Jetting yes I know!

[Honda#4]

Well for the last 2 weeks ive been trying to get my jetting dialed in but have been coming up short my specs as of right now are

42 Pilot
Needle on 3rd slot, ran better on 2nd but was lean at mid
K175
A/F screw somewhere around 2 1/2 turns out not sure though
Lid on but has 9 prefilters in

Motor mods
WB slip on pipe
416 running 10:8:1 comp
C&D Ported head
Hotcam Stage 2


My question is im still lean on top and alittle rich at mid im already above the jetting specs that Colby told me, IDK what else to do. Is it possible that my carb is just to small to let more fuel in i know upgrading to a 450r carb is nessicary but I cant spend anymore cash at the moment but may end up having to. I've looked at many jetting figures but I cant seem to find a figure that is close to what I run.

[drew416ex]

How do you know you are running lean on top. I had the same setup as you with a 160-165 main and it ran great. Remember, your needle circuit is fed through the main, so if it is rich with the clip on the third position, your main may be too rich.

[Honda#4]

It pops pretty bad wide open and the plug is white. I had a dj142= to a K165 i think or close and it was still lean before I switch to the K175. I read before and if im not mistaken that a very rich setup will result in a slight lean condition I never witnessed this before so IDK if its true or not but this could be why im lean.

Hornetgod i'd like your take on this also?

[drew416ex]

A very rich setup wouldnt cause it to be lean, but it would cause it to pop and not run correctly. How long has that spark plug been in there. Some engine builders say it has to be in the engine for at least a tank before it will start to turn colors.

[Honda#4]

The plug has been in there for a tank, i'll take the main back down to a 165 and put a new plug in and see.

[BigBore24]

i would def think your clip should b in the 3rd or maybe even 4th slot. i also think that 165 is too high. you may have already checked but be positive you have no air leaks at all. i would think with yoiur setup youd b around 160 with needle on 4th slot. if i remember right the stock carb has 5 slots, right?

[mopar2dvs4u]

hey i had simalar problems i went throught a bunch of jets and settings but found mine runs best with a 42 pilot and a 185 main needle on 4th notch down and about 1 1/2 turns out on mixs screw i have a pro curcuit t4 and k&n no air box lid just ran it for about 6 hours on friday put new plug in and 93 gas plug came out tan also live in mi and i think it was about 88 out side also i started with a 165 and just keep going up main jets are easy to change throught bottom of carb hope this helps

[Honda#4]

Yea the needle has 5 slots, well I know im too rich with a 175 so I think a 165 might be close, its starting to pop alot more now sense were in the mid to higher 80's now.

I'd actually kinda like it if the lid was on cuz I hate the noise through the back of the carb and plus I feel a bigger increase in throttle response with the lid on

[Honda#4]

So I put in the 165 main without the lid and it did seem to help, I have no more popping at WOT but it doggs under load everywhere and the plug is still white in the middle but is black on the rim of the plug. I like jetting but i'll be damned if I can find a happy medium. I still think im getting to much air with the lid off but its hard to say. I'd really like to get this thing tuned on a dyno just for the purpose to see where my HP is at but no one around here has a mobile dyno.

[drew416ex]

I did a search on dynojet and there are 3 places with their dyno in wisconsin. They are in Kaukauna, Menasha, and Thiensville. I dunno if they are close to you but Ill bet there is someone that you could bring it to.

[Honda#4]

Thanks man, I appreciate it, them places are around 3-3 1/2 hours away from where I live.

Tomorrow I think im gonna throw in a 168 main to see if that will work, theres a very slight brown on my plug so I think im getting close on the main but I feel im gonna have to go back to the second slot on the clip cuz thats where I got arm jerking power from.

[drew416ex]

Sounds good!

[Honda#4]

Well I changed my main yet again to a 168 i'll do a WOT run soon but I got my A/F screw set at 2 3/4 from lighty seated. Seems like midrange is doggy so I might have to drop my needle to the 2nd slot but my screws inside the throttle piston are gettin bad so i'll have to order some of them.

I feel like im getting closer though.

[Def-e-nition]

Hi Guys . Right . Now I have a question that some of you might be able to help me with .

What are the Differences between doing the following .

