Why so many 250r's for sale?

[troybilt]

Any theories? Seems like everyone is selling out these days. Even ebay is full of 250r's for sale. ...well bad for them good for me I guess.. :D

[8686]

Yeah there's a lot of 250R's on ebay, but not a lot of nice ones.

[250r4life]

you asked for theories... so, i will go ahead and give them to you... this was my basis for the switch...

it makes more sense to buy the 450...

prior to the YFZ, if you had a piped 250r that was dialed in good, you had the ability to beat most things out there (a banshee with a LOT of work is dang near impossible to beat then and now). you could beat the raptor, you could beat the 400ex, you could beat the ds650... and you had a much lighter and better handling bike...

well, then came the 450...
it wasnt like the previous 4 strokes, it liked to be revved, it was quick and nimble, and it was light... it also had considerably better suspension than the previous bikes...

i can take a stock YFZ, take the baffle out, take the lid off, rejet it, and retard the cam (with the only cost being jets that i already had from my 250r) and i can compete with if not beat most 265-275rs... and, it is still under warranty... if something goes wrong, i put the baffle back in, the lid back on, and the stock jets back in, and i drop it off at my local dealership, and they call me when it is done... and yes, i have done it twice... once with my transmission that was $1300 worth of repairs, and once again with my top end that was another $1200 in repairs...

i dont have to run race fuel, i dont have to mix my gas... and, my bike isnt 20 years old... the 250r was an incredibly well built bike, but even still, after years and years of hard riding, it starts to break down...

if they were making a 2009 honda trx 265R, that had like a duncan or pro x type cylinder with better cooling capacity, and it came with shocks with rezzies and what not, then we would be talking... or even if we were comparing a brand new 450 to a brand new '89 250r we would have a better comparison... but we're not... we are comparing new/newer bikes to bikes that are great, but they have a finite life and unfortunately honda quite making them nearly 20 years ago...

[atvmxr]

so much for the "4life" part. LOL

I think its just the economy. people are selling all kinds of stuff to make ends meet. trucks, cars, quads, boats, race cars, etc...


:)

[250r4life]

Originally posted by atvmxr
so much for the "4life" part. LOL



lol... yeah- i didnt anticipate i would ever sell that bike... i still love them and havent ruled out getting another one, but it wouldnt be cuz it makes more sense or anything... it would be cuz i have excess money so i might as well...

[250Renvy]

Could be just the time of year. There are always people selling 250R's to get 450's since they came out, but I've noticed a lot for sale right now.

250R's and any 450 are race machines. Too bad all the trail machines suck. I wish they'd just put their trail motors in their racers that way the trail machines are decent.

[Creech52]

Im with the person that said the failing economy, plus it might just be that time when people unload bikes they dont ride anymore because winter is coming. I dunno really, but Ill never get rid of my R and probably end up building another one or two.

[dynofox]

Originally posted by 250r4life
you asked for theories... so, i will go ahead and give them to you... this was my basis for the switch...

it makes more sense to buy the 450...

prior to the YFZ, if you had a piped 250r that was dialed in good, you had the ability to beat most things out there (a banshee with a LOT of work is dang near impossible to beat then and now). you could beat the raptor, you could beat the 400ex, you could beat the ds650... and you had a much lighter and better handling bike...

well, then came the 450...
it wasnt like the previous 4 strokes, it liked to be revved, it was quick and nimble, and it was light... it also had considerably better suspension than the previous bikes...

i can take a stock YFZ, take the baffle out, take the lid off, rejet it, and retard the cam (with the only cost being jets that i already had from my 250r) and i can compete with if not beat most 265-275rs... and, it is still under warranty... if something goes wrong, i put the baffle back in, the lid back on, and the stock jets back in, and i drop it off at my local dealership, and they call me when it is done... and yes, i have done it twice... once with my transmission that was $1300 worth of repairs, and once again with my top end that was another $1200 in repairs...

i dont have to run race fuel, i dont have to mix my gas... and, my bike isnt 20 years old... the 250r was an incredibly well built bike, but even still, after years and years of hard riding, it starts to break down...

if they were making a 2009 honda trx 265R, that had like a duncan or pro x type cylinder with better cooling capacity, and it came with shocks with rezzies and what not, then we would be talking... or even if we were comparing a brand new 450 to a brand new '89 250r we would have a better comparison... but we're not... we are comparing new/newer bikes to bikes that are great, but they have a finite life and unfortunately honda quite making them nearly 20 years ago...

