400ex won't start electrical problem

[tman12345]

my 400ex won't start, i don't know what the problem is but when i press the starter button, nothing happens at all earlier it sparked at the exhaust and later it clicked near the battery one click, not click click click. the lights don't turn on, but the neutral light does. can someone please help?

check your fuse...

[rid3r3d33]

yeah there is probably a short in the fuse somewhere. those are the worst b/c there almost impossible to find. sorry dude.

[tman12345]

Originally posted by rid3r3d33
yeah there is probably a short in the fuse somewhere. those are the worst b/c there almost impossible to find. sorry dude.
so what do I need to do? replace fuses?

[QuadManiac]

Originally posted by rid3r3d33
yeah there is probably a short in the fuse somewhere. those are the worst b/c there almost impossible to find. sorry dude.

LOL.. a short in the fuse means uhhh that the fuse is still WORKING... an OPEN in the fuse indicates a failure. If you hear a click, your electrical system and the fuse is just fine.

Single click (which is the starter relay's contacts closing) often indicates a loose or corroded battery connection, or less often a bad cell in the battery and even less often, a bad starter or a seized motor.

Remove, clean and retighten your battery lugs. Also check the tigtness of the large lug connections at the starter relay (next to the battery), at the starter and where the ground cable from the battery bolts to the frame or engine block (forget where it is).

If the connections are all clean and tight, try jumping from a known good battery and see if it will start. If so, either your battery is not charged or old and dead.

Else, we have a bit more troubleshooting to do, but it isn't hard.

Good Luck!

[tman12345]

alright so right now my battery is getting charged by my friend and i'm going to go clean up all the connections and stuff. thanks guys.

[tman12345]

ok so i charged the battery, clean all the connections with contact cleaner and still no go. It does not click once every time, but when it does not click, nothing happens no lights, no clicks, nothing, just silence. but occasionaly the neutral light will come on and it will click one time. need some more help please.

[blaaze416]

Originally posted by QuadManiac
If the connections are all clean and tight, try jumping from a known good battery and see if it will start. If so, either your battery is not charged or old and dead.

....and make sure your battery ground wire and/or sheath is not cracked or broken. Mine did this and the ground wire had worn away by rubbing the frame to the point there wasn't enough wire to support a strong start, but the lights would work sometimes.

[tman12345]

the ground is good, should i replace the fuse, theres only 1 right?

[blaaze416]

Originally posted by tman12345
the ground is good, should i replace the fuse, theres only 1 right?
Personally never had to replace the fuse, but I believe there is only one, and a spare next to it. I guess check it...replace if needed?

[tman12345]

well i checked the fuse and its fine, i have no idea what to do. Anymore advice, anything will help. Let me recap, i tried to start my quad, sparks come out near header/muffler meeting spot, then nothing happens no clicks of battery or sound of motor turning, silence, occasionally when i would hit the start button there would be a single click. the battery was charged and it did not help, i checked the wiring, everything seems alright and fuse is fine. please help.

just on the electrical topic, my brothers quad wouldnt start, it made clicking noises and it sounded like it was coming from the solenoid or something. Changed the battery and the fuse that was busted and it was good to go. Something interesting we did figure out how to hotwire a 400ex very easily. It scared us both that the quad could start without a key and just a wrench lol

[blaaze416]

So... did you ever get around to jumping the quad from a good battery? I never read that you did that. You car will do the trick. Also, I'm clueless as to why it would be sparking from the exhaust side..? I don't think there should be any connections over there...:( . Maybe take off you neg. lead on the battery, then take off your exhaust and see if there is some sort of homemade ground that has made it's way loose. Unless you are the only owner and know that's not the case. Sorry man.

[tman12345]

yea i'll have one of my friends come over and try to jump it, and i'm the third owner so... i'll let you know how that goes.

[QuadManiac]

Also try shorting across the two large lugs on the starter relay (solenoid) with a large screwdriver. Do this just briefly (you'll get sparks) with the bike in neutral. If the starter cranks with this test, and you hear a click when you press the start button otherwise, the starter relay is bad.

I don't understand your statement about sparks at the exhaust. Is the starter cranking the engine when this happens or is it silent? If not cranking, then I suspect you may have an intermittent short between a wire in the harness and the pipe or muffler. Look carefully for a wire near the exhaust that may have melted insulation...

