Outlaw or TRX700?

[08525IRS]

Has anyone raced one or rode the honda? Curious because my dealer said they can get me a good deal on a 08. I want the IRS, so either the 09 outlaw or new trx700. Any idea which is quickest??

[bossman525]

in last months issue of DIRT YAMAHA, they tested the outlaw, the honda and the raptor. the outlaw is by far the fastest, coming from the article and from personal expierence

[Colby@C&DRacing]

The 700xx has a lot of power but is way to heavy of a machine for me I would choose the outlaw if you want a powerful machine with IRS.

[somewon]

I believe the magazine is called Yama wheels. :)

[08525IRS]

Yea hands down I would want an outlaw over a honda700...what bothers me is the fact that I just went to kbb.com and did the trade in value for the 2008 honda trx700, polaris outlaw525, and the raptor 700.


08 Honda TRX700 - Trade-In Value (Good Condition)
$4875



08 Polaris Outlaw 525 S Trade-In Value (Good Condition)
$3885



08 Raptor 700RTrade-In Value (Good Condition)
$3955


the honda is by far worth more...only reason I ask is because I am getting tired of waiting for my 09 outlaw which I should have MID OCTOBER... oh well I have a honda 450 as my loaner from the dealer.

This weekend I am racing my 06 honda 450 which has a nice pipe against my buddy's 07 525 stock irs... I will post results after this weekend.

[rundrave]

when the tires go bald on the honda 700 where are you gonna find a replacement?

i dont know of any aftermarket tires that will fit it.

[katch26]

trade in value doesnt mean everything cause its based on units in circulation being the first year run the quantities are limited and if the demand in the same on all 3 models and the supply (700xx) is lower than it will trade in higher......plus the outlaw just came out with an updated look in 09. Look at the cavalier the trade is was soooo bad because of the amount of them on the road they changed the name to the cobalt and trade is in back up.


who cares about trade in anyways because none of these things hold value very well anyways lol

[Colby@C&DRacing]

When it is time for tires you will have to switch to a 10" or 12" rim to get tires.

[katch26]

Originally posted by 08525IRS
Yea hands down I would want an outlaw over a honda700...what bothers me is the fact that I just went to kbb.com and did the trade in value for the 2008 honda trx700, polaris outlaw525, and the raptor 700.


08 Honda TRX700 - Trade-In Value (Good Condition)
$4875

7899 - new

08 Polaris Outlaw 525 S Trade-In Value (Good Condition)

$3885

7399 - new
08 Raptor 700RTrade-In Value (Good Condition)

$3955

7599 - new

the honda is by far worth more...

so the difference in trade in is roughly 500 bucks when you take into the fact that the list on the 700xx is higher.......being a first year model chances are the suggested price is what you actually pay where as the other 2 chances are you would actually pay less

[katch26]

hey colby I heard that a 10" rim on the 700xx wasnt even possible....any truth?

[Colby@C&DRacing]

it is possible hopefully in a couple of months

[stoopidbot]

No a 10" rim is not possible on the rear of the 700xx. Has to do with the angles of the boots.

[nytfr8]

Trade in value on an ATV. To me thats pretty funny, I'm curently on my 6th machine in 8 years and as hard as I ride them and as much time as I put on them after about 10-20 hour I would estimate the value of them to be about $100. If there is a worry about trade in value the only way I can think to help it maintain value is buy one park, it in the garage and when your buddies come over to drink beer start it up, rev it a few times and then tell them how fast it is. LOL That is exactly how my neighbor has been with his TRX450, I think he has only put on about 15 hours in 2 years. My buddies and I go at least 3 days a week and put on approx 10-15 hours a week, every time I ask him to go (which is every time) he tells me that we ride them way to hard and he does'nt want to scratch his machine and lower the value. Long story short, why worry about the trade in value of a toy.

[08525IRS]

I agree, was just curious why the honda was worth more. The only reason I asked was because a guy I met last night was bragging out fuel injected is the way to go yada yada I just wanted to get some facts for the next time we meet.


On the other hand, i will be waiting till October for the 09 outlaw IRS!! From what I have learned, the outlaw will POOP in the honda700..

