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View Full Version : Deric's Predator 90 rebuild



dericsdad
07-08-2008, 10:26 PM
Deric wanted me to post some pictures of the new front suspension we are refabricating/installing on his quad. He was really excited tonight when we finally mocked everything up to see how it will look!!! He said "Dad if it works as good as it looks I will be really happy!

Can anyone guess where the parts originated from?

http://i36.tinypic.com/zv5u6c.jpg

dericsdad
07-08-2008, 10:27 PM
http://i33.tinypic.com/n1cx83.jpg

dericsdad
07-08-2008, 10:29 PM
http://i35.tinypic.com/21osufl.jpg

dericsdad
07-08-2008, 10:29 PM
http://i34.tinypic.com/301ncsy.jpg

BradLoomis
07-09-2008, 11:49 PM
Looks like the Can Am DS 90 frontend. They copied Rath's setup and did a good job of it. How much did it set you back? What is the weight difference? It does look AWSOME!

dericsdad
07-10-2008, 05:25 PM
Yes! it is the DS90X front end. I had to make brackets and modify the top shock mount tube on our frame to accept the a-arm brackets, and I cut off/lowered the tall shock mount brackets that were on the lower a-arms so the 13.25" shocks would fit and to also lower the front a little. We bought the a-arms, brackets, and steering stem from can am (traded some elka shocks and other parts for them) I'd say if you had to pay retail it would be around $500 or so for those parts. Got the Honda hubs/spindles for $60 off ebay. $150.00 for the antivibe riser from rox. And $50.00 for the used itp 4/144 rims. Oh yeah, and we got a sponsor deal with Elka for the shocks.

Thanks Brad, I hope we can get it all set up to work well. It seems to have a little more bump steer than I'd like, but we have raised the stem tie-rod bracket a little more, and are going to try some more camber to see if it helps.

Any good ideas for low cost but good and strong tie-rods/ends??? looking at 14.75" from rod end stud to rod end stud, and would like a 1 inch or shorter rod end height. Thought about using honda 450r ends, as I already have new rods, but $80.00 seems like a lot for rod ends. a buddy of ours had troubles bending 10mm tie-rods on his conversion like this. Maybe too much bump steer on his???

Thanks, Dan.

BradLoomis
07-11-2008, 12:54 AM
Originally posted by dericsdad


Thanks Brad, I hope we can get it all set up to work well. It seems to have a little more bump steer than I'd like, but we have raised the stem tie-rod bracket a little more, and are going to try some more camber to see if it helps.

Rule of thumb on bump steer. If when you raise the spindle from full droop and the front of the spindle moves in, the tie rod is to long. You will need to lower the stem mount or raise the spindle mount and then shorten the length of the tierod to make things square again before testing again to determine the proper location and lengths. If the spindle moves out, it is to short.

Any good ideas for low cost but good and strong tie-rods/ends???

McMaster Carr Rod Ends (http://www.mcmaster.com)

Part # 6072K13
Part # 6072K131

looking at 14.75" from rod end stud to rod end stud, and would like a 1 inch or shorter rod end height. Thought about using honda 450r ends, as I already have new rods, but $80.00 seems like a lot for rod ends. a buddy of ours had troubles bending 10mm tie-rods on his conversion like this. Maybe too much bump steer on his???

Thanks, Dan.

We have been using stock DRR and Banshee/Blaster rod ends with my carbon fiber tierods for 4 years and haveen't had any failures. Rath racing is using the stock rodends on the Outlaws with my tierods and Daryl usually switches the rodends out for 3/8"-24 rodends without any failures

dericsdad
07-11-2008, 07:25 AM
THANKS FOR THE TIPS. CHECKED THE BUMP STEER LAST NIGHT, AND IT WAS ZERO WITH EVERYTHING THEY WAY I CHANGED IT!!!
BUT WHEN I LOWERD THE BIKE TO THE GROUND WE FOUND ONLY 2 DEG. CASTER AND OVER 7 DEGREES NEG. CAMBER, SO WE WILL ADJUST IT ALL TONIGHT. ABOUT 8 INCHES OF WHEEL TRAVEL.

IT DOESN'T SEEM TO STEER VERY SHARP, AND I NOTICED THE TIE RODS ANGLE BACKWARDS TO ATTACH TO THE LONG ARMS ON THE 400EX SPINDLES. I WAS THINKING ABOUT DRILLING A NEW HOLE FOR THE ROD END IN THE SPINDLE THAT IS ABOUT AN INCH CLOSER TO THE BALL JOINTS, WHICH SHOULD HELP IT STEER TIGHTER I THINK? AND STRAIGHTEN THE TIE RODS.

