McCain picks VP

[Pappy]

By LIZ SIDOTI, Associated Press Writer




DENVER - John McCain tapped little-known Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin to be his vice presidential running mate on Friday in a startling selection on the eve of the Republican National Convention.

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Two senior campaign officials disclosed McCain's decision a few hours before the Republican presidential nominee-to-be and his newly-minted running mate appeared at a rally in swing-state Ohio.

Palin, like McCain, is a conservative with a maverick streak who has shown a willingness to clash with others in her own party. A self-styled hockey mom and political reformer, she has been governor of her state less than two years.

Palin's selection shocked numerous Republican officials.

At 44, Palin is a generation younger that Sen. Joseph Biden of Delaware, who is Barack Obama's running mate on the Democratic ticket.

She is three years Obama's junior, as well — and McCain has made much in recent weeks of Obama's relative lack of experience in foreign policy and defense matters.

In making his pick, McCain passed over several more prominent prospects who had figured in speculation for months — Minnesota Gov. Tim Pawlenty, former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney and former Pennsylvania Gov. Tom Ridge among them.

Palin flew overnight to an airport in Ohio near Dayton, and even as she awaited her formal introduction, some aides said they had believed she was at home in Alaska.

She is a former mayor of Wasilla who became governor of her state in December, 2006 after ousting a governor of her own party in a primary and then dispatching a former governor in the general election.

More recently, she has come under the scrutiny of an investigation by the Republican-controlled legislature into the possibility that she ordered the dismissal of Alaska's public safety commissioner because he would not fire her former brother-in-law as a state trooper.

The timing of McCain's selection appeared designed to limit any political gain Obama yields from his own convention, which ended Thursday night with his nominating acceptance speech before an estimated 84,000 in Invesco Field in Colorado.

Public opinion polls show a close race between Obama and McCain, and with scarcely two months remaining until the election, neither contender can allow the other to jump out to a big post-convention lead.

McCain has had months to consider his choice, and has made it clear to reporters that one of his overriding goals was to avoid a situation like the one in 1988, when Dan Quayle was thrown into a national campaign with little preparation.

Palin has a long history of run-ins with the Alaska GOP hierarchy, giving her genuine maverick status and reformer credentials that could complement McCain's image.

Two years ago, she ousted the state's Republican incumbent governor, Frank Murkowski in the primary, despite having little money and little establishment backing.

She has also distanced herself from two senior Republican office-holders, sen. Ted Stevens and Rep. Don young. Both men are under federal corruption investigations.

She had earned stripes — and enmity — after Murkowski made her head of the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission. From that post, she exposed ethical violations by the state GOP chairman, also a fellow commissioner.

She and her husband Todd Palin, have five children. The latest, a baby, was born with Down syndrome.

[Off-Road Maniac]

Interesting Choice.

But regardless if you want to keep your ATV rideing areas open you better get behind them....................

[quadracer707]

Poor Hillary!!! I bet she is going NUTS:devil: :devil:


This should make things very interesting.

Ken

[bwamos]

Husband was a 2-time 2000 mile Snowmobile Race champion. ;)

I like the pick. She's got gumption. Not afraid to do what is right. Ousted her own party members who were corrupt.

I can see it already. Barrak campaign will try to say she doesn't have enough experience.. yet she has more executive experience than he does.

Her husband works for BP. So you KNOW they are going to bring that up. (conflict of intrest) Of course he's a seasonal working class grunt w/o corporate pull.. but they won't say that.. lol.

Didn't know who she was before yesterday, but with my quick research on her, I really do like the pick.

[450raider]

Party at Mccains!!! yeah i like it, i was kinda hoping for romney but this really is just as good if not better, now lets see if the good guys can win one..... If i was a betting man (which i am) id bet yes, Mccain '08

"(NOT a W&P thread)McCain's VP choice ... Sarah Palin is a MILFFF"


thats the thread title in a car forum i'm on:o

[ridered11]

http://images.teamsugar.com/files/upl1/10/104169/16_2008/palin.jpg

[Mxjunkie]

lol another little tad bit of information about her I found.

Palin (McCain's VP choice) doesn't support legalizing marijuana, worrying about the message it would send to her four kids. But when it comes to cracking down on drugs, she says methamphetamines are the greater threat and should have a higher priority. Palin said she has smoked marijuana -- remember, it was legal under state law, she said, even if illegal under U.S. law -- but says she didn't like it and doesn't smoke it now.




We must have another Bill Clinton :blah:

[Pappy]

3 General Category / General Discussion / Re: McCain picks VP running mate on: Today at 06:12:37 PM
Started by bigursus - Last post by Troutfisher
She is also a life member of NRA.

10 Things You Didn't Know About Sarah Palin
Posted August 29, 2008
1. Sarah Louise Palin (nee Heath) was born Feb., 1964, in Sandpoint, Idaho. Her family moved to Alaska when Sarah was an infant. Her father, Chuck, is a retired schoolteacher.

2. She attended Wasilla High School where she played point guard on the state champion basketball team. Her nickname was "Sarah Barracuda."

3. Palin graduated in 1987 from the University of Idaho with a degree in journalism. She worked briefly as a sports reporter in Anchorage.

4. She refers to her husband, Todd, as the "First Dude." He's worked as a commercial fisherman and as a production operator on the North Slope for BP. He enjoys snowmobiling and has won the Tesoro Iron Dog, billed as the world's longest snowmobile race, four times.

5. Palin and her husband have five children, Bristol, Piper, Track, Willow, and Trig. Trig, born in 2008, has been diagnosed with Down syndrome. Her son Track joined the army in 2007.

6. Her favorite meal is moose stew.

7. She comes from a family of outdoor enthusiasts. Her parents, Chuck and Sally Heath, enjoy hunting and fishing, and have both completed marathons.

8. Palin was named Miss Wasilla in 1984 and was a runner-up for Miss Alaska. In 1996 she was elected mayor of Wasilla.

9. She's a lifetime NRA member and enjoys hunting, fishing, and snowmobiling.

10. Elected in 2006, she's Alaska's first female governor and the youngest governor elected in the state.

[Pappy]

Hell, im liking her more then McCain:eek2:

[<DRS>GPF]

what you havent heard yet, she's for opening up ANWR even though theres hundreds of capped wells.

her husband is directly tied to big oil.

she's also been an advocate of removing species from the endangered list.

remember the bridge to nowhere? thatd be her too..

try not to be fooled by her looks, she's effectively what is wrong with our government.


oh and in case youre wondering..

[jrspawn]

I think McCain made a great choice(from what ive seen and heard so far at least). I was waiting for someone to make the classic "id hit it" comment too, thats classic:D

F obama.

Thank you
Justin

[Hyperwarrior22]

obama in 08

progress

dont forget it

[Hyperwarrior22]

thats messed up post 666 sorry broskis

[jrspawn]

Originally posted by Hyperwarrior22
thats messed up post 666 sorry broskis

Man, you beat me to it, lol.

I was getting ready to say, Look he IS the antichrist. Post 666!!!!!!! Just kidding with ya:D

To each their own though i guess.

Justin

[Mxjunkie]

Who has bets she'll end up with a stained dress after a few months in office? :devil: :chinese:

[Hondamaster5505]

I like his pick. She's exactly what this country needs, and I actually wish she was president, not McCain.

At the democratic convention, all they did was basically say america sucked, that people can't afford things and can barely survive, and talking about empty chairs at the table. Then they thing by taxing the oblivion out of the people, that will solve all their problems. The dems are all about taking money for themselves, taking money from the middle class and providing to the scum that are too lazy to work.

At the democratic convention, she made good points. She put spirit in everyone and got everyone cheering "USA!" making them believe in their country. She's for lowering taxes, and giving the government less power. She's almost like a female ronald regan.

I dont trust any politician, but shes the most down to earth.

[450raider]

Originally posted by Hondamaster5505
At the democratic convention, all they did was basically say america sucked, that people can't afford things and can barely survive, and talking about empty chairs at the table. Then they thing by taxing the oblivion out of the people, that will solve all their problems. The dems are all about taking money for themselves, taking money from the middle class and providing to the scum that are too lazy to work.

exactly, same old crap theyve been praising the whole time

sodama: change, change. (said in the tone of the homless episode of south park lol)
crowd: but what kind of change?
sodama: uhhhhhhhh.......uhhhhhh...... whatever bush hates.....you know, change.
crowd: oh....... (hold for 7 min. applause).

there i just spoiled the dmc for whoever missed it... thank me later

[Hondamaster5505]

Originally posted by 450raider
exactly, same old crap theyve been praising the whole time

sodama: change, change. (said in the tone of the homless episode of south park lol)
crowd: but what kind of change?
sodama: uhhhhhhhh.......uhhhhhh...... whatever bush hates.....you know, change.
crowd: oh....... (hold for 7 min. applause).

there i just spoiled the dmc for whoever missed it... thank me later

haha.

Now he says he will say what change once hes elected? whats that crap about.

I wish I was in hilarys room right now, sarah stole her thunder, and looks much better:devil:

[Quad18star]

She seems like a family person with probbaly some good intentions , but it seems she's gotten herself into some hot water lately.

Quick google search of her name turned up that she's being investigated for Abuse of Power over the firing of a Police Chief that wouldn't fire a trooper that was going through a nasty custody and divorce with her sister. Hrrmmm.

Also seems as though she's a supporter of aerial hunting of large game ( moose, bear, elk) ... which by any real hunter's standard is NOT hunting ... and IMO unethical.

She wants to remove animals from the endagered species list ... one of which includes the Polar Bear ... which has been proven by independant studies , some of which include top ranking Universities, as being an animal that is critically close to being extinct forever.


On the bright side .... I think I've seen her in a dirty movie once. :devil:

[reptikes]

Originally posted by Hondamaster5505
I like his pick. She's exactly what this country needs, and I actually wish she was president, not McCain.

At the democratic convention, all they did was basically say america sucked, that people can't afford things and can barely survive, and talking about empty chairs at the table. Then they thing by taxing the oblivion out of the people, that will solve all their problems. The dems are all about taking money for themselves, taking money from the middle class and providing to the scum that are too lazy to work.



You obviously didn't watch it or understand anything they were saying. Know what you are talking about before you post you seem to always make yourself look like a complete idiot! Keep up the good work.