[nytfr8]

The fuel injection is nice but once you get the jetting spot on and get comfortable changing it, jets are quite a bit cheaper than a fuel injection control module. I think you will be very happy with the Outlaw.

[suprdavtn]

not even close for toooo many reasons to say, outlaw.

[redskins134]

(just got the new dritwheels today) "the handa is a little faster than the outlaw but the handleing is so crappy that dirtwheels said that the outlaw is better

[rgasper33]

raced one on my outlaw S... I had him pretty handly.. i think it would have gotten me top end... maybe this is what dirt wheels was talkin bout

[vtt]

At 389 lbs, the Outlaw is a sport quad, not the TRX at more than470 lbs.
Outlaw for too many reasons. Read the magazines, you'll understand.

[suprdavtn]

470lbs? one of the teams weighed it at 550lbs. I have not weighed mine but would be curious as to its real #. cant believe the honda is so heavy but from lifting it from the rear and front it feels like my ds650 to me.

[dcc1089]

I got to ride a 700xx the other day....not impressed. The torque felt nice, but it seemed to fall flat in the upper RPM like a stock raptor 700. On the other hand, my wife's King Quad 700 handled better. It was a challenge to take turns fast. The dang thing pushes in turns no matter how hard you ride. The rear end felt sloppy too. It seems like the sway bar isn;t even there. Body roll is a given. Compared to an outlaw, Yama-wheels actually got this review right. It handled like a stick of butter on a hot frying pan, but the engine felt OK (but not that fast).

[DanW]

Originally posted by suprdavtn
470lbs? one of the teams weighed it at 550lbs. I have not weighed mine but would be curious as to its real #. cant believe the honda is so heavy but from lifting it from the rear and front it feels like my ds650 to me.

Wow! I have a modded Rincon that I race Xc with and it weighs 600 pounds with a full tank of fuel. And it's 4 x 4... :eek2:

[montycarlo]

Originally posted by DanW
Wow! I have a modded Rincon that I race Xc with and it weighs 600 pounds with a full tank of fuel. And it's 4 x 4... :eek2:

Evidently you have just about one of everything in your garage?


ABSOLUTELY no harm in that! :macho

[DanW]

Originally posted by montycarlo
Evidently you have just about one of everything in your garage?


ABSOLUTELY no harm in that! :macho

Lol, no. Just my Rincon and a Z400 in the garage now.

[scuzz]

I'm kinda biased:

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j254/gwwaddle/TRX700XX/100_7406.jpg

Coming off of a carb quad I love knowing that changing the fuel mixture is just a few button pushes away. Winter starting should be a lot easier too.

No, I don't have one yet as I also have not bought one go-fast thing for it yet. It has pleanty of oomph coming off of a 400ex.


...and no, I'm not trolling for trouble. Just here to give an honest opinion.

[montycarlo]

Whatever the performance of that thing is it would look 100x better with an aluminum tube bumper & buzzsaw'd front fenders! :ermm:

[sleddog66]

Well i can't speak for the honda, but my 525 sat in the cold barn for about 1 month without moving. One day, about 10 below zero, I turned on the key, tapped the starter, and she was breathing fire instantly. The outlaws start perfect in cold weather! Now..............a hot weather stall cranks over for a few seconds, LOL.:macho

[bossman525]

Originally posted by scuzz
I'm kinda biased:

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j254/gwwaddle/TRX700XX/100_7406.jpg

Coming off of a carb quad I love knowing that changing the fuel mixture is just a few button pushes away. Winter starting should be a lot easier too.

No, I don't have one yet as I also have not bought one go-fast thing for it yet. It has pleanty of oomph coming off of a 400ex.


...and no, I'm not trolling for trouble. Just here to give an honest opinion.
i'm sure you are enjoying it scuzz. looks like you had a fun day there

[havoc01]

go to you tube an outlaw was racing a honda 700XX and the outlaw losed
Also very pissed off I have a 07 outlaw 525 irs and raced the 08 700 crapter and got beat by a bike lenght. And yes I can shift my *** off but they are fast
PS there both stock

[birdman7389]

Originally posted by havoc01
go to you tube an outlaw was racing a honda 700XX and the outlaw losed
Also very pissed off I have a 07 outlaw 525 irs and raced the 08 700 crapter and got beat by a bike lenght. And yes I can shift my *** off but they are fast
PS there both stock

OMG! A Youtube vid? :rolleyes:
Any bike can beat any other depending on way to many diff things....

