Legal or not???

[CAIN730]

We have found a way to make our trx90s considerably faster but it might be a questionable mod for the 90 auto class at the nats. I just thought I would run it by you guys before we started selling them. What we can do is put a manual clutch on the bike but run the cable to the back brake lever insted of a clutch lever on the bars. I know this sounds off the wall but trust me, it makes the bikes alot faster! What do you guys think? would that still be considered a 90 auto?

Scott Cain
SCR

[camsdad]

if the brake lever is used to disengage a clutch the it is no longer a brake lever its now a clutch lever..

[azextreme]

SCR do you have a web site? Also what is you RWHP on your top 125 builds?

[mxkids]

This was brought up last year! There is no difference between holding the shifter up to a neutral position and dropping in to gear vs holding the brake down to engage a clutch. As the rule stated at the first of the year, No Manual Clutches allowed. You can take manual clutches in alot of ways. But, when I spoke with Doug about it, he said the rule of intent was NO MANUAL HAND CLUTCHES ALLOWED. But, if you want to get nitpicky, for a auto class you should be able to put it in gear with out it staling out at an idle and not move or go dead. This would be a true auto clutch. Just my opinion.

I talked with Doug Morris and the higher powers when all of this came up before, it is legal as LONG as it is not a HAND clutch mounted on the handlebars.

But, to find out I would email Sam Gammon at Victory Sports and ask him. Make sure you get a email and print it our for future refernce. (Just cover your butt)

Brandon Tittle
Tittle Brothers Racing

[CAIN730]

AZextreme RWHP is a really complicated subject. I can make as much as you want but reliability becomes a factor. We haven't been trying to find more power lately, just trying to make them bulletproof. I don't like to quote numbers because there are to many loose dynos out there or just operators that exagerate. If you have been to the ATVA races this year then you know that our motors are making plenty :D

[CAIN730]

My phone is already lighting up. Don't get to excited just yet. I am still VERY skeptical about the legality of this. We aren't going to do any of these like this just yet.

[miniquad75]

rule # 10 no manual clutches allowed ...

[bowtiedmax]

GOTTA BE KIDDING ME !!!!

[GILCO]

Man the technology these days just amazes me. Scott what will you come up with next. ( You are the Man )

[CAIN730]

Yes, i'm kidding, but you guys should all take a close look at the cobras this weekend and decide for yourself if that is legal. I just wanted to see what would be said if the shoe was on the other foot :D You guys have fun this weekend :D

[mxkids]

It was an interesting weakend at PA. Scott give me a call when u get time. Brandon Tittle.

[Ryko racing]

In my opinion (just an opinion) the Production class auto clutch rule was put in place to level the field a few years back when a lot of CVT quads were having a battle with the Cobras and Hondas. Now that they have a separate CVT class the production class shpuld be a production class.( if a quad comes with a hand clutch or a foot operated clutch that is how it should be run then there would be no question as to what is legal.

[Steven623]

Well, what happened with everyone checking out the Cobra's this weekend Scott. We weren't there but I was wondering why I haven't seen any responses about the clutches? Was anyone protested? If so what was the outcome with the Honda's or Cobra's?
Thanks!

[mxkids]

Everybody got there panteys in a wadd . The cobra that was running the foot clutch took it off after friday practice. On Sat the cobra riders dad protested one of the hondas. Smitty decided to check all hondas. If they couldnt put there bike in gear and let off of the shifter without it moving or going dead they were going to be disqualified. Well guess what, it was a lot of hondas who were going to be deemed illegal. I somehow got pulled in the middle of it . Sonia my wife printed off an email that we had saved regarding the clutch issue and gave it to Smitty. The clutch issue was then deemed a [gray] area that had never been clariafied because it has never been protested in the past. So in the end the cobra got his foot clutch back for the rest of the season and the hondas still get to race with their centrifical clutch removed. I know there will be a rule change for this next season. Personaly i think Scotts 125 honda is a good match for a 80cc cobra. the hand or foot clutches dont do any good unless you know how to use them . if the kid does know how to clutch a bike they will probably be up front regardless if it has a auto clutch or not . Scott said the honda is more reliable with a manual hand clutch kit and I know the cobra is. I think they need to open the class up. On dirt bikes a kid gets a manual clutch at 8 years old when they get off of 50s. Why would anybody not want to run a manual clutch? Are they scared or to lazy to teach there kid how to use it? Just my opinion they got to learn sooner or later.

If we would ALL try to work togeather on this issue maybe we can all have the manual clutch for next year.

Hey Scott, they tell you I was the devil because I have Cobras? No, I am in it for the kids no matter WHAT they ride. I could have kept my mouth shut and not pulled out anything, but would that have been right? No, you do what is right for the kids! Would you have done it if the shoe was on the other foot?

Still waiting on that phone call. LOL


Brandon

[COLTBNME]

28. In what classes can I race my Cobra?

You can race a 90cc Cobra in the Super Mini and 90cc Modified classes only. You can race a 70cc Cobra in the 70cc Modified and 70cc Single Speed Automatic class. And you can race a 50cc Cobra in the 50cc Senior (6-8) class. These are the only classes Cobras are eligible to race.



