads but my last quad was a honda and I know they're tough as balls. I love the polaris as well, I've seen them perform and they're great. I think either choice is a wise one. I know some people say the Honda has been beaten by 450's in a sprint which there could be a lot of variables such as rider capability. The video I watched stated the honda having a slower bottom end but thats because they geared it so high. The motor is producing massive power though. A quick sprocket change will put a stop to that if you're looking to drag race the thing. Bottom line, if the weight of 50 lbs. scares you that much then buy the Polaris. I'd personally rather have the EFI, crazy reliable and IMO better looking Honda. :devil:

deathcorefan2
02-14-2009, 09:12 PM
Originally posted by Backstabber
I hate these never ending arguements that lose meaning. I think if you're an experienced rider you wont have an issue with the 50 extra lbs. which from what I hear aren't noticeable. They're both great quads but my last quad was a honda and I know they're tough as balls. I love the polaris as well, I've seen them perform and they're great. I think either choice is a wise one. I know some people say the Honda has been beaten by 450's in a sprint which there could be a lot of variables such as rider capability. The video I watched stated the honda having a slower bottom end but thats because they geared it so high. The motor is producing massive power though. A quick sprocket change will put a stop to that if you're looking to drag race the thing. Bottom line, if the weight of 50 lbs. scares you that much then buy the Polaris. I'd personally rather have the EFI, crazy reliable and IMO better looking Honda. :devil:

thats crazy, i know to each his own, but that 700 IS UGLY.
it looks like cheap chinese one.

i can't imagine the outlaw with EFI.

:eek2:

04hemiboy
02-15-2009, 04:46 PM
Originally posted by deathcorefan2
thats crazy, i know to each his own, but that 700 IS UGLY.
it looks like cheap chinese one.

i can't imagine the outlaw with EFI.

:eek2:

The 700XX isn't bad looking at all.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y299/04hemiboy/IMG_2520.jpg

SPDSNYPR
02-16-2009, 01:17 AM
Originally posted by deathcorefan2
thats crazy, i know to each his own, but that 700 IS UGLY.
it looks like cheap chinese one.


You've lost your mind, boy. The xx looks sweets.

Backstabber
02-16-2009, 07:32 AM
Originally posted by deathcorefan2
thats crazy, i know to each his own, but that 700 IS UGLY.
it looks like cheap chinese one.

i can't imagine the outlaw with EFI.

:eek2:
Cheap chinese? I dont think you've seen the outlaw in person then. I looked at them side by side at the dealership and the outlaw by far looks like a cheap chinese knock off. Looks aside, the outlaw performs well with the ktm motor and IRS. My friend raced one on his yfz 450. They were even until they hit uneven ground, at that point the outlaw walked away. Considering how fast the yfz is thats impressive.:devil:

OutlawBill
02-16-2009, 02:07 PM
If you want to see what the 700xx does in the sesert chech out the D-38 races http://www.racevisions.org/racevisions-movies.htm

deathcorefan2
02-16-2009, 02:17 PM
lol.

http://www.xtremefirepower.com/popup_image.php?pID=152&image=0

OutlawBill
02-16-2009, 02:57 PM
Originally posted by deathcorefan2
lol.

http://www.xtremefirepower.com/popup_image.php?pID=152&image=0 :confused: :confused: :confused:

deathcorefan2
02-16-2009, 03:37 PM
Originally posted by OutlawBill
:confused: :confused: :confused:

add sharper downward fenders and there is your 700xx.

hahaha

04hemiboy
02-16-2009, 03:39 PM
Originally posted by deathcorefan2
add sharper downward fenders and there is your 700xx.

hahaha

You're retarded. The 400ex any better looking?

OutlawBill
02-16-2009, 04:01 PM
Originally posted by deathcorefan2
add sharper downward fenders and there is your 700xx.

hahaha

you ned go see the eye doctor and get you eyes check out :D

deathcorefan2
02-16-2009, 07:46 PM
Originally posted by OutlawBill
you ned go see the eye doctor and get you eyes check out :D

try to tell me that it doesnt have the sane looking headlight and stuff.

Backstabber
02-16-2009, 09:15 PM
These guys are cranking, haha. Its a 525 irs vs a 700xx. There is a list of specs on the side by the user name.:devil:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVkes_GqtuI&feature=related

Backstabber
02-17-2009, 05:56 PM
Well, I brought it home today and took it out for a half hour. Too muddy to tell how fast she is but she handled well in the mud and I was hitting some 20' table top jumps. She landed nice and soft. I like this machine so far!:devil:

Backstabber
02-17-2009, 05:59 PM
I love this! IRS is pimp!:devil:

Backstabber
03-23-2009, 12:13 PM
Originally posted by troybilt
I read some of the extra weight is do to the centered gear drive, basically an extra set of gears to move the chain and final drive to the center of the chassis. How much does this improve the suspension geometry? ...vs. weight addition and power-loss?

For a larger rider, which machine has more room?