I beat a 700R in the sand pretty regular, both stock :ermm:
Maybe you can't shift?

At the end of the day, who cares? Did you have fun on your ATV? Yes/No?

[birdman7389]

And the Honda posted in this thread looks like a good time, I'd love to ride one sometime....

<----Outlaw 525IRS owner

[eerhard09]

I like the Honda except for the front plastic.... for some reason, Honda decided to put waaaay too much plastic into those front fenders.... That, and they should not have used an 11" wheel in the rear, that just makes no sense and kind of kills its aftermarket options for tires w/o changing wheels also (if they can go to a 10" or even a 9" wheel....). I am sure it has great Honda quality though!

[stoopidbot]

Honda will void the entire warranty if you run anything smaller than an 11" rear rim. They did that for the angle of everything on the rear.

Even Honda will tell you that you will kill the rear end.

[GE4x4]

Putting a different rim on isn't going to change the angle at all. The hubs do not change, so that doesn't make sense at all.

[eerhard09]

Maybe there are rim clearance issues worse than the Outlaw has. If that is the case, that sucks! I would hate to have to run the limited 11" tires out there....

[Evasiveone]

I would hate to see my rims if I had to run an 11" rim at some of the rock Gardens we race at. That rim would be destroyed.

I rode a 700XX and the fit and finish was so nice. But it did sit really high and you could really tell the weight was there when it came time to turn it. But in the open areas and dunes I bet it is a blast, especially once you get some engine makers taking advantage of all those CC's.

[stoopidbot]

Originally posted by GE4x4
Putting a different rim on isn't going to change the angle at all. The hubs do not change, so that doesn't make sense at all. Put a 10" rim on one and watch what happens. This is straight from Honda.

An interesting outgrowth of Honda's goal to fit the longest A-arms and axle shafts possible is the use of special 11-inch-diameter rear wheels (larger than competitive designs). The larger-diameter wheels allow the knuckles and hubs to reach farther into the wheel cavity, which effectively extends the A-arms and axle shafts to the perimeter of the 700XX's track width. To maintain strength and light weight, the thickness of the rear-wheel wall varies as it extends from the center plate to the outer ring of the wheel—another Honda ATV first. And here's another: the fitment of replaceable rim scrapers to remove mud and debris from rear wheels, a feature pioneered on Honda's popular Foreman and Rincon series.

[GE4x4]

Originally posted by stoopidbot
Put a 10" rim on one and watch what happens. This is straight from Honda.

An interesting outgrowth of Honda's goal to fit the longest A-arms and axle shafts possible is the use of special 11-inch-diameter rear wheels (larger than competitive designs). The larger-diameter wheels allow the knuckles and hubs to reach farther into the wheel cavity, which effectively extends the A-arms and axle shafts to the perimeter of the 700XX's track width. To maintain strength and light weight, the thickness of the rear-wheel wall varies as it extends from the center plate to the outer ring of the wheel—another Honda ATV first. And here's another: the fitment of replaceable rim scrapers to remove mud and debris from rear wheels, a feature pioneered on Honda's popular Foreman and Rincon series.

Trust me, a wheel size will not change the angle of the a-arms. I race a Outlaw IRS and have both 9" and 10" wheels and no matter what wheel I put on, the a-arm angle is still the same. The reason Honda went with the 11" is so the can put a deeper dish wheel on so it won't hit the a-arms and keep the rear at a reasonable width. If they kept the same backspacing of the 11" wheel and used a 10" wheel, it would hit the a-arms. That's why the 10" ITP rims for the XX are a +1 over stock. All Honda did in there add is put a bunch of big words to make it sound good. You just need to read between the BS.

[GE4x4]

Look at the differences between the 700xx and the Outlaw.

[GE4x4]

Now the 700xx

[GE4x4]

Well lets get them both on the same page.