Or else, where does the battery's ground cable connect to the frame/engine block? Perhaps a previous owner bolted it to the wrong location (like at a muffler mounting bolt?) so you are getting significant current flow through the pipe... this is pure speculation, but could explain sparks at the slip joint between the pipe and the muffler, if they are not combustion related. Try pressing the start button while physically putting force in different directions on the muffler/pipe joint and see if you can get the bike to crank... this may tell you that the ground current is passing thru the pipe to block and that the ground is in the wrong place.

Also, take a jumper cable and run one lead from the battery ground to a good clean spot on the engine block to eliminate the possibility of a bad ground connection, then try everything again.


Of course, all of these tests rely on a good, well charged battery, so you may have to do them while using jumpers to another KNOWN good battery.


Good Luck!

[tman12345]

Originally posted by QuadManiac
Also try shorting across the two large lugs on the starter relay (solenoid) with a large screwdriver. Do this just briefly (you'll get sparks) with the bike in neutral. If the starter cranks with this test, and you hear a click when you press the start button otherwise, the starter relay is bad.

I don't understand your statement about sparks at the exhaust. Is the starter cranking the engine when this happens or is it silent? If not cranking, then I suspect you may have an intermittent short between a wire in the harness and the pipe or muffler. Look carefully for a wire near the exhaust that may have melted insulation...

Or else, where does the battery's ground cable connect to the frame/engine block? Perhaps a previous owner bolted it to the wrong location (like at a muffler mounting bolt?) so you are getting significant current flow through the pipe... this is pure speculation, but could explain sparks at the slip joint between the pipe and the muffler, if they are not combustion related. Try pressing the start button while physically putting force in different directions on the muffler/pipe joint and see if you can get the bike to crank... this may tell you that the ground current is passing thru the pipe to block and that the ground is in the wrong place.

Also, take a jumper cable and run one lead from the battery ground to a good clean spot on the engine block to eliminate the possibility of a bad ground connection, then try everything again.


Of course, all of these tests rely on a good, well charged battery, so you may have to do them while using jumpers to another KNOWN good battery.


Good Luck!

i will do all of this and post again. the comment about the exhaust is it sparked in the picture in the red circle, where header meets muffler. it did not do anything except spark, nothing at all no engine cranking or anything and it has not done any cranking at all just occasionally a single click. thanks for the help i will post back the results soon.

[tman12345]

heres pic

[tman12345]

Originally posted by QuadManiac
Also try shorting across the two large lugs on the starter relay (solenoid) with a large screwdriver. Do this just briefly (you'll get sparks) with the bike in neutral. If the starter cranks with this test, and you hear a click when you press the start button otherwise, the starter relay is bad.

Is the starter relay labeled number 10 in this picture, and the nuts on top of that are those the ones to try shorting?

[blaaze416]

^^^ I do believe so.

[Gatekeeper]

Mine just started doing the same thing except I didn't see any sparks anywhere.
Bright lights but press start button,click, and lights go out(and stay out).
I push started it and then everything worked normal. Even start button worked fine.
A few hours later same thing happened. Push started once , then it was fine.
A few days later, did it again.:ermm:
Ill have to clean/check all my connections and fuze. They looked fine.
Think my starter is sticking? Or relays bad?

[CSR400EX]

if its arcing by the exhaust, make sure that the starter wire is away from the exhaust. it might have melted the wire and is arcing out on the exhaust.

[lorenjr83]

someone else had a problem like this and it was trying to ground thru the exhaust not the frame. clean up your sub frame connections and see what happens

[blaaze416]

Originally posted by Gatekeeper
Mine just started doing the same thing except I didn't see any sparks anywhere.
Bright lights but press start button,click, and lights go out(and stay out).
I push started it and then everything worked normal. Even start button worked fine.
A few hours later same thing happened. Push started once , then it was fine.
A few days later, did it again.:ermm:
Ill have to clean/check all my connections and fuze. They looked fine.
Think my starter is sticking? Or relays bad?

this sonds exactly like mine when my battery ground was very close to braking, and did not knwo it. I figured it out once it finally broke and I saw the two halves.

[QuadManiac]

Yes, those are the lugs to short across.

Gatekeeper - since your lights go out too, one of your battery cables is probably loose, or the battery has a bad (intermittent) cell, or your fuse is loose in it's connector.

