Everybody with 450r front brakes.

[flauge]

Ive had a 450r front brake setup for a while now (05 hubs, spindles and calipers) and have always had a problem with the outer tie rod end hitting the inner lip of my wheel ITP (Itp Beadlock) with the bars turned all the way. Has anybody else had this problem?

i was just about to start looking for parts to do this...now you have me worried...i wonder if it would happen with my hipers too?

[dustin_j]

How dramatic is the difference between 05 and 06 450r spindles? Does one work better on an ex, and is handling affected?

[justin1022]

you guys just baught the spindals? maybe your supst t buy the hole knuckle assembly.

[project400ex19]

try a different off-set on your wheel.

[flauge]

The 06's are supposed to be wider than the 05's I think, and that'll probably mean more feedback to the bars also. Another thing I noticed about the swap was there was a good bit more negative camber too..... Im not using 4:1's, its the next one thats a lil wider, 3:2 i think. Ill take some pics of it this weekend and show yall where its hitting.

[quad2xtreme]

I have 2 400ex quads setup this way using stock a-arms. I started both of them with 2005 hubs, spindles, and calipers. I have now switched both to 2006 & 2008 hubs and spindles.

You can't adjust the camber with stock a-arms and the upper a-arm is 1/4" too short for the geometry of the 2005 spindle. The steering was more difficult with the 2005 spindles.

The 2006 spindles seem to be the same as the 400ex spindles. It feels exactly the same and turns great. Of course, braking is sooooo much better. The front brakes don't wear out nearly as fast either.

Your 400ex brake rotors can be reused. In fact, I am pretty sure the 400ex hubs will fit on the 2006 spindles.

The 450r brake cylinder and lever are nice to have too. The lever is adjustable so you can put it much closer to the bar. I highly recommend this for smaller adult or large child riding a 300ex or 400ex.

I have a set of 2005 hubs and spindles for anyone who wants to go the 2005 route.

BTW, no problem with the tie-rod hitting the wheels on either setup on either bike. I am running 3:2 Hiper double bead lock wheels on both.

[flauge]

Dang I might not have 3:2's then. I got them off ebay about a year ago and I was told they were 3:2. All I know is theyre ITP's and they look OLD. Man, they look like they were made when Moby Dick was a minnow. haha. Maybe they could be 4:1??:confused:
Also quad2xtreme, can you describe how it made your handling more difficult. Just want to see if Im noticing the same thing.

[quad2xtreme]

It actually made it more difficult (more effort) to move the bars in turns and there was a much bigger risk of catching a rut and having the bars pull you in a direction you weren't planning. The only way around this is to invest in a steering damper which was a route I didn't want to take.

If you still have you 400ex hubs and just want to get 2006 spindles, let me know. I will take 30 minutes and pull my 2006 hub off and put the 400ex hub on. Like I mentioned earlier, I am almost positive they are the same. The 2006 setup is so much better than the 2005 setup.

If Honda wanted too, they could easily put the dual caliper setup on the 400ex for 2009. They can just use the 2006 hubs, spindles, and calipers.

If you really wanted too, you can call JD Performance and have a set of custom upper a-arms made. I almost did this so I know he is willing to do it. Basically, you will want to go 3 degrees forward combined with his option for caster adjustment. That would give you about 1 degree, 3 degree, and 5 degree. The main thing is you need upper a-arms that are 1/4" longer to get your camber back into spec. Of course, all the aftermarket a-arms are camber adjustable. Just go back to 2006 spindles. It turns on a dime in the woods.

I just invested $1,000 to get my wife's 2008 450r to turn sharp in the woods. $1,000 for Houser Sli-cast a-arms, extended brake lines, brake holder clamps, and 2005 hubs and spindles (pulled from the 400ex). My point is, there are lots of people with 2006+ 450r(s) that will buy your 2005 hubs and spindles.

[flauge]

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa177/nickvanacore/parts004600x450.jpg

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa177/nickvanacore/parts002600x450.jpg

Try not to laugh too hard at my chipped up a arms. lol. If they make the last 2 races this season Ill get some more.
Quad2extreme, I am running a steering damper, but even with that I still notice that it kinda wants to wander and track ruts. If you can, please take a few pics of the hubs. A pic with it being turned full lock will help too just to see where that tie rod end is.
I just might go to the 06 setup next season. Dang, I knew I shouldnt have sold my stock hubs:mad:

[quad2xtreme]

I will post pictures tomorrow after I get back from riding. I have a few hours to finish putting the 450r back together and then heading to the track.

[quad2xtreme]

Originally posted by flauge
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa177/nickvanacore/parts004600x450.jpg

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa177/nickvanacore/parts002600x450.jpg



I think those are ITP wheels. I used to run those but bent them up too before I switched to Hiper wheels.

[quad2xtreme]

How much toe-in are you running? Post a picture of your quad from the front sitting on level ground with the steering centered.

[flauge]

It was around 0 to 1/8" toe in.. Cant remember which one. But when you look at it from the front or above it really looks like its toed out. Im thinking that the camber makes it looks like that. I'll post a pic for ya tomorrow.

[Wheelie]

I'm very interested in what has been said here. Can anyone confirm without a doubt if the EX hubs will bolts up to 06-up R spindles without any offset issues?