[GE4x4]

Now Honda says they have longest a arms, well looks like the Outlaws are longer. There upper arm is what held them back from 10" wheels. If they put the gull wing style like the 525, they would be able to fit 10" wheels. If they put a smaller hub with a 4/110 bolt pattern like the 525, this would even give them more room. I like the idea of the 700, but I still can not see any reason why they could not make a 10" wheel work.:confused:

[sheriff525]

How come the honda has no sway bar? at least i can't see one

[smo0oth1]

Originally posted by sheriff525
How come the honda has no sway bar? at least i can't see one

The XX does have sway bars

[smo0oth1]

Originally posted by stoopidbot
No a 10" rim is not possible on the rear of the 700xx. Has to do with the angles of the boots.

You sir are wrong, A 10" wheel does fit.

[smo0oth1]

Originally posted by Colby@C&DRacing
When it is time for tires you will have to switch to a 10" or 12" rim to get tires.

True there are not many options but you can always buy say,.. more stock ones. Razr's are available for it now also and there are multiple mud tires that in 11" rims also.

[smo0oth1]

Originally posted by vtt
At 389 lbs, the Outlaw is a sport quad, not the TRX at more than470 lbs.
Outlaw for too many reasons. Read the magazines, you'll understand.

I'm not exact on the outlaw but my XX weighed 502 wet on the scale at the recycle yard. From what I have read the outlaw is 450 wet? I don't believe there would be much to tell with the large spread of rider weight on these machines. And yes... your correct the XX is not a Sport quad. It was designed to be a crossover between a yute and sport, That being said It holds it own for its intended purpose.

[smo0oth1]

Originally posted by dcc1089
I got to ride a 700xx the other day....not impressed. The torque felt nice, but it seemed to fall flat in the upper RPM like a stock raptor 700. On the other hand, my wife's King Quad 700 handled better. It was a challenge to take turns fast. The dang thing pushes in turns no matter how hard you ride. The rear end felt sloppy too. It seems like the sway bar isn;t even there. Body roll is a given. Compared to an outlaw, Yama-wheels actually got this review right. It handled like a stick of butter on a hot frying pan, but the engine felt OK (but not that fast).

I can understand being bias but the bike pushing in fast turns is complete BS unless you had the front wheels off the ground. The bike hugs trails like glue when at high speeds when seated properly

[smo0oth1]

Last I'm not hear to try and flame the thread but again being bias (which most or to any brand) and stating false information helps no one. The OP should state what more he is looking for in a bike to help us help him.

[sheriff525]

Originally posted by smo0oth1
I can understand being bias but the bike pushing in fast turns is complete BS unless you had the front wheels off the ground. The bike hugs trails like glue when at high speeds when seated properly


Funny because even the guys who race the XX say it sucks in the corners as quoted from ATV SPORT MAGAZINE and their recent report on the BAJA race ready XX with huge$$$ invested into it just to be competative... as follows

The 700XX was very smooth. The final rear suspension setup greatly reduced roll and produced more predictable cornering, but it remained heavy and pre-turn readiness was still required.

“You have to set up early and be prepared to make your turns in advance. If you overshoot, and want to make a drastic recovery to make a sharp turn, forget it! It’s not going to happen,” explained Prather. “Just figure out what is going to be in the path if you go straight, because you’re going to be there, and you’re going to hit it, whether it’s a barbed wire fence, rock, a cow, an abandoned car, a ditch or a cliff. The plus side is, this bike will make it through that rough stuff better than most. Basically, it’s just a heavier machine, and it can’t be thrown around as easily as a 450.”

....you said "LIKE GLUE" ....

[stoopidbot]

Originally posted by smo0oth1
You sir are wrong, A 10" wheel does fit. I didn't mean it won't physically fit the quad. Look at the picture that was posted. If you put a 10" rim on there you will be rubbing on the A-Arm. If an 11" rim wasn't needed why would Honda put it on there? Just so people couldn't buy different rims? Whyt does Wayne Matlock still run the 11" rims if the 10's are ok?

[GE4x4]

Originally posted by stoopidbot
I didn't mean it won't physically fit the quad. Look at the picture that was posted. If you put a 10" rim on there you will be rubbing on the A-Arm. If an 11" rim wasn't needed why would Honda put it on there? Just so people couldn't buy different rims? Whyt does Wayne Matlock still run the 11" rims if the 10's are ok?

