My first realization that drr's need more power

[humboldt hills]

Okay all,
Cheyenne Shadron handed everyone their respective butts at Mountain ridge GNCC in PA. SHe won the overall from the 3rd row on a stock Apex. I say stock because they tore the bike down and she was legal. Now we have been racing DRrs for 2 years and had great success. BUt now, for the first time I am looking at the apexs for '09(not really, lets just say it crossed my mind for the first time). We run the stock class so we can't change much. Here are just a few things I would like to see DRR change and make stock parts;
Hi Rev CDI
Keihin carb
no oil injection
more power stock porting...etc

I love the DRR family and will stay, but this blatant beating really opens your eyes.

I must also say that there are no apex's in the class we run yet, but just an observation. We have been winning the nationals on DRRs, and we are forever in debt to the drr family for their help in acheiving these wins.

Anybody think its possible for DRR to make some of these changes to stay competetive in the stock classes?

[dblacks]

if it is a stock class can internal motor mods be done?

[hotquads1]

props to Cheyenne, she is obviously a great driver. dblacks is on the right track , let us know your stock class rules and we might have some suggestions. I know Gary and the Fla boys have some stock appearing 90cc classes in their area , and I think they fair very well against the Apex's.
The 08' DRR 90 comes with a hi-rev cdi curve, just pull the rev limiter strap. it also comes with a pwk flat slide 24mm carb, it very well could be faster than your 07'. The advantage apex does have in stock form , is more compression, but that can be easily matched .

[dblacks]

if internal motormods are allowed it can be very easy to get more HP out of it

[jread14]

We are running into the same thing down south. The entire 90 class is pretty much all Apex's. In pure stock form with just clutch mods done the DRR does not have a chance on the holeshot. The sad thing is the Apex 70 is dang near as fast as the 90. I am a DRR guy and have a ton of money invested in these guys, but they are going to have to make some changes to be competitive with Apex in the 70 and 90 class. If not, then the only people that will end up riding them will be the ones that can throw a MK on it.

[etondaddy]

You know this hole thread is bullsh*t.... I'm sorry. The bottom line is Cheyenne Shadron must be one h*ll of a rider and the mechanic has the machine running at it's best.

So congratulations Cheyenne and your mechanic....great job. That tare down was the best compliment you never got !!!!!!

Now quit whining boys ..... and go back to the shop and see what you can do better.

Remember....95% rider and 5% machine.........


Mike Kozura

[jread14]

Mike,

Not trying to ruffle any feathers, but obviously you mis understood what I was trying to get at, and didnt happen to see what my signature says.... My son rides DRR 50's in the 50 and 70 class... I will agree with you 100% on the rider is 95% of it as well. My son is a testimant to that, considering he is 5th in points out of about 11 kids, and he is riding a 50 against apex 70's and piped trx 90's. I am just telling you how I am seeing... I am watching the Apex's first to the corner in the STOCK 90 class at every race. In fact one of the boys on a DRR 90 typically finishes 4th or 5th but is about 8th or 9th on the holeshot. A friend of mine has 4 Apex's (which I work on) and IMHO are faster than any stock DRR 90 I have worked on. Get me a tissue because my crying and whinning for the day!!! :D :)

[etondaddy]

Originally posted by jread14
Mike,

Not trying to ruffle any feathers, but obviously you mis understood what I was trying to get at, and didnt happen to see what my signature says.... My son rides DRR 50's in the 50 and 70 class... I will agree with you 100% on the rider is 95% of it as well. My son is a testimant to that, considering he is 5th in points out of about 11 kids, and he is riding a 50 against apex 70's and piped trx 90's. I am just telling you how I am seeing... I am watching the Apex's first to the corner in the STOCK 90 class at every race. In fact one of the boys on a DRR 90 typically finishes 4th or 5th but is about 8th or 9th on the holeshot. A friend of mine has 4 Apex's (which I work on) and IMHO are faster than any stock DRR 90 I have worked on. Get me a tissue because my crying and whinning for the day!!! :D :)
I didn't mean to make anyone mad either and it's nothing personal........... but Kyle's been racing for six years now and for the first four we were cheating according to the other competitors. He used to get the hole shot on a 70cc gating with the 90cc.......... it's all in the reaction time just like drag racing. Now over the last couple of years people say hey Kyle can ride. That's why sh*t like this kinda pisses me off :devil: :devil:

Mike Kozura

[drr5]

`you say stock ? what did they check ? bore and stroke, port polish rechambered head, clutch mods,ie. variator face roller weights, clutch springs tourque driver, etc etc, but as for the rider job well done, but i believe if its stock it only apears as such, we have here in florida some of the fastest stock appearing bikes weve seen drr and apex alike, most of these bikes where ever they came from brand new need tweaking to obtain the best performance possible , although drr and apex have made great strides in the performance of these quads they still are not perfect out of the box and lightning fast , just my 2 cent

[Logan #34's Dad]

I'm with Mike, I've been doing this for a long time now and I'm a firm believer in the rider. Logan has beaten riders on much faster quads and has gotten beaten by slower quads and better riders. I know it is very hard to admit for us that another rider is better than our kids but you've gotta do it. I have a whole box of "go fast parts" that I thought would help me catch the other rider.
I'm sure you can do some internal engine mods to make that DRR run stronger. See my "sponsors" list after my signature for THE "Porting"ANSWER. I would say the stock suspension is better on the Apex though and that does make a big difference.