160 Dyno ,clip on recommended 3rd position, vs 170 Dyno clip one notch closer to the top ?

Why I'm asking , is because I'd obviously like to run as big a Jet as possible , but when I run 170 it smells too rich . SO - I was thinking . Instead of going down to a 160, or a 165 , Could I not simply Raise the clip one Position Higher on the needle instead ,(leaning it out a little ) while having the 170 in ? ? ? ? ?

I do changes in small increments , as anybody should , but I do Not seem to be able to tell the difference between 160 , and 170 , other than that my pal says he can smell too much petrol in my exhaust fumes . It also Idles MUCH easier with the 170 , so I am Looking for some oipinions on running the larger jet size but simply dropping the needle clip one notch up .
As i said , the 160 seems to run fine, but so does the 170 .

so guys , What Gives ?????

And sorry to hi jack this thread , I just didn't want to go make an entire new thread for a simple question .
Thanks .
Stuart

[drew416ex]

Originally posted by Def-e-nition
Hi Guys . Right . Now I have a question that some of you might be able to help me with .

What are the Differences between doing the following .

160 Dyno ,clip on recommended 3rd position, vs 170 Dyno clip one notch closer to the top ?

Why I'm asking , is because I'd obviously like to run as big a Jet as possible , but when I run 170 it smells too rich . SO - I was thinking . Instead of going down to a 160, or a 165 , Could I not simply Raise the clip one Position Higher on the needle instead ,(leaning it out a little ) while having the 170 in ? ? ? ? ?

I do changes in small increments , as anybody should , but I do Not seem to be able to tell the difference between 160 , and 170 , other than that my pal says he can smell too much petrol in my exhaust fumes . It also Idles MUCH easier with the 170 , so I am Looking for some oipinions on running the larger jet size but simply dropping the needle clip one notch up .
As i said , the 160 seems to run fine, but so does the 170 .

so guys , What Gives ?????

And sorry to hi jack this thread , I just didn't want to go make an entire new thread for a simple question .
Thanks .
Stuart

You cant lower the needle and have it affect the main jet circuit. The needle controles 1/4 to 3/4 throttle and the main does 3/4 to full. And also it wont make a difference on the idle when you change the main because the pilot jet and mixture screw controle that. Get the largest jet you have and run it. If it bogs, go down in size until you feel performance is best then go up one size and you should be good. But like I said, the main controls only 3/4 to full throttle.

[Honda#4]

I agree with drew, you have to jet for every circuit or adjust the circuit, you cant go and jet for two circuits that have two different thottle positions it doesnt work that way.

Once you get one circuit right the rest should be down hill. I've had a hard time trying to find the right main jet but I finally think I got the right one.

[Def-e-nition]

Drew, 4, thanks .
When you say starts to bog - you mean overfuel , and then cause .....What ?does the motor Not reach max revs, or pull not as strongly ?
I rode again today , and I honestly think the guys are mistaking my smoking engine for overfueling .
Think I'm going to get her on a dyno , just to see what the A/f is between 160 Dyno and 170 . Bothers me that most of you seem to be able to tell a marked difference between 2 jet sizes , yet after 2 years of riding I cant tell squat !Still pulls hard , although I did Notice with the bigger jets that on decel it does pop more .
It even popped today with the 160 in .But very little , not enough for me to scream"overffuelling".
Especially after feeling it pull with the 170.

But thanks guys . Needle is hereby eliminated as not being under the spot light . wrong (read Other ) circuit .
Thanks

[Honda#4]

My take is that when the cylinder gets to much or overfills with fuel(being rich) the spark cant ignite all the fuel and overloads(bogs) the motor and there for it wont reach full potenial it will feel sluggish, thats why when you crank over the motor so much you get the smell of gas which comes outta the exhaust port.

IDK if it pretains to this but I tried lol.

[Def-e-nition]

yip .
Jetting is one of those things that fills pages and pages of Internet forums.
And while there is a difference , or any room for improvement , we will not stop until we Find that improvement .
And by that time , the bike is starting to smoke all over again , and it's time for a re bore ....!

[Honda#4]

I was always thinkin of buying one of those wide band sensors but after everything is all said and done to me its not worth it. Takes me a minute to take the carb apart and stick a jet in it.