[reptikes]

Originally posted by 450raider
exactly, same old crap theyve been praising the whole time

sodama: change, change. (said in the tone of the homless episode of south park lol)
crowd: but what kind of change?
sodama: uhhhhhhhh.......uhhhhhh...... whatever bush hates.....you know, change.
crowd: oh....... (hold for 7 min. applause).

there i just spoiled the dmc for whoever missed it... thank me later

You and Hondamaster5505 should have a sleep over and post together.:D

[BludgerDB]

McCain just undermined the only legitimate argument he had and the only talking point that was giving him traction in the 3 states this election is coming down to - PA, FL, and OH.

He didn't need to energize his base, he needed to keep scaring the independents into thinking Obama was too inexperienced to be President.

Palin, arguably, has less experience than Obama and she's a 72-year-old-with-cancer heartbeat away....

[Cron]

She has more experience than obama thats the sad part! Obama has been i congress 140 working days and has not lent his name to one substantial foreign policy subcommitee! Palin on the other hand has a record showing decisive decision making unlike Obama.

[Hondamaster5505]

Originally posted by BludgerDB
McCain just undermined the only legitimate argument he had and the only talking point that was giving him traction in the 3 states this election is coming down to - PA, FL, and OH.

He didn't need to energize his base, he needed to keep scaring the independents into thinking Obama was too inexperienced to be President.

Palin, arguably, has less experience than Obama and she's a 72-year-old-with-cancer heartbeat away....

Obama was a senator for 147 days:huh so how is he more experienced?

moron..

[Outlaw 50]

Originally posted by <DRS>GPF
what you havent heard yet, she's for opening up ANWR even though theres hundreds of capped wells.

And the problem with that is???


Originally posted by <DRS>GPF her husband is directly tied to big oil.

Yeah, he works for BP and is a member of the United Steelworkers Union!


Originally posted by <DRS>GPF she's also been an advocate of removing species from the endangered list.

Uh-huh, she wants to remove the polar bear from the threatened list so it doesn't impact oil exploration...


Originally posted by <DRS>GPF remember the bridge to nowhere? thatd be her too..

Sarah would be the one who told Washington that they didn't need the bridge so they could keep the money..


Originally posted by <DRS>GPF try not to be fooled by her looks, she's effectively what is wrong with our government.

Huh.........it seems to me that she is what we need to fix Washington and she does look good also!

[BludgerDB]

She's been a governor of a state with a total population less than the city of Columbus, OH for less than 2 years and before that, a mayor of a town of 8,000.

147 days? Obama was sworn in as an IL senator on January 4, 2005. He was a state senator for 8 years before that.

The point is, compared to McCain and Biden, neither have near as much national government "experience". McCain could have picked any number of older, conservative governors or senators and kept pounding Obama on that point.

[reptikes]

Originally posted by Outlaw 50
And the problem with that is???



Yeah, he works for BP and is a member of the United Steelworkers Union!



Uh-huh, she wants to remove the polar bear from the threatened list so it doesn't impact oil exploration...



Sarah would be the one who told Washington that they didn't need the bridge so they could keep the money..



Huh.........it seems to me that she is what we need to fix Washington and she does look good also!


Please, go back and look what you typed........ I'll give you a minute, go ahead............. I see KILL OFF POLAR BEARS IN THE WILD = MORE OIL so she decides its ok to kill them. And that because her husband is in the United Steel Workers Union it doesn't matter that he's in bed with the oil companys?

WOW.

[Cron]

Obama is NOT MORE experienced than Palin. Palin has executive experience and is in charge of the Alaska Coast guard (military). Any Obama supporter who tries to pull the experience card on Palin is a hippocrit, look at your own candidates lack of a resume

Obama has done nothing in the Senate but run for President, how is that experience? Obama has NO experience governing anything, he has never even governed over any of the committees he chairs.

McCain did not undercut is charge of inexperience towards Obama. McCain is experienced, Obama is not. Palin is not running for President, her "experience" is not going to be running the most powerful country in the world, unike Obama, who lacks experience and will be in complete charge.

Palin governs over the same population as Delaware. Palin is not on the top of the ticket like Obama is. I am far more concerned with electing an inexperienced radical to power than electing someone who is taking a back seat.

How do you get foreign policy experience as a governor? Name a governor who has entered the White House as President with foreign policy experience? The duties of governor do not entail anything with foreign policy.

This will be great experience for her though to run in 2016!

As far as people who are concerned about the Polar Bear, hold your breath, CO2 from breathing and speaking is melting their habitat...:rolleyes:

"As a result of these efforts, polar bears are more numerous now than they were 40 years ago. The polar bear population in the southern Beaufort Sea off Alaska’s North Slope has been relatively stable for 20 years, according to a federal analysis."

http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/commentaries_essays/bearing_up.html

[Hondamaster5505]

Originally posted by Cron
Obama is NOT MORE experienced than Palin. Palin has executive experience and is in charge of the Alaska Coast guard (military). Any Obama supporter who tries to pull the experience card on Palin is a hippocrit, look at your own candidates lack of a resume

Obama has done nothing in the Senate but run for President, how is that experience? Obama has NO experience governing anything, he has never even governed over any of the committees he chairs.

McCain did not undercut is charge of inexperience towards Obama. McCain is experienced, Obama is not. Palin is not running for President, her "experience" is not going to be running the most powerful country in the world, unike Obama, who lacks experience and will be in complete charge.

Palin governs over the same population as Delaware. Palin is not on the top of the ticket like Obama is. I am far more concerned with electing an inexperienced radical to power than electing someone who is taking a back seat.

How do you get foreign policy experience as a governor? Name a governor who has entered the White House as President with foreign policy experience? The duties of governor do not entail anything with foreign policy.

This will be great experience for her though to run in 2016!

As far as people who are concerned about the Polar Bear, hold your breath, CO2 from breathing and speaking is melting their habitat...:rolleyes:

"As a result of these efforts, polar bears are more numerous now than they were 40 years ago. The polar bear population in the southern Beaufort Sea off Alaska’s North Slope has been relatively stable for 20 years, according to a federal analysis."

http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/commentaries_essays/bearing_up.html

well said brotha:cool:

[Outlaw 50]

Originally posted by reptikes
Please, go back and look what you typed........ I'll give you a minute, go ahead............. I see KILL OFF POLAR BEARS IN THE WILD = MORE OIL so she decides its ok to kill them. And that because her husband is in the United Steel Workers Union it doesn't matter that he's in bed with the oil companys?

WOW.

Let me get this straight.............you ride atvs/dirt bikes and burn gasoline for recreation and you want to lecture me about what is good for the planet/wildlife.......http://i29.tinypic.com/2cej2p2.jpg


"I see KILL OFF POLAR BEARS IN THE WILD = MORE OIL so she decides its ok to kill them. "

Yeah, I said it is a good thing to take the Polar Bears off the threatened list.........Do a little research and you will find out that since the 1980s the Polar Bear population has gone up by five times what it was...Oil is the fuel of our economy's engine so it definitely gets priority over some bears...

As far as Todd working for BP, since when is having a job and supporting your family a bad thing..?

So since I drive a truck and pick up trash does that mean I'm in bed with "Big Trash"....http://i32.tinypic.com/34y360z.gif

[Pappy]

Id love a Polar bear rug for my den....let me know if I need to head to Alaska:devil:

[Outlaw 50]

Also for those who want to discuss the "alleged" indiscretion about the state trooper:

Governor to Turn Over Findings
from Department of Law

No. 08-141

August 13, 2008, Anchorage, Alaska – Governor Sarah Palin today announced she will turn over findings of an inquiry by the Alaska Department of Law regarding the termination of former Public Safety Commissioner Walt Monegan. The findings were made available to Steve Branchflower, a retired state prosecutor, who was selected earlier this month by the Legislative Council to investigate the termination of the former commissioner and allegations it might have been related to Monegan’s refusal to fire State Trooper Mike Wooten, the Governor’s former brother-in-law.

Immediately following the Legislative Council’s move to hire Branchflower, Attorney General Talis Colberg ordered the preservation of all state documents that might be relevant to the investigation. The Department of Law has conducted informal interviews with staff from the Department of Public Safety and the Office of the Governor. Branchflower has requested that interview notes and tapes resulting from the meetings be delivered to his office.

Governor Palin this afternoon released a recording of a telephone conversation between Boards and Commissions Director Frank Bailey and an Alaska State Trooper from Ketchikan. The recording shows Bailey acted inappropriately by suggesting that he was speaking for the Governor and the First Gentleman.

“I am truly disappointed and disturbed to learn that a member of this administration contacted the Department of Public Safety regarding Trooper Wooten,” Governor Palin said. “At no time did I authorize any member of my staff to do so.”

“It is apparent that comments I made to a Department of Public Safety official regarding Trooper Wooten improperly and incorrectly implied that I was acting on behalf of the governor and/or her husband,” said Bailey. “That was wrong.”

“At no time did either the Governor or Todd Palin direct me, or imply that I should try to influence any employee to have Trooper Wooten fired,” Bailey added. “In fact, with the exception of the briefing with the Governor’s security detail immediately after the election, I have never discussed Wooten with the Governor.”

Governor Palin has directed all of her staff to cooperate fully with Branchflower.

A copy of the recording can be found at:

http://www.gov.state.ak.us/audio/FrankBaileyCDaudio.mp3

[Cron]

Originally posted by BludgerDB


147 days? Obama was sworn in as an IL senator on January 4, 2005. He was a state senator for 8 years before that.



That is the point, he has been in office for almost three years; yet only been present, or in other words at work in the Senate chambers for 147 days out of those three years (975 days), of those 147 days, no "change" legislation with his name on it, unless hundreds of millions of dollars in pork is considered viable legislation and the type of politics that has never been done before. I am from IL, he sure did not change anything here. We are 2.5 billion in the hole and you need to know a few Chicago thugs to even get into politics.

I wish I could earn 6 figures and have platinum health care while only having to show up to work 20% of the time.

[mx3mom]

Originally posted by Cron


I wish I could earn 6 figures and have platinum health care while only having to show up to work 20% of the time.