Its funny you mention this, I work at a dealership and have access to the Polars 450mxr, Kawasaki kfx 450r and Suzuki quadracer at below cost and still decided to buy and build up a 250r. I don't race, just trail ride so the machine isn't getting beat to death. Always wanted a trx 250r as a kid and now have a restored 86 ATC 250r and well set up 86 TRX 250r, both of which I will never sell. :D

[Creech52]

Originally posted by dynofox
Its funny you mention this, I work at a dealership and have access to the Polars 450mxr, Kawasaki kfx 450r and Suzuki quadracer at below cost and still decided to buy and build up a 250r. I don't race, just trail ride so the machine isn't getting beat to death. Always wanted a trx 250r as a kid and now have a restored 86 ATC 250r and well set up 86 TRX 250r, both of which I will never sell. :D

Amen, I wouldnt mind picking up a ATC 250R someday just to look at and maybe scare me every once in awhile.

[250r4life]

im not dogging on the R... not in the slightest... I love the 250r and think it is a sweet bike... i definately miss mine... but do i think of selling my YFZ in order to get another one... no.

[Aceman]

Originally posted by 250r4life
i can take a stock YFZ, take the baffle out, take the lid off, rejet it, and retard the cam (with the only cost being jets that i already had from my 250r) and i can compete with if not beat most 265-275rs... and, it is still under warranty... if something goes wrong, i put the baffle back in, the lid back on, and the stock jets back in, and i drop it off at my local dealership, and they call me when it is done... and yes, i have done it twice... once with my transmission that was $1300 worth of repairs, and once again with my top end that was another $1200 in repairs...

Wait...let me see if I understand your point. You can mildly mod a yfz and then it'll compete/beat a 250r. But then it needs $2500 dollars in repairs but that's okay because it's under warranty. Did I get that right?

If it can't even get through the warranty period without major repairs what do you think is going to happen when the warranty is up?:ermm:

[Dave83]

[i]

If it can't even get through the warranty period without major repairs what do you think is going to happen when the warranty is up?:ermm: [/B]
Part it out and take the 2500 to ebay and buy a sweet R;)

[250r4life]

Originally posted by Aceman
Wait...let me see if I understand your point. You can mildly mod a yfz and then it'll compete/beat a 250r. But then it needs $2500 dollars in repairs but that's okay because it's under warranty. Did I get that right?

If it can't even get through the warranty period without major repairs what do you think is going to happen when the warranty is up?:ermm:

i dont plan on having it longer than 4.5 years... thats the beauty of it- they are still making them...

my R with no engine work woulda ran forever... but once you get into the engine they dont... i got longer out of my YFZ without any problems than i did with my Bigger Bore R, and when stuff went wrong with the R i had to pay out of pocket... lost my engine twice, and my tranny another time...

with the way i ride i dont expect any bike to last forever...

[JM317]

I sold the 250R, bought a KTM 525XC and never looked back.

[norcalduner]

I will be buried with my 250r:D:D:D

[Master LTR450]

I will be buried with my 250r

X2!!!!

[mfr422]

X3!!!!, I did the opposite, I bought another R and built my dream duner machine!!!

[mxduner]

i dont plan on having it longer than 4.5 years.

Wtf...how much does a extended warranty have to cost you? am i reading this right??? 4 or 5 years??? either way.

idk man... 2500 bucks in warranty cost on a machine that has (i think) 6 months and it costs 2500 up keep??? wtf

[troybilt]

Originally posted by norcalduner
I will be buried with my 250r:D:D:D

X4. Undeniably the most influential quad in history.

[LONG-ROD]

I don't see why people like 4 strokes, they are hot on your leg, they sound like crap, they cost alot to build, they are heavy, they burn oil, you have to adjust the valves every now and to keep them running prime, and most peolple don't know how to work on a 2 stroke properly, so what makes them think they work on a 4 stroke, OH probably comes back to the thing where they think 4 strokes are more reliable, B.S. maybe in 1990.

[atvmxr]

i have 3 250rs so far, does that me X7?



