Elka VS Stock 450R

[BM@Ronayers]

Can anyone tell me if the Elka Recreational Shocks are better than the stock 450R shocks. I do more XC than MX. The Rec. shocks are the low line Elkas.

Thanks

[Scro]

They will be better than your stockers. But if you were to send them out to GT Thunder or C&D Racing and have them setup for your weight, then there will be a world of difference between them and your stockers.

[400exrider707]

Send your stockers to C&D racing, and they will outperform almost any elka you can buy.

[godzilla]

Originally posted by 400exrider707
Send your stockers to C&D racing, and they will outperform almost any elka you can buy.

:rolleyes:

[Scro]

Originally posted by godzilla
:rolleyes:

It's what's on the inside that counts.:rolleyes: :rolleyes: And the internal setup you would get from GT or C&D will be much better and more rider-specific than what Elka would send you. Elka's shocks are too generic.

[godzilla]

Originally posted by Scro
It's what's on the inside that counts.:rolleyes: :rolleyes: And the internal setup you would get from GT or C&D will be much better and more rider-specific than what Elka would send you. Elka's shocks are too generic.

So I suppose you work for Elka? You seem to be quite knowledgable about how they are built...

[Scro]

Nope but I do know that they're valving is not up to speed. I've rode LT Elka's setup by Elka for me (supposedly), LT Axis setup by Axis for me, and stockers that were reworked for somebody close to my weight.

The Axis and stockers were a world of difference over the Elka's. I'm now riding Axis reworked by Laz, and couldn't ask for anything better.

I'm not saying they are built poorly, I just believe that Elka is worried about selling quantity instead of quality.

[Colby@C&DRacing]

Originally posted by godzilla
So I suppose you work for Elka? You seem to be quite knowledgable about how they are built...

We revalve shocks everyday and he is right it is whats on the inside that counts. You buy a prebuilt shock thats what you get a basic setup. Some shock designs have limitations but a good tuner can fix that.

[godzilla]

Originally posted by Colby@C&DRacing
We revalve shocks everyday and he is right it is whats on the inside that counts. You buy a prebuilt shock thats what you get a basic setup. Some shock designs have limitations but a good tuner can fix that.

So what you are saying is that Elka has shocks sitting on the shelf ready to ship at a moments notice?

[godzilla]

Originally posted by Scro
Nope but I do know that they're valving is not up to speed. I've rode LT Elka's setup by Elka for me (supposedly), LT Axis setup by Axis for me, and stockers that were reworked for somebody close to my weight.

The Axis and stockers were a world of difference over the Elka's. I'm now riding Axis reworked by Laz, and couldn't ask for anything better.

I'm not saying they are built poorly, I just believe that Elka is worried about selling quantity instead of quality.

but you still had to have your Axis shock re-worked...

[Scro]

That's correct, I did have my Axis reworked. But, the valving that I recieved from Axis was that much better than what I recieved from Elka.

Back to the original post - The recreational series shocks have no adjustment (except for preload). Your stockers have compression, rebound, and preload.

If you got your stockers revalved, you would have a better ride and more adjustability, for probably less money. Seems like a given to me.

[godzilla]

Originally posted by Scro
That's correct, I did have my Axis reworked. But, the valving that I recieved from Axis was that much better than what I recieved from Elka.

In what way? why did you have it rebuilt if it was so good?

[coryatver]

I had elka fronts and now have gt thunder rebuilds and the rebuilds are 10 times better than the elka's. The recreation shocks also turn into pogo sticks during hard riding as they heat up.

[Scro]

The Elka's just weren't setup right. For one thing, I bought into their quad-rate gimmick. Any shock builder will probably tell you that a quad-rate setup is not any better than triple-rate.

The front-end pushed in the corner no matter how much I adjusted them. The ride was bearable at higher speeds, but riding at slower speeds it was like riding a log wagon. The rear-end was way too soft - constantly bottoming out.

I bought my Axis at the beginning of my C-class year. I'm now running at the front of the B-class, and they were just too soft to handle the abuse I was dishing out:devil:

[godzilla]

Originally posted by coryatver
I had elka fronts and now have gt thunder rebuilds and the rebuilds are 10 times better than the elka's

good for you, but why are they better?

I just find it interesting that so many people who bought Elka's years ago swore by them and now all of a sudden, they are crap. It seems like the trend in the industry is to love a product one year, and the next shoot it down...and most of these comments are coming from riders who dont know their arse from their elbow when it comes to truly understanding suspension tuning. They figure the valving has to be spot on or else they suck without even taking the time to play with them and try to adjust them properly. I have seen this first hand enough times to make me want to vomit.