Now thats the "CHANGE" I'm looking for.:D

[Pappy]

Well, when he does work, seems he shows his feelings about firearms and the 2nd amendment



The presidential primary season is finally over, and it is now time for gun owners to take a careful look at just where apparent nominee Barack Obama stands on issues related to the Second Amendment. During the primaries, Obama tried to hide behind vague statements of support for “sportsmen” or unfounded claims of general support for the right to keep and bear arms.


Print PDF version

But his real record, based on votes taken, political associations, and long standing positions, shows that Barack Obama is a serious threat to Second Amendment liberties. Don’t listen to his campaign rhetoric! Look instead to what he has said and done during his entire political career.



FACT: Barack Obama voted to allow reckless lawsuits designed to bankrupt the firearms industry.1

FACT: Barack Obama wants to re-impose the failed and discredited Clinton Gun Ban.15

FACT: Barack Obama voted to ban almost all rifle ammunition commonly used for hunting and sport shooting.3

FACT: Barack Obama has endorsed a complete ban on handgun ownership.2

FACT: Barack Obama supports local gun bans in Chicago, Washington, D.C., and other cities.4

FACT: Barack Obama voted to uphold local gun bans and the criminal prosecution of people who use firearms in self-defense.5

FACT: Barack Obama supports gun owner licensing and gun registration.6

FACT: Barack Obama refused to sign a friend-of-the-court Brief in support of individual Second Amendment rights in the Heller case.

FACT: Barack Obama opposes Right to Carry laws.7

FACT: Barack Obama was a member of the Board of Directors of the Joyce Foundation, the leading source of funds for anti-gun organizations and “research.”8

FACT: Barack Obama supported a proposal to ban gun stores within 5 miles of a school or park, which would eliminate almost every gun store in America.9

FACT: Barack Obama voted not to notify gun owners when the state of Illinois did records searches on them.10

FACT: Barack Obama voted against a measure to lower the Firearms Owners Identification card age minimum from 21 to 18, a measure designed to assist young people in the military.11

FACT: Barack Obama favors a ban on standard capacity magazines.12

FACT: Barack Obama supports mandatory micro-stamping.13

FACT: Barack Obama supports mandatory waiting periods.2

FACT: Barack Obama supports repeal of the Tiahrt Amendment, which prohibits information on gun traces collected by the BATFE from being used in reckless lawsuits against firearm dealers and manufacturers.14

FACT: Barack Obama supports one-gun-a-month sales restrictions.9

FACT: Barack Obama supports a ban on inexpensive handguns.9

FACT: Barack Obama supports a ban on the resale of police issued firearms, even if the money is going to police departments for replacement equipment.9

FACT: Barack Obama supports mandatory firearm training requirements for all gun owners and a ban on gun ownership for persons under the age of 21.9


1. United States Senate, S. 397, vote number 219, July 29, 2005. (U.S. Senate: Legislation & Records Home > Votes > Roll Call Vote)

2. Independent Voters of Illinois/Independent Precinct Organization general candidate questionnaire, Sept. 9, 1996. The responses on this survey were described in “Obama had greater role on liberal survey,” Politico, March 31, 2008. (Obama had greater role on liberal survey - Kenneth P. Vogel - Politico.com)

3. United States Senate, S. 397, vote number 217, Kennedy amendment July 29, 2005. (U.S. Senate: Legislation & Records Home > Votes > Roll Call Vote)

4. David Wright, Ursula Fahy and Sunlen Miller, "Obama: 'Common Sense Regulation' On Gun Owners' Rights," ABC News' "Political Radar" Blog, Political Punch, 2/15/08. (Political Radar: Obama: 'Common Sense Regulation' on Gun Owners' Rights)

5. Illinois Senate, March 25, 2004 SB 2165, vote 20.

6. In the Illinois Senate, Obama sponsored SB-1136, which would have amended Illinois licensing laws by increasing the requirements for the Illinois Firearm Owners Identification card. When asked about registration during the Nevada Democratic debate on January 17, 2008, Obama did not oppose it, but simply stated, “I don’t think that we can get that done.” (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/15/us...pagewanted=all)

7. “Candidates' gun control positions may figure in Pa. vote,” Pittsburgh Tribune-Review, Wednesday, April 2, 2008, and "Keyes, Obama Are Far Apart On Guns," Chicago Tribune, 9/15/04. (Candidates' gun control positions may figure in Pa. vote - Pittsburgh Tribune-Review)

8. 1998 Joyce Foundation Annual Report, p. 7.

9. “Obama and Gun Control,” The Volokh Conspiracy, taken from the Chicago Defender, Dec. 13, 1999. (The Volokh Conspiracy - Obama and Gun Control:)

10. Illinois Senate, May 5, 2002, SB 1936 Con., vote 26.

11. Illinois Senate, March 25, 2003, SB 2163, vote 18.

12. “Clinton, Edwards, Obama on gun control,” Radio Iowa, Sunday, April 22, 2007. (Radio Iowa: Clinton, Edwards, Obama on gun control)

13. Chicago Tribune blogs, “Barack Obama: NIU Shootings call for action,” February 15, 2008, (The Swamp: Barack Obama: NIU shootings call for action)

14. Barack Obama campaign website: “As president, Barack Obama would repeal the Tiahrt Amendment . . .” (Barack Obama | Change We Can Believe In | UrbanPolicy.)

15. Illinois Senate Debate #3: Barack Obama vs. Alan Keyes (Barack Obama on Gun Control and Illinois Senate Debate #3: Barack Obama vs. Alan Keyes) Oct 21, 2004

[kawiefan]

Just for the record any of you voting liberal are voting to close down our riding areas. Think about that when you vote.

[<DRS>GPF]

real comparable, undisputed facts:
http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/110/senate/vote-missers/




as for the rhetoric being spewed to the web by the NRA(white rainbow coalition), this is a good retort from another board.



Facts?? Or embelleshments and fallacies?! I don't have time for all of these, so I'll do the first few... but come on, some of these are exaggerated mistruths.


FACT: Barack Obama voted against the confirmation of 2 of the 5 Justices that affirmed an individual right to keep and bear arms. – Do you need English interpretation skills?? He voted AGAINST the Justices who happen to support the right to bear arms.. Not BECAUSE they support the right to bear arms. More likely, he voted against them for another reason, likely they were pro-Life. That’s like saying “You voted against a man who supports and believes in Christianity… You must be a devil worshiper!!”
FACT: Barack Obama voted to allow reckless lawsuits designed to bankrupt the firearms industry.1 - Really?? To actually bankrupt the gun industry. Cigarette companies and Healthcare industries suffer from reckless lawsuits, and they are far from bankrupt. I will admit, if you are an NRA supporter this isn’t what you want.
FACT: Barack Obama wants to re-impose the failed and discredited Clinton Gun Ban.15 – Was this the ban on assault weapons?? He might have voted for it while legislator for Southside Chicago.
FACT: Barack Obama voted to ban almost all rifle ammunition commonly used for hunting and sport shooting.3 – Ban it where, on the streets of Chicago?? Within 500 yards of a school? Research people.
FACT: Barack Obama has endorsed a 500% increase in the federal excise tax on firearms and ammunition.9 – If true, that’s high. But if the current Federal Excise tax is say $10, it’d be raised to only $50 on a gun. Smokers get taxed out the ***, would the net amount be higher or lower than cigarettes or booze?
FACT: Barack Obama has endorsed a complete ban on handgun ownership.2 - Again probably in Chicago. But I admit I don’t believe an ouitright BAN should be legal. Surprised it held in DC all that time.
FACT: Barack Obama supports local gun bans in Chicago, Washington, D.C., and other cities.4 See above.
FACT: Barack Obama voted to uphold local gun bans and the criminal prosecution of people
who use firearms in self-defense.5 Isn’t this the 3rd time in a row they mentioned the same thing.
FACT: Barack Obama supports gun owner licensing and gun registration.6 - We register cars, why not guns.
FACT: Barack Obama refused to sign a friend-of-the-court Brief in support of individual Second Amendment rights in the Heller case. – I have no idea what this means & don’t want to look it up.
FACT: Barack Obama opposes Right to Carry laws.7 – Which kind, don’t you need permits & all to carry. Myb this law requested people don’t. Who knows.
FACT: Barack Obama was a member of the Board of Directors of the Joyce Foundation, the leading source of funds for anti-gun organizations and “research.”8 – Boy, these people look like all out gun banning Nazi's...


http://www.joycefdn.org/Programs/Education/

FACT: Barack Obama supported a proposal to ban gun stores within 5 miles of a school or park, which would eliminate almost every gun store in America.9 - Dude, I can drive up to the middle of Pennsylvania and be 20 miles away from a school. Plus, again, it was probably an attempted Chicago law he probably knew it’d get shot down but was hoping for a compromise, like 500 yards or something.
FACT: Barack Obama voted not to notify gun owners when the state of Illinois did records searches on them.10 - Maybe this was after a murder happened, police work to find out who nearby owns a .45 or whatever. They do that with cars you know, like when a Silver BMW hits & runs. If you get the first few letters of a license plate, they can sort thru all Silver BMW’s with those 2 letters throughout PA, then narrow it down by weeding out those who live out in Pittsburgh etc… and come down to only a few cars.
FACT: Barack Obama voted against a measure to lower the Firearms Owners Identification card age minimum from 21 to 18, a measure designed to assist young people in the military.11 – Maybe to reduce crime in Chicago.





Look I could keep going, but you get the picture. Is Obama and most dems for gun control?? Yes. Is he some ultra-outright gun banning Yankee who's gonna take away guns & arrest all rednecks & southerners who own them?? No.

Put things into context when reading them. I agree sometimes it isn't the guns which need to be controlled. It's the prison which need to be bigger. Too many times I'll see people doing only 2-3 years for armed robbery or even attempted murder or whatever. I think the emphasis should be on jail time, not gun control. So in that regard I do believe the NRA has a point. However they really turn it into extremes come election time. Where was the uproar when these bills were being proposed & put forth?? I didn't see any of you posting. Now suddenly "Oh it's the end of gun ownership in America!!"


Elections also bring out the same 3 partisan single issues:
1. Abortion
2. Gun Control
3. Flag Burning


and Gay-Marraige is fast becoming the fourth.



my point...
each side in this election will have their methods for manipulating the undecided/uneducated. dont be so small as to take any comment made by either party as a 100% fact.
do some real research and make an informed decision.

