Beaver County PA....anyone know detailed info about Obama and the gun?

[Pappy]

Seems its being reported that the PA State Police may have violated a mans rights for being in a public place with his legally carried sidearm.....

Just interested to know if anyone from that area had some personal info on the happenings!

[LTandRaptorider]

I too would be interested in hearing this story, as I have not heard anything. If it did happen, could be his weapon somehow became visible? A concealed carry license is just that, concealed. Summer poses some problems for carrying, my small frame .40 is my summer weapon, .45 in the winter when wearing more clothes. ;)

A friend of mine long time ago got put up against a wall when unknown to him, his small of back holster became visible. After showing his license, the cops stood down. But told him to make sure it is concealed at all times. But those were different times... Today the police reaction might be a little different.

[Pappy]

PA is an Open Carry state, except for Philly and certain Gov't buildings/schools etc.

From what Ive read, he was in a legal area to carry, was not illegally displaying his sidearm, was acting in a normal fashion and was in an area that was not subject to any security involving Obama who was scheduled to speak in the ajoining park later that evening.

Someone notified Police that a man was wearing a gun, they approached him, took him into custody, then arrested him. The SS (secret service) interviewed him, found him as no threat and did not press charges. The State Police have charged him with 2 counts of lessor charges.

The man was detained and arrested for breaking no state law.

[reptikes]

Originally posted by Pappy


Someone notified Police that a man was wearing a gun, they approached him, took him into custody, then arrested him.

Obviously for someone to see that he had a gun, he wasn't concealing it to good.;)

[Pappy]

Originally posted by reptikes
Obviously for someone to see that he had a gun, he wasn't concealing it to good.;)

Open Carry You can legally carry a handgun openly, if you conceal it, you need a permit in the state of PA. he was breaking no laws!

[Outlaw 50]

This is what I found concerning the situation:

http://pittsburghlive.com/x/tribunereview/news/breaking/s_585805.html


Also It looks like the people of Pa might be a little conflicted come election day since there is a strong union presence and a large number hunters among them...

http://www.politickerpa.com/editorpa/300/pagop-obama-s-views-gun-control-undermine-our-2nd-amendment-rights

[reptikes]

In Pennsylvania, persons 18 years of age and older whom are not prohibited by
law from owning firearms may openly carry a handgun
in plain sight with no license except in vehicles*, cities of
the first class** (Philadelphia) and where prohibited specifically
by statute.


:eek2: :eek2:

[Pappy]

Originally posted by reptikes
In Pennsylvania, persons 18 years of age and older whom are not prohibited by
law from owning firearms may openly carry a handgun
in plain sight with no license except in vehicles*, cities of
the first class** (Philadelphia) and where prohibited specifically
by statute.


:eek2: :eek2:

Does this alarm you?

http://paopencarry.org/info.html

[reptikes]

Originally posted by Outlaw 50
This is what I found concerning the situation:

http://pittsburghlive.com/x/tribunereview/news/breaking/s_585805.html


Also It looks like the people of Pa might be a little conflicted come election day since there is a strong union presence and a large number hunters among them...

http://www.politickerpa.com/editorpa/300/pagop-obama-s-views-gun-control-undermine-our-2nd-amendment-rights


He was completely in his rights it sounds like, but it also sounds like he was asking for trouble. Of all the places and all the times, why pick the time and day of a rally of that statue? He's 50 years old, he should have used common sense and picked a different spot or different day.

[reptikes]

Originally posted by Pappy
Does this alarm you?

http://paopencarry.org/info.html

Yes

[Pappy]

He was 100% within the law.....

And why does this alarm you?

[reptikes]

Originally posted by Pappy
He was 100% within the law.....

And why does this alarm you?

Because, i have kids and they don't need to see some guy carring an open gun around a park or something.

[Pappy]

Originally posted by reptikes
Because, i have kids and they don't need to see some guy carring an open gun around a park or something.

So a law abiding citizen exercising their 100% lawfull right worrys you. Are your children scared of the police as well? (I fully understand where your coming from, just trying to educate myself on the issue from a different perspective)

How do you feel about a criminal illegally carrying a weapon in the park, is that ok as long as its concealed so they dont see it?Trust me, they are there.

