2004 quicker than 2005 (reverse related)

[NXGHOST]

I read that in 2005 when reverse was added to the 400ex that the bike slowed down several MPH, possibly due to the different trans. Is there any truth to this? I am pondering buying a 2005 Motor for my 2003 400ex just because I do a lot of trail riding and no reverse sucks. I just dont want to lose performance when I do so.

its not that noticable. Its 1HP if your lucky and they will go about the same speed in each gear just the 2005 and up will be slightly slower getting there. Noticable for the average person.. highly doubt it. Go ahead and do the swap

[hornetgod13]

Originally posted by FoxHondaRider
its not that noticable. Its 1HP if your lucky and they will go about the same speed in each gear just the 2005 and up will be slightly slower getting there. Noticable for the average person.. highly doubt it. Go ahead and do the swap

Do you have any proof to support this statement or are you going by "word of mouth".

I know there were dyno numbers somewhere that showed the older models having .5 more HP or something. I am also going by word of mouth. Racers have told me dont get a quad with reverse because it will rob some HP. I know the 2005 400ex are heavier if you put a skid plate on than the older models. The 2005 and up they added weight with wires, reverse, and a few other things but took tht weight off by making a plastic skid plate and such. Its not noticable but there is a difference

[Hondamaster5505]

Originally posted by FoxHondaRider
I know there were dyno numbers somewhere that showed the older models having .5 more HP or something. I am also going by word of mouth. Racers have told me dont get a quad with reverse because it will rob some HP. I know the 2005 400ex are heavier if you put a skid plate on than the older models. The 2005 and up they added weight with wires, reverse, and a few other things but took tht weight off by making a plastic skid plate and such. Its not noticable but there is a difference

That is such major BS.

A dyno isn't that precise, you seem to think the dyno proves everything.

If you ran the same quad 5 times, each time would be different, and I bet you would find a 1-2 horsepower different through all the runs.
Plus, all quads come out of the factory different.

So tell me, how they proved their is a .5hp difference on the two models:rolleyes:

[atvmaster0927]

There are sooooo many threads about this. just search for it.

Yes it will rob you of a VERY small amount of horsepower, due to friction of adding an extra gear.

And what FoxHondaRider was saying about weight and such is also true.

there is a loss, but joe average rider won't notice it...it comes from different gearing, not the addition of reverse...my source, if i remember correctly, is both dirty wheels AND atv sport...

[atvmaster0927]

Originally posted by speedyquad
there is a loss, but joe average rider won't notice it...it comes from different gearing, not the addition of reverse...my source, if i remember correctly, is both dirty wheels AND atv sport...


Yup i remember reading in one o those magizines too.

Honda changed the gearing internal and external making them so close in speed. I don't see a point in doing that they improved some gears and made others not as good. Heres the chartcomparing the older vs the newer.

[boosted3g]

To answer the original question it looks to me by that chart that the 05-07 is quicker and the 99-04 is faster.

[Ruby Soho]

yes, there is a difference, does it matter? no.

do the swap.

Originally posted by boosted3g
To answer the original question it looks to me by that chart that the 05-07 is quicker and the 99-04 is faster.

they are about equal because Honda jewed some parts making them less durable and lighter to compensate for the extra weight they added on to the newer models.

[Hondamaster5505]

Originally posted by FoxHondaRider
they are about equal because Honda jewed some parts making them less durable and lighter to compensate for the extra weight they added on to the newer models.

I bet you wouldnt be saying that if you owned an 05-07:rolleyes:

And I wouldn't trust that gearing calculator for nothing. Come on, 75mph at 7,700 rpm:ermm: be realistic here. An ex will drop dead by 65-67mph

Originally posted by Hondamaster5505
I bet you wouldnt be saying that if you owned an 05-07:rolleyes:

And I wouldn't trust that gearing calculator for nothing. Come on, 75mph at 7,700 rpm:ermm: be realistic here. An ex will drop dead by 65-67mph

i would love to know where you are getting this number? are you looking at the shift drops?

[Hondamaster5505]

Originally posted by FoxHondaRider
i would love to know where you are getting this number? are you looking at the shift drops?

oh, just saw that now.

But it still wont do that maxed out. Do you have any proof? I do. My vapor is set correctly, and it does just about 66. And I dont want to hear, "well, my cousins friends stroer does 86!"