[Pappy]

Originally posted by <DRS>GPF







my point...
each side in this election will have their methods for manipulating the undecided/uneducated. dont be so small as to take any comment made by either party as a 100% fact.
do some real research and make an informed decision.

The facts are in his voting record, not what spin as to why he voted the way he did. Both sides spew rehtoric, but his vote is who he is and tells us his feelings.No excuses needed as to why

[<DRS>GPF]

Originally posted by kawiefan
Just for the record any of you voting liberal are voting to close down our riding areas. Think about that when you vote.


oh.. so the blue states that have legalized ATV riding on the roads are just anomalies?

hmm... i wonder what a comparison of red vs. blue voting states would look like if you removed the states that allow atv's on the roadways?
i honestly cant find an actual comparison nor a listing of legalized ATV states, but itd be interesting to the point of this comment.

[Pappy]

Originally posted by <DRS>GPF


as for the rhetoric being spewed to the web by the NRA(white rainbow coalition),


Ive never seen or heard anyone from the NRA call for 2nd Amendment rights for white people only. Your going down the same path as most, and it turns me away from listening:ermm:

[jrspawn]

:huh Im a little lost here. Could you explain to me what the "white rainbow coalition" is?

Thank you
Justin

[Pappy]

Originally posted by jrspawn
:huh Im a little lost here. Could you explain to me what the "white rainbow coalition" is?

Thank you
Justin

I see the resemblance now! Man was I being misled..lol

http://www.rainbowpush.org/

http://www.nra.org/

[jrspawn]

Ohhhhh. I think im getting it now. So that comment was a cheapshot comment toward white people?

[Pappy]

Originally posted by jrspawn
Ohhhhh. I think im getting it now. So that comment was a cheapshot comment toward white people?

white people that support the 2nd amendment

[<DRS>GPF]

Originally posted by Pappy
The facts are in his voting record, not what spin as to why he voted the way he did. Both sides spew rehtoric, but his vote is who he is and tells us his feelings.No excuses needed as to why

right, so I posted the link voting records of everyone, feel free to look at who voted for what.

who panders to big business and who doesnt. both are guilty, so its a question of "who's the lesser evil?"..

theres more than the ability to "pack heat" at stake here.
there's a war thats is going on in the wrong country against the wrong cavemen..
meanwhile McDraft is wrapping himself in the flag he denounced while gladly sending my friends and family to fight his parties misguided folly for oil, while using the guise of the righting the wrong by hunting down the US financed BinLaden/phantom WMD's/taliban/world peace/ etc. etc.

our economy is being sold by the companies that have bought our politicians, yet McWar still see's no fault in handing out subsidies to these same companies.

the guy stands for more of the same and will tell sheeple anything they want to hear, just to get elected.(as will any of them, of course..)
but as youve said, the voting record stands and my link is zounds more factual than some half-truthed internet scrawling the NRA police can provide.

Im still waiting for a magic videotape to appear any time now that will inspire the warmongers into voting action.


BoHo the clown certainly isnt going to save us, but I certainly dont believe Sidney McCain will do anything that doesnt pander to big oil and big business.(as his voting record shows.. when he's actually there to vote that is..)

[Pappy]

Yep, lesser of two evils is correct....and McCain will get my vote based 100% on this.

[jrspawn]

GPF, you ok over there? You sound reallly mad, like this:mad: :grr: Cheer up bud, if it make you feel better im not voting for obama. And i feel great, like this:) :D :cool:

[jrspawn]

obama=:mad: :grr:
McCain=:D :)

[<DRS>GPF]

Originally posted by jrspawn
Ohhhhh. I think im getting it now. So that comment was a cheapshot comment toward white people?


no, but let me help you since its not all that clear for the slower folk..
it was a shot at the NRA.. whom is an organization ive no love or need for.(many on that list, so dont feel that im specially picking on them)


the RC parade comes blazing to the rescue of a downtrodden black man, regardless of whether he's right or wrong..(been witness to it in Decatur IL..)

the NRA comes in blazing to the rescue to save society anytime a law which limits a persons right to buy a gun, regarless of right or wrong.(plenty of data to back this.. eg. removal of thousands of confirmed psychologically unstable vet's from federal list of names not allowed to own or purchase a firearm)

though the goals were extremely different, you have to see the parallels.

each have factual history of making decisions based on promoting their own political agendas.

whereas many times each have done the right thing, theyre just another lousy political power that uses its ability to manipulate the weak minded.

i really dont expect anyone on this board to understand, but dont base a political desicion on an extrememly one sided comment.(mine or anyone elses)

[<DRS>GPF]

Originally posted by jrspawn
GPF, you ok over there? You sound reallly mad, like this:mad: :grr: Cheer up bud, if it make you feel better im not voting for obama. And i feel great, like this:) :D :cool:


nope, no anger here... this is the "internets" and anyone who lets it get to them must have little else in their life to go on..


if it makes you feel better about youself, im not voting for either one!:blah:

[jrspawn]

Well, sorry for being a "slower folk". The sad thing is, its the people like you that resort to rediculus smart *** comments towards anyone not on obama's side, to feel even stronger about not voting for obama. You seriously need to relax man, or get some help. Taking cheap shots at others will get you no where, but i guess it makes you feel better or really powerfull maybe?




Originally posted by <DRS>GPF
no, but let me help you since its not all that clear for the slower folk..
it was a shot at the NRA.. whom is an organization ive no love or need for.(many on that list, so dont feel that im specially picking on them)


the RC parade comes blazing to the rescue of a downtrodden black man, regardless of whether he's right or wrong..(been witness to it in Decatur IL..)

the NRA comes in blazing to the rescue to save society anytime a law which limits a persons right to buy a gun, regarless of right or wrong.(plenty of data to back this.. eg. removal of thousands of confirmed psychologically unstable vet's from federal list of names not allowed to own or purchase a firearm)

though the goals were extremely different, you have to see the parallels.

each have factual history of making decisions based on promoting their own political agendas.

whereas many times each have done the right thing, theyre just another lousy political power that uses its ability to manipulate the weak minded.

i really dont expect anyone on this board to understand, but dont base a political desicion on an extrememly one sided comment.(mine or anyone elses) :huh

[450raider]

heres the negatives i see toward each candidate (and youll understand where my votes going)

mccain negatives= old, isnt much of a speech maker, seems to be fro big buisness (but buisness and government are two different things)....

sodama negatives= racist wife hates america, ditto for racist pastor of 20 years, photo in talibani gear (i wasnt there i dont know what was going on), bought/stole election out from under hillary from the delegates, hangs around with the likes of jackson, sharpton, pelosi ect..... need i say more??

so with that said people also need to get that while times do suck now it could still be way worse and if democrats want to turn america into chicago so bad by all means move there....

[Pappy]

Originally posted by <DRS>GPF
no, but let me help you since its not all that clear for the slower folk..


i really dont expect anyone on this board to understand,


nope, no anger here... this is the "internets" and anyone who lets it get to them must have little else in their life to go on..



Your one conflicted person. Good luck in dealing with your issues:p Ill hang out with the slower folk, they tend not to climb towers:chinese:

[<DRS>GPF]

Originally posted by jrspawn
Well, sorry for being a "slower folk". The sad thing is, its the people like you that resort to rediculus smart *** comments towards anyone not on obama's side, to feel even stronger about not voting for obama. You seriously need to relax man, or get some help. Taking cheap shots at others will get you no where, but i guess it makes you feel better or really powerfull maybe?



:huh


i guess it was a little short of me.

you wrote: "Ohhhhh. I think im getting it now. So that comment was a cheapshot comment toward white people?", adding to Pappy's comment. therefore putting yourself into the fray..

true the "slow" was completely uncalled for(i owe you an apology for that and Im sorry..), merely an explanation wouldve done.
you put yourself on the side of a commentary that had been posted in a 1-sided context.
i only showed another point of view on said data, then put up factual data on all.. no favors to any there.

then promply bashed the NRA, who is at the root of the data. though i'm sure its all true, id say its just incomplete.

[SpeedBump]

Originally posted by reptikes
Please, go back and look what you typed........ I'll give you a minute, go ahead............. I see KILL OFF POLAR BEARS IN THE WILD = MORE OIL so she decides its ok to kill them. And that because her husband is in the United Steel Workers Union it doesn't matter that he's in bed with the oil companys?

WOW.

I'd drill thru a Polar Bears HEAD to get a gallon of oil...who gives a **** about them, go see em in a ZOO!

Last time I checked and READ...she DID attempt to STOP the bridge stating "If Alaska wants to build a bridge we will. We don't WANT or NEED it, Washington"

Like posted b4...2 years and the one of the MOST liberal records. State senate? Come on, ever meet a State politician? Just there as a stepping stone for the Big Show in DC. Where the REAL money is. They are ALL power-hungry and looking to enrich themselves, not for serving US the public. I don't like McCain, She seems to be a better choice than him. I am going to hold my nose and vote for them, because the alternative is a Communist. McCain's Handlers mad a very shrewd pick. Gonna pick up LOTS of WOMEN this November and that will really hurt Obama. Good call.

[Pappy]

Originally posted by SpeedBump
McCain's Handlers mad a very shrewd pick. Gonna pick up LOTS of WOMEN this November and that will really hurt Obama. Good call.

Interestingly enough, the news is already reporting that women voters arent being swayed to vote for teh McCain ticket.

How in the world do you say yay or nay on a person when they are a relatively unknown and have only been on the ticket for but a day or two.....I dont quite understand that however....

My wife read about her, watched the news and said she seemed more like a homemaker then Hillary and if it were based just between those two women she would vote for Palin. Amazing how we make up our minds:p

[jrspawn]

No sweat off my back, apology accepted. Now put one of these
:) on your face and get out there to vote for McCain(or other party, at least not obama) or you'll be like this:mad: :grr: if you dont!

I hope you know im just messin with ya also :D


Originally posted by <DRS>GPF
i guess it was a little short of me.

you wrote: "Ohhhhh. I think im getting it now. So that comment was a cheapshot comment toward white people?", adding to Pappy's comment. therefore putting yourself into the fray..

true the "slow" was completely uncalled for(i owe you an apology for that and Im sorry..), merely an explanation wouldve done.
you put yourself on the side of a commentary that had been posted in a 1-sided context.
i only showed another point of view on said data, then put up factual data on all.. no favors to any there.

then promply bashed the NRA, who is at the root of the data. though i'm sure its all true, id say its just incomplete.

