What can I say...installed 450r carb...wow!!!

[buster024]

So I just got my new 450R carb installed....and what else can I possibly say but WOW, what an improvement! I used one of ZRPILOT's adapters, and it made it a snap. It nearly threw me off in my driveway backing up. I had no idea what a nice upgrade it was really going to be. I can't wait to really try this out on the trails!! It was pretty easy to do, just take your time, and it will work out great!!

5 star upgrade in my opinion!
:D

[AtvMxRider]

Have you done anything to the motor or is it stock?

[buster024]

Right now it's stock. I'm slowly building a 416 stroker. Next step is a port and polish.

[Hondamaster5505]

So it was a big SOTP feel?

I would consider the upgrade myself, but don't know if the hassle of installing it and jetting it is worth it..

What mods are you running and what jets?

[400exMO]

I installed a 450r carb with zr's adapter as well and was impressed. Much better throttle response.

As fas as jetting goes this carb was easier to tune than the stocker.

Def. a nice upgrade.

[sheilla rae]

Originally posted by buster024
Right now it's stock. I'm slowly building a 416 stroker. Next step is a port and polish.

Never,never,never!! polish your ports!

[rideracelivemx7]

ive been dying to do the 450 carb, i think it will complete my build besides a nice fat port job.

why dont polish the ports??

[buster024]

I would consider the upgrade myself, but don't know if the hassle of installing it and jetting it is worth it..

I would definitely recommend it. If you've done any good wrenching on your quad, you've done much harder things. I was fortunate, and bought a carb that had previously been on a 400, so it was definitely a little simpler. However, it would still have been worth it had it not been.

As far as mods, my motor is completely stock. I've got a Yoshi full system, K&N, and a cdi box. That's about it as far as the power plant.

If you can get ahold of one the adapters ZRPILOT made, or have one made at a shop, the whole install is a snap.

.....any why oh why would I not want a port and polish?

[sheilla rae]

Originally posted by buster024
I would definitely recommend it. If you've done any good wrenching on your quad, you've done much harder things. I was fortunate, and bought a carb that had previously been on a 400, so it was definitely a little simpler. However, it would still have been worth it had it not been.

As far as mods, my motor is completely stock. I've got a Yoshi full system, K&N, and a cdi box. That's about it as far as the power plant.

If you can get ahold of one the adapters ZRPILOT made, or have one made at a shop, the whole install is a snap.

.....any why oh why would I not want a port and polish?

...any why oh why...??..wtf..
I... said polish!!

[buster024]

That was supposed to say ....AND why or why, not any....
Alright, so why wouldn't I want to polish the ports? You're the first person I've ever heard that doesn't recommend a polish. I'm very curious as to the reason.

[sheilla rae]

Originally posted by buster024
That was supposed to say ....AND why or why, not any....
Alright, so why wouldn't I want to polish the ports? You're the first person I've ever heard that doesn't recommend a polish. I'm very curious as to the reason. ......hmmm...
..http://mototuneusa.com/the_8_phase_motor.htm

[TheNewn]

Originally posted by sheilla rae
......hmmm...
..http://mototuneusa.com/the_8_phase_motor.htm

God you're unhelpful, why don't you tell us YOURSELF why 'polishing' is a bad idea?

[Hondamaster5505]

Originally posted by buster024
I would definitely recommend it. If you've done any good wrenching on your quad, you've done much harder things. I was fortunate, and bought a carb that had previously been on a 400, so it was definitely a little simpler. However, it would still have been worth it had it not been.

As far as mods, my motor is completely stock. I've got a Yoshi full system, K&N, and a cdi box. That's about it as far as the power plant.

If you can get ahold of one the adapters ZRPILOT made, or have one made at a shop, the whole install is a snap.

.....any why oh why would I not want a port and polish?

Ill have to pm zrpilot one of these days. My dad has a machine shop, so itd probably be easy to build the adapter.

The installation isnt a problem either. Its the jetting that worries me. Im not a jetting guru by far, and hate to mess with that crap.

[buster024]

God you're unhelpful, why don't you tell us YOURSELF why 'polishing' is a bad idea?

hahaha...lol.....totally agree. I scanned that article and didn't find much info on why polishing was such a bad plan. Strange that many of the professional engine builders out there haven't had a bad thing to say about polishing....? I'm guessing Sheilla must be a genius.

[zrpilot]

I think he may be referring to polishing the intake side of the head is a bad idea, but a GOOD idea on the exhaust side!

IMO porting a head should be left to the professionals that have experience in quad motors. Such as Colby at C&D, Laz at GT Thunder, Mixxer, or Chad502EX. All these guys have dyno proven porting that they have used for performance improvements!

BTW he was being very rude.... I wonder if he has ever built a motor or done porting?