HOW MUCH NEG CAMBER/CASTER DO YOU RECOMMEND ON THE MINIS? SAME AS THE BIG QUADS?

BradLoomis
07-11-2008, 11:55 AM
When you change the camber and caster, it will change the location of the tierod mount on the spindle... it won't be alot, but it will change. So always re-double check your settings when you adjust something. Watch the spindle arm mount length ratio to the steering stem mount ratio. As you change the length ratios, the steering will not respond correctly. As you turn the handlebars the inside tire has to turn into a tighter radius than the outside. I usually go for 3-5 degrees of caster and 0-2 degrees of negative camber.

dericsdad
07-13-2008, 10:45 PM
Thanks for the help Brad! We finally practiced tonight, and Deric has been all big grins and smiles since!!! Caster is at 6 deg. and camber is set at neg. 4 deg., and it is working awesome!!! Couldn't go to 0 deg. camber without fear of the lower ball joints binding at full compression, but it is handling very well like this.

I left the spindles alone, and set the toe in at 1/4 inch. it goes to about 1/8" to out at full compression, so it does have a little bump steer but not much. It steers and corners very well, he can cut corners nice, and power slide through corners too.

Deric was much faster through the rough sweeping corners than with his old front end, and was catching a lot more air! Definitly more confidence going into our next race!

He was catching almost 6 feet of air and was only about 1 1/2 bike leangths from clearing a long table top at the Amsoil sandbox arena tonight, i'll try to post a video of it.

Dan.

BradLoomis
07-14-2008, 12:29 AM
Sounds like you did fine! If the tires toe out under compression, your tierods are to short in aspect. You need to raise the stem mount location or lower the spindle mount to add about 3/8" to the tierod length to get to zero bump steer.

dericsdad
07-14-2008, 05:52 AM
The tires actually toe "out" under compression, so does that mean i need to lower the stem mount? Thanks, Dan.

dericsdad
07-14-2008, 08:59 PM
Here are some pictures of it all finished. hope these help get yours dialed in Mike! Thanks for everything! I'll bring my Protractor and the brackets I made, so hopefully we can get yours dialed in. Let me know if you want to go earlier on Friday, we can work on it then if you want. Dan.

http://i37.tinypic.com/am9xk1.jpg

dericsdad
07-14-2008, 09:01 PM
http://i36.tinypic.com/opu5v5.jpg

dericsdad
07-14-2008, 09:02 PM
http://i36.tinypic.com/2r40wig.jpg

dericsdad
07-14-2008, 09:03 PM
http://i35.tinypic.com/2m2hvsx.jpg

dericsdad
07-14-2008, 09:04 PM
http://i35.tinypic.com/qpiaso.jpg

dericsdad
07-14-2008, 09:37 PM
View My Video (http://tinypic.com/player.php?v=34y4e2u&s=4)

BradLoomis
07-15-2008, 12:08 AM
Originally posted by dericsdad
The tires actually toe "out" under compression, so does that mean i need to lower the stem mount? Thanks, Dan.

You need to raise the stem mount in order to lengthen the tierods. Use washers to space the rodend up to see how far you will need to move it. Remove the two washers you have on the tierod mounted to the spindle, as that only makes your tierod shorter and puts the rodend into a bind quicker.

dericsdad
07-15-2008, 01:17 PM
Okey, I guess I am thinking backwards then... I will put washers under the rod ends on the steering stem and recheck the bump steer. I can't take the washers out from between the outer rod ends and spindles unless I dial in less caster, otherwise at full droop turnig sharp the tie rod touches the bottom of the upper a-arm. It is working really good like it is, but I will try to make it better. Thanks, Dan.

qcitytile
07-16-2008, 10:26 PM
WOW!! thats got to one of the baddest looking mini preds I've seen. The front veiw is intimidating.

dericsdad
07-17-2008, 11:52 AM
Thanks! I hope Deric does well this weekend on it, we are going to a 2 day event in Crandon, Wi, and they do a triple crown for drag race, TT race, and MX. Dan.

BradLoomis
07-17-2008, 02:24 PM
Originally posted by dericsdad
Okey, I guess I am thinking backwards then... I will put washers under the rod ends on the steering stem and recheck the bump steer. I can't take the washers out from between the outer rod ends and spindles unless I dial in less caster, otherwise at full droop turnig sharp the tie rod touches the bottom of the upper a-arm. It is working really good like it is, but I will try to make it better. Thanks, Dan.