[450raider]

just a few other things i gotta get out there is it sucks how people automatically write off mccain just because he has money.....to that i say big deal... so in essence if you owned a chain of stores youd rather put a hobo in charge of things rather than donald trump just because he has enough money as is?

and i think the dem women havent picked up on palin yet because their minds run in conspiracy mode (with a party like that can you blame em) and they think their gonna outsmart mccain before he outsmarts them but when one finally listens to what she says and thinks "wow she makes sense" and then tells another and so on itll pick up..... and pick up big

[Outlaw 50]

Originally posted by <DRS>GPF





as for the rhetoric being spewed to the web by the NRA(white rainbow coalition), this is a good retort from another board.






my point...
each side in this election will have their methods for manipulating the undecided/uneducated. dont be so small as to take any comment made by either party as a 100% fact.
do some real research and make an informed decision.

Why Did it Have to be ... Guns?

"Make no mistake: all politicians—even those ostensibly on the side of guns and gun ownership—hate the issue and anyone, who insists on bringing it up. They hate it because it's an X-ray machine. It's a Vulcan mind-meld. It's the ultimate test to which any politician—or political philosophy—can be put.

If a politician isn't perfectly comfortable with the idea of his average constituent, any man, woman, or responsible child, walking into a hardware store and paying cash—for any rifle, shotgun, handgun, machinegun, anything—without producing ID or signing one scrap of paper, he isn't your friend no matter what he tells you.

If he isn't genuinely enthusiastic about his average constituent stuffing that weapon into a purse or pocket or tucking it under a coat and walking home without asking anybody's permission, he's a four-flusher, no matter what he claims.

What his attitude—toward your ownership and use of weapons—conveys is his real attitude about you. And if he doesn't trust you, then why in the name of John Moses Browning should you trust him?

If he doesn't want you to have the means of defending your life, do you want him in a position to control it?

If he makes excuses about obeying a law he's sworn to uphold and defend—the highest law of the land, the Bill of Rights—do you want to entrust him with anything?

If he ignores you, sneers at you, complains about you, or defames you, if he calls you names only he thinks are evil—like "Constitutionalist"—when you insist that he account for himself, hasn't he betrayed his oath, isn't he unfit to hold office, and doesn't he really belong in jail?

Sure, these are all leading questions. They're the questions that led me to the issue of guns and gun ownership as the clearest and most unmistakable demonstration of what any given politician—or political philosophy—is really made of.

He may lecture you about the dangerous weirdos out there who shouldn't have a gun—but what does that have to do with you? Why in the name of John Moses Browning should you be made to suffer for the misdeeds of others? Didn't you lay aside the infantile notion of group punishment when you left public school—or the military? Isn't it an essentially European notion, anyway—Prussian, maybe—and certainly not what America was supposed to be all about?

And if there are dangerous weirdos out there, does it make sense to deprive you of the means of protecting yourself from them? Forget about those other people, those dangerous weirdos, this is about you, and it has been, all along.

Try it yourself: if a politician won't trust you, why should you trust him? If he's a man—and you're not—what does his lack of trust tell you about his real attitude toward women? If "he" happens to be a woman, what makes her so perverse that she's eager to render her fellow women helpless on the mean and seedy streets her policies helped create? Should you believe her when she says she wants to help you by imposing some infantile group health care program on you at the point of the kind of gun she doesn't want you to have?

On the other hand—or the other party—should you believe anything politicians say who claim they stand for freedom, but drag their feet and make excuses about repealing limits on your right to own and carry weapons? What does this tell you about their real motives for ignoring voters and ramming through one infantile group trade agreement after another with other countries?

Makes voting simpler, doesn't it? You don't have to study every issue—health care, international trade—all you have to do is use this X-ray machine, this Vulcan mind-meld, to get beyond their empty words and find out how politicians really feel. About you. And that, of course, is why they hate it. "

[Pappy]

(Playing devils advocate here so dont run me out on a rail!!:devil: )


"But people arent the same as they were when the bill of rights were written, times have changed, we dont need guns!"

"The police are there to protect us, why do you need a gun"

"This is the 21st century, why do you need to hunt!"

[Outlaw 50]

Originally posted by Pappy
(Playing devils advocate here so dont run me out on a rail!!:devil: )



"But people aren't the same as they were when the bill of rights were written, times have changed, we don't need guns!"

People if anything, are worse than they were when the 2nd Amendment was written including politicians....


"The police are there to protect us, why do you need a gun"

Police usually arrive AFTER the crime has been committed, they won't respond to a perceived threat, only an actual crime....too late to "protect"..


"This is the 21st century, why do you need to hunt!"

Because animals taste good....http://i27.tinypic.com/15mg4k9.gif Sarah Palin's favorite meal is "Moose Stew"!

I had to answer these Pappy, I just couldn't resist....lol

[Pappy]

LOL....well im sure someone will rebut what you have posted with a completely different view:p

I do believe society has changed, but my answer to most 2nd Amendment rights issues usualy entail the fact that criminals dont follow laws, so any restrictions placed on law abiding citizens is an infringement on our rights.....the same can be said of other Amendments, but the 2nd usually takes the hit.

Im all for arming everyone,nature will weed out the stupid, the quick will weed out the slow, and the smart will handle the dumb. Jeff Cooper wrote that we should keep drug dealers and gangs supllied with lots of ammo, that way they would clean each other up faster:p

[Rastus]

Originally posted by Hyperwarrior22
obama in 08

progress

dont forget it



If you call Marxism progress.:p

[Cron]

change?
I don't associate socialism as positive change.
take a look at his tax plan


Proposed changes in taxes after 2008 General election:


CAPITAL GAINS TAX

MCCAIN
0% on home sales up to $500,000
per home (couples) McCain does not
propose any change in existing
home sales income tax.

OBAMA
28% on profit from ALL home sales
How does this affect you?
If you sell your home and make a profit, you
will pay 28% of your gain on taxes.
If you are heading toward retirement
and would like to down-size your
home or move into a retirement
community, 28% of the money you
make from your home will go to taxes. This
proposal will adversely affect the
elderly who are counting on the income
from their homes as part of their retirement income.

DIVIDEND TAX

MCCAIN 15% (no change)

OBAMA 39.6%

How will this affect you?
If you have any money invested in stock
market, IRA, mutual funds,
college funds, life insurance, retirement
accounts, or anything that pays
or reinvests dividends, you will now
be paying nearly 40% of the money
earned on taxes if Obama becomes president.
The experts predict that 'higher
tax rates on dividends and capital gains
would crash the stock market yet
do absolutely nothing to cut the deficit".

INCOME TAX

MCCAIN (no changes)

Single making 30K - tax $4,500
Single making 50K - tax $12,500
Single making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 60K- tax $9,000
Married making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 125K - tax $31,250

OBAMA
(reversion to pre-Bush tax cuts)
Single making 30K - tax $8,400
Single making 50K - tax $14,000
Single making 75K - tax $23,250
Married making 60K - tax $16,800
Married making 75K - tax $21,000
Married making 125K - tax $38,750

Under Obama your taxes will
more than double!
How does this affect you? No explanation
needed. This is pretty straight forward.

INHERITANCE TAX

MCCAIN 0% (No change, Bush repealed this tax)

OBAMA Restore the inheritance tax

How does this affect you? Many families
have lost businesses, farms and ranches, and homes
that have been in their families
for generations because they could not
afford the inheritance tax.
Those willing their assets to loved
ones will not only lose them to these taxes.

NEW TAXES BEING PROPOSED BY OBAMA


* New government taxes proposed on
homes that are more than 2400 square feet
* New gasoline taxes (as if
gas weren't high enough already)
* New taxes on natural resources
consumption (heating gas, water, electricity)
* New taxes on retirement accounts
and last but not least....

* New taxes to pay for socialized medicine
so we can receive the same level of medical

care as other third-world countries!!!

Whats his energy solution?

Not drill off the coast of ANWR, no, properly inflate your tires.

heres a list of all obamas lies for all the obama lovers.

http://savagepolitics.com/?page_id=326

[hypersnyper6947]

Originally posted by <DRS>GPF
while gladly sending my friends and family to fight

Hey they signed up for it^

If guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns

Think about that ^, the people committing the crimes will still get them, obama will just make it harder for law abiding citizens to protect themselves.

Also dont you think that maybe somebody should drug test those who are on or getting welfare, isnt that a crazy thought

[Pappy]

Originally posted by hypersnyper6947

Also dont you think that maybe somebody should drug test those who are on or getting welfare, isnt that a crazy thought

Add mandatory birth control to that

[chris46250r]

Originally posted by <DRS>GPF
nope, no anger here... this is the "internets" and anyone who lets it get to them must have little else in their life to go on..


if it makes you feel better about youself, im not voting for either one!:blah:

Not voting will fix nothing. If you dont vote, dont bi+ch about it.

[Pappy]

Originally posted by chris46250r
Not voting will fix nothing. If you dont vote, dont bi+ch about it.

He could be casting a vote for a 3rd party candidate. I think he is to active in the issue not to vote at all:p

[chris46250r]

Originally posted by Pappy
He could be casting a vote for a 3rd party candidate. I think he is to active in the issue not to vote at all:p

That is true and I meant to word it to be for anybody in general, not just DRSGPF. Thats one of the few things I still remembering a teacher tell me, "if you dont vote then dont bi+ch".

[Pappy]

Originally posted by chris46250r
Thats one of the few things I still remembering a teacher tell me, "if you dont vote then dont bi+ch".

Would you be surprised to know that there are celebrities that can not vote due to varying reasons that have a national audience that they influence daily? Kind of ironic..lol

[Rastus]

What's sad is that Obama has less executive experience than Gov. Palin, he has done almost nothing in the senate, and is just a wind bag promising people all of these nice things for free.


Article (http://news.yahoo.com/s/realclearpolitics/20080829/cm_rcp/barack_obama_offers_a_beautifu;_ylt=As_Nmr65TnhkHm SdYwR7ct6s0NUE)


You see all this hoopla over Gov. palin, her daughter, and a DUI her husband got over 20 years ago. :rolleyes: Please, where were all those hit pieces on Obama about his racist hate whiety church he went to for 20 years, or about his good friend the domestic terrorist Ayers, his racist wife, his very little experience, his crappy speaking without a teleprompter, or the large number of other shady things about him?