Can someone tell me what this means? Why are 80 to 90cc Cobras in the 90 production classes?

You can find this question and answer at atvmotocross.com under frequently asked questions.

[etondaddy]

Hey Brandon thanks for helping to get that deal straitened out....... Kyle just started and really doesn't have a clue how to ride it yet...but he'll get it.... he's getting a little better every ride.


Saturday night they were calling me cheat-tondaddy and I didn't have a clue what was going on......... all I know is I had an 11 year old looking at me for answers........ lol


I was starting to think to myself did I just build a 10g cheater quad....... boy I hope not..... I said I'm not going to worry about it tonight but when a sober up in the morning I'm going to be pissed off........lol


It's all cool now brother.


Check out the new page I started for Kyle I put your link on the links page.
http://kylekozura.com/

Mike Kozura (cheat-tondaddy)

[mxkids]

Originally posted by COLTBNME
28. In what classes can I race my Cobra?

You can race a 90cc Cobra in the Super Mini and 90cc Modified classes only. You can race a 70cc Cobra in the 70cc Modified and 70cc Single Speed Automatic class. And you can race a 50cc Cobra in the 50cc Senior (6-8) class. These are the only classes Cobras are eligible to race.



Can someone tell me what this means? Why are 80 to 90cc Cobras in the 90 production classes?

You can find this question and answer at atvmotocross.com under frequently asked questions.

Cobras are allowed to run in the production classes. We went thru all of this with Sam Gammon before the first race of the season. These questions were wrote when the rules first came out and it said no auto clutches allowed. The rules were than rewrote like they were last year which allows the auto clutch and no manual clutches.

[CAIN730]

The rules say must have automatic clutch. The dd honda clutch automatically engages every time you shift. ( Just like a bone stock honda) It doesn't say anywhere in the rules (must have centripetal clutch.) Furthermore you cant manually slip this clutch to keep the rpms up or it will shift. I agree that the rules will change next year but the dd hondas will still be running. We don't need a manual clutch because that is just another $500 to spend on the motor and it is not any more reliable than direct drive.




break shift break shift break shift break shift break shift...............:rolleyes:

[mxkids]

Scott i beg to differ with you. I have worked on many of these motors [ i have 2 of them now!] . What do you call clutch disks , clutch springs , and an internal mechanism that sole purpose is to break the power of the drivetrain when ingaged . It does not do this automaticaly it has to be done by the foot . That is the reason it has a centrifical clutch. If you can put in gear and it moves or stalls out IT IS A MANUAL CLUTCH . Brandon Tittle

[CAIN730]

I'm done with this post. I'm not here to debate it, I just want to make sure I'm the one here explaining how my stuff works and what is or is not more reliable on my engines. For my official explanation please see my previous post. Any further debating on my part will be with the atva congress.

[mxkids]

Hummm, must of struck a nerve. Sorry Scott, didn't mean anything by it. Remember I am the one who went to BAT for the hondas. Bet nobody ever thought that would happen. (Cobra dealer trying to make it better for everybody, no matter what they ride)

Brandon

[GILCO]

Brandon Tittle is our hero without him the Hondas would be history thanks so much Brandon.

[ROBBSRACING]

Why is it that this seems so familiar to me ?

Oh thats rite its been going on EVERY year since I built the first one of them !

Back in 2005 I went over the EXACT build with Doug Morris to ensure that it would be legal. He agreed that it was within the rules and there intent.

Why is it that this gets debated every season ?

Hi Brandon.

[Ryko racing]

Cant we just let the kids race. i have yet to hear any of the kids in the pits talking about types of clutches. all they want to do is race and have fun.... Scott Korody #925

[mxkids]

Originally posted by ROBBSRACING
Why is it that this seems so familiar to me ?

Oh thats rite its been going on EVERY year since I built the first one of them !

Back in 2005 I went over the EXACT build with Doug Morris to ensure that it would be legal. He agreed that it was within the rules and there intent.

Why is it that this gets debated every season ?

Hi Brandon.

Hey Robb,

I agree, they should be deemed legal. The problem is since 05 there has been 3 rule changes reagarding this. In the ATVA there has never been a writing protest on this until now. I guess it could be legal or illegal depending on which side of the fence you are standing on. I would have to go with Scott on this one, I wish they would do like the WPSA did last year, have a production 90 class and a 4 stroke class. Nobody wants to build the high dollar bikes for 2 motos on a weekend, it would be much better for the kids. More track time, make the parents feel like they are getting their moneys worth.

Brandon

[LT80]

Originally posted by Ryko racing
Cant we just let the kids race. i have yet to hear any of the kids in the pits talking about types of clutches. all they want to do is race and have fun.... Scott Korody #925

Race and have fun..What an idea!! Who would have thought.

I'm of the opinion that all this is just crazy. I say go back to limited rules.
If it didn't come that way from Honda, it isn't legal.

If you want a big dollar mini, go build a mod.
Why anyone would even think of spending the kind of money you guys are talking on a glorified yard machine simply amazes me.
Always has.