What about a legal concealed carry, are you ok with that?

that sucks he wasnt doing anything wrong. if obama is president its going to be like no guns within a 5 mile radius from obama because no matter what there is going to be someone out to get him.

[reptikes]

Originally posted by Pappy
So a law abiding citizen exercising their 100% lawfull right worrys you. Are your children scared of the police as well? (I fully understand where your coming from, just trying to educate myself on the issue from a different perspective)

How do you feel about a criminal illegally carrying a weapon in the park, is that ok as long as its concealed so they dont see it?Trust me, they are there.

What about a legal concealed carry, are you ok with that?

I have 5 felonies, so there for i might be who you refer to as a criminal. Do i feel ok with a criminal carring a firearm as long as its concealed, NO. I used to carry a gun when i hustled, No matter how i felt about it at the time it was wrong.

Open carry can make people nervous.

[reptikes]

And yes im very much for Concealed Weapons. As soon as i can, i'm having my fiance get a couple.

[Pappy]

Originally posted by reptikes
I have 5 felonies, so there for i might be who you refer to as a criminal. Do i feel ok with a criminal carring a firearm as long as its concealed, NO. I used to carry a gun when i hustled, No matter how i felt about it at the time it was wrong.

Open carry can make people nervous.

So does freedom of speech in some circles, but we dont restrain that like we do the 2nd Amendment!


Im glad you hopefully have changed your ways and are now concerned for your childs safety, im interested in the felon who isnt worried with anyones safety and will put my trust in law abiding citizens to exercise their rights to let felons know we wont be an easy target.

I am also glad an admitted felon is nervous about law abiding citizens who carry.

[reptikes]

Originally posted by Pappy
So does freedom of speech in some circles, but we dont restrain that like we do the 2nd Amendment!


Im glad you hopefully have changed your ways and are now concerned for your childs safety, im interested in the felon who isnt worried with anyones safety and will put my trust in law abiding citizens to exercise their rights to let felons know we wont be an easy target.

I am also glad an admitted felon is nervous about law abiding citizens who carry.

I've lived and walked on the other side of the fence Pappy. I seen first hand what guns in the wrong hands can do (to many times). People are capable of cruel and insane acts. I wouldn't be as nervous if i could legally carry!

[Pappy]

Originally posted by reptikes
I've lived and walked on the other side of the fence Pappy. I seen first hand what guns in the wrong hands can do (to many times). People are capable of cruel and insane acts.

Amen, more reason to properly train and arm our citizens.

[ALAMX37]

2nd, I to come from the other side, I have seen what can be done. Now I walk to a different tune and believe everyone who is capable should be trained and armed. Criminals target who they believe to be weak and or easy targets. If they know you carry a weapon they are not going to mess with you, unless you have initiated some type of problem. Crime rates would plummet if everytime a criminal attempted a robbery they were given a instant pass to hell.

[SpeedBump]

AMEN to more guns in responsible hands. Hope the man has little or no problems getting this injustice corrected. BTW, I'm SURE he went there to get the most bang for the buck, so to speak. Asking him to do his little "info campaign" on a different day and/or different location would be like asking Obama to do his speech in an abandoned warehouse with NOBODY around to hear it. What good would that do? If you are gonna try to get your message out, you gotta do it when you will get the most attention and the most publicity, which he did. Good job.

[Rastus]

Just more sheeple freaking out at seeing a gun, I guess. :ermm:

Around my parts, it's just common place. But, I guess when the media is always shouting "Gun=BAD!" then you will have those kind of reactions.

[Pappy]

Ironically enough, he stated this was the first time he had ever attempted handing out fliers, and at the time of his arrest he hadnt even begun to hand them out.

Now if you read around the net, people are going two ways with this....

1) He was there to cause a scene and get attention
(, from his friends accounts, this is the way the man has ran his life and open legal carry was an everyday occurance for over 20 years. He is a life long 2nd Amendment supporter and to do anything above the law wasnt in his nature)

2) He was within his lawful right to carry openly and thats that.
( knowing there was such a big security issue in the vacinity, some forthought as to when to exercise that right may have prevented the issue)

I do believe that when the feds stated they were not charging him, the state should have followed suit. Seeing that they did make the arrest, and have filed charges, they have now up'd the stakes of the situation to a point where he has what appears to be a valid violation of his civil rights. No matter what we may or may not assume were his motives, the fact is he did not break the law. Should be interesting to see where it goes from here.