That's because with a offset to make the 10" rear would be near 50" wide, then they would need to widen the front to compensate. But you would have a xc quad as wide as a mx quad. Not good for sales. So the only way to keep it narrow is to put 11" wheels to keep the backspacing narrow. But again, if you look at the 525 arms, they gull wing them to get more clearence to get normal rims to fit. The 700 just go straight down, thus no clearence. You can believe all of Honda's hoopla in there add, but they could of easily made 10" wheels fit and keep the same lenth arms. If Polaris can make 9" wheels work with longer arms, then the Honda could to.

[stoopidbot]

Originally posted by GE4x4
That's because with a offset to make the 10" rear would be near 50" wide, then they would need to widen the front to compensate. But you would have a xc quad as wide as a mx quad. Not good for sales. So the only way to keep it narrow is to put 11" wheels to keep the backspacing narrow. But again, if you look at the 525 arms, they gull wing them to get more clearence to get normal rims to fit. The 700 just go straight down, thus no clearence. You can believe all of Honda's hoopla in there add, but they could of easily made 10" wheels fit and keep the same lenth arms. If Polaris can make 9" wheels work with longer arms, then the Honda could to. I agree that they could have and should have put smaller rims. Without changing the offset you can't run 10s. With changing the offset you will lose the protection that stock offers.

[OutlawBill]

Originally posted by stoopidbot
I didn't mean it won't physically fit the quad. Look at the picture that was posted. If you put a 10" rim on there you will be rubbing on the A-Arm. If an 11" rim wasn't needed why would Honda put it on there? Just so people couldn't buy different rims? Whyt does Wayne Matlock still run the 11" rims if the 10's are ok? because he races for Honda,DWT,and Maxxis makers of the quad, wheels and tires

[stoopidbot]

Originally posted by OutlawBill
because he races for Honda,DWT,and Maxxis makers of the quad, wheels and tires My point is that no company up to that point had a 11" rim available. Do you really think that DWT and Maxxis would make special tires and rims for him if a 10" would work just as good? The 11" rims serve a purpose.

[GE4x4]

Originally posted by stoopidbot
My point is that no company up to that point had a 11" rim available. Do you really think that DWT and Maxxis would make special tires and rims for him if a 10" would work just as good? The 11" rims serve a purpose.

I think if a 10" was put on it would be slap in Honda's face, thus why they kept the 11"

[GE4x4]

Also, the rim size has nothing to do with the suspension or any other thing to effect the 700. It's only for lack of clearence. Why put a 4/144 bolt pattern when every rear pattern is 4/110??:confused: If the 4/110 was put on, the hub would be smaller giving more clearence. Even utilities have a 4/110.

[stoopidbot]

Originally posted by GE4x4
I think if a 10" was put on it would be slap in Honda's face, thus why they kept the 11" Come on now. Do you really think they would make a whole new product because they don't want to hurt Honda's feelings? If that is your reasoning, I'm done with this conversation.

[GE4x4]

Originally posted by stoopidbot
Come on now. Do you really think they would make a whole new product because they don't want to hurt Honda's feelings? If that is your reasoning, I'm done with this conversation.


Then please explain to me why you think a 11" wheel is better then a 10". ITP has a 10" and it fits, but makes it to wide for most xc guys. Wheel size has NOTHING to do with performance, it's all to do with clearence. Honda 700xx doesn't have the clearence, so they needed a 11" to make it work. It's just like the new Polaris 850XP. Only 14" wheels work because they don't have the clearence for 12" to work.

[stoopidbot]

Originally posted by GE4x4
Then please explain to me why you think a 11" wheel is better then a 10". ITP has a 10" and it fits, but makes it to wide for most xc guys. Wheel size has NOTHING to do with performance, it's all to do with clearence. Honda 700xx doesn't have the clearence, so they needed a 11" to make it work. It's just like the new Polaris 850XP. Only 14" wheels work because they don't have the clearence for 12" to work. I said all along it was the clearance. To put a 10" rim on you would have to run a different offset. If you run a different offset your hubs and calipers are exposed.

Honda put the 11" rims on to clear the A-arms and still have the hubs protected by the offset of the rim.

And I never said that a 11" rim out preforms a 10" rim. Where did you get that?

