Trouble starting!

[Neeley86]

I recently traded my car for a 2005 TRX400EX. The previous owner said it ran good, but hasn't been ran in about a year. He had an FMF powercore 4 exhaust installed as well as taken to the Honda dealership and re-jetted. Since that has happened he said he only got to ride it once. I immeadiately bought a new battery, premium gas, and sparkplug. After changing all that it still will not start. I removed the carb and cleaned it out, but still no luck. I checked to make sure it was getting spark and it is. While the plug was out I placed my finger over the gap to see it it had good compression which is does. I am pretty sure it is getting fuel as the first time I tried to start it I flooded it and fouled the plug then replaced it with a new one. I still can't get it to start. I have a neutral light, the run switch is on, and fuel is on. Does anyone have any suggestions? I have been trying to read all the forums that have similiar problems but haven't found anything to help yet.

[REDRIDDER]

what do you mean when you say it wont start? does it turn over does it start then stall out etc?

[REDRIDDER]

Is the cdi box aftermarket? unplug it and then plug it back in.

[Neeley86]

It will turn over but not start up.

[Neeley86]

The CDI is stock. I still unplugged it and then plugged it back in but still same problem.

[REDRIDDER]

you say you have spark, what color is the spark? orangeish,blue,pinkish what color is it.

[Neeley86]

It was mainly white with a hint of blue

[REDRIDDER]

you don't have a volt meter by chance do you?

[Neeley86]

Nope

[REDRIDDER]

ok next, is the jetting stock? have you checked the pet cock for a cloog?

[REDRIDDER]

The spark should be a fat blue and consistent.

[Neeley86]

The preivous owner told me that the dealship put in new jetting. How can I check if that has a clog? (this is my first ATV)

[Neeley86]

Do you have MSN messenger?

[REDRIDDER]

no but i see you sent me a pm so that's how we will communicate i guess, it just that i never know when i get a pm unless i check it.

[Hondamaster5505]

Get a compression tester. Just using your finger isn't very accurate..

If it's low on compression it could very well be hard to start.

Also, did you check to see if the valves are adjusted within spec?

[REDRIDDER]

Originally posted by Hondamaster5505
Get a compression tester. Just using your finger isn't very accurate..

If it's low on compression it could very well be hard to start.

Also, did you check to see if the valves are adjusted within spec? he has sent me pics of the spark plug firing it has weak spark. so if you can help him from their it would be greatly appreciated.

[REDRIDDER]

This is why he also fouls his plugs.

[Hondamaster5505]

weak spark hmm.

Well, theres a couple of things here possible.

Check the stator, it could possibly be damaged somehow and not producing a strong spark.
After that I would check the coil. Stock CDI's ever so rarely go bad..

I know you can check the stator with a volt meter to test resistance, but not quite sure exactly how and what wires on the 400ex. I only did it on my banshee before.

For the coil, you can also hook it up to that.

My money is on the stator.

[Neeley86]

Thanks for the tips. Sounds like I need to buy a volt meter.

[Hondamaster5505]

Originally posted by Neeley86
Thanks for the tips. I need to go buy a volt meter.

You can ask your local dealer what resistance it should be reading. I google'd it and can't find jack chit.

If you can find a stator or coil stock real cheap, i would try just replacing it instead of buying the volt meter. It's the easier way.

But if you can find out what wires and what resistance, more power to ya.

Coils are really cheap. Id try that first, if not, i almost guarntee its a stator problem.

[Neeley86]

Sweet thanks. Do you know of any sites to buy replacement parts for a decent price?

[REDRIDDER]

if it comes down to it i have an extra stock coil lying around i will send to you free of charge.I would start checking the coil,cdi, wire harness and the stator.I would also get a hold of a member here his screen name is GPracer2500 he will know what to do i guarantee it.

[Hondamaster5505]

Originally posted by Neeley86
Sweet thanks. Do you know of any sites to buy replacement parts for a decent price?

