Easiest flowing oil filter

[MtnEX]

Guys, I'm running a Wix oil filter and I'm trying to eliminate cold oil flow as a possible problem.

Anyone have any idea about what filter might have the easiest/fastest flow rate.


I'll need to eliminate the Mobil 1 20w50 too, but I'm taking everything one step at a time.

[rideracelivemx7]

what are you trying to figure out? your really not going to get an oil filter that flows much better than the others. if you spend like 60 and get a highperformance stainless steal one then mabe, but no filter should change the starting of the quad or performance really.

[MtnEX]

I have a noise at cold start and I'm in the process of eliminating possibilties.


I might be better off going from the 20w50 to 15w50 or 10w40 first, ruling out the oil, then the filter. It would actually be way easier too.... I just hate to waste the 20w50 that's in it if that's not it.

[MtnEX]

Well, I was out and about later this afternoon and motorcycle oil is more readily available than motorcycle filters at that time of day (except Fram filters). So I just decided to try the oil first, as much as I hate to waste good Mobil 1.

I picked up a couple of quarts of Valvoline ATV 10w40. I know it's not supposed to be near the quality of oil the Mobil 1 is. But it puts me back to dino fluids and the viscosity is lower, particularly at normal start temperatures (104 & under). A 105 v/s 130

Costs me $8 to find out... costs me more for wasting oil if that leads nowhere I guess.

[big95xj]

Not to steal your thread but i have always been told that you cant run synthetics in these things...is this true or was i miss told? Stock vs. aftermarket clutch? That is the reason they give me is that it will destroy the clutch. I really want to try royal purple but im kind of scared too...

Thanks Bryant

[justin1022]

who ever told you that mis understood you can run synthetics only place your not supost to run them is in quads with atumatic clutches it makes the plates slip. and mtnex i would just put a regular one in... there isnt really a diffrence.

[boosted3g]

There are only 2 filters that i know of that are not of paper media. There is the 45 dollar stainless reusable one and there is mobil 1. Mobil 1 uses some sort of sytetic media. I personally like the factory honda filters and change them after every 2 rides with the oil. Amzoil 10-40, stock filter and no problems yet.

[big95xj]

Cool thanks!

[MtnEX]

Originally posted by big95xj
Not to steal your thread but i have always been told that you cant run synthetics in these things...is this true or was i miss told? Stock vs. aftermarket clutch? That is the reason they give me is that it will destroy the clutch. I really want to try royal purple but im kind of scared too...

Thanks Bryant

First hand experience, I went from dino to synthetic in my quad and noticed a big difference in it. I don't buy too big into the synthetic hype, but this is one application where I could actually see a difference.

Despite the new noise I have, my motor feels better and my tranny feels much much better. The clutch actually seems to grab better to me, and the smoothness of the trans is a lot better. My left toe likes the synthetic.

Until I figure out different, I'd recommend a synthetic 10w40 motorcycle oil in the 400EX.

[MtnEX]

To add additional information here.....


The only reason I'm considering these things is in a process of elimination.

I picked up a tap/slap/clack/knock right after an oil change. Also it really does have that sound to it like something is not getting oil. You know, the knock you get from a car with the wrong oil on a cold morning.... except this is a very-very singular sounding like it's coming from one part. It does this on fresh startup and goes away after the engine gets hot.

I did not automatically assume it was the new oil or filter, and I have been over several other items that I ruled out before ending up back here to this point. I figured it wasn't likely related, but maybe it is....


Now, in discussing it with people I have heard many different schools of thought....

These quads spec for 10w40 or 20w50... (I like 20w50) ... so either should be just fine. They really should.

But some seem to think since it goes away when hot that it might be oil circulation... tight filter, or the 20w50.

Some seem to think maybe the oil pump has some age and it's time to back down on viscosity. Others seem to think the 20w50 should cause higher oil pressure if anything.

One even suggested to me that the engine may have a little wear somewhere in the bottom end, and since the synthetic is supposed to be so much better, that I am getting a little "slop noise" from a wristpin or something because the piston is stroking more easily on the slicker oil film.

I figure any of it could be a possibility... I don't know.
But a good way to find out is switching to dino 10w40.

I "may" put a little Seafoam in the Mobil 1 and run it briefly before drain to see if I flush anything out too. May as well I guess while I am at it.

[78ta]

Just a thought,

Could it be piston slap? Worn piston a little loose in the bore until it runs a bit and heats it up enough to expand piston enough to quiet down the noise.