[Gatekeeper]

Thanks, Im gonna go over all the wiring tonite. When it cools down a bit:blah:

[Honda4lyphe]

Ive had a simular problem. To fix it i had to hit the battery with my foot, just a friendly kick and it worked, so i figured something got corroded. I took it all apart and sure enough i found a good bit of corrosion, cleaned it all with steel wool and sand paper. So just clean every bit of corroded areas on your battery then try, if still no go then go back over all your wires running your index finger and thumb to make sure you dont find a lump, twist, or any other obstruction, if you do, fiddle with it and try to start it. Another thing to try is to press your starter button really hard, with both thumbs, just to make sure theres no a bad conection there. Mine had a bad connection so it took alot just to get that button pressed in good enough for it to start. Just throwing some things out there.

[tman12345]

Sorry it took so long for me to get to this but I have been fixing my truck. So i tryed to jump the battery off of a good one and it produced the same no clicks so I guess its not the battery. Then I tried the two starter relay lugs thing and there was no sparks or anything. Does this mean I need to replace the starter relay

[tman12345]

oh yeah the neutral light is not coming on lights neither, no clicks anywhere either.

[QuadManiac]

I suspect your battery ground cable is tied to the wrong place. It should connect to the main frame or to the engine block. Fix your ground and your problems will go away.

Try the jumper cable ground test, as I described before, to verify.

[tman12345]

ok i took a jumper cable and attached one to the battery ground
and one to the engine block. Then i tried to start the motor and it did not go, then i tried to short it with the two lugs and it did spark but it did not crank the motor.
heres where my ground is
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd22/tman0987/poo006.jpg
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd22/tman0987/poo007.jpg

but while looking around, i noticed one of my four subframe bolts is snapped off. see hole there
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd22/tman0987/poo008.jpg
so then i start forcing my subframe sideways while hitting the start button, and i get a spark near exhaust side of bike, it also does start doing click,click,click,click, then it cranks engine for a second and stops. i tried again and i can get it to click but not turn again. I need to get that bolt out and replace it and see what happens.

also this wire is melted ( the rubber outside) near the bottom from heat. It is near the exhaust so maybe it is the cause of sparks
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd22/tman0987/poo009.jpg
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd22/tman0987/poo011.jpg

[thebrahamkid]

Check the wire that goes beneath where your shifter is at, left side (sitting on quad) safety neutral switch.. make sure your wire is hooked up good. not loose. maybe that will do it?

[QuadManiac]

Not if his lights, etc., don't work. If the starter won't crank when shorting across the solenoid lugs its either the battery, a bad high current cable or connection or a bad starter. Since your lights don't work also, it's probably not the starter unless you have multiple problems.

Remove, clean, and reconnect all the high current cables at the battery, solenoid, starter and frame and look at them all to make sure that the copper in the wire truly is connected to the lugs. Sometimes the copper can fatigue and crack inside the insulation and still seem to be connected.

Do you know how to use a volt/ohm meter? You need to determine what cable/connection has failed... although I believe it is your ground, due to the sparks across the exhuast joint.

[blaaze416]

In your pictures, the one with the melted wire? On my bike, that particular wire DOES NOT go through that little retaining ring your seems to be caught on, and yours either wore away and/or melted. On mine, the wire comes off the starter and goes immediately towards my left leg and then up to the battery connections. Never does it go down! Your looks like it is probably grounding out on the little retaining ring it is being forced fed through. I don't think that wire is supposed to go through there. On mine, my carb breather tubes run through that retaining ring to hold them in plae on the their way through the swinger. I bet your starters power is being diverted directly to the frame before it gets to the starter due to that melted/grounded wire. Then again, I could be WAY off. Hope this was helpfull.

[tman12345]

I do not know how to use a volt/ohm meter, is it hard to use? I could probably get one. I'll fix the broken bolt clean all of the connections real good and mess around with the melted wire. Is there some special thing i should use to clean the connections?

[QuadManiac]

Just to revisit - when you shorted across the lugs on the solenoid, you got sparks at the screwdriver but NO sound or action from the starter at all? If this is true, then either the cable leading to the starter is shorted to ground somewhere, the starter is frozen or the engine is.

HOWEVER, this doesn't explain your other problems (no lights, etc.). You may have multiple issues. I'd suggest getting the starter working first and then hunting down any others.

[blaaze416]

Just want to verify....when you used the jumper cables to ground your battery, did you unhook the normal battery ground and set it out of the way? I think that would be a good idea. That way you can isolate the problem.
But i do think your problem is your starter's power lead grounding out where it passes through that retaining ring where it melted!! I'd almost bet your quad on it!