I think instead of having jetting questions here and there I wouldnt mine having a site thats totally 100% about jetting.

[Honda#4]

Well here's some pics I took of my plug, currently it has a 168 main,clip in the 3rd slot from top, and the screw out 2 3/4 from lightly seated, what the heck is going on with this?

[Honda#4]

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[Honda#4]

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[Honda#4]

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[Ruby Soho]

thats odd.. id clean it and then run it alittle and pull it and see what it looks like again

[Honda#4]

The top end feels alot stronger sense I put in the 168, but the midrange is doggy.

I'm getting lost in this jetting forest!

[Honda#4]

So I cleaned it up pretty good and just got back from another run, gotta wait a bit for it to cool down then i'll check.

I swear if I cant get it right then it will become my new QOTM project.

[Honda#4]

OK so I cleaned it up like Ruby said and got this, its safe to say this does not make me happy.

[Honda#4]

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[Honda#4]

3

[Honda#4]

4

[Honda#4]

There's no tan on the electrode part and the tip of the bent thing is completly grey in color.

[drew416ex]

Ive been told it actually takes a while before the thing will actually change colors. Like 1 or 2 tanks. Oh and as far as it running better with the 168 and the midrange going to crap. Dont worry about it until you get your main set. Since the needle circuit runs through the main jet, it will change as you change your main so dont worry wiht it until the main is set.

[Honda#4]

Problem is I cant seem to get my main set. For starters when I go to start the quad from being cold the A/F screw sounds to rich at 2 3/4 out so I think I'll try going down to 2 turns to see if that will help.

If indeed your correct about saying it takes awhile for it to take affect then how can people do a plug chop and expect it to have the right color?

I almost have gone through a tank sense the rebuild.

[drew416ex]

Im not sure how long it takes, thats just what ive been told. The best way to set the fuel screw is to warm it up and while its idleing turn the screw in until it starts to idle up. Then turn it back out until it goes back to a normal idle and go another 1/2 out from that point.

[Honda#4]

Sounds good, I think i'm pretty close though with the screw, atleast I know where thats at. The needle is gonna have to go back to the 2 slot cuz thats where my midrange power was, seems fishy to me about that spot. The main what can I say at 175 the thing popped like crazy but then I went down to a 165 and the topend felt loose in the throttle so then I went to a 168 and it seems alot better but could be better IDK if they make a 168.5.

I'll ride it more and update periodically.

[drew416ex]

They dont make that but the next size up is a 170.

[Honda#4]

I may have to try that, hopefully it doesnt pop like the 175 did.

[Def-e-nition]

Originally posted by Honda#4
Problem is I cant seem to get my main set. For starters when I go to start the quad from being cold the A/F screw sounds to rich at 2 3/4 out so I think I'll try going down to 2 turns to see if that will help.

If indeed your correct about saying it takes awhile for it to take affect then how can people do a plug chop and expect it to have the right color?

I almost have gone through a tank sense the rebuild.

#4 - If I may :

Plug chop . Ok . Here's the trick .What they mean by a plug chop is Literally That - they physically run the Plug from Idle , through all the gears - and then - with the throttle wide open , Kill the Engine , Pull in the clutch , and let the bike run to a standstil .

Now comes the part you and I Don't do - they literally remove the Plug from the Motor, take a saw , and CUT OFF THE THREADED PART . This will then reveal the Bottom Part of the Ceramic TIp .And the Tan you were so Looking for .
In there - you will find a ring of colour , caused or left behind , from the brief combustion process (A new plug is always used , so the elctrode tip is always Clean and White ) Whatever it is , reveals how your engine is running .
And that , my good man , is known as a "PLug chop " .
I kid you not !

So , this might explain why both you and myself , were and are , completely Baffled by The way people use the "chop" to read the inside of the Engine .

I promise to go Onto my hard drive tomorrow , and find you an example of how this is done . I got it off the site somewhere , and I could not believe my eyes when I saw just how they want us to use the Plug as a sort of crystal ball blank page as to what's goin on inside the Motor .