[reptikes]

Originally posted by SpeedBump
I am going to hold my nose and vote for them, because the alternative is a Communist.

What the h*ll are you talking about ? :huh

[Quad18star]

Politics is just that .. politics.

Has anyone every seen a politician that has kept true to everyone of his or her promises? It doesn't happen.

Politicians promise you the world ... make it look like everything is going to be blue sky and rainbows ... but the fact of the matter is ... not one of them has ever kept their promises. They'll lie to you straight faced to get your vote , and kick you in the *** after you put your little "X".

Everyone has their faults , and politicians love to play on those faults... just look at Palin's daughter being in the news. It clearly has nothing to do with how someone should vote ... but the opposing parties will play on it ... say she's a bad mother , did not teach her daughter well , yada yada yada. Who gives a crap about her daughter being pregnant?

Now on the flip side .... Palin's saying that her 17 year old daughter is madly in love with this guy who got her pregnant and that they're going to get married... blah blah blah.

Fact of the matter is , she's 17, probably not going to marry this guy , got knocked up one night because of not using protection or using a broken rubber ... life goes on. But politicians have to make it look rosy until the voter is convinced that the kid is madly in love and going to spend the rest of their life together ... atleast until that little X is put on the paper.

[hypersnyper6947]

Originally posted by Pappy
Add mandatory birth control to that

Yea for sure,

[BludgerDB]

Originally posted by Pappy
Add mandatory birth control to that

Oh the irony of this statement.

[Pappy]

Originally posted by BludgerDB
Oh the irony of this statement.

Care to explain

[ridered11]

the fact of the matter is, her nomination has transformed this election to one that will historically be a first either way it falls, and a step above the so called "glass ceiling". any osama voting liberal with their panties up in a bunch over her nomination, her daughter, yada yada yada needs to face the facts. she is about the most down to earth politician in a long while, she have done great things, and yes she is human she makes mistakes. But in regards to legitimacy, she far exceeds osama's executive experience and would have no problem stepping up to any role. i would first question osamas capabilities before i ever questioned hers, she for one has proven herself. osama preaches and promises about all this so called change: no dependency on oil, huge tax cuts blah blah blah, do people not realize he doesn't even have the power to do that?

McCain's choice has def. solidified another republican returning to office, osama will bit the dust

God Bless America

[Quad18star]

I'd be interested in seeing what would happen if McCain kicked the bucket and Palin had the power. Seems like a lot of people voted against Clinton for the sole fact that she was a woman ... and I've seen in previous threads when the battle was between Obama and Clinton , many of you guys said you'd never vote for Clinton for the simple fact that she's a woman.

So what would you all say if she (Palin) had the power?

[Pappy]

Hillary is female

:confused: :devil:

[Quad18star]

Originally posted by Pappy
Hillary is female

:confused: :devil:

Hillary vs Palin ... 5 3 minute rounds of mud wrestling . It'll bring out the voters. :)

[TheJaspMan]

Originally posted by Pappy
Add mandatory birth control to that

Good choice, maybe they should start with Palin's daughter. :blah:

[Pappy]

Originally posted by TheJaspMan
Good choice, maybe they should start with Palin's daughter. :blah:

Somehow I dont see Palins daughter in line with a handful of WIC cards, on unemployment,on welfare and a burden of the state, with her 3 other children and pregnant again :p

[Quad18star]

Originally posted by TheJaspMan
Good choice, maybe they should start with Palin's daughter. :blah:

But she's " In Love" and going to marry this guy. She's already got her whole life planned out ..... at 17!!!!:p

[TheJaspMan]

Originally posted by Pappy
Somehow I dont see Palins daughter in line with a handful of WIC cards, on unemployment and a burden of the state, with her 3 other children and pregnant again :p

Me neither, but that doesn't make her better than poor or stupid people. It just makes her another spoiled rich girl. :p

[Pappy]

Originally posted by TheJaspMan
Me neither, but that doesn't make her better than poor or stupid people. It just makes her another spoiled rich girl. :p

It may not make her better, but she will have the resources to raise the child in a manner that neither her nor the child becomes a burden to the taxpayer, and I am pretty sure she did not get knocked up to draw more in the welfare check and pad the WIC vouchers like so many of our great citizens have been doing for more then 20 years, which is the point I made in my original statement regarding birth control and welfare.

[TheJaspMan]

Originally posted by Pappy
It may not make her better, but she will have the resources to raise the child in a manner that neither her nor the child becomes a burden to the taxpayer, and I am pretty sure she did not get knocked up to draw more in the welfare check and pad the WIC vouchers like so many of our great citizens have been doing for more then 20 years, which is the point I made in my original statement regarding birth control and welfare.

Come on Pappy, you know that is stereotyping. Not all people are so vile as to do that kind of thing. I know many republicans who are nothinbg more than white trash in other ways.

You can't be an advocate of abstinence and at the same time support teen pregnancy regardless of monitary stature. Her parents look more like hypocrites to me. Forget the 'keeping the baby' bit - that is the lessor of the major issue.

My vote does not sit with Obama, but I am very disappointed in the decision to use Palin. There were many other choices that [in my opinion] were a much better option. Her drama is already making a mild mockery of the election.

[Pappy]

I wasnt using political affiliation, I was using first hand knowledge. I see it each and everytime I go to the grocery store:p I read it in almost every newspaper we get regularly enough to know it is a problem. To deny it doesnt help, infact it hurts those that need the assistance more then it does me personally.


And yes, if a person needs government assistance to survive, I think its in the governments full right to ask that they be drug free, refrain from becoming pregnant and be seeking either employment or an education.

There is nothing stereotypical about anything besides the screwed system and the people who abuse it. The way I see it, fix them both!

[TheJaspMan]

Originally posted by Pappy
I wasnt using political affiliation, I was using first hand knowledge. I see it each and everytime I go to the grocery store:p I read it in almost every newspaper we get regularly enough to know it is a problem. To deny it doesnt help, infact it hurts those that need the assistance more then it does me personally.


And yes, if a person needs government assistance to survive, I think its in the governments full right to ask that they be drug free, refrain from becoming pregnant and be seeking either employment or an education.

There is nothing stereotypical about anything besides the screwed system and the people who abuse it. The way I see it, fix them both!

I totally agree with you on mandatory drug testing for anyone on welfare, WIC, unemployment or any other state or federal aid. Absolutly, 100% could not agree more!!

I also think teen pregancy shouldn't be covered by insurance unless rape charges are filed. I admit it has its bad points, but I am tired of my health insurance rising too. Its possible parents would be a little more effective in their childs lives if it affected thier lifestyles.

As a brother of four out of five sisters who have made a lifestyle of abusing the system I am pretty tough on these issues. They are some of those burdens you speak of, but I make zero excuses for them. Nor will I help them until they help themselves. I know the mindset and selfish attitudes of 17 year old mothers all to well.

Palin shouldn't be touting how proud she is, she should be apoligizing to the American public for her daughters complete disregard for safe sex and/or abstinence that her mother so openly preaches. Her daughter is nothing more than another statistic regardless of who pays the bill.

[Pappy]

Originally posted by TheJaspMan


Now that I can agree with.

Unfortunatley, responsibility is almost a bad word when your are in a conversation about politicians:p But I fully agree, if we held the parents responsible, they might just do more parenting.....but at 17 you wouldnt keep me out of some chicks pants no matter what you said:p Proper education on safe sex is one area that I think parents need to be way more involved in. Hell i dont remember anyone ever telling me to be safe.....but that was the 80's and as long as you werent gay you werent going to get anything a shot couldnt handle or at worst, a pregnancy. No one ever told us how the later would affect us in the long term, or how it would affect the child.

What I do see non stop, and it covers alot of different races, is women with 4 or 5 children, standing in line at the grocery store with a handfull of WIC vouchers. I dont care what color you are...if you have to rely on the government...CLOSE YOUR LEGS!!!!And this is where I wish the governemnt would step in and make it possible, someway, that people could be prevented from having baby after baby while they are dependant on state assistance. This isnt a political thing, a racial thing its a damn truth thing.

Sorry, rant off:p


Key Facts
Despite the United States' teenage pregnancy and birth rates decrease, 1 in 3 teen girls in the United States becomes pregnant by age 20. Most of the pregnancies are unplanned. 11


Females who have been in foster care are 2.5 times more likely than those who have not been in foster care to have become pregnant by age 19. 12


Females who have been in foster care have higher birth rates than their non-foster care counterparts (31.6% versus 12.2%) and higher subsequent pregnancy rates (46% versus 29%). 13


Teenage mothers are less likely to complete high school and only 1.5% earns a college degree by age 30. This, in turn, influences their earning capacity and likelihood to live on welfare. 14


In 2004 alone, teen childbearing cost United States taxpayers $9.1 billion, including a $2.3 billion increase in child welfare costs. 15 Between 1991-2005, the U.S. birth rate for teens, age 15 to19, declined 35% to 40.4 births per 1,000 teen girls in 2005, after reaching its highest point in two decades (61.8 births per 1,000 teen girls, age 15 to 19 in 1991). Between 2005 and 2006, preliminary data suggest that rates have risen approximately 3%. 16

[TheJaspMan]

Originally posted by Pappy

Sorry, rant off:p

Forums rants are allowed during election time! :p

[mx3mom]

My turn to rant. First off, I am not an Obama supporter and I definetly am not a republican supporter. At this point, I don't feel like my vote counts anyway so there isn't much use in voting.

First because, Clinton had the majority vote but yet we are stuck with Obama: second Bush didn't have the popular vote either and we got stuck with him, not only one term but two.

McCain's choice of Vice President is an insult to women in general. Does he really think that just because of her gender, it should want me to vote for just ANY woman because I'm a woman. There were plenty of qualified people out there that he could have chosen.

Now on with the issue of the pregnancy thing. RANT, RANT!
Both of you guys (Pappy & Jaspman) are making some valid points, I too get upset to know that there are too many people abusing the system of welfare. I agree with drug testing, I definetly don't want to be supporting someones habit of that, I have a hard enough time supporting our own racing habit. The only thing that I see that you two GUYS are leaving out of the scenario are the irresponsible fathers of all of these kids born to women who don't/won't close their legs. Birth control has to work both ways. Make these sperm donors help pay for all of their two legged mistakes or have them nuetered.