[Ruby Soho]

hey guys i have a 450r carb set up for a 400ex for sale if anyones interested

pm for pics and price etc..

[sheilla rae]

Originally posted by zrpilot
I think he may be referring to polishing the intake side of the head is a bad idea, but a GOOD idea on the exhaust side!

IMO porting a head should be left to the professionals that have experience in quad motors. Such as Colby at C&D, Laz at GT Thunder, Mixxer, or Chad502EX. All these guys have dyno proven porting that they have used for performance improvements!

BTW he was being very rude.... I wonder if he has ever built a motor or done porting?

...Hey!!...my Bad!!...I didnt mean to be an ***!!.. Yea..I have ported heads and built motors since 1979...I'm not a "Genius"but a long time mechanic.

Back to the porting...http://mototuneusa.com/the_8_phase_motor.htm

This is a very good read!!...

[sheilla rae]

Originally posted by TheNewn
God you're unhelpful, why don't you tell us YOURSELF why 'polishing' is a bad idea?

.....sigh.....

[zrpilot]

Originally posted by sheilla rae
...Hey!!...my Bad!!...I didnt mean to be an ***!!.. Yea..I have ported heads and built motors since 1979...I'm not a "Genius"but a long time mechanic.

Back to the porting...http://mototuneusa.com/the_8_phase_motor.htm

This is a very good read!!... Have you ever ported a quad head or more specifically a 400EX head?

I read the Motoman's porting secrets and some of it makes some sense, but it is a recipe and all the parts (Carb, head, cam, exhaust) come into play. One thing Motoman claims is that by reducing the flow on a certain bike head he actually made more HP. He probably did, but he did not tell us what the other parts were? Stock carbs, exhaust, cams? It is possible that he found a porting scenario that worked better with the rest of the parts.

Volume vs Velocity?? What you want is a carefull balance of both. Every combination of parts and riding style will have its own air flow needs.

Example: If you cut a 400ex port to half the size in flow area - you would shoot the velocity to the moon but not have enough flow to make any power. If you doubled the flow area on that same engine - you would have more flow but not enough velocity to make good HP with in the operating range of the engine.

On a 400EX, more flow can equal more power everywhere if the carb, intake, and exhaust are there to let it all work together. Take one thing out of the picture and all the porting will do no good.

[jeepthing07]

i know your not supposed to polish intake ports because the fuel will tend to stick to the smooth polished port and drip down in the cylinder. and then it will run like ****. but i think thats why they bead blast the intake ports to "rough it up" after the port them so it don't happen. but yeah i have herd this fur years. polishing the exhaust ports is fine though

[buster024]

porting a head should be left to the professionals that have experience in quad motors

Absolutetly. I have no intention of messing with that one.

Sooooo....back to the carb......ZR...what jets did you have in this one? I didn't even check before I threw it in.

[zrpilot]

I'm pretty sure it is a 170 ( maybe a 175) main and a 50 pilot, needle on the 4th notch from the top. Oh and a little zrpilot magic sprinkled in the float bowl.. just kidding.

Oh BTW,

I sold my exhaust and when I took it off the bike, I noticed there was very little carbon build up anywhere in the whole exhaust. That carb you have was jetted PERFECT for my bike!

[atvhonda-rider]

Hey, i know the big names are great reliablilty. But i guess im just blessed with hometown convenience. If you havn't heard, AREA 51 ( a local shop to me) has built a 450r (motor work low to top port,cam,exhaust ETC ETC) and WON PIKE'S PEAK HILL CLIMB last year and BEAT RECORDS!! His engine was doubted in what he claimed was done, but it checked out, it was all talent! I know Chad (the owner) and he's a great guy. I was happy to stop by his shop yesterday to find out the race this year was another victory! Not only did Steve Tutt (racer) win again but he beat his last years broken record!! Area 51 is a small shop that is wanting growth. Chad knows his stuff left and right and will help you with anything from advice, suggestions or building YOUR bike from scratch. NOT ADVERTISING just letting everyone know that AREA 51 is on the grow from a small shop, and you don't always have to go with the "big name". Just my .02 cents. -Wes

[buster024]

Hey man, I totally agree on the local shop thing. I've got a few great local shops that I may use to do the porting, and/or any engine work I've got cookin'. White Knuckle racing is a fantastic local guy that I'll probably use for most of mods. Of course, I'll always consider GT and all the rest, there is nothing wrong with going local.

[08trx400ex]

i purchased an 05 450r carb to put on my 08 400ex. ive been having issues with my stock one and figured if im ever going to do it nows the time. I have been doing a lot of reading on here about mounting and jetting. I have these few ??'s. the carb is coming with stock jetting. can anyone tell me what the stock jetting is? I have an hmf slip-on, Sparks advance key, cdi box, coil, open air box with k&n and outerwears. What jetting would anyone recommend to even start with? last thing..... is this carb going to mount right up to my motor or am i going to need some sort of adapter? I can machine the adapter if needed or would one of the carb spacers that I have seen on eBay work as well and do away with the difference in length front to rear? thanks for all you guys help in advance. I love this site. has been so helpful.