Does the bike smoke any?

i think everything makes more noise until its warmed up. i dont think its your oil or lack of oil because of a higher weight

[MtnEX]

Originally posted by 78ta
Just a thought,

Could it be piston slap? Worn piston a little loose in the bore until it runs a bit and heats it up enough to expand piston enough to quiet down the noise.


Does the bike smoke any?

I've never ruled out piston slap completely. It was actually my first thought, because when it started was the coldest start I had ever done.

The only reason I doubt it's piston slap is because when the bike starts to warm I can make the noise go away with the right blip of the throttle, and other times I have heard the noise come and go - come and go on it's own before finally just going away.


I have seen the bike smoke. But I was not able to tell for sure if it was oil smoke or not... didn't smell like dino oil smoke... but then it has synthetic in it. This is another reason I bought dino oil to check for this.


The engine may well be due for a rebuild, either major or minor. I'm trying to figure this out myself and rather it will be major or minor... and how deep I want to go into it regardless.

I have no idea what kind of cost I'm looking at either.
I might just want to replace it with a reverse engine for a newer EX.

[monkeyballs]

where do you get those frigen stainless steal oil filters! I was looking on the internet and I cant finde them.. They sound pretty sweet.

[MtnEX]

Originally posted by FoxHondaRider
i think everything makes more noise until its warmed up. i dont think its your oil or lack of oil because of a higher weight

Yeah, that it true about the noise... but it was not present before.
Not this noise.

May well not be the oil... may be mechanical. Hopefully I will find time to change it out tomorrow and see.

[78ta]

without being able to listen to it in person I can't help out mutch. but it really does sound like piston slap to me. If it is burning a little oil I would def say that is what it is.

I rebuilt one that I bought for my wife to ride that had a very similar noise. It would make light knocking noise when idleing cold, if i blipped the throttle it would go away for a bit sometimes, and once it got up to operating temp, like 10 minutes of idleing or 5 or so minutes of riding it would completely go away.

I don't think your noise has anything to do with going to a thicker syn oil. syn oil can make some engines a little more noisy than the allready are, but normally its minor and the noise usually heat related meaning it gets worse as it gets hotter not the other way around.

my wifes bike when listening to it with a stethascope sounded like the noise was coming from the exhaust side of the cylinder kind of in the middle of the cylinder.


just my 2 cents

i would think synthetic oil would make less motor noise because everything is so slick and so much smoother

[78ta]

I'm not an expert at syn oil, but I have noticed when switching from dino to syn oil in car/truck engines sometimes they make a little more noise once they warm up, seems like the noise is valve train related

granted I never switched to a thicker syn oil, just use the same grade of oil ie 10w30 dino to 10w30 syn.

just as a guess i think the same grade syn oil may actually be a good bit thinner than the same grade dino oil and that may be why I was hearing a little more valve train noise.

[hornetgod13]

Originally posted by monkeyballs
where do you get those frigen stainless steal oil filters! I was looking on the internet and I cant finde them.. They sound pretty sweet.

I've been running a Scott's Stainless Steel Reusable Filter now for nearly 2 years with no issues. Cost $70.00, easy to clean, and lasts a life time.

Here's a link to more info and a place to purchase.
http://www.scottsperformance.com/products.php?PartType=3

[78ta]

I've been running a Scott's Stainless Steel Reusable Filter now for nearly 2 years with no issues. Cost $70.00, easy to clean, and lasts a life time.

not trying to hijack this thread, but that filter sounds really good, do you know of any engine builders running them? I would like to know what the think about them

[MtnEX]

Originally posted by 78ta
without being able to listen to it in person I can't help out mutch. but it really does sound like piston slap to me. If it is burning a little oil I would def say that is what it is.

I rebuilt one that I bought for my wife to ride that had a very similar noise. It would make light knocking noise when idleing cold, if i blipped the throttle it would go away for a bit sometimes, and once it got up to operating temp, like 10 minutes of idleing or 5 or so minutes of riding it would completely go away.

I don't think your noise has anything to do with going to a thicker syn oil. syn oil can make some engines a little more noisy than the allready are, but normally its minor and the noise usually heat related meaning it gets worse as it gets hotter not the other way around.

my wifes bike when listening to it with a stethascope sounded like the noise was coming from the exhaust side of the cylinder kind of in the middle of the cylinder.


just my 2 cents

What was wrong with the wife's bike?