In 96 we could take a $1800. machine and have it fast and on the track for under 3k easy.
Then came pipes, carbs, then the worst thing ever, $1000 mini shocks.
It's a game of ~my dad spends more than your dad~..:(

[Ryko racing]

As I have already stated, Production should be how it came from the factory and must use oem engine and frame. The belt drives have a class to themselves so the automatic issue has been corrected in the last 2 years.

[COLTBNME]

Originally posted by LT80
Race and have fun..What an idea!! Who would have thought.

I'm of the opinion that all this is just crazy. I say go back to limited rules.
If it didn't come that way from Honda, it isn't legal.

If you want a big dollar mini, go build a mod.
Why anyone would even think of spending the kind of money you guys are talking on a glorified yard machine simply amazes me.
Always has.

In 96 we could take a $1800. machine and have it fast and on the track for under 3k easy.
Then came pipes, carbs, then the worst thing ever, $1000 mini shocks.
It's a game of ~my dad spends more than your dad~..:(


First of all, this is not a game. And secondly a Quad is not a glorified yard machine. Lastly what a parent in my case a MOM, decides to purchase for their child is a big decision when your spending this kind of money. Not only on the Quad but the money spent to race the National series. We all want to race and have fun, the rules are suppose to protect the integrity of the class. I personally do not have a problem with the Cobras, even though my son races a Honda. I can also assure you that it is not a game of my husband spending more money than the competitors Dad.

Donna Kellum
Proud Mom of Colton Kellum#484

[tireman43]

Well said Donna.

This is a Sport just like all others and people are always going to try and find that edge over the competition. Watch Nascar or other motorsports and you will hear all the same stuff. This is why the cost has increased as well. Everyone wants their kid to go faster and get better and be safer. That costs $$$$$. I'm all about my kids having FUN and if it costs me a little more because they want it to go faster or ride better, then I(as most others) do my best to make that happen.

The rules are in place to protect the integrity and should always be reviewed when new things come to the table. Hopefully the rules will reflect these changes by next season.

Kevin

[Nichols Atvs]

Heres some food for thought from my 7 year old (Quote) (Dad im sick and tired of you allways having to fix this machine! Just buy me a new one and dont do anything to it and Ill have more fun racing with my friends. ) Now listen to us all! I sure feel Stupid He didnt ask me to put the parts on i did this myself . So i have to agree with everyone we need rules but it is getting a bit crazy . But as long as the KIDS are having Fun, and if they are not Then we are all missing the point . Just my kids 2 cents on FUN.

[Ryko racing]

LETS NOT FORGET THAT ALONG WITH THE SO CALLED HI DOLLAR SHOCKS COMES BETTER CONTROL AND HOPEFULLY THE SAFETY FACTOR IMPROVES AS WELL. I TOTALLY AGREE THAT THESE ARE NOT LAWN MACHINES AND MY FAMILIES CHECKBOOK WILL SUPPORT THAT FACT, BUT AS A PERSON WHO HAS RACED FOR 35 YRS, I CAN ATTEST THAT SPEED IS VERY EXPENSIVE BOTH DOLLAR WISE AND TIME WISE. AS EVERYONE I KNOW THINKS THAT I AM TOTALLY INSANE. SO LETS ALL GO HAVE FUN AND SPEND TIME WITH OUR KIDS.

TAKE YOUR KIDS RACING AND YOU WONT HAVE TO LOOK FOR THEM BEACAUSE THEY WILL BE WITH YOU. SEE EVERYONE AT RED BUD. GOOD LUCK TO ALL.

SCOTT KORODY / RYAN KORODY 925


BY THE WAY IT IS ERIK HAVERTS BIRTHDAY ON SATURDAY.

[LT80]

I figured that would get your panties in a wad. LMAO!!

Funny stuff. Like I haven't done all that. I just threw reciepts away from 96. I spent tons of money. When is the last time any of you bought 55 gallons of race fuel at 1 time for a mini? We raced 3 races a weekend. Now that's fun.
In 96 we hit 48 races.

IMO, once you are able to look back, you will have a slightly different perspective. :)

[etondaddy]

Originally posted by LT80
I figured that would get your panties in a wad. LMAO!!
Jack Moore the pantie twister.......lol

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g278/etondaddy/atv-misc-0840.jpg


Mike Kozura

[atvracinextra]

Originally posted by LT80
Race and have fun..What an idea!! Who would have thought.

I'm of the opinion that all this is just crazy. I say go back to limited rules.
If it didn't come that way from Honda, it isn't legal.

If you want a big dollar mini, go build a mod.
Why anyone would even think of spending the kind of money you guys are talking on a glorified yard machine simply amazes me.
Always has.

In 96 we could take a $1800. machine and have it fast and on the track for under 3k easy.
Then came pipes, carbs, then the worst thing ever, $1000 mini shocks.
It's a game of ~my dad spends more than your dad~..:(

Jack,
Hey I vote go back to the 90 Super Stock days were the LT80's were unbeatable. J/k :p

[etondaddy]

I'm ready....

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g278/etondaddy/100_1075.jpg

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g278/etondaddy/100_1079.jpg

Mike Kozura