I know Service Honda usually has good prices. Dont know if they carry coils though.

Your best bet is to post in the for sale section and buy a used one from a trusted member, that way you get it cheap.

If you have the money, the monster coil is supposedly real nice with a gain in power.

[Hondamaster5505]

Originally posted by REDRIDDER
if it comes down to it i have an extra stock coil lying around i will send to you free of charge.I would start checking the coil,cdi, wire harness and the stator.I would also get a hold of a member here his screen name is GPracer2500 he will know what to do i guarantee it.

yeah, gpracer really knows his stuff. more than me by far.

[Hondamaster5505]

neely, where do you live?

If you were close, I wouldn't mind meetin up with you and swapping out your coil with mine to see if thats the problem.

My dad also has a volt meter and all that, and fixes atvs as a side job.

[Neeley86]

I live in Tucson Arizona. pretty far away from PA. Also do you know if a 2004 stator would be the same as on my '05?

[justin1022]

you should try and jump start it

[Hondamaster5505]

Originally posted by Neeley86
I live in Tucson Arizona. pretty far away from PA. Also do you know if a 2004 stator would be the same as on my '05?

Yup! Most of everything on 400ex's stayed the same. The only difference on the 05 motor is the addition of reverse. Which shouldn't affect the stator.

[Hondamaster5505]

Originally posted by justin1022
you should try and jump start it

You know, everytime I see you post in a thread, 98% of the time you make something up and provide not one bit of useful info, mostly just bs you made up.

Tell me how jump starting it will give it a hotter, stronger spark. It won't. And if it does start, it'll run like crap for a couple seconds and stall.

[Neeley86]

Well I went ahead and pulled the stator off and I am buying one from a guy in the for sale ads. Hopefully this will fix it. As soon as I get it in I will update.

[QuadManiac]

You say that you removed the carb and 'cleaned it out'. Did you remove the jets and clean them and their passages individually?

Color of a good spark is very hard to catch on a camera. I suspect that your spark is fine and you have a plugged jet/jets or float valve in your carb. Try spraying some starter fluid in the carb throat and see if the engine tries to catch. If it does, it's very likely a carb issue. If not, it could be weak spark, but I'm very skeptical.

May be too late, but i'd try this before spending money on a stator... you'll be real pissed if you replace the stator and the problem persists!

Good Luck!

[Neeley86]

All outsides of the stator are rubbed/ground down to the point where bare metal is showing. It looks like the protective coating has been rubbed off and bare wire is exposed. Is this normal? If anyone would like a picture to see what I am talking about pm me or email me at michael_neeley86@yahoo.com and I will send a pic. It would be too small to see if i posted it on here. Thanks!

Also, I did not remove the jets I just removed the carb and sprayed carb cleaner into it. I do not know how to clean the jets individually as I am waiting to receive my clymer manual and I have never owned/worked on any atv. I still have pics of the spark if anyone else would like to take a look. Thanks for all the suggestions and help. I really appreciate it.

[Hondamaster5505]

Originally posted by Neeley86
All outsides of the stator are rubbed/ground down to the point where bare metal is showing. It looks like the protective coating has been rubbed off and bare wire is exposed. Is this normal? If anyone would like a picture to see what I am talking about pm me or email me at michael_neeley86@yahoo.com and I will send a pic. It would be too small to see if i posted it on here. Thanks!

Also, I did not remove the jets I just removed the carb and sprayed carb cleaner into it. I do not know how to clean the jets individually as I am waiting to receive my clymer manual and I have never owned/worked on any atv. I still have pics of the spark if anyone else would like to take a look. Thanks for all the suggestions and help. I really appreciate it.

Shoot me a pic, no guarentee's when Ill get a chance to look at it.

And go to the articles section on here, and then theres an article on how to change the pilot jet. Use them to find out how to get to the jets. The main is right next to the pilot.