:D

[rigger]

I am going to be building an 86 frame 250 R soon. I would rather build it than buy a new 450. I have had XRs and 400EXs, really easy motors to live with. I have had plenty of 2-stroke dirt bikes, never had a problem, keeping them up was nothing. Had a Banshee, no problems at all.

I have only ridden two modern 4-strokes, a 250 Yamaha and 450 Honda. The motors were cool. But then I hear stories of how they did not even run a year before needing a $1000+ rebuld. Changing oil, filters and adjusting valves almost every ride. I like to work on my bikes but that rebuild cost is scares me . That is what makes me not want one.

Unless it is a really big bore 4-stroke, I would rather ride a 2-stroke. That is just what I like. I flat out have more fun on them. That is what it is suppose to be about anyway right. And if I am ever done building this 250R, I will have had a lot of fun doing it and will be able to take a lot of pride in it.

[All250R]

Originally posted by rigger
Unless it is a really big bore 4-stroke, I would rather ride a 2-stroke. That is just what I like. I flat out have more fun on them. That is what it is suppose to be about anyway right. And if I am ever done building this 250R, I will have had a lot of fun doing it and will be able to take a lot of pride in it.
x8 (?) I own 3 (a rider 88 and two near mint 89's), though I don't need them all for sure... maybe 2. But anyway, I'm with you on this. It's a matter of preference for me too. I've gotten good at building the engines too. For someone technical like me, I can't afford to prototype (or want to) cams and valves for experimental engine designs. I have porting and other associated tools and references though. :D

The other thing I've noticed about R's in the few years I've been pretty deep with them is that with maintenance the bike will still run and perform like new. OEM frames are the only real hard spot that I know of. But scouting can dig some nice originals with low hours for the right price, and even if you can't find that in the time period you want, you can locate some aftermarket. Plus the major parts to keep an R going you can still get from the factory. I'm not saying it's like maintaining 450s exactly, but it's not as bleak as saying well it's 20 years old - it's irreconcilably degraded. Basically I think R's are only old if the maintenance has been neglected.

But again, it's rider preference. It's nice to have a choice still. By the way CPI I think is making new cylinders still. ESR just made a new pipe. Demand can't be that bad. Obviously there are enough of us out there who don't get the same thrill from 4strokes, even ones wound up all tight.

[All250R]

by the way, if it gets bad enough we can just put 2strokes into 450 chassis. This guy put a banshee motor in a YFZ450 chassis. I actually want this bike...
all250
part1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyKufiJR8xM)
part2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E46ggOQwPX8)

phukin cool!!!!

[headache]

Originally posted by LONG-ROD
I don't see why people like 4 strokes, they are hot on your leg, they sound like crap, they cost alot to build, they are heavy, they burn oil, you have to adjust the valves every now and to keep them running prime, and most peolple don't know how to work on a 2 stroke properly, so what makes them think they work on a 4 stroke, OH probably comes back to the thing where they think 4 strokes are more reliable, B.S. maybe in 1990.


Yeah if you want a reliable four stroke you better buy a warrior or 300ex lol..

[All250R]

Originally posted by headache
Yeah if you want a reliable four stroke you better buy a warrior or 300ex lol..
A "modern" 400ex is a reliable motor too. It was originally designed probably close to the 80's if were to guess. With the same displacement, reliability is a trade off for more power. High hp 4strokes aren't new technology. You want to consider more the intended design, less what year it was built. The nuances that change from year to year aren't as great as the overall design objective.

[250Renvy]

Originally posted by All250R
A "modern" 400ex is a reliable motor too. It was originally designed probably close to the 80's if were to guess. With the same displacement, reliability is a trade off for more power. High hp 4strokes aren't new technology. You want to consider more the intended design, less what year it was built. The nuances that change from year to year aren't as great as the overall design objective.

This is turning into a 4-stroke vs 2-stroke debate
which the OP didn't really ask about. But the funniest thing I always see in the 2 vs 4 is the "new technology" and "modern" when the fact is, even with efi, the motor is still the same, it's the brain and fuel delivery that is "new technology" The design of the motors are still basically the same. There may be a few advancements in metals and alloys used but come on both 2 and 4 stroke motors are the same design as when they were first developed.
The only really new design I can think of is the Mazda rotaray engine.