[GE4x4]

For one, the caliper isn't even in the hub. 2nd, it doesn't look like they put the 11" to protect the hub, it's to clear the upper a-arm. The 525 has a deeper inside dish then the 700 and has no problem clearing the arms and protecting the hub and the wheels are 2" smaller. So only DWT and Maxxis make wheels and tires for it, so setting up the 700 is very limited. But with 10" wheels, the skies the limit. On a side note, why do you think they went with a 4/144 bolt pattern in the rear?? Doesn't seem that was very thought out either. There isn't a single quad made that has that rear pattern and that has nothing to do with wheel size.:confused: So not only do wheel companies need to make a weird wheel, but also a uncommon bolt pattern. Seems like a bit of oversight.

[OutlawBill]

Originally posted by GE4x4
For one, the caliper isn't even in the hub. 2nd, it doesn't look like they put the 11" to protect the hub, it's to clear the upper a-arm. The 525 has a deeper inside dish then the 700 and has no problem clearing the arms and protecting the hub and the wheels are 2" smaller. So only DWT and Maxxis make wheels and tires for it, so setting up the 700 is very limited. But with 10" wheels, the skies the limit. On a side note, why do you think they went with a 4/144 bolt pattern in the rear?? Doesn't seem that was very thought out either. There isn't a single quad made that has that rear pattern and that has nothing to do with wheel size.:confused: So not only do wheel companies need to make a weird wheel, but also a uncommon bolt pattern. Seems like a bit of oversight. Honda buys 20,000 sets they are the customer and who is going too till Honda they are wrong and may be Polaris has the patent on the 4/110 IRS setup

[smo0oth1]

Originally posted by sheriff525
Funny because even the guys who race the XX say it sucks in the corners as quoted from ATV SPORT MAGAZINE and their recent report on the BAJA race ready XX with huge$$$ invested into it just to be competative... as follows

The 700XX was very smooth. The final rear suspension setup greatly reduced roll and produced more predictable cornering, but it remained heavy and pre-turn readiness was still required.

“You have to set up early and be prepared to make your turns in advance. If you overshoot, and want to make a drastic recovery to make a sharp turn, forget it! It’s not going to happen,” explained Prather. “Just figure out what is going to be in the path if you go straight, because you’re going to be there, and you’re going to hit it, whether it’s a barbed wire fence, rock, a cow, an abandoned car, a ditch or a cliff. The plus side is, this bike will make it through that rough stuff better than most. Basically, it’s just a heavier machine, and it can’t be thrown around as easily as a 450.”

....you said "LIKE GLUE" ....

Yes... Like glue. You must forget everything you know about riding a SA to ride these bikes fast. It does have slow turning push, It does NOT have this problem at high speeds when seated properly. No if and or buts about it... You cannot slide this bike like a SA or "toss" it like a light 450. But the bike does perform brilliantly when rode properly.

[smo0oth1]

Originally posted by stoopidbot
I didn't mean it won't physically fit the quad. Look at the picture that was posted. If you put a 10" rim on there you will be rubbing on the A-Arm. If an 11" rim wasn't needed why would Honda put it on there? Just so people couldn't buy different rims? Whyt does Wayne Matlock still run the 11" rims if the 10's are ok?

I'm not sure why he runs them put he is a member on our forum at club700xx.com ask him there. Do you really think Honda would intentionally put a wheel on its bike to screw there riders lol? The aftermarket is already catching up, excuse Honda for stepping outside the "norm".

[smo0oth1]

Originally posted by stoopidbot
My point is that no company up to that point had a 11" rim available. Do you really think that DWT and Maxxis would make special tires and rims for him if a 10" would work just as good? The 11" rims serve a purpose.

There is more to it than just suspension, There are benefits with larger rims and smaller sidewalls.

[scuzz]

I'm going to measure the stock width of the quad with the stock wheels and then measure it with the 10" ITP's later tonight.

[GE4x4]

Originally posted by smo0oth1
There is more to it than just suspension, There are benefits with larger rims and smaller sidewalls.

This is true, a smaller sidewall will flexx less in corners so less roll. But they could of done that with 10" rims and 20" tires. But at the same time, the rims are more prone to damage and less traction as there is no tire flexx.