The 11" wheels don't bother me that much. I run 10's on my 250R what's another inch anyway.... :D :D :D

Weight to me isn't that much of a big deal... sure in the dunes, the lighter the better, (which is the majority of my riding). Although with an IRS machine, I'm may do alot more trail riding since that is what is close to my home.

What about power delivery? I read the 525 absolutely screams, the magazine articles I read on the 700XX claim this is a pretty mellow engine? Is that true? ...in your opinion?

I'll be honest, I'm a Honda and Polaris fan. So the brand name is a mute point to me. I'm really torn bw the two IRS machines. I didn't like the look of the older Outlaw's but I really like the 09's otherwise it was an easy decision before.

I'm 5'11" tall and weigh in at 160lbs. soaking wet. I ride this machine like I stole it. You dont feel the extra weight at all, I was riding a 400ex less than a year ago. Dont listen to the magazines, the power of this machine is amazing! I was at the Rocky Glen yesterday and I let a Raptor 700R guy try my quad, he admitted he wasn't used to the IRS but the power was amazing. He said she really moves! Thats coming from a 700R owner, not me and everyone knows the 700R moves. Just some food for thought.:devil:

troybilt
03-23-2009, 01:28 PM
Good to know, I'm 6' and ~235, besides I'm not into MX or anything anyway,

Just got back from the dunes and saw 2 XX's there, I didnt' get too much of a look at them though, they sounded pretty good. I wanted to see them ride, but it was so crowded it was hard to get a good look at anything.

Backstabber
03-23-2009, 03:51 PM
Originally posted by troybilt
Good to know, I'm 6' and ~235, besides I'm not into MX or anything anyway,

Just got back from the dunes and saw 2 XX's there, I didnt' get too much of a look at them though, they sounded pretty good. I wanted to see them ride, but it was so crowded it was hard to get a good look at anything.
I'm a fan of both the outlaw and the XX. I think the XX would fit you better since you're a bigger guy. Trust me though, the xx is a very fast machine with tons of power. I really dont understand why all these magazines are tearing this thing to shreds but its fast. I have a couple videos up in the "video" section. The Rocky Glen video you can see how the machine handles and jumps. The table top had no lip and tons of bumps before it. Even with all those issues I was able to clear it by the end of the day which not even the raptor guys could do. :devil:

scuzz
03-27-2009, 09:23 AM
Originally posted by troybilt
Good to know, I'm 6' and ~235, besides I'm not into MX or anything anyway,

Just got back from the dunes and saw 2 XX's there, I didnt' get too much of a look at them though, they sounded pretty good. I wanted to see them ride, but it was so crowded it was hard to get a good look at anything.


Were they stock?

troybilt
03-27-2009, 10:08 AM
Originally posted by scuzz
Were they stock?

Not sure. I saw a grey and black one w/out paddles and a red and black one with paddles. The red one look wider that usual and may've had an exhaust. I just saw while driving thru the campsite on the RZR. The grey one was stock from what I could tell and was camping near me.

One thing I notice was the paddles (ITP dune stars or similar) looked as though there were on too narrow of wheels in the rear. The paddles somewhat buldged. But it also looked like there was rear spacers and maybe ext aarms on front.

scuzz
03-27-2009, 10:25 AM
Originally posted by troybilt


One thing I notice was the paddles (ITP dune stars or similar) looked as though there were on too narrow of wheels in the rear. The paddles somewhat buldged. But it also looked like there was rear spacers and maybe ext aarms on front.

Looked like this garbage (and yes, they are mounted on the wrong sides):


http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j254/gwwaddle/TRX700XX/100_9267.jpg

When these are on mine I call it the 700XX ditch witch. I'm hoping Rocky Mountain ATV warranties them out now too. No hookup and the paddles are splitting away from the carcass. Junk. Junk. Junk. I was happier with my stock tires.

troybilt
03-27-2009, 11:46 AM
Yeah, that's it exactly... Is the wheel selection getting better? I'm hoping eventually I can pick up a used 700 sometime, when the eco gets better...

scuzz
03-27-2009, 12:44 PM
Wheel selection is only slightly better with the aftermarket offering the 10" wheels as a crumb. Now douglas wheels is offering rims in 11", which Wayne Matlock is running in his races and on his Honda sponsored quad.

Tire manufacturers need to step up and make a paddle tire to fir the 11" rim now.


Also, new ones are going out the door for $5.2 k....

deathcorefan2
04-13-2009, 08:57 PM
lol it isnt worth arguing anymore.

this is the 700xx section. biased opinons.

smo0oth1
04-13-2009, 09:57 PM
Who's arguing? Behave now kids!

scuzz
04-16-2009, 07:33 AM
Originally posted by troybilt
Yeah, that's it exactly... Is the wheel selection getting better? I'm hoping eventually I can pick up a used 700 sometime, when the eco gets better...

Just got my Skat Trak edges in. Woooohooo!

smo0oth1
04-16-2009, 11:46 AM
Pics installed?

scuzz
04-16-2009, 01:02 PM
My 4 year old turns 5 today, I might not have time until tomorrow to put them on. They look 100x better then those skinny sand snakes!