...and its even worse when a dealer posts on here about how bad a product is when we all know that he will sell whatever makes him more margin, or whichever company rep kisses his *** more.

[coryatver]

People have always been saying the same thing about elkas ever since they came out. They have good shock bodies but there valving is horrible.

And to the guy that asked if he thought they have them right on the self yes they pretty much do that is how you can get them so fast. If you order custom axis it takes at least a year becuase they are actually custom. Even people that are sponsored by elka and race you will see that they have different colored springs becuase they have gotten them resprung and revalved by somewhere else. The guy is comparing the Recreation elkas and they do not have any adjustment at all so you are stuck with whatever valving you get.

The GT thunder rebuilds I have are better in every way they take the big hits better, the small bumps, and don't fade.

[Scro]

Valving is what makes a shock work! If it's not spot on, you're not going to get the best performance no matter how much you "play with them"

Bottom line - I'm going to ride what works best for me. I know quite a bit about shock adjustments and how they make a shock react in certain situations. I could never get the Elka's adjusted to my liking so I moved on to a better product. I find it hard to believe that you've even rode stockers that have been revalved by a shock builder that knows what they are doing, such as Colby.

[godzilla]

Originally posted by Scro
The Elka's just weren't setup right. For one thing, I bought into their quad-rate gimmick. Any shock builder will probably tell you that a quad-rate setup is not any better than triple-rate.

explain this. What would they say?


I bought my Axis at the beginning of my C-class year. I'm now running at the front of the B-class, and they were just too soft to handle the abuse I was dishing out:devil:

dishing out abuse at a district B and C level? Wow...Im impressed. I am sure "any shock builder" would take your expert shock building advice very seriously.

With all due respect to youre riding abilities, it seems that if anything, you have jumped the Elka bashing bandwagon because your friends do it to...and that is fine if it makes you happy. But if anything, you spent twice the amount of money on suspension than most people when you probably didnt have to.

[godzilla]

Originally posted by coryatver


And to the guy that asked if he thought they have them right on the self yes they pretty much do that is how you can get them so fast. .

You have been to their shop? You have seen this for yourself?

[godzilla]

Originally posted by Scro
Valving is what makes a shock work! If it's not spot on, you're not going to get the best performance no matter how much you "play with them"

Bottom line - I'm going to ride what works best for me. I know quite a bit about shock adjustments and how they make a shock react in certain situations. I could never get the Elka's adjusted to my liking so I moved on to a better product. I find it hard to believe that you've even rode stockers that have been revalved by a shock builder that knows what they are doing, such as Colby.

I have my own unbiased and objective opinion about Colby, but I am not here to bash him...I am trying to prove a point which if this continues, you might just understand.

[Scro]

If I were a shock builder I would explain. But since I'm not (never said I was), I won't. It's irrelevant to the topic.

I'll never get your point, because I know what works for me and it wasn't Elka...period.

Believe me, I wasn't trying to impress you...no need in that. Just saying that as I got faster I needed a stiffer suspension.

Like I said before, I ride what works best for me. No bandwagon here.

I believe I've contributed to the greater good of this thread...hopefully the original poster can weed through all the BS.

[Pappy]

Originally posted by godzilla
I have my own unbiased and objective opinion about Colby, but I am not here to bash him...I am trying to prove a point which if this continues, you might just understand.

Seems you are pushing your point but failing to actually make one...make it already:p

One thing I have seen is that the rise in BETTER shock service from companies like C&D and Derisi/GTT over the last 4 or 5 years. They have learned more, developed more for the stcok rebuilds and this has shown a great closing of the gap between lower level aftermarket and rebuilds and to some extent even some top of the line shocks on the market.

We as riders have also learned more about what we like in a shock as information flows and we become better informed. And if a better thing comes out in a year I would expect those that do alot of riding or racing to try that set up and they just may like it better...imagine that:p Just look at freestyle, 5 years ago there wasnt anyone doing anything specific for it, nor were there rebuildable stock shocks (fronts) or anyone doing much past standard revalve/re oil /re-spring work on shocks. Now you can take a stock set of fronts and have them built to preform as well as most average aftermarket for less cost.

And its no secret Elka has base valving at the popular weights ready to add springs, this is public knowledge and has been for several years. Its their business model, its their design and its up to the customer to decide if it works best for them.