[GE4x4]

Originally posted by scuzz
I'm going to measure the stock width of the quad with the stock wheels and then measure it with the 10" ITP's later tonight.

That would be great. Look forward to it:macho

[scuzz]

Originally posted by GE4x4
This is true, a smaller sidewall will flexx less in corners so less roll. But they could of done that with 10" rims and 20" tires. But at the same time, the rims are more prone to damage and less traction as there is no tire flexx.


Yeah, there's lots of trade offs for larger wheels. More traction vs greater unsprung weight. Larger diameter wheels generally go over obstacles easier and have less rolling resistance.

To me though 1" in rim isn't going to make a huge difference in a quad other than cost of replacement tires.

[GE4x4]

Originally posted by scuzz
Yeah, there's lots of trade offs for larger wheels. More traction vs greater unsprung weight. Larger diameter wheels generally go over obstacles easier and have less rolling resistance.

To me though 1" in rim isn't going to make a huge difference in a quad other than cost of replacement tires.

If your a trail rider then I agree. But if you want to race it, then your out of luck. The Maxxis or stock tires are about double normal tires, and the only beadlocks you can get are OMF and they will run you over $1000. I can get a full set of beadlock and tires for my Outlaw for less then just the beadlocks for the 700. You just get no selection. But if the 10" wheels fit nice and don't make the rear to wide, then there are much more options out there. If that set-up is around 48" wide, then it will still be a nice xc quad. But if it puts it at 50"+ only that sand guys or wide open trails will benifit.

[scuzz]

<----- trail rider.

[sheriff525]

Originally posted by smo0oth1
Yes... Like glue. You must forget everything you know about riding a SA to ride these bikes fast. It does have slow turning push, It does NOT have this problem at high speeds when seated properly. No if and or buts about it... You cannot slide this bike like a SA or "toss" it like a light 450. But the bike does perform brilliantly when rode properly.

I do ride an IRS. I know how it is different. I like my outlaw.

[smo0oth1]

Originally posted by GE4x4
This is true, a smaller sidewall will flexx less in corners so less roll. But they could of done that with 10" rims and 20" tires. But at the same time, the rims are more prone to damage and less traction as there is no tire flexx.

I read an article where Honda said they benefited from the 22" tire by using a smaller rear sprocket increasing ground clearance.

[birdman7389]

Originally posted by smo0oth1
I read an article where Honda said they benefited from the 22" tire by using a smaller rear sprocket increasing ground clearance.
That is a sham. Losing a couple teeth on a rear sprocket is going to gain TINY amounts of clearance :rolleyes:
Especially on an IRS setup with lots of clearance anyway, it seems a silly claim.

[GE4x4]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by smo0oth1
I read an article where Honda said they benefited from the 22" tire by using a smaller rear sprocket increasing ground clearance. [/QUOTE


The sprocket is above the frame.:confused:

[scuzz]

I guess by that they mean that they had less of an area that needed a skid plate...maybe?

[smo0oth1]

Originally posted by birdman7389
That is a sham. Losing a couple teeth on a rear sprocket is going to gain TINY amounts of clearance :rolleyes:
Especially on an IRS setup with lots of clearance anyway, it seems a silly claim.

Silly or not its a fact and not a sham. Read here, Bottom of the page. Also why are you so offensive?

http://www.atvriders.com/atvmodels/honda-2008-trx-700xx-atv-features-p2.html

[Evasiveone]

Like GE said, the sprocket is above the frame. While a sham may not be the right word, it is definately a bogus claim. The sprocket size difference is maybe 1/8" and not going to affect the ground clearance anyway with where the sprocket is.

I still think like the others that the unique to 700XX hub size was a major over-sight by the engineers at Honda. Look at the 2003 Predator 500 and it's unique rear bolt pattern rim, that was a major flop. Honda should of learned from that mistake, this is no different from that.

There are far many more disadvantages of the unique rim size for the 700XX than advantages, if any.

[birdman7389]

Originally posted by smo0oth1
Silly or not its a fact and not a sham. Read here, Bottom of the page. Also why are you so offensive?

http://www.atvriders.com/atvmodels/honda-2008-trx-700xx-atv-features-p2.html
Buy into the honda double-talk all you want. I'm telling you, a few teeth on a sprocket is friggin tiny.
Offensive? If calling BS where I see it is offensive, then I suppose so.

