Performance hop ups for DS 250???

[mbarryracing]

Anyone playing with tuning one of these?

We got one for the wife when I got my Outlander this past spring, good promotion going from Can AM. She liked it at first but then we realized it could use some tweaking, had trouble on some hills at the riding park we ride at in PA.
Hence, I couldn't resist to start playing and have so far tuned the clutch so it rev's higher and more freely to use the HP from this 4-valve head, instead of lugging so low from the factory setup.
Added +2 wheel spacers to the front with the set of Works Performance AT-steeler dual rate shocks (that I had from a previous 250 race quad), and changed the rear 20" OEM tires to a 22", installed a Uni-Filter. This thing gets up and scoots now, will climb hills effortlessly that it previously would wimper and groan at.

I know there are exhaust available, but not ready to pay the big $$$ just yet.

Any other experiences or recommendations out there? Would gladly trade some tech knowledge.

[Z400Pilot]

Where did you get the wheel spacers from? How much were they? Do you think the back needs spacers too?

Thanks

[mbarryracing]

I got 2" billet spacers. We installed wider and taller 22" Swamp Lite rear tires so the 2" spacers evened out the front with the rear. The biggest improvement though was the Works dual rate shocks...

[Z400Pilot]

Thanks for the wheel spacer info. That seems to be the biggest problem my wife has with her quad at the moment is that it is tippy. So I will address that first. So far we have only done desert riding with it, so not too many hills. I hope get it out to the dunes soon to see how it does there. I think I might have to look at a clutch mod depending on how it does.

[mbarryracing]

It will only help, here is where I got mine from (Mesa AZ) so close to you... By far the best deal $$$.

I highly recommend the clutch tuning, it makes the machine pull harder and doesn't lug the engine as much. My wife found it easier to ride because she didn't have to use as much throttle so it was more predictable as well.
And it didn't cost a dime...

[RTJ]

i'm confused. i used 4x110 bolt pattern on my sons. worked fine. are the 110 &144 that close togeather or could they possably have different patterns :confused:

[mbarryracing]

Originally posted by RTJ
i'm confused. i used 4x110 bolt pattern on my sons. worked fine. are the 110 &144 that close togeather or could they possably have different patterns :confused:

Oh Crap, it is a 110 bolt pattern, I screwed up in that posting. I used 4x110 2" spacers...

Thanks for bringing that up RTJ!!!!
Sorry guys. :huh

[mbarryracing]

We rode as a family this past weekend in PA. Swapped with my wife for a while so she could ride my Outlander, gave me a chance to play around on the DS. I actually could wheelie over the rolling bumps in the trails now, before it would just bog. The engine stayed right in the power, even got to show my 7 yr old how to power slide... Now if we can just figure out how to improve the front of this uncomfortable seat???

[AZ. desertrider]

I read your post MBerry, and I was wondering who did your clutch tuning? the Uni filter is that with a stock jet. My dealership told me that they could put a FMF pipe and filter with a jet for a hefty price. Im just looking for somrthing like your CVT clutch tuning. Please let me know if you can help me with this problem.

Thanks, J.W.

[mbarryracing]

Originally posted by AZ. desertrider
I read your post MBerry, and I was wondering who did your clutch tuning? the Uni filter is that with a stock jet. My dealership told me that they could put a FMF pipe and filter with a jet for a hefty price. Im just looking for somrthing like your CVT clutch tuning. Please let me know if you can help me with this problem.

Thanks, J.W.

JW, yeah those mods are pricey and in the end it's still only a 250. They flow more air and fuel but doesn't matter if the engine is not revving and taking advantage of what it already has.

I put the Uni in the stock airbox and didn't touch the factory jetting, it doesn't flow that much more air to require a rejet, just filters WAY better.

The change in clutch weight made a HUGE difference, but it's a custom mod though as there isn't any aftermarket weights available in that size (yet). I ground on mine with a porting tool and used a scale to make all 6 roller weights equal, gradually sneaking up on the final weight after testing numerous times.
Small bore 4 strokes need to rev to the moon to make power (like a little 1.6L 4 cylinder import car engine compared to a big block V8). This Can Am has a 4 valve head designed to obviously flow more air... But it doesn't take advantage of that with the stock (mild and tame) clutch calibration as it lugs the engine and doesn't rev to make it's potential HP (unless you reach full speed on the road and then it starts to rev out, too late by then).
PM me and i'll tell you the weight I dialed in to.

[ziggers]

Just wondering if I could ask ,what weight you put the weights at? And how did you go about it?

[mbarryracing]

Close to completing the development on my new clutch re-calibration for this DS250, will have comparison performance data to stock.
More to follow.