[godzilla]

Originally posted by Pappy
Seems you are pushing your point but failing to actually make one...make it already:p

One thing I have seen is that the rise in BETTER shock service from companies like C&D and Derisi/GTT over the last 4 or 5 years. They have learned more, developed more for the stcok rebuilds and this has shown a great closing of the gap between lower level aftermarket and rebuilds and to some extent even some top of the line shocks on the market.

We as riders have also learned more about what we like in a shock as information flows and we become better informed. And if a better thing comes out in a year I would expect those that do alot of riding or racing to try that set up and they just may like it better...imagine that:p Just look at freestyle, 5 years ago there wasnt anyone doing anything specific for it, nor were there rebuildable stock shocks (fronts) or anyone doing much past standard revalve/re oil /re-spring work on shocks. Now you can take a stock set of fronts and have them built to preform as well as most average aftermarket for less cost.

And its no secret Elka has base valving at the popular weights ready to add springs, this is public knowledge and has been for several years. Its their business model, its their design and its up to the customer to decide if it works best for them.

Pappy,

With all due respect to you as I know you have been around the industry for quite some time...but you are not 100% acurate on Elka's business model.

I understand your point concerning the evolution of suspension, but the point I was trying to make is that if you people are going to come on to this forum and make statements about a manufacturer...whether it be suspension, tires, a-arms, etc...they need to make sure that they have done their homework and state facts...not opinions. The original poster was looking for an objective answer, and didnt get anything close to it. If you are gonna say that something is not good, state concrete examples and facts as to why. Its not too much to as, is it?

I have no problem with people not liking Elka, but I do have a problem with people not liking them with no objective reason as to why. There may be a very simple answer as to why the shocks werent working right for his application. If he is racing and buys recreational shocks, maybe his expectations are not realistic?

[Pappy]

I geuss then the same could be said with regards to you stating that Elka doesnt have shelf shocks waiting to be sprung, because as an Elka dealer I have been asked to stock shocks that will cover the most popular weights and if needed other springs would be sent, leading me to fully believe that this is how the shock orders are processed! If this isnt 100% true, I would suffice to say its well with in the range of being a correct statement. With that said, we have had mixed results with Elka sending us a shock that worked as well as we expected, and most times opt to send them directly to a builder to have them revalved in a way that is opposite of what Elka sends us. Can I describe every detail as to what the builder does? Nope, Im not a shock builder, but I can tell you how the shock preforms whether that be good or bad. And yes, I have relayed my thoughts to Elka. We still support Elka, but we also know that there are other options available and we will use what we feel best gets us to our intended goal, whether that be a rebuilt stocker or the highest end shock we can afford by any brand manufacture who can meet our timeline.

And an opinion can mean so much more then pure fact when it comes to how one percieves how a product works, my intrest would lean more towards what the rider has expierence with over the technical explination one may or may not be able to give.

You make 3 different brands shocks appear identical, and hide the brand from the rider and they should be able to tell you what they prefer after riding with them....maybe not fully why they prefer other then ride quality but in the end, this is priority #1 for 99% of the riders!


BTW...your comment on the dealer using whoever kisses his *** is a pathetic statement. I do not know who you are, but IMO, a comment like that, when you want to hold others to some rule about posting disclosed info, has no place in a decent conversation. Many times a dealer will opt to use a supplier who works with them, handles issues fairly and will supply parts needed without hesitation. You posting such a statement without fact negates your interest in a fair play format where by all information is released to others in a factual manner only with opinion left out of the reply.

[godzilla]

Originally posted by Pappy
I geuss then the same could be said with regards to you stating that Elka doesnt have shelf shocks waiting to be sprung, because as an Elka dealer I have been asked to stock shocks that will cover the most popular weights and if needed other springs would be sent, leading me to fully believe that this is how the shock orders are processed! If this isnt 100% true, I would suffice to say its well with in the range of being a correct statement. With that said, we have had mixed results with Elka sending us a shock that worked as well as we expected, and most times opt to send them directly to a builder to have them revalved in a way that is opposite of what Elka sends us. Can I describe every detail as to what the builder does? Nope, Im not a shock builder, but I can tell you how the shock preforms whether that be good or bad. And yes, I have relayed my thoughts to Elka.

And an opinion can mean so much more then pure fact when it comes to how one percieves how a product works, my intrest would lean more towards what the rider has expierence with over the technical explination one may or may not be able to give.

You make 3 different brands shocks appear identical, and hide the brand from the rider and they should be able to tell you what they prefer after riding with them....maybe not fully why they prefer other then ride quality but in the end, this is priority #1 for 99% of the riders!