:rolleyes:

[hornetgod13]

A lot of "he said, she said" is thrown around on here. People read things in threads once or twice and think they are actual fact.

i'm not saying the gearing calculators are right, infact I think they seem a bit high but then again I have not radar or GPS clocked my 400ex 5th gear at the rev limiter. I do not trust those trail techs after seeing how jumpy the RPM was, maybe they are i dont know. take into consideration your tire pressure and tire size. My quad was much slower than my brothers when I ran 5PSI and he had Razrs so they are a tougher sidewall and having 5PSI aswell. We kept racing and I would get him acceleration then he would walk away from me. We switched off same result. I started thinking maybe he put that hotcam in then it dawned on me my tires were not 20" because of the pressure and the weight on them, the tires had squish. I pumped them up to 10PSI just for the heck of it to have less drag andI walked away from my brother. So tire size actually being 20" and being in 5th gear 9100 RPM those numbers doesnt seem that off. Just throwing it out there because you said you got about 66MPH Hondamaster5505 on your trail tech. Now were your tires exactly 20" or not because I was amazed how much a little smaller tire could make in topspeed. Like I said I would be starting to top out and my brother would fly by me like he had turbo lag and now he was boosting lol all from tire sizes

[Hondamaster5505]

Originally posted by FoxHondaRider
Hondamaster5505 on your trail tech. Now were your tires exactly 20" or not because I was amazed how much a little smaller tire could make in topspeed. Like I said I would be starting to top out and my brother would fly by me like he had turbo lag and now he was boosting lol all from tire sizes

Well, first of all, the trailtech is only jumpy in neutral when you rev it quickly. Like all digital things. When you're actually accelerating, it's goes up real smooth.

As far as the tires and such. My rears are definitely if not slightly more than 20". But, that doesn't affect it. To program the vapor, you physically measure the front tire (where it reads) in a much more fine measurement. It's not like you just type in 21" and be done with it.

So it's set very accurately (not like the morons on youtube, that show their speedo saying 80mph, because it isnt set right.) And I got just about 66mph.

So far I like the vapor. A lot less jumpy then the endurance my dad used to have.

Originally posted by Hondamaster5505

As far as the tires and such. My rears are definitely if not slightly more than 20". But, that doesn't affect it. To program the vapor, you physically measure the front tire (where it reads) in a much more fine measurement. It's not like you just type in 21" and be done with it.

So it's set very accurately (not like the morons on youtube, that show their speedo saying 80mph, because it isnt set right.).


i have had a trail tech endurance and vapor...i think my vapor was less accurate on the 450r, for speed, than the endurance was on the 400ex. to say that the speed calculation on them is as accurate as you claim...i have to call bull pucky for the reason that foxhondarider claimed. that rigght from tire has to be at the exact same mm measurement for the whole duration of the ride. i believe mine was in the 1620ish range. now does my tire stay that same diameter for the whole ride...of course not...as i ride, i may be going through fields where it gains pressure. when it gains pressure it gains diameter. for grins and giggles someday, reprogram it for just one or 2 mm difference and do a top speed run...see how different of a reading you get.

i didn't get them for speed, i got them for a rough estimate on distance traveled and for the rpm and engine temp sensor, knowing that they are not super accurate. they were close enough for me...although i don't think i will buy another one...

as a side note, my 400ex had a top speed of 67 and my 450r had a top speed of 69 mph...

[carpenter2008]

there is no way that the calculator is right...i have a 2007 400ex with no reverse gov. and it wont do 28 mph in reverse

Originally posted by carpenter2008
there is no way that the calculator is right...i have a 2007 400ex with no reverse gov. and it wont do 28 mph in reverse

so in reverse you have gone to 9100 RPM?

400ex with 18" tires went 67.25MPH at 9,000RPM according to these dyno graphs

[MtnEX]

Originally posted by NXGHOST
I read that in 2005 when reverse was added to the 400ex that the bike slowed down several MPH, possibly due to the different trans. Is there any truth to this? I am pondering buying a 2005 Motor for my 2003 400ex just because I do a lot of trail riding and no reverse sucks. I just dont want to lose performance when I do so.

Here's the bottom line....

I does not matter.


Once, the 400EX was the Honda race machine, so it did not get reverse.
The 450R came out and proved it was going to sell.
So the EX is no longer the race machine and needs reverse to compete with the other 400's.


I think reverse would be nice to have in the woods... so I have in mind that I might do the same thing instead of rebuilding my engine when it comes time. Just get an '05 + engine, swap my parts, and keep the other engine around for parts or backup for major failure.

I don't know what they cost though, so I don't know if it's a reasonable idea or not.

[Ruby Soho]

foxhonda, you do realise that

1. 400ex's dont make power past around 6,000 rpm.

2. don't go by dyno's because there is no wind resistance or any other factors that are there when your really riding.

the only thing changing your speed is gearing, tire sizes etc.. engine mods won't increase your speed, it will increase how fast your engine reaches its maximum speed

[REDRIDDER]

75mph stock out of either one is funny, I can barely get to 72mph with all my mods lol.