After all that, the Outlaw beats it by a solid 1/2" in the clearance department, with none of this "Oh, we made the tires bigger so the gearbox could be bigger and run a smaller sprocket and OMG clearance"
:devil:

[tyhackman15]

yea, i'm pretty sure they were talking about the larger tires adding clearance, and the sprocket allowing them to run the larger tires. Not the sprocket itself increasing clearance...

[GE4x4]

Originally posted by tyhackman15
yea, i'm pretty sure they were talking about the larger tires adding clearance, and the sprocket allowing them to run the larger tires. Not the sprocket itself increasing clearance...

That doesn't add up either. Putting a smaller spocket to add bigger tires for clearence doesn't sound right. A smaller rear sprocker gears up the drive, then adding taller tires gears it up even more.:confused:

[birdman7389]

Originally posted by GE4x4
That doesn't add up either. Putting a smaller spocket to add bigger tires for clearence doesn't sound right. A smaller rear sprocker gears up the drive, then adding taller tires gears it up even more.:confused:

Not fair! You are using logic AND mechanical knowledge :o

[smo0oth1]

Originally posted by birdman7389
Buy into the honda double-talk all you want. I'm telling you, a few teeth on a sprocket is friggin tiny.
Offensive? If calling BS where I see it is offensive, then I suppose so.

After all that, the Outlaw beats it by a solid 1/2" in the clearance department, with none of this "Oh, we made the tires bigger so the gearbox could be bigger and run a smaller sprocket and OMG clearance"
:devil:

What double talk? Do you think they built the bike first then made up excuses afterwards of why things came out the way they were? Obviously you are just trying to defend the outlaw with rambling in which I never even called out any negatives of it. I did however call out what I seen was BS claims which takes away from the OP view. Second I don't see that he has joined the thread since posting so any effort we are putting forward is null anyway. Obviously he will here praise here for the outlaw and praise for the XX on the honda forum, this thread will go nowhere.

latr

[GE4x4]

Originally posted by smo0oth1
What double talk? Do you think they built the bike first then made up excuses afterwards of why things came out the way they were?

Every manufactor out there who has made things have made people scratch there head and wonder what they were thinking. Does the rear of the 700 work?, Yes. Could they have made it better? IMHO, Yes. Will they change it for the 2010? Mayby. But 95% of the people who see the 700xx agree that the rear wheel size and pattern should be better. IMHO, I think if Honda did make this 700 stock with a 10" wheel and a standard 4/110 bolt pattern, these would sell much much better. People like having options when it comes to modding, especially wheels and tires as this is usally the first thing people change, the 700 has only 2, stock or Maxxis Razr. I know I would be looking very hard at one if this option was available.

[GE4x4]

Originally posted by scuzz
I'm going to measure the stock width of the quad with the stock wheels and then measure it with the 10" ITP's later tonight.


Were you able to get a measurment?:cool:

[scuzz]

Sorry man, I was too cold and too tired I'll get it tonight...promise.

[GE4x4]

Originally posted by scuzz
Sorry man, I was too cold and too tired I'll get it tonight...promise.

No problem. :macho

[scuzz]

As promised:

OK, here's what I found:

Stock width 46 inches.

Width with ITP rims 49 inches.


Here's the pictures:

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j254/gwwaddle/TRX700XX/100_9262.jpg

The balloon paddles sure do look skinny. (YES, I KNOW I PUT THEM ON THE WRONG SIDE....THEY WERE ONLY FINGER TIGHT.)

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j254/gwwaddle/TRX700XX/100_9267.jpg

Close clearance:

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j254/gwwaddle/TRX700XX/100_9265.jpg

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j254/gwwaddle/TRX700XX/100_9266.jpg


The measuring tape:

Stock:

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j254/gwwaddle/TRX700XX/100_9263.jpg

ITP:

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j254/gwwaddle/TRX700XX/100_9270.jpg

[GE4x4]

Thanks.

On the width, that is with no rider on the quad. Did you push down on the rear and let it settle then measure?

[scuzz]

No problem, I'll do it tomorrow.