Also OP

Back to school may be a big factor why there are so many available right now. High school kids get involved in other stuff and college kids need money for tuition.

[All250R]

I think there's a reasonable argument, and I think you'll agree that many people are selling the 250R's so they can put the cash into buying the 4stroke alternative many because they think it's a technology driven offering.

2t vs 4t should be a matter of preference, not which "technology" is better. My point is that a lot of people confuse the two when they decide to sell their 250R. But you're right, it's a tangent point.

[Dave83]

Good points by both of the previous 2 posters.Besides,it not like they are beiing sold to a scrap yard,the way I see it, for every one that sells it just means someone else is either adding to their stable or getting to enjoy a R for the first time.

[250r4life]

Originally posted by mxduner
Wtf...how much does a extended warranty have to cost you? am i reading this right??? 4 or 5 years??? either way.

idk man... 2500 bucks in warranty cost on a machine that has (i think) 6 months and it costs 2500 up keep??? wtf

factory yamaha warranty is 6 months... i bought a western service warranty contact that extends an additional 4 years beyond the factory warranty for $300...

i have a lot more than 6 months on it... and i have a lot of hard riding on it...

i went through 2 full dune seasons and a lot of other riding before i had any problem with it... i wouldnt have had this second problem had they put a new piston on when they were in doing the tranny (which i had told them to do)...

my good riding buddy had 3 full dune seasons on his when his piston went a couple months ago... also covered by the warranty...

going 2 or 3 seasons with not problems whatsoever and a lot of HARD riding, im not worried about how well the bike is put together...

[All250R]

Originally posted by 250r4life
factory yamaha warranty is 6 months... i bought a western service warranty contact that extends an additional 4 years beyond the factory warranty for $300...

i have a lot more than 6 months on it... and i have a lot of hard riding on it...

i went through 2 full dune seasons and a lot of other riding before i had any problem with it... i wouldnt have had this second problem had they put a new piston on when they were in doing the tranny (which i had told them to do)...

my good riding buddy had 3 full dune seasons on his when his piston went a couple months ago... also covered by the warranty...

going 2 or 3 seasons with not problems whatsoever and a lot of HARD riding, im not worried about how well the bike is put together...
Wow! Good for you man! Hopefully they can afford to keep that policy available for people. 300 bucks is a lot less than what that motor on average will go through in 4 years I'm guessing. Good find.

[54warrior]

Originally posted by 250Renvy

The only really new design I can think of is the Mazda rotary engine.

Rotary Engine = New design?!?! Hardly.

I was just at a WWII Airplane museum last weekend which had a cutaway 28 cylinder rotary engines. In fact, most planes from that era had rotary engines.

[Master LTR450]

The only really new design I can think of is the Mazda rotary engine.

They arent even new in Mazda's either!!

[250Renvy]

Originally posted by 54warrior
Rotary Engine = New design?!?! Hardly.

I was just at a WWII Airplane museum last weekend which had a cutaway 28 cylinder rotary engines. In fact, most planes from that era had rotary engines.

Getting caught in semantics?

If you think of it that way, it still is new. If you figure the standard combustion motor was developed in the 1900's and put into wide use in the 1920's and WWII was in the 1940's then yes it is new.

As far as them being new in Mazda - they are probably well over 20 years old.

[troybilt]

Originally posted by 250Renvy
Getting caught in semantics?

If you think of it that way, it still is new. If you figure the standard combustion motor was developed in the 1900's and put into wide use in the 1920's and WWII was in the 1940's then yes it is new.

As far as them being new in Mazda - they are probably well over 20 years old.

That'd be the Wankel Engine... and it has been around since the 1950's-ish.

Just for discussion, since we are on the subject of quad and future technology. Has anyone ever thought of testing a pnematic motor in a quad? I've got a spare quad laying around that I thought about toying with this. Especially since fuel is what it is today.

[All250R]

I think it's a pretty small amount of people and particularly consumers that can say what it is that is new technology about much of anything engine related. Most people just know, well I couldn't do this before and now I can. With most things the non-engineer notices, you have measure advancements in technology if there are any in decades in my opinion. (I've mentioned this before somewhere I think) The year stamp on the frame for most people is more likely to represent refinments to the design for a particular application (or decals), than it indicates any sort of step forward in technology. A lot of times technology is borrowed from other application domains and reused for a different purpose. That doesn't make it new; it just means there was a new need for that technology.