Sounds a little harsh, but nip & clip both sexes. I think it would be cheaper on us working people in the long run to pay for the surgeries than paying taxes to raise 3,4,5, or 6 illigitimate chldren on welfare until they turn 18 or get pregnant and we continue the cycle all over again.
:devil:

[TheJaspMan]

Originally posted by mx3mom
My turn to rant. First off, I am not an Obama supporter and I definetly am not a republican supporter. At this point, I don't feel like my vote counts anyway so there isn't much use in voting.

First because, Clinton had the majority vote but yet we are stuck with Obama: second Bush didn't have the popular vote either and we got stuck with him, not only one term but two.

McCain's choice of Vice President is an insult to women in general. Does he really think that just because of her gender, it should want me to vote for just ANY woman because I'm a woman. There were plenty of qualified people out there that he could have chosen.

Now on with the issue of the pregnancy thing. RANT, RANT!
Both of you guys (Pappy & Jaspman) are making some valid points, I too get upset to know that there are too many people abusing the system of welfare. I agree with drug testing, I definetly don't want to be supporting someones habit of that, I have a hard enough time supporting our own racing habit. The only thing that I see that you two GUYS are leaving out of the scenario are the irresponsible fathers of all of these kids born to women who don't/won't close their legs. Birth control has to work both ways. Make these sperm donors help pay for all of their two legged mistakes or have them nuetered.

Sounds a little harsh, but nip & clip both sexes. I think it would be cheaper on us working people in the long run to pay for the surgeries than paying taxes to raise 3,4,5, or 6 illigitimate chldren on welfare until they turn 18 or get pregnant and we continue the cycle all over again.
:devil:

I don't forget about those dads, I just left it out.

I think our society is way too lacked on deadbeat dads. Its time to lock them up and make them serve time. The biggest problem right now is that there is no punishment. Four kids, 3-4 moms, no money coming in? Lock em up! What good does it do to let them live on the street doing drugs, drinking and having more kids? Let them have sex in jail.

[Outlaw 50]

Originally posted by mx3mom
My turn to rant. First off, I am not an Obama supporter and I definetly am not a republican supporter. At this point, I don't feel like my vote counts anyway so there isn't much use in voting.

Are you a 3rd party voter?


Originally posted by mx3mom
First because, Clinton had the majority vote but yet we are stuck with Obama: second Bush didn't have the popular vote either and we got stuck with him, not only one term but two.

According to the Democratic Party rules Obama had more delegates so he IS the nominee for the party and aside form the fact that he is a black man his view of this country is exactly the same as Hillary's......


Originally posted by mx3mom
McCain's choice of Vice President is an insult to women in general. Does he really think that just because of her gender, it should want me to vote for just ANY woman because I'm a woman. There were plenty of qualified people out there that he could have chosen.

How is the choice of a person from outside of Washington DC an insult to women??? His pick for VP is not based on your wants/desires, it is based on his wants/desires......




Originally posted by mx3mom
Sounds a little harsh, but nip & clip both sexes. I think it would be cheaper on us working people in the long run to pay for the surgeries than paying taxes to raise 3,4,5, or 6 illigitimate chldren on welfare until they turn 18 or get pregnant and we continue the cycle all over again.
:devil:

"Nip & Clip".........huh, are you advocating the government having the power to determine who can and who cannot reproduce???? Have you ever heard of our US Constitution???

[TheJaspMan]

Originally posted by Outlaw 50
Have you ever heard of our US Constitution???

Like the rest of us, I am sure she has. However have you ever heard of the term 'abuse'? That is what is happening in this country. With the rational that people are free to do whatever, whenever they want and live off the goverment we are no better than a third world country that is overpopulated and underfed.

If someone wants to live off the goverment - fine. But they should accept the rules to do so. If they don't want to be snipped, let them work. Its not complicated.

In fact, its the same theory that most parents put on their children - if you want to live at home, live by their rules. Oh wait, its the kids with no household rules that tend to end up as deadbeat dads, single teenage mothers, felons and/or a drain on society. And the cycle begins again.

That is why Palin sets such a poor example in my eyes. She, as a conservitive republican, has a prego teenage daughter at home. Money to raise the child does not make it right. I still want to know if she was 16 at the time of consception and how old the father is.

[631kfx400]

i just found out that the her pregnent daughters boyfriend or whatever is a proffessional snowcross rider. i dont know his name though

[Rastus]

I think you are talking about Todd, Sarah's husband. If I remember right, he has won it a couple times.


http://markhalperin.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/usnewscover.jpg http://www.drudgereport.com/us1.jpg



Quite a difference I'd say in their journalism. :ermm: First time I've seen an infant with down syndrom used as an attack against someone. I think what drives the left to do things like this is it's a typical American family that has worked to be successful and is alot like many Americans, and it absolutely drives them nuts.

[TheJaspMan]

Originally posted by Rastus
I think you are talking about Todd, Sarah's husband. If I remember right, he has won it a couple times.


http://markhalperin.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/usnewscover.jpg http://www.drudgereport.com/us1.jpg



Quite a difference I'd say in their journalism. :ermm: First time I've seen an infant with down syndrom used as an attack against someone. I think what drives the left to do things like this is it's a typical American family that has worked to be successful and is alot like many Americans, and it absolutely drives them nuts.

Huh? I don't question either cover. With the exception of the 'lies' word I have no issue with either. Scandel is the only way to describe Palin so far, and I ask myself daily why Obama loves that people hating *****. :p

[Pappy]

Originally posted by mx3mom
The only thing that I see that you two GUYS are leaving out of the scenario are the irresponsible fathers of all of these kids born to women who don't/won't close their legs. Birth control has to work both ways. Make these sperm donors help pay for all of their two legged mistakes or have them nuetered.

Sounds a little harsh, but nip & clip both sexes.

Thats why I stated "them". last time I checked it took 2 to tango. Im not advocating anything more then birth control. be it the pill, patch or even more access to condoms. But I think that if there were absolutley no benefit on having more children, they would stop having 4, 5 6 kids out of wedlock and with no viable means beyond our tax dollars to support them.

[Cron]

It sickens me how the media has been attacking Palin this working mom, question whether she can be VP, while having 5 kids. I find that very insulting. Never before have i seen such as obvious bias in the entire media. This women has more experience than Obama, yet the media has lashed out at her. All the skeletons in Obamas closet have not even been mentioned once in the main stream media.

[mx3mom]

It seems I may have treaded on some toes, but I'm simply stating my opinion and you know what they say about those...........everyone has one. No, I am not a third party voter, I'm simply staying home this November. I give up my right to ***** because it doesn't accomplish anything anyway.

Life is to short to worry about the things we can't change.
Like I said before, just my opinion.

[450raider]

Originally posted by Cron
It sickens me how the media has been attacking Palin this working mom, question whether she can be VP, while having 5 kids. I find that very insulting. Never before have i seen such as obvious bias in the entire media. This women has more experience than Obama, yet the media has lashed out at her. All the skeletons in Obamas closet have not even been mentioned once in the main stream media.


agreed, but sooner or later people will see what i stumbled upon a few months ago, that the media (and gossips such as us weekly alike) NEED sodama to win because they know as well as i do that to bring the money in you need depressing controversial bs week in and week out, and thats exactly what theylle get with sodama& co. in office....... and theres simply no money in mccain laying low and solving problems.....

[chris46250r]

Originally posted by mx3mom
It seems I may have treaded on some toes, but I'm simply stating my opinion and you know what they say about those...........everyone has one. No, I am not a third party voter, I'm simply staying home this November. I give up my right to ***** because it doesn't accomplish anything anyway.

Life is to short to worry about the things we can't change.
Like I said before, just my opinion.

I really dont like what there is to choose from either but I will show up to vote. Its kinda like reaching down in the toilet and pulling out a turd, no matter the outcome you still got a turd, you just hope you didnt pick the worst one.

[reptikes]

Originally posted by 450raider
agreed, but sooner or later people will see what i stumbled upon a few months ago, that the media (and gossips such as us weekly alike) NEED sodama to win because they know as well as i do that to bring the money in you need depressing controversial bs week in and week out, and thats exactly what theylle get with sodama& co. in office....... and theres simply no money in mccain laying low and solving problems.....


You read the Enquire to much!:eek2:

[S.A.J]

all i can say is MCCAIN&PALIN for pres. n vp

oh and obama shld just pack his bags up n go home
n liebermans speech was good ystrday betcha thm democrats r pisseddd HAHA

[Outlaw 50]

Originally posted by mx3mom
It seems I may have treaded on some toes, but I'm simply stating my opinion and you know what they say about those...........everyone has one. No, I am not a third party voter, I'm simply staying home this November. I give up my right to ***** because it doesn't accomplish anything anyway.

Life is to short to worry about the things we can't change.
Like I said before, just my opinion.

No toes stepped on and no offense taken....I'm just curious about how you arrived at your conclusion/opinion..?

[mx3mom]

Outlaw 50
#1 No I am not a third party voter
#2 Votes should be peoples choice (popular vote) not delegates
#3 No one said this election is about me or my wants/desires. This election should be with our countries best interest at heart and trying to straighten out the mess we are in thanks to all our great leaders in Washington DC.
Hell if it was based on my wants and desires....ATV racers would be treated like our bike riders, everyone who wanted a factory ride would have one and gas would be free for everyone who races or goes to the races to watch
:D
#4 Nip & Clip --The government couldn't possibly make that decision..Bush doesn't even know how much a gallon of gas is...McCain don't know how many homes he owns....Obama(imo) is racist (birds of a feather flock together) even if its in church.:blah:
CONSTITUTION?????? WHATS THAT?:rolleyes::D

[bwamos]

Originally posted by TheJaspMan
That is why Palin sets such a poor example in my eyes. She, as a conservitive republican, has a prego teenage daughter at home. Money to raise the child does not make it right. I still want to know if she was 16 at the time of consception and how old the father is.

So she's a poor example because she chose to stand behind her daughter instead of disowning her or forcing her daughter to have an abortion?

Bristol is 17. Levi is 18.

Bristol was born in 1990. She's 5 months pregnant. Soooo.. it is safe to say she was 17 when the child was conceived. Simple math really. She'll be 18 before the child is born. The baby should be born in January sometime.