Think of it this way...
If you pull in towards the frame on the spindle tierod mount, the tire will tow out. This is why the tie rod is to short is because the stem mount starts to go out of ratio vs the a-arm travel. by raising the stem mount, you will be able to install a longer tierod, which will now hold a closer aspect travel ratio compared to the a-arm. Spindle arm tierod mount length also comes into play vs the stem plate mount length, as well as spindle forward/backward postion to the steering stem mount.

I hope this helps you some.

The quad looks great! You built and good machine... and the cool thing is, you did it and didn't buy it.

dericsdad
07-17-2008, 07:38 PM
Thanks a LOT brad, that helps me understand a little better how it all works and why!

I have always liked how the Predator 90's look compared to the other Mini's... and Deric is so attached to it he doesn't want a different quad.

I have to do it all myself, because I can't afford to buy a new one or to pay someone else to do it!

Must be something wrong with me, all of the hours I have spent in the garage working on this thing!!! I just love making these things fast myself, and really appreciate all of the help everyone along the way has given me!!!

Hopefully we do good this weekend!

Dan.

qcitytile
07-17-2008, 07:47 PM
Good luck this weekend

dericsdad
07-23-2008, 09:54 PM
We had a pretty Good weekend! Not so good on Saturday, Deric didn't tell me he couldn't hold the throttle more than 2/3's open or the engine would die! Not very helpful for the Drag race and TT events! We knew he had a little bog on the starts at our last race, but I thought it was clutching. Turned out it was loading up/flooding out because the "thimble" piece in the carb that the slide needle goes down into was worn out, and way too big now! A friend of ours we race led me to check it, and even had a new one.

Despite only 2/3 throttle Deric managed a 4th in the Drags and a 5th in the TT race (out of nine). His first time ever trying them. I wish we would have gotton the carb fixed!

Sunday was MX day, and we had a lot more fun, especially with it running good! had to soften the compression on the front shocks from 10 to 4 clicks in after practice, made it perfect he said.

Deric got a bad start in the first moto, got boxed in and bounced off 2 riders... started 4th and finished 3rd behind a cobra and Apex.

2nd moto was awesome! Deric got the Holeshot and led for half of the first lap before getting passed by his friend CJ on his Apex that we always race with. Hung with him good, and finished 2nd, and 2nd overall for the day. (out of nine)

Pretty proud of him as hard as he rode! He beat the kid on the Cobra 70 that is leading that series points.

Gotta say heal fast and HOPE TO SEE YOU SOON to our friend Sean who had a tie-rod break on a hard landing racing his 90cc mod. He is a very good rider a better friend! Sean was the first to run and high five CJ, Deric and Dawson for taking home the 1-2-3 sweep in the Production 90 class.

dericsdad
07-23-2008, 09:55 PM
Here is the clearest picture of Deric. We didn't get many Cause Mom still gets too nervous to watch.

http://i38.tinypic.com/156wm77.jpg

dericsdad
07-24-2008, 06:51 AM
here is a video of the last moto. My oldest boy filmed it from on top of the hill.

dericsdad
07-24-2008, 06:53 AM
if you click on "original video" in bold red below the video/picture, it will be easier to see, and you can enlarge it to full screen also.


<embed width="440" height="420" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" src="http://v4.tinypic.com/player.swf?file=9jgf9s&s=4"><br><font size="1"><a href="http://tinypic.com/player.php?v=9jgf9s&s=4">Original Video</a> - More videos at <a href="http://tinypic.com">TinyPic</a></font>

markvette
07-24-2008, 07:20 AM
Dan
did the oven work on the bearing ??


Mark

dericsdad
07-24-2008, 01:02 PM
Mark,

Yes, the oven trick worked great! I barely had to tug on it with a pick! Thanks for the tip!

I knew you would know how to do it.

Thanks, Dan.

markvette
07-24-2008, 01:42 PM
great, dan, the quad looks really good. you have done a heck of a job on it. i got the 300ex done so i will start back on the mini project now. i got to go get a right hand case i gave a friend about a year ago to have me a spacer plate made for the 2 case halves so i can put a 58mm cylinder on it. if you need anything else give me a holler.

Mark

dericsdad
07-24-2008, 09:09 PM
Here is a picture we bought from a photographer there called "maxim graphics". Deric is jumping the 2nd tabletop, but you can't see how high he really is.

http://i34.tinypic.com/b6euyh.jpg

Nor-Cal Nick
08-03-2008, 03:01 PM
That is a very nice set up. :)

dericsdad
08-08-2008, 08:23 PM
http://i37.tinypic.com/hwk6jb.jpg

dericsdad
08-08-2008, 08:34 PM
Deric won every moto he raced, in both 8 years and up cvt mod, and mini open mod classes!


http://i38.tinypic.com/2gtnuhs.jpg