[QuadManiac]

THen the next question is - what has been rubbing against the stator to rub away the enamel on the wire? Has it expanded against the flywheel?

[Neeley86]

I have no clue what could have caused it. Could it be that the prevous owner used an unsuitable oil? I am assuming from your post that it is not normal wear, is that correct?

[Neeley86]

Update!!
I took the stator into the local Honda dealership and they said that the wear on the stator is normal. So today I took the carb back apart and did clean all junk out of the jets (they were dirty). After that I put it all back together stator and carb. Then it still wouldn't fire. I unscrewed the drain screw on the bottom of the carb with the petcock valve on and no fuel ever came out. There is fuel that comes out of the gas tank when the petcock is turned on but it never comes out of the carb. So I took it all back apart and I am trying to get the pin that holds the float in place out with no luck. I was wondering if there was some special way to get it out or if I just need to tap it a little harder with the hammer? Suggestions?

[Neeley86]

New update.
I got the float pin out with a tap of the hammer. The float was all gunked up and was stuck shut. I cleaned it all off and put back together with good fuel flow now. I tried to start it and I actually got something...but it was a rapid backfires...just BAM...BAM...BAM...BAM...this was all with me holding the start button and choke full on. I moved choke half-way and tried again it idled for about 3 seconds but backfired the entire time then stalled out and shut off...After that I can't get it to turn over again. No backfire, just like it was before this. I checked and I am still getting spark and fuel, but will not start. Any IDEAS? I am thinking it is now a timing issue but I don't really have a clue. And I have never messed with timing, but am willing to learn if someone could give me some advice. Thanks again.

[Neeley86]

After letting it sit over night and most of today I tried to start it again, but it doesn't start (it doesn't even backfire anymore)ANY Ideas? I am willing to try just about anything to get this thing running. I bought an volt meter yesterday but I don't have my manual yet so I don't know what to check or what it should read. Does anyone else think it is timing? Maybe valve clearance? I'm stuck and I have no clue what it could be.

[Neeley86]

I finally got a manual and it says "Start the engine and let it idle and check the ignition timing. The ignition timing is correct if the "F" mark on the flywheel lines up with the index notch in the left crankcase cover at idle. Increase engine speed and make sure the "F" mark begins to move counterclockwise." Does anyone know how I can check my timing if I can't get my quad to idle? Or, if the "F" mark should line up when it is off? Right now the "F" mark does not line up, in fact I can't even see it, but the book says to check it while it is idling. Help!

[shawndog360]

you are going to need to take the head off to wear the cam is and the sprocket to the chain is and on the left crank case side there will be two holes that you need to undo with a alan head to get them out take them out and the one in the middle you need to get a socket to fit it and spin it counter clock wise intil you see a line with a t they will be right beside each other the T will be sideways but when you set it right go back to the top of the head and look where on the sprocket where there should be three lines on it one staight up and two on the side and the 2 on the side should be flush with the top of the head unit. and if there not when you have ur timing right on the left crank case then your going to need to time it right.

[Neeley86]

Thanks for the info. I will try and check this tomorrow and then update with what I find.

[Neeley86]

Alright I checked the timing and with the "T" in the notch I have all three lines on the cam gear where they are supposed to be. When the "F" is lined up with the notch the lines are slightly off, but it may be that the "F" isn't perfectly lined up either. Any suggestions? I bought a feeler gauge to check the valve clearances but it was too big to measure so I have to return it and get another.

[Neeley86]

I checked the valve clearances and the intake side was off it was at about .002 when the book says they should be at.004 so I corrected those. The exhaust valves was right on .005 as the book suggests. I put it all back together and still didn't get it to fire. I still have spark, I just pulled the carb and there is gas inside of the bowl and when I give it throttle gas squirts out of it. Should I take the jets back out and see if they need to be cleaned again? Or is this problem somewhere else?

[Neeley86]

I took the jets back out and cleaned them again although they still looked clean. I am trying to clean out the pilot screw but on my carb it isn't a screw. It is a circle with one side of it flatened. Is there a special tool to remove it?