I already have everything I need except hubs. If the 06-up spindles are better, I'll sell my 05 spindles, buy 06-up spindles and call it good.

[quad2xtreme]

Originally posted by Wheelie
I'm very interested in what has been said here. Can anyone confirm without a doubt if the EX hubs will bolts up to 06-up R spindles without any offset issues?

I already have everything I need except hubs. If the 06-up spindles are better, I'll sell my 05 spindles, buy 06-up spindles and call it good.

My wife is working tomorrow evening so I will pull the 2006 hubs off my 2006 spindles and put the original 2000 400ex hubs on it and let you know. I am curious too because this then becomes a pretty cheap upgrade. You only need to buy 2006 spindles and calipers, and brake pads. Even brand new from Yamaha or Troy, the brake calipers are 86.25 and 87.90 each. Anyone know why there is a difference between left and right calipers? I know for sure that the brake rotors are the same. I am running my old 400ex brake rotors with the 2006 spindles.

[Wheelie]

Left and right has to do with the brake line location.

[quad2xtreme]

Originally posted by Wheelie
Left and right has to do with the brake line location.

I meant why there would be a price difference. This isn't the first time I've noticed it. It is the same with the a-arms. One side is slightly higher than the other side.

[flauge]

Just to make sure, the 05 calipers will fit on the 06 spindles right?
I didnt get to take pics today, i forgot my camera. Ill try to get them tomorrow.

[quad2xtreme]

Originally posted by flauge
Just to make sure, the 05 calipers will fit on the 06 spindles right?
I didnt get to take pics today, i forgot my camera. Ill try to get them tomorrow.

yea, the calipers are the same. I will take pictures tomorrow too. I am going to mount the 400ex hubs with 2006 spindles just to confirm it works.

[quad2xtreme]

ok, I mounted the 400ex hub to the 2006 450r spindles and it works perfectly. There are some minor differences between the 2 hubs. All the bearings and the internal collar have the same part numbers. The outer seal and collar are different. As long as you keep them matched, you can swap them back and forth between the hubs. The bolt that mounts the rotor on the 2006 hub is slightly longer than on the 2001 400ex hub.

The alignment of the brake rotor is exactly the same. I was very careful when I removed the brake caliper. After I put the 400ex hub on, I was able to slide the brake caliper right back on (I never moved the brake pads at all during this process).

I have pics that I will start posting shortly.

Bottom line, you can have better braking by simply getting 2006 and up 450r spindles and 2004 and up brake calipers.

BTW, the 2006 hub is slightly beefier than the 400ex hubs where the brake rotor mounts up. I am pointing that out here is case I miss it when I post the pics.

I look forward to the one a-hole out there who is going to take the time to comment on the dirt in the pics. I can hardly wait. So, are you gonna be the a-hole? :eek2:

[quad2xtreme]

pic #1 from the front viewing 2001 400ex hub mounted on the right 2006 450r spindle.

[quad2xtreme]

pic #2 from the back side...

[quad2xtreme]

pic #3 - you can see the difference in the collar and the seal between the 400ex (red) and 450r hub. Also note how the 2006 hub has more metal than the 400ex hub. The 2006 hub doesn't have that cavity area that you can see in the 400ex (red) hub.

[quad2xtreme]

pic #4 - the seal is the same but the part #s for the collars are different. I couldn't see any difference between the two...even the width is the same.

[Wheelie]

Thanks for the info--I'm going to start looking for 06-up spindles.

[flauge]

http://www.photoreflect.com/pr3/orderpage.aspx?pi=03VE00VH040076&po=76




I took a few pics but it didnt really show how much camber it had compared to this one. Time to look for 06 spindles too..
Thanks for the pics quad2xtreme..

[quad2xtreme]

Originally posted by flauge
http://www.photoreflect.com/pr3/orderpage.aspx?pi=03VE00VH040076&po=76




I took a few pics but it didnt really show how much camber it had compared to this one. Time to look for 06 spindles too..
Thanks for the pics quad2xtreme..

Definitely too much camber...looks just like mine with the stock a-arms and 2005 spindles. The 2006+ spindles will solved your problem and handling and steering will be back to normal.

[quad2xtreme]

flauge, get new rims too. :D I tried to get some good pics but I can basically tell you this. I can run my finger between the rim and tie-rod end. I can run my thumb between my rim and a-arm when it is turned as tight as possible.

good luck and watch ebay. I picked up my 2005 setup pretty cheap. I remember at the time that the 2006+ stuff was even cheaper. More people with 2006+ machines are looking for the 2005 setup.

[quad2xtreme]

you should have about 1/4" of toe-in. Once you have your steering straight, use straps to tie the bars tight. I usually strap down to the nerfs. If not, you will knock the steering out of center as you adjust the tie-rods.

[flauge]

Originally posted by quad2xtreme
flauge, get new rims too. :D Anyone willing to give donations? I'll accept cash, check, and all major credit cards.. :devil:haha. These ol Itps have about the biggest inner lip Ive ever seen, but Im still scared to get a brand new set and have them scrape too.:ermm: Ive been wanting Baja's but kinda leery of those too.:scary:

[dustin_j]

Great writeup quad2xtreme! Thanks for doing all the homework on this conversion; it looks like it should be fairly inexpensive with a great outcome. Ebay here I come ;) .