[monte433]

Check this link out http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=6&t=507483&page=1 read all 93 pages although I think this guy brought alot of this on himself it was amazing to me what the ATF and fed. courts did to limit his defence, if you think their is justice in this country you are wrong.

[Rastus]

Cool, someone else that is around Arfcom. :)

[Pappy]

If only he would have killed the punk

http://www.poconorecord.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080828/NEWS/80828002

[Pappy]

Originally posted by monte433
Check this link out http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=6&t=507483&page=1 read all 93 pages although I think this guy brought alot of this on himself it was amazing to me what the ATF and fed. courts did to limit his defence, if you think their is justice in this country you are wrong.

You dont know how close that story comes to one of my own.

I had a very close friend that was under investigation for turning semi-auto weapons into full auto and selling drugs(at the time, I had no idea as he knew if I found out I would have busted him myself) Anyway, during(ironic uh) a labor day dove hunt, we broke out our AR's and started shooting (we were on a private farm) My AR started throwing out bursts due to a worn part. Although it was cool, I stopped shooting out of fear of further damage. My friend offered to tear it apart and fix it and I agreed. What I did not know is that this all took place infront of an undercover that was investigation him.

A month or so later I got a call that it was repaired and would now do something special. I knew what that was and told him I did not want the weapon, it was his to put back teh way it was before i would accept it. The call was being recorded as the ionvestigation was ongoing. 3 months later they raided his house.

The only thing that saved my butt was the UC's knowledge of how the weapon malfunctioned and the recorded call. I was never once contacted by the ATF-thank god!

Those 93 pages sent chills up my spine, knowing how easy it was to pass a firearm amongst friends and how much trouble I could have been in over a malfunctioning weapon if I had chosen not to allow my friend to fix it. He did 10 years for his stupidity.

[monte433]

You would proably be doing 30 months in club fed if that happend now:(

[Pappy]

Originally posted by monte433
You would proably be doing 30 months in club fed if that happend now:(

Quite possibly

But I do agree, I think Olsen hurt himself by the choices he made, which is usually the case when things go bad for folks. With having a personal insight as to how one can hide the truth from you even when you considered them a close friend was an awakening to me. Olsens story has been spun in a few different directions and even with better legal counsel, the story shifted slightly again. It still fails down to how the system abused the law and lack there of wether you buy his account or not and is a very scary deal for all americans wether they own or support firearms or not.

93 pages was alot of reading, and damn hard to follow:p

[monte433]

Even if he is telling a lie, it was never proven beyond reasonable doubt just how or even who modified his weapon, if I was on that jury there is no way I could convict a man on the evidence as I have seen it. :ermm:

[Pappy]

I agree, I dont think I could have found him guilty either

[54warrior]

In the Trib article, I like the last quote


Asked if it was wise to carry a gun near the Obama event, Noble said: "His rights don't trump mine."


Because he is exactly right!!!

[Pappy]

Well, nearly a week later and they have finally brought charges to the man. Ofcourse the media left out a few important details in this story:

http://thetimesnewsnow.com/2008/09/05/police-gunman-intended-to-disrupt-obama-rally/

It also appears that his words on a popular internet open carry forum are being used to bolster the claim he went there to cause a scene. I reckon people might outta think twice before saying to many outlandish things on the net, even if they arent outlandish:rolleyes: :ermm:

[chris46250r]

He still broke no laws. He didnt make a threat and he was leagal with his gun.

[Pappy]

Originally posted by chris46250r
He still broke no laws. He didnt make a threat and he was leagal with his gun.

I agree, however I think by them using his internet post in the charges as evidence, that they will try and form the case based around intent. Its still no different then someone peacefully excersing other rights, and he was not in any area that was void of the standard open carry law. I would imagine the popo will try and state he was in a secure area or attempting to gain access to a secure area, which should be proved false without any worry.