The engines they're putting in offroad bikes and ATV's lately I dare say is close to 100% here because of a new need, not because it does something that hasn't already been done in engine design or consumer requirement.

You have to look at the problem trying to be solved to measure and evaluate technology. If people aren't asking that question, they're not even undestanding the question of technology much less able to lend a valid observation about how it is new, never been seen before, and somehow advancing the field. So anyone selling their 250R because it's outdated is in my estimation the outcome of sheer capitalism.

People talk about the EPA and how the environment plays a role, but is it a new technology even from that perspective? It's a new or growing problem for the technology to solve, yes for sure, but the evolution in smog technology has been happening in large part over the last 3 decades. It's just that it's taken until the mid 90's to catch up to off roaders and the manufacturer's to start planning their stake. The sticker price will go up when EFI and other smog reducing technology will be mandated for new off road engines. And you KNOW Honda is going to sell their problems to you with a big, giant, fat smile, every single time they possibly can. I have a close, old friend who has a sort of childish mentatlity that companys make products primarily to help people. This is the result of too much consumption of advertising and not enough exposure to business.

If you're selling off your 250R, you're best to do it knowing that you're commiting to the future, whatever it is, whatever problem its solving, and whatever it costs. The 2strokes with open port technology are the last for a while of a more pure persuit for performance as the primary design goal. There is no valve train and it make a tremedous amount of power for any given size. So if you're cool with that commitment, sell the mo fo. Shiney bolts and paint are nice, plus the 450 is fast and smooth, so there's clearly some consumer benefit to the pill.

Wow, I really chimed in... I'm totally helping this thread digress, but I like to squeeze in some "intellectual" discussion on general user boards like these... :macho
2cents

[All250R]

Originally posted by troybilt
That'd be the Wankel Engine... and it has been around since the 1950's-ish.

Just for discussion, since we are on the subject of quad and future technology. Has anyone ever thought of testing a pnematic motor in a quad? I've got a spare quad laying around that I thought about toying with this. Especially since fuel is what it is today.
The technology that excites me is DI for 2strokes. It's not as simple and cheap as the open port design, but it makes a more efficient combusion process like a 4stroke, but doesn't require the loss of the extra stroke. I think that's the most realistic idea to latch onto and hope for. Honda and the followers have to have it make sense to give up on 4stroke parts though. There is/was an SAE design conference in Detroit I think at some recent or near future date that Honda and the parent company of EvinRude were making a showing to discuss primarily 2stroke technology and pollution factors. I'd have to dig up the email to get specifics. Times have been and are still changing!

[rigger]

Yamaha has been making Direct Injected two stroke outboards for a while now and most of them run very well. I don't see why they would not be one of the first to make a DI two stroke motor for off road. They already know how to do it pretty well.

A yamaha I would probably buy. But if Honda went together with Evinrude to make one, I think I might stay away from that one for a while until it proved it self. The DI Evinrudes like to pop a lot, new and old.

[dynofox]

Originally posted by All250R
The technology that excites me is DI for 2strokes. It's not as simple and cheap as the open port design, but it makes a more efficient combusion process like a 4stroke, but doesn't require the loss of the extra stroke. I think that's the most realistic idea to latch onto and hope for. Honda and the followers have to have it make sense to give up on 4stroke parts though. There is/was an SAE design conference in Detroit I think at some recent or near future date that Honda and the parent company of EvinRude were making a showing to discuss primarily 2stroke technology and pollution factors. I'd have to dig up the email to get specifics. Times have been and are still changing!