[rideracelivemx7]

for you having your first atv im very impressed that your brave enough to tare all this down by your self. do you have previous skills? im actually really impressed that your tackling this beast lol. well do this for me. take off the air box cover. inspect that of blockages. turn off the petcock. no fuel. loosen the fuel screw on the bottom of the bowl so you can drain all the fuel out. squirt a nice few jets in there of starter fluid. now on any machine ive worked on. 2-3 squirts is enough to get it at least started. if you need you can keep spraying to work with the rpms if it stays running for a few seconds just to confirm that it is a fuel issue than you can. now if it starts. your knocking out tons and tons of issues. if it starts on the ether then it by passes any fuel clogs and now you know for a fact that its yourcarb, and if this is the problem i suggest taking out the carb and letting it soak in gas for a full 10 hours. completely submerged. the rule of thumb is, if it has spark and has fuel it will start. you have spark and a fuel issue. im putting my money on it that its your carb. please pm me or ask away if you havbe any other questions.

[rideracelivemx7]

in addition to the carb, when your done checking the carb or while your in that area, it might be as simple as your fuel screw is to tight. it sould be at elast 2 turns out. most people around here frun 2.5 turns. try that

[Neeley86]

Yes, I have previous experience in mechanics. I am an F-16 mechanic in the USAF. I can fix $30 million jets but not this $3000 quad! Also my father-in-law is a master mechanic on semis, but he is 1,000 miles away he has been helping over web cam and phone calls. The petcock has a leak as when I turn it off it will continue a slow drip of fuel. When you suggest to spray starter fluid "in there" do you mean in the drain screw hole? where i just emptied all of the fuel out of? Where is the fuel screw located? The airway is free and clear of any debris. Thanks

[rideracelivemx7]

haha oh alright, glad you know what your oding lol nope not in the bowl, when i said take off the airbox lid take out the filter and spray in the boot, or if you have the airbox out you can just spray it in the carb throttleboddy its self.

[QuadManiac]

Have you tried spraying starting fluid (available at your auto parts store) in the carb throat yet? If it tries to run you have good spark and it's still a fuel delivery issue. The backfiring at start implies a very lean fuel/air mixture. Lack of starting due to lean conditions implies either stuck float valve (no fuel in float bowl), plugged pilot jet or plugged passages in the carb.

I don't understand how any 'wear' on the stator windings would be normal, but I haven't been in there on my EX's, just on my Raptor, so I'm not the expert there.

I'll bet there's a MUCH more comprehensive repair manual for your F-16, huh?

Good Luck!

[Neeley86]

I got it to turn over with starting fluid sprayed directly into the thottle body on the carb. It didn't last long but I'm sure it was because I didn't use very much. SO...do you believe it is a clog in the pilot jet? I cannot get it out because it is not a regular screw it is a circle with a flat side resembling a "D" and the tool for this cost like $100 does anyone know how I can remove this?

[Hondamaster5505]

Originally posted by Neeley86
I got it to turn over with starting fluid sprayed directly into the thottle body on the carb. It didn't last long but I'm sure it was because I didn't use very much. SO...do you believe it is a clog in the pilot jet? I cannot get it out because it is not a regular screw it is a circle with a flat side resembling a "D" and the tool for this cost like $100 does anyone know how I can remove this?

:huh

I think you are mixing the two up.

That "D" screw is the air/fuel mixture screw. To get to the pilot and main, you have to take the bottom of the carb off. Then the two jets will be next to each other, and the main jet comes off with a small socket (I believe 6mm) and the pilot just uses a flathead screw driver if i remeber right.

[Neeley86]

Ok, you are correct. I already took the bowl off and cleaned both of the jets in it. I cannot clean the air/fuel mixture screw because I cannot get it out. The bike only seems to want to start with the air box off. I can get it to fire every time with it off but it doesn't want to with it on. The filter is brand new and the box is clean and free of any debris.