BTW...your comment on the dealer using whoever kisses his *** is a pathetic statement. I do not know who you are, but IMO, a comment like that, when you want to hold others to some rule about posting disclosed info, has no place in a decent conversation. Many times a dealer will opt to use a supplier who works with them, handles issues fairly and will supply parts needed without hesitation. You posting such a statement without fact negates your interest in a fair play format where by all information is released to others in a factual manner only with opinion left out of the reply.

The rider/ customer has the right to prefer whatever product they want, but all I am asking is to be objective when people are asking for advice. To say a product is no good "just because" does not help anybody.

As as for my "dealer " comment, they are founded on my experience in dealing with them on many levels...and if you personally Pappy do not conduct your business that way, than I applaud you. Unfortunately, many of your competitors are not as loyal and fair to their suppliers in this industry as you are . I respect the fact that you are defending potential business aquaintances, but my staement is justified. I did not disclose any specific information at all about my business with any one specific dealer and am more than mature enough to know better than to.

[Pappy]

I wholeheartedly agree with being objective, and I do not disagree with what you have posted, but the reality is that there are so many variables and different levels of riders out there that a blanket statement of what works best just doesnt exist. Ive had shocks that felt great at first, then as I rode faster they started to feel horrible...wasnt the shock, I was out riding what they were originally set up for. (Ive always claimed to be 100% honest with your builder/shock company about your riding skills)

People are looking for a magic bullet to help them pick the best for their dollar, and if its a slighted response they tend to know it. Some I feel just want to throw their 2 cents in just to make themselves feel better about spending $1395 on a set of shocks when a $750 rebuild will preform as well:eek2:

To each their own I geuss:p

[godzilla]

Originally posted by Pappy
I wholeheartedly agree with being objective, and I do not disagree with what you have posted, but the reality is that there are so many variables and different levels of riders out there that a blanket statement of what works best just doesnt exist.

I completely agree...and that is why I think it is difficult for any suspension manufacturer to get it right every time, all the time. There are so many variables.


Ive always claimed to be 100% honest with your builder/shock company about your riding skills .

Part of the problem may be that not enough peolpe are completely honest...


To each their own I geuss:p

Indeed.

[k4f5x0r]

i liked that dicussion :D . both of you proved very good points but i seem to side with pappy a bit more. i understand zilla's point of view because most of the people on the forum who do purchase suspension tend to say "yes it worked great for what i do". I think if everyone would state what they use them for, what weight they were valved for, what shock/company, what QUAD, the front end of the quad( A arms brand, length, long travel etc) and what preload/compression/rebound they were set for(if it applies to that shock) it would make suspension choosing much smoother for a majority of the people.

maybe a topic for all of the riders sticky'd to the top of this page to post what i explained above would help these questions.


Also to the starter of this thread, i would recomend you to go for stock revalves. as many other posted they are rebound/compression/preload adjustable and the low line of Elka's are not. C&D racing can valve them into your weight and then you can set the three adjustable's to WHATEVER you want. its also a fraction of the price of the Elka's.


this is based on my opinion and from reading numerous topics on this and other forums. i have not ridden any valved or aftermarket shocks i just happen to be extremely bored and tend to sit on the computer and read up on alot of those topics. :macho

[godzilla]

Originally posted by k4f5x0r
Also to the starter of this thread, i would recomend you to go for stock revalves. as many other posted they are rebound/compression/preload adjustable and the low line of Elka's are not. C&D racing can valve them into your weight and then you can set the three adjustable's to WHATEVER you want. its also a fraction of the price of the Elka's.

Very good answer. This is the type of advice that people would benefit from rather than " dont buy Elka, they suck" type of answers we mostly see here.

good on ya.

;)

[k4f5x0r]

thanks man. i guess reading up on alot of these topics really help with your overall knowledge of the atv's. i just wish i had half the money you guys have so i could actually use everything i know about it :p

[godzilla]

It is indeed important to read up and get informed, and forums can be a great way to do so...but you have to pick and choose who you are going to take advice from. Some of the things I read on here make me cringe, and the original poster ands up being more confused than ever.

if i'm rich i want to get Elka elites and have them rebuilt so they are custom, i love the Elka colors but hate their prices for what you get. For the money I dont even thing its worth getting Elka because they arent exactly cheap and they are deffinately not the best performing from the company. I say get 450r fronts rebuilt or get HLS. Custom shocks are the way to go and rebuilt stock shocks and HLS are pretty cheap for what you get out of them. The day my shocks go off in a box to get rebuilt I will have like a party lol I cant wait for that day to have the money to send them out so I can beat my quad and go faster because i will have better suspension

[godzilla]