[neveready]

Originally posted by etondaddy
You know this hole thread is bullsh*t.... I'm sorry. The bottom line is Cheyenne Shadron must be one h*ll of a rider and the mechanic has the machine running at it's best.

So congratulations Cheyenne and your mechanic....great job. That tare down was the best compliment you never got !!!!!!

Now quit whining boys ..... and go back to the shop and see what you can do better.

Remember....95% rider and 5% machine.........


Mike Kozura


The biggest variation stock for stock is in the cylinder. The FRC cylinder on the apex has much better porting "out of the box" than the DRR. So in full stock form yes the apex is faster, but with that said they still BOTH need to be ported, clutched, jetted,etc. to obtain maximum performance. I know some folks that were at this teardown and claim it to be a well built, ported motor, so I don't think we are comparing apples to apples here by claiming that DRR needs to make a faster bike!!! I have a motor here on our 90 DRR that is "stock" (stock cylinder,head,piston,crank,intake) but ported and setup right and VERY fast

So....... my hats off as well to the builder and the rider of this bike for a job well done.

[jread14]

Originally posted by neveready
The biggest variation stock for stock is in the cylinder. The FRC cylinder on the apex has much better porting "out of the box" than the DRR. So in full stock form yes the apex is faster.

That is all I was trying to point out. We have a stock 90 and a mod 90 class down here in Texas and the only thing you can do to your bike is carb and any clutch work known to man in the stock class. This is the class where I am seeing the difference.

Oh, and Mike, you didnt upset me but I wanted you to understand what I was trying to get at.

Hats off to the racer as well.. I dont care what kind of bike youre on. That my friends is some serious talent when you start on the 3rd row and wipe out the competition. Great Job!!!!

[humboldt hills]

Sorry to stir up so much anger!
I am not a motor builder. The buzz was that Lazuras Sommers built this motor. He is GT Thunder. So figure what you will out of that.
We have 3 GNCC riders that are on completely stock drrs. We freshen up the clutch everynoe and then. BUt there is no engine mods allowed.
My feeling is, they tore the motor down and she was found to be legal, so I just assume it was legal. Maybe I am just ignorant on how it all works.
And let me say this" she is one heck of a rider...no doubt" and that should have been said in my first post. This was a tough course and just finishing was tuff enough.
All I am trying to say is, There are a few things DRR could do to compete in stock form. I am not into the stock appearing. I am not teaching my kids cheating is Okay as long as you don't get caught.
And I believe DRR will make it happen if we just let them know what needs done. Look how far they have come already. We just need a few changes for '09!

[kenjolly]

It seems their is a disturbance in the force.

Maybe Gary as he has done for all of us in the past can get some ideas for changes and make it happen, cause thats what he does.

PS you will be much happier when you stop running stock classes we are, they s*** someone is allways cheating.

with just a few cool parts from Gary you too can have what we like to call AN APEX KILLER.

[FISH ON!]

Give those Cobra shifter super minis a head start and still whip their behinds !!! That's what I find very impressive. You go girl, awsome riding no doubt!

For as long as there's been racing, there is always the mechanic who's a step ahead of the rest................ It took me months and several conversations to decide between the DRR and APEX. Either one was going to be a big step up from the Can-Am 90X! The deciding factor on the DRR was the online support network. Fellow DRR owners and suppliers beat APEX hands down in technical support and I needed that being new to the mini-quad racing scene.

Here's a thought.....maybe we can get the DRR folks to give her a DRX 90 off the show room floor next race and see how it goes !!

:blah:

Todd Jones

[camsdad]

guys you are missing the fact that this was a limited class not a stock class....porting and internal mods are a so called gray area and not looked for very hard....but to be fair just a pipe and clutch change on an apex will make a difference.....

[FISH ON!]

From the GNCC rule book..............

quote " 9. 90 Limited: (71-90cc 2-strk; 75-125cc 4-strk) production models. The following may be changed: tires (but no tire balls), wheels (cannot change stock width), pipe, sprockets, gearing, clutch, twist throttle, handlebars, grips, handle bar pads, front bumper, rear grab bar, air filter and jetting. Fenders may be trimmed. No other modifications allowed INCLUDING carburetors, oil injection, air box and lid, gas tank, wheelbase, width, rear axle, A-arm, shocks and suspension. Manual clutch models are not eligible and cannot be converted to auto clutch. "


The best mechanics are usually working hard to find the little advantage in those "grey" areas and that has a lot to do with how well they know what the guy doing the tear down is looking for (or not looking for.) The rule should have just stopped at "No other modifications allowed." That's plenty clear enough to me.

I think the real point is she's a hell of a rider who wipped a bunch of boys butts. I bet she has a ride on a factory sponsored Raptor 250 just around the corner.

[humboldt hills]

No doubt. No matter how modded or not modded that bike was, she rode the guts out of it...beat $10,000 cobras/hondas and will be a force to reckon with for years to come. And I should also mention they seem like really nice people.