I'm not sure how familiar you guys are with the snowmobile industry but ski-doo released a direct injected 600cc 2-stroke this winter that gets better fuel mileage than any other sled out, including 4-strokes. If any quad manufacture is going to build a DI 2-stroke race quad look for it to say can am on the side of it. :cool:

[250r4life]

I will go ahead and tell the story of 2 Die Hard 250r owners (myself and my riding buddy) and how we ended up with YFZ’s…

Lets pick up with the story in the summer of 2004… I had a 89 250r that the engine that hadn’t been touched since it left the factory… I had a Paul Turner Pipe, a K&N filter, a rad valve, the lid off, and dialed in to perfection… reliable as a rock, a great bike… my buddy had an ’88 250r with almost the same story- engine all original, set up roughly the same only he had a Fatty Pipe, and it also ran like a top… we loved these bikes, and never anticipated we would ever sell them… we were competitive at the Hill, and would laugh at the 4 stroke owner (raptors, 400exs, ds 650s…)…

Well, so dune season came around that year, and as the season progressed more and more of these 450s began showing up… although we were able to beat a lot of them, the 450s that had people who actually knew how to ride would beat us… a lot of the time, we would get the launch and would be ahead coming out of the whoops, only to be overtaken on the way up the hill… we were getting beat by inferior riders… although we are all about duning and love carving the dunes and what not, we also enjoy shooting the hill… we don’t have to be the fastest (we would never build a drag bike) but we are also not content if we’re not in the upper percentile…

Well, so we needed to have faster bikes… we were getting beat by lesser riders…

Well, so that summer I decided I would tear into my solid as a rock 250r engine that had never given me any problems, and make it faster… I bought a Duncan 265 PV kit- thing is sweet!!! i've got tons of power, and a super light and nimble bike... i absolutely love it!!! it kinda sucks though, cuz now instead of buying $3 a gallon av gas, im having to spend $6.50 a gallon on race gas... oh-well...

dune season comes, and the 1st trip i line up against a buddy with a raptor 700 with the pipe, filter, programmer, etc... and i totally smoke him! bike is great... the next trip my good riding buddy comes and we line our 250r’s up… my new 265 against his stock bike… I let him get out ahead of me and get a considerable head start, only to run him down like he was standing still… I love my bike… im back in the upper percentile, and im smoking a majority of the bikes at the hill…

well, so my buddy finally concluded that he had to have a faster bike too… he couldn’t bring himself into touching his all original 88 engine… so, he bought a YFZ… he hadn’t ridden one once the season before, and was impressed with it… it wasn’t big and heavy like most 4 strokes, and it also liked to be revved… we went back to the dunes 2 weeks later while his bike was all stock… I would beat him up the hill, but it was impressive how well the bike ran for being 100% stock…

2 weeks later was thanksgiving, and by this trip he had the baffle out, lid off, pro-design K&N, and dialed in… man- it sure woke that thing up!!! He sure picked up a lot of ground quick!!! Im still getting him though… I continue beating most of the bikes I line up against, and he is able to beat a majority of the people as well… although my bike is a bit faster, his suspension is considerably better, and for the 1st time I start to admire having an electric starter…

The next trip was new years trip, and by then he had purchased a HMF exhaust… now it was a battle… he and I would be side by side and have a great race after race after race… neck and neck… the both of us would SMOKE a majority of the other bikes, including other piped 450s… although his 450 was pretty bad, and had less into it and was just as fast as my bike, I still preferred my 250r and didn’t plan on ever getting rid of it…

Well, a couple trips later we were racing the hill, when I lost all compression… my wrist pin bearing had grenaded, and had chewed up my piston, cylinder, and dome… well, that sucked… I paid $200+ to get my cylinder re-nikasealed, another $100+ for my piston, another $60+ for a new dome, o-rings, gaskets, etc… while I had it apart, I had some additional porting and polishing done… I think I was into the rebuild $500 or a little something more… got it back, and man that thing ran like a champ… did a slow break in, took it out several times in the desert, and man, that sucker screamed! I was now able to ride 5th gear wheelies, something I had been unable to do before… that sucker was bad… well, I went down to the dunes for one last trip of the season, and was racing the hill, and on the way back my bike died… I had lost compression again… this time my main rod bearings had given out… my lower end had been inspected and appeared to be fine a couple months earlier during my rebuild… looking back now of course I would have just bought a new crank rod assembly and put it in at that time, but I didn’t… so, there was another build… my bearings had chewed up my piston, cylinder, and dome again… so, I had to do the top end all over again, as well as buy a new crank/rod assembly…

I still love my R at this point, but the YFZ is starting to look better and better… I wouldn’t have to buy race fuel anymore, and I would have better suspension, and I would also have a brand new bike that is under warranty… I decided I was going to give the R one last chance… if something major happened again, that would be it and I would go down and get a YFZ…