[Hondamaster5505]

Originally posted by Neeley86
Ok, you are correct. I already took the bowl off and cleaned both of the jets in it. I cannot clean the air/fuel mixture screw because I cannot get it out. The bike only seems to want to start with the air box off. I can get it to fire every time with it off but it doesn't want to with it on. The filter is brand new and the box is clean and free of any debris.

it sounds like you're too rich. You put the lid off, which makes it leaner, and it turns.

Try some leaner jets. Whats in it now? and try adjusting your mixture screw with go knows what.

[Neeley86]

Well it may be too rich right now because I'm spraying that starting fluid directly into the carb just to see if it will start. I can't get it to start normally yet, I believe that the fuel mixutre screw is either clogged or maybe closed. My Father-in-law has the tool to remove that mixture screw. He is mailing it to me, so when I get it I am going to pull it out and clean it. I am unsure of the jets I believe one is 148, not positive though, I will pull them back out and check, but like I said it is probably too rich because it is running off of starting fluid I sprayed into the carb. I don't even have the gas hooked up.

[steve #7]

I believe your problem is with the automatic compression release. In order for your compression release to work it has to spin over fast. Try and jump start it with a good battery charger. First replace your plug its probably shot from all of your experiments. The compression release works through centrifcal force . The motor must spin fast to kick out the weights. larger cams do not need the compression release because of valve timing overlap which lowers cranking pressure. I have run into this with several 400ex's with the stock battery . They do not have alot of cold cranking amps. If it starts with a battery jump and a new plug its your battery or starter . I have also seen many with after market pipes that had to small of a jet not start after a ride. When you run it lean the plug gets hot when it cools you'll find it won't start because the plug cracks when cooling. Dyna jet kits do not work. You'll make more power with Kehin jets don't forget to raise the needle CHECK MY OTHER POSTS I HAVE NOT BEEN ON FOR AWHILE. Steve

[QuadManiac]

Originally posted by steve #7
I believe your problem is with the automatic compression release. In order for your compression release to work it has to spin over fast. Try and jump start it with a good battery charger. First replace your plug its probably shot from all of your experiments. The compression release works through centrifcal force . The motor must spin fast to kick out the weights. larger cams do not need the compression release because of valve timing overlap which lowers cranking pressure. I have run into this with several 400ex's with the stock battery . They do not have alot of cold cranking amps. If it starts with a battery jump and a new plug its your battery or starter . I have also seen many with after market pipes that had to small of a jet not start after a ride. When you run it lean the plug gets hot when it cools you'll find it won't start because the plug cracks when cooling. Dyna jet kits do not work. You'll make more power with Kehin jets don't forget to raise the needle CHECK MY OTHER POSTS I HAVE NOT BEEN ON FOR AWHILE. Steve

I honestly don't see how this has ANYTHING to do with the symptoms described so far....

If you can't turn your mixture screw, it may well be corroded in place along with corrosion/gunk in the passage from it to the throttle body. You need to get that out, check and clean the passages and go from there.

[Neeley86]

Great News! I got the tool to remove the fuel mixture screw. I removed it, cleaned it, and then put everything back together and she fired right up on the first try. I put some sea foam in with the gas to help clean up anything I may have missed while cleaning the carb out. I finally got to take it out this evening and it was a blast. I want to THANK everyone who helped me get this thing up and running. I also wanted to know if anyone had any suggestions on some relatively cheap mods that would be worth doing (all mine has is an FMF powercore 4 exhaust). Again THANK YOU!

Oh, and I checked my jets and I am running a 38 and a 136. Does this sound right for Tucson, AZ (altitude 2643ft) and the Powercore exhaust?

[justin1022]

no problem ha jk. but to me on the jetting it sounds low.. most pipes you have to jet up? i no a hmf pipe comes with a 165 and stock is 148 or 158.