[deathcorefan2]

hey i don't mean to be rude but why don't you ditch those heavy rear tires and but some lightweight 18 inch or 20 inch holeshots on.

that would lighten it up a bit to squeeze a little more power out.

[mbarryracing]

Originally posted by deathcorefan2
hey i don't mean to be rude but why don't you ditch those heavy rear tires and but some lightweight 18 inch or 20 inch holeshots on.

that would lighten it up a bit to squeeze a little more power out.

No you're all good... I hear you and you're right, that would be better if we were racing this but sadly it is only a 250 and my wife doesn't ever take it on a race track anyhow, only trail rides. The stock rear tires didn't work very well for the trail conditions we typically ride...

We intentionally put these on for safety and here is why, with the stock 20" tires she was contantly getting hung up and spinning out on the steep hills (hard packed clay ground) and rutty trails that we often ride on. It needed some knarly meat grabbing tires with more ground clearance, these gained us 1" of ground clearance and the lugs grab 500% better than low profile tires that were on it.

18" tires the ground clearance would be even worse, those would be the most unpractical for our trails! It would probably get stuck in my front yard... like trying to take a Corvette off roading? LOL!

We corrected the final gear ratio to compensate for the 2" larger tires with a smaller front sprocket so it is back to same as stock.

FYI: changing tires won't make the engine produce more power because this has a CVT transmission.

[mbarryracing]

Yesterday we accomplished the final calibration with all new springs and custom roller weights (not lightened stock rollers) for the FPP DS250 performance clutch setup!
The engagement of the centrifugal clutch was raised from 2600RPM stock to 3600RPM with full lock up at 4900-5000 RPM (which is 1600 RPM closer to peak torque than the stock 3400).
So, that means it cruises at about that RPM now... not excessive by any means.

Shift out occurs at 6900-7000 RPM right at peak HP, up from 5200 stock.

Even with the taller big meat grabbing 22" rear mud lug tires, it will power-brake in the hard packed drive way and somewhat wheelie now.

This sure is fun and very responsive compared to stock... Also the 14 tooth front sprockets, that I now have, will improve things even more!

I'll get the drag track timing and radar gun results posted soon but in the mean time here are a few video's trying to show the achieved higher engagement and shift out RPMs.
Sorry they aren't the greatest and don't do the real performance gain any justice...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEYQcc0mlxw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lW4g085JGbI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWO4apynGMc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrOneFtzmbI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1-fZFPw_EA

[mbarryracing]

Here are some examples I found on Youtube of a stock machine clutch calibration stalling on hills and needing a helping hand to get moving again. The clutch is slipping because the engine is not making enough torque at that low RPM to keep it locked up. The result is stalled forward movement becoming a dangerous situation.
As any snowball effect, the clutch slips and gets hotter and causes it to slip even more...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ue5wljrtQ8I&feature=related

Notice the rear tires are NOT spinning, and he has the throttle pinned... it's just grunting going no where.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1Zxps6syu4&feature=related

Another with the engine lugging way down under load, barely getting it done... not very exciting or responsive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zTKAL01pwQ&NR=1

This same scenario is what was happening to my Wife on steep hills in PA, leading to this whole clutch development. The ATV eventually stopped forward movement all together and then what? Reason for the busted up / stitched rear fender... Lucky the only thing she hurt was her bravery.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtl1tIl--JU&feature=related

[deathcorefan2]

you should of got some 20 or 22 inch razr2's.

they are nice for trails and muddy conditions.

i do like the 250 though. nice work.

[mbarryracing]

Oh yes, the Razr's would be nice but we got a sweet deal on the Swamp Lites...

[deathcorefan2]

lol that is funny..i have a set of 4 razrs for sale right now. lol.

fronts are 23 rear are 22.
used but plenty of tread.

lol

[mbarryracing]

Originally posted by deathcorefan2
lol that is funny..i have a set of 4 razrs for sale right now. lol.

fronts are 23 rear are 22.
used but plenty of tread.

lol

LOL, funny I have a barely used set of OEM 20" rear kenda tires that need a good home!

[deathcorefan2]

Originally posted by mbarryracing
LOL, funny I have a barely used set of OEM 20" rear kenda tires that need a good home!

dang, if you had some fronts you might have some buisiness. lol

[RTJ]

the clutch kits are now available for the public direct from FULL POWER PERFORMANCE. i recently bought one. WOW what a difference it comes with everything you need including easy to follow instructions. mbarryracing and the guys at FPP are great to deal with. this kit is a must have for anyone with a DS250 that wants better performance.

[atvextremerider]

i would look for a slip on for a DS250