Well, dune season 2006 came around, and I had 2 good trips- so far so good… ran like a champ, shot the hill great- I love the bike… 3rd trip of the season im at comp hill racing, go to launch and bike stalls out… pull in the clutch, start it again, let the clutch out and the bike stalls again… my tranny was all messed up! It was locked in gear, and I couldn’t get it to shift, and it wouldn’t move… I get home and start looking at what a set of Yukon gears would cost me, and thanksgiving is only 2 weeks away… that’s it- im buying the YFZ… so I did… I had the baffle out, lid off, and a filter for thanksgiving, and was able to smoke most of the bikes I lined up against… I rode the rest of the season like that, and was able to trade off with my riding buddy that had the HMF ( I am lighter then he is) and had no problems, and had a plenty competitive bike that I only had $150 dollars of aftermarket parts into it…

I ended up tearing down my R, and I had grenaded my 2nd gear into 15+ pieces… I was tired of throwing $ into it, and if I was going to keep it I would have wanted to replace everything in the tranny, which woulda been big money… or I could spend $35 on a second gear, sell my top end, put the stock cylinder on, and sell the bike… i went with the 2nd option…

I’ve got 2 dune seasons on a bike that now is slightly faster than my R, has better suspension, and it took 2 dune seasons for it to have a problem… I had a circlip that holds a gear in back itself out, and that messed up some things in the tranny, but it was all covered by the warranty company… I told the dealership that while they were in there to throw a new Piston on and I would foot the bill for the piston, but they messed up and they only put new rings on… well, a month or 2 later my piston cracked, and it was also covered by the warranty… yeah- it sucked for me to miss out on riding when my bike broke, but it has been sweet to drop my bike off at the dealership and not worry about it at all until they call me to tell me its ready to come pick up…

I have a bike that is dang fast, has great suspension, runs off pump gas, and is under warranty for another few years…

That’s how we wound up with the YFZ’s instead of the 250Rs…

[chris46250r]

And then there are people like me. I've got two 88's and its been two years for one and three for the other since they even had gas in them. Both have had the typical make over of PC'ed frame, all new bearings, seals, top end, wheels, tires blah blah blah. I know they wont bring near what I've got in them but also they aint gaining any value either. I dont really want to sell them but crap, I aint getting anything out of them either. I need the room, never had too much money in my pocket, so I could use that too. The group I ride with now seems to prefer the creek and mud over hills and jumps. Therefore I ride the fricking V-Force every weekend. I'm getting older now and 14 to 15 years of MX has just took its toil on my knees and back so I'm thinking its about time for a drag car. This is just my two cents on why I MIGHT consider getting rid of one or both R's.

[atvmxr]

250r4life, what oil, oil ratio, and fuel were you using??

with your bearings going out like that, I would question the oil quality that was used... ;)

[250r4life]

yamalube 2R @ 32:1... with a mix of VP and av gas...


my rod bearings were nearly 20 years old- i dont think it was the fuel i think it was just their time...

the wrist pin on the other hand, who knows... obviously a high compression motor didnt help, but there is more to it than that as lots of people run high compression without this problem...

[YFZRob]

Originally posted by 250r4life
i dont plan on having it longer than 4.5 years... thats the beauty of it- they are still making them...

my R with no engine work woulda ran forever... but once you get into the engine they dont... i got longer out of my YFZ without any problems than i did with my Bigger Bore R, and when stuff went wrong with the R i had to pay out of pocket... lost my engine twice, and my tranny another time...

with the way i ride i dont expect any bike to last forever...

You modify ANY engine or put tons of hours on it and it will lose reliability, MORE so in 4 strokes!! The POS titanium valves in the YFZ SUCK!! When you rebuild the top end of the YFZ, add a head job to the bill...the titanium valves will be trashed along with the valve seats. After my rebuild on my 2004 which had a good 150 hours, I had to do a valve adjustment ever 3 hours because of the valve seats going to crap. 4 strokes cost a fortune to work on and are NOT fun to swing wrenches on. I'd rebuild the top end of my 250R 4 times to 1 time on a 4 stroke any day, and I'd smile the whole time, every time on the 2-stroke. After my YFZ, the only high output 4-stroke I would own is the KTM 525 because it has stainless valves. It will run 150+ hours before a rebuild and the head will easily go 300+ hours. I have a 2008 KTM 200XCW and my 88 250R that I race. All my other toys are lower output 4 strokes that will run forever without even a valve adjustment....that's the only 4 stroke worth owning. The 250R is damn near bullet-proof considering I have fewer issues with a 20 year old bike than I did my 2 year old YFZ...as long as it stays that way like it should, I will keep racing the 20 year old bike and crushing most of the Z400s and 400EXs I race against in the 0-400cc class...it's a blast powering past them like they are standing still in the open areas :D

