methanol

[skinrider440]

i have a 440 kit with 11 to 1 comp. my friend works for an oilfield comany and can get me some methanol what is the ratio i should run. i was thinking of 3/4 pump and 1/4 methanol with a dab of two stroke oil (cause methanol is a very very dry fuel.

[ChadEXer]

I wouldnt do it!! First off I may be wrong but methanol and alcohol is the same thing I think??? You need at least a 12.5:1 compression to run alcohol, and Im not sure about it but ive never heard of anyone mixing gas and methanol or putting iol in the gas for that matter, not a 4 stroke anyway!!!

[skinrider440]

so you think i should keep running 50/50 race fuel/pump gas?

i was only going to do the methanol cause i can get it for free.

[ChadEXer]

Yes thats what I would suggest or even go to full race gas!!!

[AndrewRRR]

You'd need to go to full methanol (alcohol) or keep it on gas. Alky has less energy per part than gas, which is why machines burn about 2.5 times as much alcohol as gas. Besides, with your compression there isn't any point going to alcohol. I'd stay with race gas/pump gas mix.

[motochris]

Dont even mess with Methanol.... This is only good for 12.5 and up comp... You will have to jet your carb way big to make it work with out burning up the motor, and were not talking about 1 or 2 jet sizes.... You will be better off not running it unless you want to give some of theses guys some business with new piston and ring parts..........

[AndrewRRR]

Usually you will need a different carburetor for Meth that is optimized for alcohol, or at least get a power jet added to your carb if it doesn't have one. You'll also need a fuel pump, as gravity feed will not deliver the fuel fast enough. Also if your bike isn't ported and running a ton of compression you won't fully benefit from the meth. Jetting with Meth can be a PITA since alcohol likes to clean the plugs. So all in all, i'd say stick with gas! ;)

[ChadEXer]

Well you will definatley have to go with a carb set up for alky to be able to run it,,,you will need a larger carb with a power jet! You will only need a fuel pump if you will be running WOT for over like 10 sec,,,,which in my case with drag racing I have plenty of time to make it down the strip before the carb gets too low on alky,,,,they can modify carbs today where you dont even really need a fuel pump at all, bigger bowls and longer alky lines!!! I have a 12.5:1 piston in mine and its ported to the max,,,so especially for me drag racing, a 42mm Lectron with powerjet and modified float running Meth is what is going on mine now!!! It is a little harder to jet and maintenance is more of a hassle with Meth, but the HP increase is pretty awesome!!!

[AndrewRRR]

Good Lord, Chad! I'd love to see that thing run!

[skinrider440]

me too

[ChadEXer]

I would too,,lol!! Im should have the motor back this week and my new swingarm should be in this week or early next,,,Im trying to get some bills paid off and saving up funds to go ahead and get the Methanol carb ordered,,,,That will give me enough time to get the gas carb dialed in before I switch over to Meth!!

[HoNdAdude48]

dude i run strait 102 octain race gas, i wouldnt even mess with methanol. ive never put below 93 octain in mine and it runs fine. just run race gas or premium unladed

[AndrewRRR]

I don't know about Chad's bike, but with my R I have to run 110 octane or higher unless I want a piston that looks like swiss cheese :D If I throw the 2cc smaller dome in my coolhead I HAVE to run meth.

By swithing to Meth (at least in a 2 stroke, probably the same for 4 strokes) you can squeeze and additional 20% more HP out of your bike. Hmmm, 90hp or so in my R sounds about right. lol.
I think I am going to wait until I get a backup bike (that isn't a 600cc drag bike :p ) before I switch to Meth.

[ChadEXer]

Well when I run gas Tom says I must run at least C-14 or C-14+ which is like 115 or 116 octane!! The stuff is pretty expensive too!!!

[AndrewRRR]

You are lucky you have a 4 stroke. I ran C-14 for a while in my R because its what we run in the race car, so we buy it by the drum. I noticed my R sounded lean at the dunes so I brought it in. Long story short, after tearing it apart, we finally realized premix oil won't mix with C-14! I called one of our racecar builders and he called VP and found out the specific gravity of C-14 is too low to mix with oil, it separates just like water.
Now I run Unocal 110 competition. It's better this way anyhow. VP decided their poo doesn't stink and jacked the 55 gal. drum price up to $380. They used to charge about $220, which is what i get the 110 for now. We will probably switch to the 110 in the race car if the gas will handle the compression (the race car is about 15:1!). The pistons look like Mt. Fuji.

[Chef]

What are you getting for PSI Andrew? I'm glad you posted that about the C-14, because I was about to buy some for my banshee :eek:

I had a 6mm stroker and a 14:1 90mm JE in my EX for quite a while, on meth. That thing ran like no other. FCR41 Alky Carb, converted by FTZ. I had it at Winchester Bay the weekend after Sand Fest, and there were still some left overs there from Sand Fest. There wasnt another 4 stroke to stay in the roost off of my rear tires. There was a sparks 465 there, he had about 6 quadlengths to make up if he wanted to be faster than I was. TC 480, He was the closest bike I raced, and he was about 2 quad lengths back. (All the bikes I raced were on alcohol, so it was a fair race) We were all about the same weight, the only difference was tires and swingarms. They both had 22 inch 10 paddle tires and 4 or 6 over swingarms. I had 9 Paddle Extreme haulers and a +2 swingarm, which may have made a difference. I really would have liked to know the torque numbers on that set up...I know that it made quite a bit more than 60hp with the alcohol, and thats quite a big step from the stock 27-28.

[99_400EX]

hey i have a chart for homade race gas and stuff there is a formula for Methanol ane Ethanol it says 10% Meth with prem pump gas and 10% Ethanol with prem pump gas

Meth + 92 pump gas = 94.3 Octane
Eth + 92 pump gas = 94.7 Octane

[ChadEXer]

Alky, Tom doesnt make a 480??? He said he has never built one before. he makes a 465, 490, and a 505 but he wont make anything else unless someone just wants that particular setup and he said its not very common for someone to want something like that,,,he said he has made a LOT of 465's a few 490's including Cody Jordans award winning drag bike and a few 505's but never a 480???

[AndrewRRR]

I haven't done a compression test yet. I can't do it right now as the motor isn't in the quad, but according to arlan if I put the smaller dome in (2cc smaller) I have to run alcohol. The bike is very hard to kick over (like CR500 or LT500 hard). I short kicked it and it sprained my ankle and couldnt walk for a couple days once. I have to wear my riding boots to kick it over.
Yeah, dont run C-14 in a 2-stroke!
Pump gas does put some ethanol in with the gas to clean out fuel systems. They used to just do it in the winter, now they put it in year-round.
One of the local shops, Ripps PowerSports puts in a small (i think up to 20%) amount of nitromethane in with their alky in their triple cyl drag banshee!

[Chef]

Originally posted by ChadEXer
Alky, Tom doesnt make a 480??? He said he has never built one before. he makes a 465, 490, and a 505 but he wont make anything else unless someone just wants that particular setup and he said its not very common for someone to want something like that,,,he said he has made a LOT of 465's a few 490's including Cody Jordans award winning drag bike and a few 505's but never a 480???

Well, maybe it was a 490, or 465, the dude wasnt too bright, but he could ride the dang thing!:blah