I'm asking because I tried the wooden stethescope thing and though it's amazing what I can hear, I can't really pin-point where this singular clack/knock sound is coming from. It could very well be that I can't due to the location of my Yoshi header pipe. I have dual pipes running across that area.

[MtnEX]

Originally posted by 78ta
not trying to hijack this thread, but that filter sounds really good, do you know of any engine builders running them? I would like to know what the think about them

:mad: See how mad I am? :cuss:

Jus kiddin :D


That's a weak attempt at a hijack too... this was originally an oil filter thread anyways.


I'm glad someone likes cleaning stainless filters.
I like throwing the dirty mess away and popping in a clean one.
I guess that will cost me more in the long run though.

[78ta]

What was wrong with the wife's bike?

worn piston, bike had a lot of hard hours on it before i got it. I measured piston to wall clearance once I took it apart and had about .010 clearance...it is supposed to be a lot less than that.

I had it bored .040 or 1mm over, new wiseco 10:1 piston and good as new.....for a few hours, then the crankshaft started to give up, its now coming back apart for a new crank

[MtnEX]

Originally posted by 78ta
worn piston, bike had a lot of hard hours on it before i got it. I measured piston to wall clearance once I took it apart and had about .010 clearance...it is supposed to be a lot less than that.

I had it bored .040 or 1mm over, new wiseco 10:1 piston and good as new.....for a few hours, then the crankshaft started to give up, its now coming back apart for a new crank

Ouch... that hurts... sounds like some of the luck I have had in the past with other things. So I will be thinking hard about getting a reverse engine.


I would not mind any of this at all if I had the time, the place and the tools to just do it myself. I'd tear it down, do all the work and do it right, then put it back together and forget about it.

It's hard to get stuff done right... heck my jetting isn't even right now.

[78ta]

reverse engine would be cool, but just remember if your buying used from ebay or where ever, you may end up in the same boat or worse than your allready in.

if you decide your noise is piston slap, the best and cheapest route is to have this engine rebuilt. plus it would be a good excuse to upgrade a few parts a long the way.

If this engine has a lot of hard use I would def recomend a new crank too...

One must if you rebuild this one is a heavy duty timing chain, one from a crf450 dirtbike, they are like $40. cheap insurance. A new cam chain tensioner would be a good idea also. If the piston is worn out so is the timing chain.

[78ta]

just curious, where are you located?

[MtnEX]

North Carolina... I need to plug that in I guess...


Rebuilding a little engine like this ought to not cost much at all, done up right all the way... parts and labor.

But I already know that's a gas if getting it done by a local bike shop. The labor charge will be crazy and the labor quality will be questionable.

[MtnEX]

Well, I have a rather interesting update... rather strange actually...


For one, I did change the oil to the Valvoline ATV 10w40.
I pulled the oil filter, and put it back in during the drain.
I also tried to pull the oil strainer at the tank...
It would not come loose, I was afraid of damaging the tank.

I put it all back together, fired it up, etc..

So far I have done 2 cold start tests, and the noise has not returned.

During the first cold start, it sounded like I had no noise out of the ordinary, but after it ran a while and got hot, I did hear a sudden reduction in noise.

After 2 starts with the dino oil, in my opinion I can hear more of the typical valve ticking noise you'd expect to hear, but not the one sharp noise I had. So the synthetic does seem to hush the valvetrain some.

As far as smoke, it's there, it's black, and so far I don't think it's oil smoke. It doesn't have the oil burn stink. I know I'm running rich, so I think it's flood/choke smoke. At one point I also caught fuel leaking out the bottom tube off the carb at the bowl. I guess I have a float sticking or a problem with the needle.

I'm going to do another cold start check today... and I hope that all goes well again with the noise... but I still have this uneasy feeling....

[78ta]

give it a break for the rest of the day and start it up in the morning when it is the coolest outside. My piston slap noise would only show up after the bike had set overnight and for the first start of the day.

compression check would be a good idea also, and a leak down check while your at would be good too.


best of luck

[MtnEX]

Yeah, that's what I have done, and all I have done with it over the course of this week.

I wish someone could have heard what it sounded like both ways. Now it is like the wierdest thing... like I said earlier, there is a cold engine noise to it, but you can't realize there was one until it gets hot and silences out. I mean it sounds fine, and then it gets quieter and smoother all at once when it gets to that majic temperature.

[MtnEX]

I put up a video in another thread of what it actually sounds like.
Check it out...

http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=364729