[250r4life]

Originally posted by YFZRob
You modify ANY engine or put tons of hours on it and it will lose reliability, D

im not disagreeing with you at all... in fact- that was my point...

however, a stock 250r engine just isnt fast enough... but a stock YFZ can still be made into a bad bike!

[katch26]

couldnt it just be that the 250r hit the bubble?
ex: a car loses value consistently every year to a point when its worthless than it will start appreciating again as a classic collector etc but eventually the value will stop increasing/ level out/ slowly decrease again........plus since its been 20 yrs and the development of the racing 4 strokes parts are getting fewer and more expensive....JMO

[YFZRob]

Originally posted by 250r4life
im not disagreeing with you at all... in fact- that was my point...

however, a stock 250r engine just isnt fast enough... but a stock YFZ can still be made into a bad bike!

Yes, very true....BUT a stock YFZ still has titanium valves that will eventually tear the valves seats up requiring a head job. Unfortunately reliablility in an equally fast 250R just isn't going to be the same. If you can sacrafice a little power...maybe early 450R power, it can be made extremely reliable and they will always be simple and enjoyable to work on.

[All250R]

Originally posted by YFZRob
Yes, very true....BUT a stock YFZ still has titanium valves that will eventually tear the valves seats up requiring a head job. Unfortunately reliablility in an equally fast 250R just isn't going to be the same. If you can sacrafice a little power...maybe early 450R power, it can be made extremely reliable and they will always be simple and enjoyable to work on.
With regard to 250R power, there are a few haris to split in this. Guys like me spend hours upon hours trying to gain an understanding of what small things added up in synergy make a sizeable or more usable power increase. The point is there are signficant differences in realiability:power ratio between all avenues of modication that people do and have done to their 2strokes.

4strokes dont' suffer from this kind of speculation as much because you buy a cam in a box... so no builder is having to study as much abstract physics to gain the power increase in timing that builders and backyard mechanics do with their 2strokes. There's something to be said for a 250-270cc stock system that has been built well as a system. The stock form by the way, as a system was purposefully detuned from Honda. So this makes a large room for improvemnet AND error. The error is something to keep in mind when you're thinking about why a 20 year old machine doesn't seem to run like the owner wants it to and that factor cannot be blamed on age.

Lastly, if the optimum decisions aren't made when modifying the stock engine, there is always displacement. Big bore cylinders don't have to be any less reliable of a motor than a stock engine, provided the owner is reasonable with maintance on the bottom end, and reasonable does not need to come anywhere near 450 maintenance costs especially if you're reasonably handy with tools.

Now take a big bore engine and done as a system by the right guy there is no reason why a 310 can't be putting out fairly reliable numbers in the low 60's, especially if Honda can make a 250cc GP racer that puts out 90hp. These things are negotiable, but the point is that power to size is always on the side of 2strokes, and the 250R is solid enough that going bigger is always an option (how about a new big bore CPI cylinder :D). For the 250R owner, the choices for power and reliability on our side. Personally , I don't care what the market value of the 250R is or any bubble that influences it. 450's don't buy me personally anything that I can't get more of out of in 2strokes.

[GOTFEAR]

well this is what I'm seeing all your buddy's started trying the 4-bangers and all they say you should try one it will make you faster but the thing is I'm kicking their buts more often. I raced a few nationals this year and i was the only 250r on the track. I did see a few riding around the pits

[peeping TOM]

ain,t rode mine for 3 years ,,but when i get back into racing i know i,ll get a better buzz riding my 250r then if i was riding any of the 450,s ..but i understand why ppl do buy new 450's ,everythings fresh and the suzuki's epecially are real good out of the box.