[buster024]

Hey '08,

I can't help you with the stock jetting....sorry, I'm not sure what it is on the 450. I'm betting you could post that question on the 450 forum, and get an answer in about 10 seconds.

As far as jetting it, read below on ZRPILOT's response to my question. I have very similar mods to you, and it is darn near perfect in mine with what he had in it (170 & 50). I may mess with the air/fuel screw a bit, but it started right up and sounded good right off the bat.

Finally, as far as the adapter, you don't have to have one, it just makes it alot easier. The sticky threads at the top of this forum show you how to do it without the adapter. If you have access to a machine shop, you can make a nice one that won't make you shorten the air box boot. I secretly have an extra one of ZRPILOT's sweet adapters, but my riding partner is going to use it once he gets a new carb. If you wanted, I could send it to you to mock up one yourself, as long as you sent it back. With that thing on it, it damn near bolted right on no sweat. It's a little bit more of a pain without it.

[leasureryan]

So....which is best? FCR, 39mm, 40mm, Edlebrock etc? Looking to get one, but don't know which to choose. I am kinda on a budget, so not willing to pay $400+

and what is average price used and new? I seen edlebrock on ebay $375 free shipping new. FCR better? Couple selling for around $200 on ebay right now....good deal? Which would you choose and why?

[buster024]

The 04-05 450R carb has probably the best reviews as far price, performance, and ease of install. I have yet to hear a good thing about the Edelbrock. In my opinion it's definitely not worth the dough, but I cannot say that it is from personal experience. You can buy a brand new oem '05 450R carb for $160. That's the best deal as far as I'm concerned.

[TheNewn]

Originally posted by buster024
The 04-05 450R carb has probably the best reviews as far price, performance, and ease of install. I have yet to hear a good thing about the Edelbrock. In my opinion it's definitely not worth the dough, but I cannot say that it is from personal experience. You can buy a brand new oem '05 450R carb for $160. That's the best deal as far as I'm concerned.

Couldn't have said it better. Go with the first gen 450R carb brand new from Service Honda.

[buster024]

Definitely a thumbs up on Service Honda......they are the cheapest as far as my research found.

[sheilla rae]

Originally posted by zrpilot
Have you ever ported a quad head or more specifically a 400EX head?


Yes I have and with "Great" results! I did the 65% port reduction too my sons '05 400ex which already had a stage 1 HC, HMF slip on, '04 XR250 CDI, air box lid removed. The port job made more of a noticeable power gain through the entire power band than the four mods combined that I had done in the beginning. I did add an XR400 head gasket when I had done the port job,so that could have made a slight difference in power. But not that much of a difference!

[leasureryan]

tried to go get a carb from Service Honda....what a peice of **** web site...you can't even navigate that junk SOB! Kinda makes me want to pay more just to be able to access one with ease! I don't want to have to WORK....or try and figure out a PUZZLE just to be able to purchase a carb. I like things served to me on a plate when I am the customer...thier web site is so crappy, I don't even want to use them due to it's difficulty. Seems like every button I push takes me to the same place. JUNK!

I can probly get one through work for the same price or cheaper

[zrpilot]

Originally posted by sheilla rae
Yes I have and with "Great" results! I did the 65% port reduction too my sons '05 400ex which already had a stage 1 HC, HMF slip on, '04 XR250 CDI, air box lid removed. The port job made more of a noticeable power gain through the entire power band than the four mods combined that I had done in the beginning. I did add an XR400 head gasket when I had done the port job,so that could have made a slight difference in power. But not that much of a difference!

That sounds good, but do you have dyno runs to show how much power it made before OR after porting?
What did you use to reduce the port sizes?

How do you know that the power wasn't simply moved elsewhere in the RPM band...

[sheilla rae]

Originally posted by leasureryan
tried to go get a carb from Service Honda....what a peice of **** web site...you can't even navigate that junk SOB! Kinda makes me want to pay more just to be able to access one with ease! I don't want to have to WORK....or try and figure out a PUZZLE just to be able to purchase a carb. I like things served to me on a plate when I am the customer...thier web site is so crappy, I don't even want to use them due to it's difficulty. Seems like every button I push takes me to the same place. JUNK!

I can probly get one through work for the same price or cheaper

I had the same experience a couple of years ago. I have found this site more user friendly and very timely in their promptness in shipping. I had seen one for about 170 dollars,but i'm not sure what year 450r it was..

http://www.bikebandit.com/

..hope this helps!