700Xxrida
09-16-2009, 03:17 PM
the only thing holding me back from getting the outlaw irs is the realibity what do you guys think of the realibity of the outlaw










xx with big 3 and fox floats

skier207
09-16-2009, 07:05 PM
I own a 07 525 IRS From rider standpoint it is a great machine. From reliabilty standpoint, you better like spending money and weekends fixing it. In less than 30 hours of trail riding, two CV boots torn(not by debris just failed)$90.00 ea. Trans doesn't always hit second on the first try(internal trans issue). Clutch is on it's way out. I hear from several local ATV shops that outer CV joints($210.00ea) Ifound mine had almost no grease from the factory, and front wheel bearing failures are common. Had to mod the seat latch to keep the seat from unlatching itself. One more thing if you need headlight bulbs somewhere along the way 30.00 each only available from Polaris. I almost forgot, the sprocket bolt recall.

I bought a 700xx way better engineered machine. If you still want an Outlaw, mine is for sale. I can make you such a deal....

tayyo789
10-01-2009, 10:55 PM
First off, i would like to say that i have never ridden either machine. I own mostly Hondas, but i dont like to consider myself biased in any way. The 700xx's engine is very similar to the xr650r dual sport that has won many, many baja races. I have experience with this motor as i have put it in a 400ex chassis. Sure, my version, or as close as i could make, of the 700 is lighter. In fact it is over 20 pounds lighter than my 400ex. If the xx is anything like the xr, then this motor has some serious potential as far as power goes. My hybrid is on the verge of being scary when i really get on it. the xx has a larger displacement and a redesigned, head, and gearing, etc. But if it responds to modifications as well as the xr powerplant does, it is almost the perfect chassis for that motor. The weight would help to keep the bike on the ground.
As far as the argument for straight axles vs. IRS goes, give me a break. Both types of suspension have their pros and their cons, but with proper riding technique, they can be ridden effectively, and at high speed in any almost any situation. When going from one to the other, just change your riding style and you can still go just as fast.
I feel that Honda was VERY innovative when coming up with this machine. I see the IRS design and it brings me back to Can Am and the trailing arm setup they put on the Outlanders. Innovative, yes. Accepted by the public? Not as much as I expected. Everybody is entitled to their preferences but its no reason to have this large of a debate about. Its almost like arguing over which color is the best.
I personally prefer the Honda. Baja was just proof that this machine is more than capable. Sure, the factory support is unmatched at the time, but think about this. Why in the world would Honda want to spend that much money at those events? Probably because the machines that were being raced were all Hondas, and they wanted to show their support to the people who understood

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

700xxmaniac
05-14-2010, 06:54 AM
Originally posted by GE4x4
The Outlaw IRS won the Dakar series this year which is considered the most punishing race out there. In fact 6 out of the top 11 were on Outlaw IRS quads. The Outlaw just won a huge race in Astralia. Look at the home page on this site and see. And what is really sweet about his win. He was allmost bone stock. We saw the winning Baja 700xx and he was far from stock.

the 700xx that won the baja was a very light build for a baja quad some of the 450r's have big bore kit and extreme port jobs.
only mods were elka stage 3 shocks houser front a arms. hmf full pipe and a abla stage 3 kit, fast flex bars. and a few other things

tayyo789
05-14-2010, 12:09 PM
Yes the xx that has won the last few baja's has had a stock motor. Even Dirtwheels admitted it lol

700xxmaniac
05-18-2010, 03:09 PM
Originally posted by tayyo789
Yes the xx that has won the last few baja's has had a stock motor. Even Dirtwheels admitted it lol
no it was ported and hade a mild cam. they used stock piston.

tayyo789
05-18-2010, 03:40 PM
Originally posted by 700xxmaniac
no it was ported and hade a mild cam. they used stock piston.

thats pretty much still stock

09RappySe
05-18-2010, 05:41 PM
Originally posted by tayyo789
thats pretty much still stock

???

Is that anything like pretty much not being pregnant?

its either stock or its not.

skier207
05-18-2010, 08:59 PM
Originally posted by 09RappySe
???

Is that anything like pretty much not being pregnant?

its either stock or its not.

I would have to agree. Anything more than bolt on stuff, like an exhaust, or open air filter is a modified engine. Not stock.
In fact even an open exhaust or air filter could be considered a mod although they are not generally .

700xxmaniac
05-19-2010, 10:44 AM
what he means is that is isnt much. unlike the ltr450 that came in 3rd hade a high comp piston stage 3 web cam. major porting oversise vavles, spacial valve spring, and a bored tb.


fyi the trx700xx was the lightest build to ever win the baja 250, 500, and 1000

OutlawBill
05-19-2010, 11:29 AM
Originally posted by 700xxmaniac
what he means is that is isnt much. unlike the ltr450 that came in 3rd hade a high comp piston stage 3 web cam. major porting oversise vavles, spacial valve spring, and a bored tb.


fyi the trx700xx was the lightest build to ever win the baja 250, 500, and 1000

Matlock Racing did upgrade the clutch and sells a kit for the 700xx