Originally posted by FoxHondaRider
if i'm rich i want to get Elka elites and have them rebuilt so they are custom, i love the Elka colors but hate their prices for what you get. For the money I dont even thing its worth getting Elka because they arent exactly cheap and they are deffinately not the best performing from the company. I say get 450r fronts rebuilt or get HLS. Custom shocks are the way to go and rebuilt stock shocks and HLS are pretty cheap for what you get out of them. The day my shocks go off in a box to get rebuilt I will have like a party lol I cant wait for that day to have the money to send them out so I can beat my quad and go faster because i will have better suspension

You are the perect example of the point I am trying to prove:


[For the money I dont even thing its worth getting Elka because they arent exactly cheap and they are deffinately not the best performing from the company.

Have you EVER riden Elka's ? what are you basing this on? Public opinion?! and then you add:


I cant wait for that day to have the money to send them out so I can beat my quad and go faster because i will have better suspension


Oh brother...:rolleyes:

Just to let you know I have ridden 450r fronts because thats whats on my quad and I have ridden Elka rec shocks and their lower end piggyback shocks. They are better than stock no doubt but not worth the money to me. So dont say i havent tried them because i have. I have also ridden Works shocks. If your going to spend $350 or $400 on non resevoir shocks you might as well buy 450r shocks and have them sent out performing the way they do

[godzilla]

Originally posted by FoxHondaRider
Just to let you know I have ridden 450r fronts because thats whats on my quad and I have ridden Elka rec shocks and their lower end piggyback shocks. They are better than stock no doubt but not worth the money to me. So dont say i havent tried them because i have. I have also ridden Works shocks. If your going to spend $350 or $400 on non resevoir shocks you might as well buy 450r shocks and have them sent out performing the way they do

And the Elka's you rode were yours? on your quad?

Originally posted by godzilla
And the Elka's you rode were yours? on your quad?

no they were not but they were valved in the same weight. they were good and better than stock like I said but I would not fork over that much money for them when they are not the best and are not exactly cheap.

[ricksmx865]

Originally posted by k4f5x0r
Also to the starter of this thread, i would recomend you to go for stock revalves. as many other posted they are rebound/compression/preload adjustable and the low line of Elka's are not. C&D racing can valve them into your weight and then you can set the three adjustable's to WHATEVER you want. its also a fraction of the price of the Elka's.



Originally posted by godzilla
Very good answer. This is the type of advice that people would benefit from rather than " dont buy Elka, they suck" type of answers we mostly see here.

good on ya.

;)


weird isnt that what scro was getting at?? hahaha

[k4f5x0r]

well i guess we think alike :D . well that is the main reason. i didnt mean to repeat it but i guess i tried to make it a bit clearer.

[KingpinsEx]

First off before I am possibly attacked for this statement for elka "bshig", I have owned elka's in the past and did like them. For what I was using them for, fast trail riding, they performed excellent without a revalve. They were not the rec series and had compression,rebound, and ride height adjustments to fine tune them.

However if you honestly believe Elkas aren't generically sprung and want some solid "proof" take a look in any motosport catalog or online. Next to their elka shocks it states, "In stock for 175-200 lb weight range and 200-225 lb weight range. Speical orders avaiable for all other weights". Now i would imagine that this is the same way they deal with most if not all other elka dealers. So Godzilla you are gonna say that the ones they have in stock that I order for one of those weight ranges that they have already shelfed are gonna be setup for my specific riding conditions,style, and a-arms, when I order them? I think not. :rolleyes:

[godzilla]

Originally posted by KingpinsEx
First off before I am possibly attacked for this statement for elka "bshig", I have owned elka's in the past and did like them. For what I was using them for, fast trail riding, they performed excellent without a revalve. They were not the rec series and had compression,rebound, and ride height adjustments to fine tune them.

However if you honestly believe Elkas aren't generically sprung and want some solid "proof" take a look in any motosport catalog or online.

PM me a link.

[LeGaCyGiAnT124]

Why do you guys keep argueing about which shock brand is better? I haven't rode anything but works so they are the best :o Elka seems like a mid range shock for the money but defiantly not the best. I have read about Axis and they seem the way to go for XC riding as well as Ohlins. PEP and Fox seem to be the MX shock.

[mc_racer]

I have riden Elkas and revalves on an 86 250r. First I had Elkas, then switched to 450r fronts redone by C&D.
Nothing else was changed on the bike, both sets were set the same, 210 lbs, "B" class XC.
I could ride more comfortable and confidently at a faster pace with the revalves.
So, I recommend the revalves over the Elkas.