[sheilla rae]

Originally posted by zrpilot
That sounds good, but do you have dyno runs to show how much power it made before OR after porting?
What did you use to reduce the port sizes?

How do you know that the power wasn't simply moved elsewhere in the RPM band...

Nope....no dyno sheets

Just like "Motoman" I used Epoxy.

The main reason I Know is..I have ridden this machine alot and know its characteristics.

Sorry! Its a seat of the pants thing!

[TheNewn]

Well I just looked up the 2005 450R carb on BikeBandit, looks like they want about 215 for it where you can get it for 170? At service honda.

I never had a problem with their website, it really wasn't very difficult. I guess I'll use a site that takes a couple minutes longer than spend 45 dollars more for a single part from a site that's quicker.

[leasureryan]

http://www.hdlparts.com/fiche_section_detail.asp

it was $176 trough Honda direct, plus $7.50 handling

$215 through bikebandit

I still may be able to get it a little cheaper through work, but if not, Honda Direct will get my business due to haveing an easily navigated web site!


anything needed to make it fit? Cable, etc?

[zrpilot]

Originally posted by sheilla rae
Nope....no dyno sheets

Just like "Motoman" I used Epoxy.

The main reason I Know is..I have ridden this machine alot and know its characteristics.

Sorry! Its a seat of the pants thing!

I don't doubt that your son's quad showed a seat of the pants power gain, but reducing the port size by 65% and porting, in my opinion, just does not equal more power. Eventually those ports simply can't flow any more.

I have an '05 that I had a VERY reputable engine builder port it. With a Sparks Exhaust, 450R carb, HRC Cam, a 10.8:1 Wiseco piston it made a solid 38HP, proven on the dyno.

I seriously doubt that reducing the ports by 65% can make more power then my motor. It seems to me that the porting may move the available power/torque lower in the RPM range....

[08trx400ex]

thx for the info Buster. The sizes you gave are they DynoJet or Keihin? Thx 4 offering up the part but I got a father with 40 years mechanical experience and he gets off on doing that kind of stuff so I would h8 2 take that from him. Im just looking for the right way the first time since I have had my biketorn down for a month now. Running too rich even after complete carb rebuild twice and every adjustment I can make. Im hoping that the compression is ok but im gonna test that tomorrow. either way the carb is my next mod.

[sheilla rae]

Originally posted by zrpilot
I don't doubt that your son's quad showed a seat of the pants power gain, but reducing the port size by 65% and porting, in my opinion, just does not equal more power. Eventually those ports simply can't flow any more.

I have an '05 that I had a VERY reputable engine builder port it. With a Sparks Exhaust, 450R carb, HRC Cam, a 10.8:1 Wiseco piston it made a solid 38HP, proven on the dyno.

I seriously doubt that reducing the ports by 65% can make more power then my motor. It seems to me that the porting may move the available power/torque lower in the RPM range....

OK...my mistake the 65% reduction is in relation too the intake valve size. The intake "choke point" is reduced to 65% of the intake valves diameter. Not a 65% smaller port.

[buster024]

Hey ZR, do you have the specs you used to make your part, or are you holding it secret for a future patent??:D

[zrpilot]

Originally posted by buster024
Hey ZR, do you have the specs you used to make your part, or are you holding it secret for a future patent??:D

Nope no secrets... give me a day or two and I will post a drawing of the ZR adapter.

[buster024]

I will post a drawing of the ZR adapter

That might be a pretty kick *ss thing to post on the 450 carb sticky, or under the how-to section.

[MtnEX]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by zrpilot
I don't doubt that your son's quad showed a seat of the pants power gain, but reducing the port size by 65% and porting, in my opinion, just does not equal more power. Eventually those ports simply can't flow any more.

I have an '05 that I had a VERY reputable engine builder port it. With a Sparks Exhaust, 450R carb, HRC Cam, a 10.8:1 Wiseco piston it made a solid 38HP, proven on the dyno.[/

I seriously doubt that reducing the ports by 65% can make more power then my motor. It seems to me that the porting may move the available power/torque lower in the RPM range.... QUOTE]

Wow... that is a lot of power coming out of a 400EX!

That's what?... a good 1.5 times the stock power?

That's getting up there near the HP my Sport 400 makes.

Now if you could just get it to go from 0 to 38hp as fast... with the weight difference and better handling... now that would be nice!

[buster024]

Fyi, for anyone wanting to install the carb, take these measurements to your local fab shop, and have them make one of these for you out of aluminum. It really makes the install a snap.

ZR -- what was the stock material that you used to make this thing? I'm in the pipe business, but we don't sell aluminum 1/4 wall that often (if ever).

[zrpilot]

I machined all mine from a solid billet of aluminum.