I think it's quite ironic that a lot of the "pro-choice" folks thinks it's wrong that they "chose" to keep the baby and they "chose" to get married because they beleive it is the right thing to do.

[reptikes]

Originally posted by bwamos
and they "chose" to get married because they beleive it is the right thing to do.

Who says they chose? Who says that they even really like each other all like that? What do you really think Palin was gonna say about it? (My daughter got drunk at a party and passed out. Thats when the class clown from school slipped it in her, and here we are.)

Vote for change! Obama

[bwamos]

Originally posted by reptikes
Who says they chose?

Umm.. they did. They were not forced into marriage by their own words.

Any proof otherwise?

FYI.. he has Bristol tatoo'd on his ring finger. Not really something a reluctant partner would do.

[coryatver]

he is from the same home town and is the towns hocky star. They have known each other for a while its not like they met at a bar one night and she got pregnant and they are getting married.:huh They were already planning on getting married before the pregnancy.

[Quad18star]

Originally posted by coryatver
he is from the same home town and is the towns hocky star.

You mean she's a Puck Bunny ?!?!
LMAO .

If you don't know what a puck bunny is ... I'll direct you to this website. :D

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=puck+bunny

[TheJaspMan]

Originally posted by bwamos
So she's a poor example because she chose to stand behind her daughter instead of disowning her or forcing her daughter to have an abortion?

Bristol is 17. Levi is 18.

Bristol was born in 1990. She's 5 months pregnant. Soooo.. it is safe to say she was 17 when the child was conceived. Simple math really. She'll be 18 before the child is born. The baby should be born in January sometime.

I think it's quite ironic that a lot of the "pro-choice" folks thinks it's wrong that they "chose" to keep the baby and they "chose" to get married because they beleive it is the right thing to do.

What makes you think I'm pro-choice?

You speak like a true republican. Kudos.

You act like its about keeping or not keeping the baby. It has to do with the poltics that got her 17 year old kid to that point. Maybe if she would have taught abstinence AND safe sex she wouldn't have this situation on her hands.

The age deal... come on... lets make excuses for her. So what if she is 18 when the baby is born? She is in high school, I suppose that may be acceptable and what you would want to teach your kids its OK to do, but I do not agree.

[TheJaspMan]

Originally posted by bwamos
Umm.. they did. They were not forced into marriage by their own words.

Any proof otherwise?

FYI.. he has Bristol tatoo'd on his ring finger. Not really something a reluctant partner would do.

Sounds like she picked a winner!!

Yeah, thats enough proof for me that they are intellegent and mature enough to raise a child and stay happily together for their rest of their lives (like a tattoo last).

.... or not.

[TheJaspMan]

Originally posted by coryatver
he is from the same home town and is the towns hocky star. They have known each other for a while its not like they met at a bar one night and she got pregnant and they are getting married.:huh They were already planning on getting married before the pregnancy.

I did the same thing growing up... to bad we split when we were 20. Damn unknown changes in the mind as we age.

[bwamos]

Originally posted by TheJaspMan
What makes you think I'm pro-choice?

You speak like a true republican. Kudos.

You act like its about keeping or not keeping the baby. It has to do with the poltics that got her 17 year old kid to that point. Maybe if she would have taught abstinence AND safe sex she wouldn't have this situation on her hands.

The age deal... come on... lets make excuses for her. So what if she is 18 when the baby is born? She is in high school, I suppose that may be acceptable and what you would want to teach your kids its OK to do, but I do not agree.

I am a very old fasioned conservative christian, and I'm not trying to be anything otherwise.

Just as a note.. I was not refering to you as being pro-choice. I was refering to the general media. I don't know where you stand, you have not stated. You are pro-life correct? ;)

You're acting like she didn't teach her abstinence or safe sex. I am pretty sure her daughter is a teenager. I am also pretty sure most teenagers have sex with or without their parents conscent.

I do not agree that teenagers should be having sex, either. I firmly beleive that you shouldn't have sex until marriage.. but not many folks would not agree.. lol. I'm not making any excuses. Her daughter got knocked up. But, my argument is that that does not disqualify that person's parent from being a public figure. A 17yr old makes their own decisions. Good or Bad.

My parents were great parents. They taught us about safe sex, not having sex before marriage, and to not do drugs, etc.. etc..

My sister got herself knocked up by a convicted attempted murderer, and she was a methhead to the point her cuticles would bleed. At, no fault of my parents. She was 18. She made up her own mind, made her own mistakes, and chose her own friends. Thank god she grew up and realized she was being an idiot.


Let's come up with a scenario. Your 17 year old daughter came up to you and told you that she is pregnant w/ her boyfriends baby. She's a senior in High School and she will com to term right in the middle of the school year.

What do you do?

[bwamos]

Originally posted by TheJaspMan
Sounds like she picked a winner!!

Yeah, thats enough proof for me that they are intellegent and mature enough to raise a child and stay happily together for their rest of their lives (like a tattoo last).

.... or not.

Did not say he was a winner, never did. Just stating that it was not likley a forced marriage. The doof knocked up his girlfriend.

[TheJaspMan]

Originally posted by bwamos
I am a very old fasioned conservative christian, and I'm not trying to be anything otherwise.

Just as a note.. I was not refering to you as being pro-choice. I was refering to the general media. I don't know where you stand, you have not stated. You are pro-life correct? ;)

You're acting like she didn't teach her abstinence or safe sex. I am pretty sure her daughter is a teenager. I am also pretty sure most teenagers have sex with or without their parents conscent.

I do not agree that teenagers should be having sex, either. I firmly beleive that you shouldn't have sex until marriage.. but not many folks would not agree.. lol. I'm not making any excuses. Her daughter got knocked up. But, my argument is that that does not disqualify that person's parent from being a public figure. A 17yr old makes their own decisions. Good or Bad.

My parents were great parents. They taught us about safe sex, not having sex before marriage, and to not do drugs, etc.. etc..

My sister got herself knocked up by a convicted attempted murderer, and she was a methhead to the point her cuticles would bleed. At, no fault of my parents. She was 18. She made up her own mind, made her own mistakes, and chose her own friends. Thank god she grew up and realized she was being an idiot.


Let's come up with a scenario. Your 17 year old daughter came up to you and told you that she is pregnant w/ her boyfriends baby. She's a senior in High School and she will com to term right in the middle of the school year.

What do you do?


Palin is a far sided conservative republican - she is against safe sex teachings. Abstinence or nothing.

I have four sisters who were prego in high school. I have to be honest, I still love them and help the kids out whenever needed. But they discovered how low I view them. Teenage parents only prove how selfish and immature they are. In no way are the large majority ready to be parents, spouses or adults. Everyone one of my sisters proved my point to me over and over and over and over again. In many ways their lives have never recovered.

As for the question - if the boyfreind was 18 and it was locally against the law he would be spending some time in the pokey. Period. My daughter would either get a job and start improving her life or tough love would kick in. My enabling her just to try and make sure the child was OK would not help anyone in the long run. Its a sad scenario that can ONLY be helped by not getting prego in the first place.

I agree that is does not remove Palin from running for office, but I question her ability to make choices that will effect my life and the life of my family. No one is perfect, but the way this was all handled seems shady to me. Its simply my right to opinion. And I do not want to seem like I am forcing it down other people, but I will def express it.

[TheJaspMan]

Originally posted by bwamos
Did not say he was a winner, never did. Just stating that it was not likley a forced marriage. The doof knocked up his girlfriend.

The word 'doof' made me laugh. :p

[Pappy]

Originally posted by TheJaspMan
[B]

I agree that is does not remove Palin from running for office, but I question her ability to make choices that will effect my life and the life of my family. B]

It wasnt Palin's choice, and I doubt you will find many 17 year olds that dont think they are old enough to make life decisions on their own regardless of how well of an up-bringing they have had. By your statements, your parents must not have had much influence on your sisters? Thats not a derogatory comment, just an observation based on your admissions and your stated opinion on the matter.

And being 18, and a 17 year old willing participants in the pregnacy does not meet many, if any states requirements for statuatory rape. Its fact as far as im aware of that they were both 17 at the time of conception, and both willing partners in the act.

[bwamos]

Originally posted by TheJaspMan
As for the question - if the boyfreind was 18 and it was locally against the law he would be spending some time in the pokey.

If he were 18 and she was 15. Yea. But, I'm pretty sure it's not illegal anywhere for a 17 and an 18 year old to have consentual sex. Age of consent in Alaska is 16. (Not that I believe it's a good idea.. it just wasn't illegal.)


Period. My daughter would either get a job and start improving her life or tough love would kick in. My enabling her just to try and make sure the child was OK would not help anyone in the long run. Its a sad scenario that can ONLY be helped by not getting prego in the first place.

Yep.. crud happens. And, people do stupid things. Family, should support not "enable" them in the negative context, I agree. They should enable them to be as succesfull as they possibly can be, though. It is time for them to grow up and become the adults they were pretending to be.



I agree that is does not remove Palin from running for office, but I question her ability to make choices that will effect my life and the life of my family. No one is perfect, but the way this was all handled seems shady to me. Its simply my right to opinion. And I do not want to seem like I am forcing it down other people, but I will def express it.

Here we disagree.. I didn't see her make any poor choices. She opted to do what she thought was best for her child. She was open and honest about the situation with the country. She is the one that announced it, (granted it was fueled by the rumors that the Down's syndrome baby was her daughters and not her own), but it was going to come out eventually anyway. She did not disown her daughter or ship her off to some boarding school because she was a disgrace to the family. The best thing for her daughter and the child would be for her to get family support so she can finish high school and complete college so she can give herself and the child the best chance possible in succeding in life. She has a huge hurdle to get over, but you have to start somewhere.

I just don't see what the other "right way" to handle the situation would have been?

[Quad18star]

I'm curious to know who's going to be paying for all the baby's stuff? Mommy ... Daddy ??? Not once have I seen a highschool kid make enough money to support a family.

[chris46250r]

Originally posted by Quad18star
I'm curious to know who's going to be paying for all the baby's stuff? Mommy ... Daddy ??? Not once have I seen a highschool kid make enough money to support a family.

It doesn't matter as long as its not in the form of a government check. At least to me anyway.