PM gp racer 2500 . He' Might Know where the link to that post is hidin .
I really wanted to give you some feedback on what your plug Looks like , but , truthfully , I cant decide whether I need to comment on the soot build up around the outer edge , or the grey colour on the electrode .

I'll go look for those pictures , and post em asap .

[Honda#4]

I appreciate it Def thanks. I'll cut the plug I got in my quad tomorrow to see what it looks like, then untill I get more i'll just clean one of my old ones up and stick it in.

I have seen where people cut the plug before but I have always gone by if its brown on top then its good to go.

[Def-e-nition]

Originally posted by Honda#4
I appreciate it Def thanks. I'll cut the plug I got in my quad tomorrow to see what it looks like, then untill I get more i'll just clean one of my old ones up and stick it in.

I have seen where people cut the plug before but I have always gone by if its brown on top then its good to go.


So did I bud , so did I .

[Def-e-nition]

............the other alternative , of course, is to make a test rabiit of yourself , and try out the dial a jet thingie for all of us .
they say it's fool-proof .Might you want to test that theory . I , for One , would be keen to know just how the dial a jet principle works , and if it takes over the function of us removing and fitting main jets all the time .

come on . Be a sport :)

[Honda#4]

I have a dirtwheels issue with that being talked about and they say it helps at higher elevations. I'll have to read it over to see.

I really cant spend anymore money right now on the quad. Funds are getting low plus I have a wedding to save for.

[Def-e-nition]

Wedding !!!!
Ohhhhhh Yea !!!!
Why you even bothering to set- up your Quad dude- She's Never gonna Let you go for a ride More than twice a Month !!
Lol

My wife annoys me with her "4 rides a year " strategy .

She hardly Ever rides .

[Honda#4]

She actually encourages me to ride my quad and is the one that convinced me to do my rebuild and build my quad up with Roll Design, shes the best almost wife ever!!

She knows a good thing or two about quads.

[drew416ex]

Originally posted by Honda#4
She actually encourages me to ride my quad and is the one that convinced me to do my rebuild and build my quad up with Roll Design, shes the best almost wife ever!!

She knows a good thing or two about quads.

I have this same problem. My almost wife also encourages me to do stuff to it and go ride and she offers to buy stuff for it. Its pretty sweet.

[Honda#4]

She did buy some grips for me for our one year aniversary which was really sweet. If she asks me for a quad I think im in trouble or in heaven idk.

[Def-e-nition]

I think you guys are just plain bloody Lucky .
I think If I do Just One more sport or activity on my own , I might as well do my weekends Via correspondance !!

Between the Quad , Vfr , and my fishing addictions - the wife is out-gunned and out-manned ! I wish SO that she would get up early one sunday Morning and tug me out of bed to come with .
Sadly - We have 2 great kids - which slows things down !!

[Honda#4]

What does ur kids like to do? Maybe if you find something that you can do together as a family it maybe quite fun.

[Def-e-nition]

My son Loves the smell of Fish , and Petrol . My Wife , Not .............:ermm:


The bike I bought for her , and Ltz 250 - I accounted to wanting to buy HIM One .
He's 3 1/2 ......................! Lol .
so yes , I would just like the wife to wake me up one day and say" Honey - Look - I bought you a New sprocket and chain !!! !" .


:p

[Honda#4]

LOL! My bro loves fishing too, when I ask him "well why dont you buy a quad like mine" he's like why and gives me a crappy look, he's got a 06 rubicon and I tell ya that thing is worse than driving a tank, when I drive it im like this thing has so much bumpsteer which they do, then im not use to the suspension on it, its so bad I get a sore *** from driving 10 mintutes on it. Basically after I get done riding I have to go ride my quad just to get a good feeling back in me. Plus he still owes me like $150 from rolling my quad back when I bought it.

My parents are anti sport quad people but thats a whole other topic that I could vent on.

[Honda#4]

FINALLY!! I got this quad rippin now, midrange and top are killer. The final jetting is 42 pilot,170 main,needle on 2nd slot from top and the A/F screw 2 1/4 out from lightly seated but I have to adjust it cuz it has a slight cough at idle thinking about 2 turns out should do the trick.

I cant believe that at a 175 it would pop, just shows I guess how the jetting process works.

Thanks to everyone for there input much appreciated.